56469 réponses à ce sujet

[Tyranniac]

Lizardviking wrote...


Do NOT get the dialog where Liara explains that she was the one who gave you to Cerberus DURING THE ILLIUM CAMEO.

Once you start LOTSB. Shepard will ask who Feron is (because he never found out about Redemption and what Liara did), Liara will then explain it to Shepard. Pick the renegade option where Shepard ask why she did what she did.

What I like most about this. Is the fact that Shepard can actually show gratitude and be thankful that Liara rescued him. Unlike in the Illium cameo where Shepard can either be angry or act like a brick.

Huh, I had no idea about that. It always bothered me that Shepard couldn't be grateful that she recovered her body. I'll have to try it.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Tyranniac wrote...
Huh, I had no idea about that. It always bothered me that Shepard couldn't be grateful that she recovered her body. I'll have to try it.

I should note that Shepard has either the choice to thank her or question her why she did it. The latter is the lower option and Shepard does not sound angry but simply puzzled and confused.

Both of Liara's responses are very heartfelt.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

Tyranniac wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

And frankly. I abseloutly loath the opposite response. I hate how passive and indifferent Shepard is there. Atleast with the renegade options Shepard atleast shows concern and questions her behavior, even though he does it in a negative manner.

Agree.

I chose the other one because I felt Shep didn't know the whole story and should try to tip-toe on eggshells to figure it out (but as it turned out, there wasn't much to shake Liara with. It was all business). Too, Liara's reception was rather cool. Thereafter, I auto choose that line all the time. I think I may have chosen the 2nd option once and didn't stick with it.

[Tyranniac]

Lizardviking wrote...

Tyranniac wrote...
Huh, I had no idea about that. It always bothered me that Shepard couldn't be grateful that she recovered her body. I'll have to try it.

I should note that Shepard has either the choice to thank her or question her why she did it. The latter is the lower option and Shepard does not sound angry but simply puzzled and confused.

Both of Liara's responses are very heartfelt.

Will try both then. Although-... crap. Don't have any saves pre-Illium, only pre-LotSB. <_<

[Grimwick]

Tyranniac wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...


Do NOT get the dialog where Liara explains that she was the one who gave you to Cerberus DURING THE ILLIUM CAMEO.

Once you start LOTSB. Shepard will ask who Feron is (because he never found out about Redemption and what Liara did), Liara will then explain it to Shepard. Pick the renegade option where Shepard ask why she did what she did.

What I like most about this. Is the fact that Shepard can actually show gratitude and be thankful that Liara rescued him. Unlike in the Illium cameo where Shepard can either be angry or act like a brick.

Huh, I had no idea about that. It always bothered me that Shepard couldn't be grateful that she recovered her body. I'll have to try it.

I've always tried to get a more heartfelt conversation here, I'm usually paragon out of egg-shell stepping fear but it leaves Shepard pretty emotionless and almost as if Shepard doesn't care about how much Liara changed.

If you choose the renegade "why did you do it?" over "thank you" does Shepard seem more grateful overall, or angry? 

[Aristobulus500]

My problem with the renegade responses is it's usually Shepard acting angry or like he disapproves of Liara. Really, you can't salvage the Illium encounter, it's just awful all the way around. There's nothing at all satisfying with Liara until LotSB.

[Tyranniac]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

My problem with the renegade responses is it's usually Shepard acting angry or like he disapproves of Liara. Really, you can't salvage the Illium encounter, it's just awful all the way around. There's nothing at all satisfying with Liara until LotSB.

I don't have anything against the Illium encounter (as long as there is LotSB later on ofc). I think it does a good job of showing how consumed Liara is by her work and how after two years it's hard to adjust to Shepard being back.

[Ecrulis]

Tyranniac wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

My problem with the renegade responses is it's usually Shepard acting angry or like he disapproves of Liara. Really, you can't salvage the Illium encounter, it's just awful all the way around. There's nothing at all satisfying with Liara until LotSB.

I don't have anything against the Illium encounter (as long as there is LotSB later on ofc). I think it does a good job of showing how consumed Liara is by her work and how after two years it's hard to adjust to Shepard being back.

I agree it fits very well with sheps feelings, for my cannon shep at least, she just lost 2 years of her life, found out she was dead and worse the people who used to be close to her dont seem to trust her, and finally it seems that the woman she loves doesnt seem to have the time of day, ME2 is a very, very low point emotionally for my shep (for a few sheps id imagine) only to have it take a turn for the better after LotSB (I like it better after SM).

[Grimwick]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

My problem with the renegade responses is it's usually Shepard acting angry or like he disapproves of Liara. Really, you can't salvage the Illium encounter, it's just awful all the way around. There's nothing at all satisfying with Liara until LotSB.

Yeah I pretty much feel this way too. None of the options really suited how I imagined the whole first meeting. At least LotSB rectified this!
It's a bit like the problem with the LotSB flag bug in ME3 - it's just something that takes me out of my imagination.  

[Aristobulus500]

I mean, there's a reason LotSB got made in the first place, and was the quality it was - that's because the writers directly heard complaints about Liara's encounter in Illium and how out of character both she and Shepard acted, especially towards a relationship, and aimed to fix that.

And they did!

[kumquats]

Tyranniac wrote...

Huh, I had no idea about that. It always bothered me that Shepard couldn't be grateful that she recovered her body. I'll have to try it.

Liara even talks about Benezia on Illium, but I only encountered that dialogue after 4-5 playthroughs.
I alway get the kicks out of a game, when I can discover something new, when I thought I saw everything.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

kumquats wrote...

Tyranniac wrote...

Huh, I had no idea about that. It always bothered me that Shepard couldn't be grateful that she recovered her body. I'll have to try it.

Liara even talks about Benezia on Illium, but I only encountered that dialogue after 4-5 playthroughs.
I alway get the kicks out of a game, when I can discover something new, when I thought I saw everything.

I always found that dialog cold. I mean Shepard just compared Liara to her indoctrinated mother? 

I am suprised Liara did not get upset at Shepard or angry.

[kumquats]

Lizardviking wrote...
I always found that dialog cold. I mean Shepard just compared Liara to her indoctrinated mother? 

I am suprised Liara did not get upset at Shepard or angry.

Maybe, on the other hand, it made me think about how history really will remember Benezia, if at all.

ME2 is like a dark romance interlude, I rather liked it for that. I never had to wait for LotSB, like other fans.
It's like Shepard tries to get a reaction out of Liara, because she is so focused on her revenge.


[Edit:] Maybe something to add, my Shepard is in general a very headstrong person, who always gets what she wants and I really love it that Liara has the control in ME2 and my Shepard is a little helpless.
But that's only for me, for RP reasons. ^.^

Modifié par kumquats, 17 mai 2012 - 08:29 .

[Ecrulis]

Lizardviking wrote...

kumquats wrote...

Tyranniac wrote...

Huh, I had no idea about that. It always bothered me that Shepard couldn't be grateful that she recovered her body. I'll have to try it.

Liara even talks about Benezia on Illium, but I only encountered that dialogue after 4-5 playthroughs.
I alway get the kicks out of a game, when I can discover something new, when I thought I saw everything.

I always found that dialog cold. I mean Shepard just compared Liara to her indoctrinated mother? 

I am suprised Liara did not get upset at Shepard or angry.

Most of the time I just can't pick the renegade options with Liara, shes the only one that my renshep has a hard time being stern with, that was especially true on Illium.

[Aristobulus500]

Yeah, I really can't stand being mean or cold to Liara.

[lillitheris]

Yay, more Liara in Chapter 10. She’s feeling a little better now.

[Grimwick]

Lizardviking wrote...

kumquats wrote...

Liara even talks about Benezia on Illium, but I only encountered that dialogue after 4-5 playthroughs.
I alway get the kicks out of a game, when I can discover something new, when I thought I saw everything.

I always found that dialog cold. I mean Shepard just compared Liara to her indoctrinated mother? 

I am suprised Liara did not get upset at Shepard or angry.

I expected Liara to have an angry/emotional outburst at first, but she takes it quite well, especially considering how Shepard says that line.

I personally can't be cold/uncaring to Liara so I almost wanted Liara to get angry. I always choose the gentler option.

Modifié par Grimwick, 17 mai 2012 - 08:35 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

kumquats wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
I always found that dialog cold. I mean Shepard just compared Liara to her indoctrinated mother? 

I am suprised Liara did not get upset at Shepard or angry.

ME2 is like a dark romance interlude, I rather liked it for that. I never had to wait for LotSB, like other fans.
It's like Shepard tries to get a reaction out of Liara, because she is so focused on her revenge.

Which as an idea have alot of merit. The problem arives when Bioware butchers the execution resulting in drama that is forced because it only happen due to Shepard acting OOC.

Maybe, on the other hand, it made me think about how history really will remember Benezia, if at all.

Given the denial of the Reapers and lack of mentioning of Benezia. My best guess is that the Asari republics tried to bury Benezia as much as possible (and being seemingly succesful) to avoid embarresment that an important matriach was supporting Saren. If question were raised about Benezia, they would most likely claim that she was simply a traitor.

Which makes me feel even worse for Liara since god knows how much negative fallout she had to endure because of her mother.

Ecrulis wrote...
Most of the time I just can't pick the
renegade options with Liara, shes the only one that my renshep has a
hard time being stern with, that was especially true on Illium.

That
dialog is not renegade per say if I remember, I think it is placed in
the middle when you go talk to her when you still have not completed the
observe quest.

But I take most of the renegade choices with Liara during the Illium cameo.  The only way for Shepard to display anything other than indifference. I like that Shepard calls her out on the seemingly insane idea of wasting two years of your life on vengance.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 17 mai 2012 - 08:43 .

[Tyranniac]

Lizardviking wrote...

But I take most of the renegade choices with Liara during the Illium cameo.  The only way for Shepard to display anything other than indifference. I like that Shepard calls her out on the seemingly insane idea of wasting two years of your life on vengance.

Mmh, my Shepard is mostly paragon but I certainly don't shun renegade choices when they are appropriate, such as on Illium.

[kumquats]

Lizardviking wrote...

Given the denial of the Reapers and lack of mentioning of Benezia. My best guess is that the Asari republics tried to bury Benezia as much as possible (and being seemingly succesful) to avoid embarresment that an important matriach was supporting Saren. If question were raised about Benezia, they would most likely claim that she was simply a traitor.

Which makes me feel even worse for Liara since god knows how much negative fallout she had to endure because of her mother.

When you think about it's rather funny that the Reapers had Benezia indoctrinated, a Matriach who had clearance for another Prothean Beacon, that held the last key to their destruction.

Modifié par kumquats, 17 mai 2012 - 08:53 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

kumquats wrote...
When you think about it's rather funny that the Reapers had Benezia indoctrinated, a Matriach who had clearance for another Prothean Beacon, that held the last key to their destruction.

Oh gee... Do we have another plot hole here perhaps?

Modifié par Lizardviking, 17 mai 2012 - 08:54 .

[kumquats]

Lizardviking wrote...

kumquats wrote...
When you think about it's rather funny that the Reapers had Benezia indoctrinated, a Matriach who had clearance for another Prothean Beacon, that held the last key to their destruction.

Oh gee... Do we have another plot hole here perhaps?

I don't really know, I would have to read the Codex again. Or I ask around: Can Reapers read the thoughts and memories of their indoctrinated victims?
I honestly have no idea. LoL

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

kumquats wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

kumquats wrote...
When you think about it's rather funny that the Reapers had Benezia indoctrinated, a Matriach who had clearance for another Prothean Beacon, that held the last key to their destruction.

Oh gee... Do we have another plot hole here perhaps?

I don't really know, I would have to read the Codex again. Or I ask around: Can Reapers read the thoughts and memories of their indoctrinated victims?
I honestly have no idea. LoL

As far as I remember, anything an indoctrinated victim knows the Reapers know as well.

[Arcataye]

Tyranniac wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

My problem with the renegade responses is it's usually Shepard acting angry or like he disapproves of Liara. Really, you can't salvage the Illium encounter, it's just awful all the way around. There's nothing at all satisfying with Liara until LotSB.

I don't have anything against the Illium encounter (as long as there is LotSB later on ofc). I think it does a good job of showing how consumed Liara is by her work and how after two years it's hard to adjust to Shepard being back.

My problem with renegade responses are that you never know if Shepard is going just a bit angry or downright evil. I don't feel like quicksaving before every convo, especially if they come as a surprise, so I've missed loads of dialogue that might've been actually great.

Modifié par Arcataye, 17 mai 2012 - 09:17 .

[Theodoro]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

My problem with the renegade responses is it's usually Shepard acting angry or like he disapproves of Liara. Really, you can't salvage the Illium encounter, it's just awful all the way around. There's nothing at all satisfying with Liara until LotSB.

Exactly - the biggest problem with pre-LotSB ME2 was that Shepard couldn't have a meaningful discussion with Liara as to how the two of them stand or simply ask why she acts the way she does, and maybe try to bring the old Liara back through words, and eventually rekindle the relationship. What we had instead was either being angry at her (not wanting anything to do with her) or being completely indifferent and simply go about our business with finding Thane and Samara.

Arcataye wrote...

My problem with renegade responses are that you never know if Shepard is going just a bit angry or downright evil. I don't feel like quicksaving before every convo, especially if they come as a surprise, so I've missed loads of dialogue that might've been actually great.

The problem with Renegade Shepard sometimes is that he/she can do evil things for no good reason at all. Renegade does not and should not equal evil. There shouldn't be evil options in the game. Renegade is simply another approach, another method to dealing with a situation, often more radical. But there are always some of them thrown into the mix, which also makes me somewhat reluctant to run the risk of choosing them.

Modifié par Theodoro, 17 mai 2012 - 09:18 .