56459 réponses à ce sujet

[Theodoro]

CrimsonN7 wrote...

If we were to go along with this theory it would have been far more believable to incorporate the stages of reaper indoctrination in Shep throughout the series, not to just slap it in there in the last chapter of the series in the last ten minutes of the game. The indoctrination theory although clever is just fans trying to make some sense of the horrible mess of an abrupt ending bioware left us with.

Indeed - and like somebody pointed out - Shepard's crew, especially his/her LI, should have taken notice of his/her indoctrination, however subtle it might seem. The dreams were made to play with Shepard's guilt rather than twist his/her mind. As much as I'd love for the Indoctrination Theory to be true, as it's an incredible plot twist and a way out of this horrible ending, I doubt it's something that the writers intended - and even if they did decide to incorporate it into the Extended Cut, the problem with the lack of actual indoctrination attempts before the run to the beam persists.

In this case, Liara would pick up on something happening to Shepard - especially during the joining. It just doesn't make sense to me that Liara wouldn't notice that something is wrong as through the joining, Liara and Shepard essentially become one - a single, rapturous whole; their thoughts and feelings interwoven.

Modifié par Theodoro, 23 mai 2012 - 06:23 .

[lillitheris]

Ecrulis wrote...

I wanted to have the dreams at least have some sort of meanig so in my fanfic, I have a young shepard have a recurring nightmare that shes lost in dense woods, the nightmare will get worse as the story progresses. So now for me at least theres a reason my cannon shep is dreaming about a random forest.

That might work well. I always find it hard to relate to recurring dreams and really scary dreams because I have never in my years experienced them – although given how often they appear in books and TV/movies, I assume I’m one of a very lucky few in that aspect.

I especially detest prophetic dreams or ones where you actively and clearly solve concrete real problems, talk with dead relatives and so on (if it’s not a setting).

Aanyway, /offtopic

[MrStoob]

If we're going as far back as ME1 for fave scenes...

The whole conversation with Liara where Shep jokes that she wants to dissect her, classic.

I never do the scene myself coz I want Liara ASAP on my ship in ME1, but if you go to Therum after Noveria or Feros, she has gone slightly doo-lally with hunger/exhaustion and thinks Shep and co are hallucinations. That's funny.

[CrimsonN7]

[quote]Theodoro wrote...

The dreams were made to play with Shepard's guilt rather than twist his/her mind. As much as I'd love for the Indoctrination Theory to be true, as it's an incredible plot twist and a way out of this horrible ending, I doubt it's something that the writers intended - and even if they did decide to incorporate it into the Extended Cut, the problem with the lack of actual indoctrination attempts before the run to the beam persists."

Exactly for indoctrination to work Shep would have had to be in direct contact with a reaper device for a prolonged period of time not just coming into contact with one now and again. Indoctrination theory doesn't work. For Shep to be indoctrinated we would have seen physical side affects and mental ones too, Shep would have complained of headaches, had a feeling of being watched, would of been paranoid etc.

Liara would have definitely suspected that Shep wasn't herself, hell when she tells you on Cronos station that she knew it was really you the first time she touched you again, Liara is very thorough not that my Shep would ever complain:wub:

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

lillitheris wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...

I wanted to have the dreams at least have some sort of meanig so in my fanfic, I have a young shepard have a recurring nightmare that shes lost in dense woods, the nightmare will get worse as the story progresses. So now for me at least theres a reason my cannon shep is dreaming about a random forest.

That might work well. I always find it hard to relate to recurring dreams and really scary dreams because I have never in my years experienced them – although given how often they appear in books and TV/movies, I assume I’m one of a very lucky few in that aspect.

I especially detest prophetic dreams or ones where you actively and clearly solve concrete real problems, talk with dead relatives and so on (if it’s not a setting).

Aanyway, /offtopic

What about dreams that are not so much prophetic as much as they reveal some sort of guilt or fear of the character?

Tyranniac wrote...

I decided that the forest was on Mindoir to give it more meaning.

For a colonist Shepard that makes sense.

Still trying to give the forest some sort of meaning for a Shepard with the spacer/warhero background.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 23 mai 2012 - 07:07 .

[Tyranniac]

Lizardviking wrote...


Still trying to give the forest some sort of meaning for a Shepard with the spacer/warhero background.

That must be difficult.

Maybe a childhood fear of forests due to growing up on spaceships? I don't think that'd be very strange.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Tyranniac wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...


Still trying to give the forest some sort of meaning for a Shepard with the spacer/warhero background.

That must be difficult.

Maybe a childhood fear of forests due to growing up on spaceships? I don't think that'd be very strange.

My only ideas so far are either a forest Shepard got lost in when he was a child when the family was on vacation (military families must have some sort vacation too right?). The other idea is that it was a forest on Earth he enjoyed visiting, and that only after experiencing all those events of the game does it start to be twisted into the place of his nightmares.

[Makrys]

Theodoro wrote...

Arcataye wrote...

What are everyones favourite Liara scenes?
For example LotSB interrupt kiss and London gift just to name two.

The time capsule scene. It was so touching and beautiful - and it says a lot about Liara and why we all love her. Knowing she went through all of this despite all of the chores she had as the Shadow Broker, especially during the war, just reaffirms what we know about her as a person. However, I wish that it had been expanded on if she's Shepard's LI.

Thank you for saying that. Because that is something that bothered me. It was such a special scene that I felt should have been a romantic one, yet we are again roped into the same 'friend' dialogue. Why wasn't there a romantic version of that scene as well? That really frustrated me. Such a wasted opportunity. It would have been so sweet. The scene as it stands is sweet, but they keep referring to each other as friends, which made no sense considering if you romanced her you both know you're more than that.

And don't even get me started on the citadel scene. Where I have to profess my love for her... what, a 4th time? I already told her I wanted things to work between us in the beginning of the game. And before that, we had just been together in LOTSB. There were some real continuity things in ME3 regarding your relationship with her that just made no sense and broke the realism a bit in my view. Come on, Bioware. 

Modifié par Makrys, 23 mai 2012 - 07:30 .

[Tyranniac]

Lizardviking wrote...


My only ideas so far are either a forest Shepard got lost in when he was a child when the family was on vacation (military families must have some sort vacation too right?). The other idea is that it was a forest on Earth he enjoyed visiting, and that only after experiencing all those events of the game does it start to be twisted into the place of his nightmares.

Both ideas make sense I think. 

Modifié par Tyranniac, 23 mai 2012 - 07:49 .

[Theodoro]

Makrys wrote...
Thank you for saying that. Because that is something that bothered me. It was such a special scene that I felt should have been a romantic one, yet we are again roped into the same 'friend' dialogue. Why wasn't there a romantic version of that scene as well? That really frustrated me. Such a wasted opportunity. It would have been so sweet. The scene as it stands is sweet, but they keep referring to each other as friends, which made no sense considering if you romanced her you both know you're more than that.

And don't even get me started on the citadel scene. Where I have to profess my love for her... what, a 4th time? I already told her I wanted things to work between us in the beginning of the game. And before that, we had just been together in LOTSB. There were some real continuity things in ME3 regarding your relationship with her that just made no sense and broke the realism a bit in my view. Come on, Bioware.

That's one thing in Liara's ME3 romance that bothers me a lot. People across the forum say that she has a lot of content, more so than almost any other squad member and I agree that that is a fact, though I'll never understand all the hate she's getting. They should be complaining that other squad members didn't get as much screen time instead of bashing on her. What they need to understand is that about seventy-five to ninety percent of this content plays out the same regardless whether Liara is your love interest or not.

From the top of my head, I'd say that the best examples of that are the time capsule scene, comforting Liara after Thessia, much of the Citadel date, her coming to Shepard's cabin on several occasions, and of course, the three-second scene of Liara at the end that pretty much everyone gets - only those that have romanced Ashley or Kaidan don't. Most of these should have played out differently if Liara's Shepard's LI or should not have been shown at all if she isn't.

That's why I think that a lot of Liara's content should have been romance-exclusive - and that there should be more of it - it will make both us, and those that don't want as much Liara content 'forced' on them, happy. During my first playthrough, I was so glad that we have so many Liara/Shepard scenes, only to find out later that they're also available for Shepards that have not romanced Liara. Such as her gift in London.

And yes - seeing as it's been so many years of devotion and love on Shepard's part, I don't see a reason for him/her to 'confirm' his/her relationship with Liara several times over the course of the game, especially not on the Citadel date, which should have played out differently. That friend talk was just so insulting.

Modifié par Theodoro, 23 mai 2012 - 08:11 .

[kyg_20X6]

Slighly on/off topic, but my mood was buoyed by this little exchange I had with Jessica Merizan:

(her original tweet was in reply to someone saying they want a 'happy ending')

https://twitter.com/...386319487180802

She's also confirms (in a tweet to someone else) that weird movements of the crew/Normandy will be explained in the EC:

https://twitter.com/...373998828236802

[MidnightRaith]

Thessaly77 wrote...

Hi All, sorry to butt in with a fanfic question but I have been looking for a fic that I read a few days ago but can't seem to find it now. It's about the story behind Liara being called 'Little Wing' --- when she was very young, she improvised some kind of cloth or something to be able to fly and ended up with a broken arm. It is a really sweet story (and it also includes the other squadmates' stories of themselves when they were younger, I remember laughing at Ashley's 'show n tell' video) and I'd really apreciate it if someone can provide me a link, thanks!

Ta-da!

Man, was this fic frustrating me. After you asked for someone to find it, I just had to do it, since I knew the exact fic you were talking about. However, I just COULD NOT for the life of me think of the appropriate tags.  Finally found it after realizing that its author has one of the few 100,000+ word fics....

On a side note, am I one of the few that absolutely cannot stand IT? 

Modifié par MidnightRaith, 23 mai 2012 - 09:16 .

[Theodoro]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Slighly on/off topic, but my mood was buoyed by this little exchange I had with Jessica Merizan:

(her original tweet was in reply to someone saying they want a 'happy ending')

https://twitter.com/...386319487180802

She's also confirms (in a tweet to someone else) that weird movements of the crew/Normandy will be explained in the EC:

https://twitter.com/...373998828236802

I wouldn't put much faith in anything Jessica has to say - who knows whether she actually knows these things or not for certain, being just a Community Manager. And her usual cryptic responses don't confirm much - I'll believe these things when I see them. Though it'd be pretty weird if they did not expand on the 'Shepard takes a breath ending', as that is what is widely considered to be the 'canon' ending, and it would go against their promise of providing clarity and closure.

MidnightRaith wrote...
On a side note, am I one of the few that absolutely cannot stand IT?

Why can't you stand it? It's about BioWare's only saving throw out of the much more horrible ending we have now.

Modifié par Theodoro, 23 mai 2012 - 08:29 .

[Tyranniac]

MidnightRaith wrote...

On a side note, am I one of the few that absolutely cannot stand IT? 

*shrug* Don't buy it but can't say I mind if other people do.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

MidnightRaith wrote...
On a side note, am I one of the few that absolutely cannot stand IT? 

Nope. ****** poor writing should not be used to fix ****** poor writing.

[kyg_20X6]

Theodoro wrote...

I wouldn't put much faith in anything Jessica has to say - who knows whether she actually knows these things or not for certain, being just a Community Manager. And her usual cryptic responses don't confirm much - I'll believe these things when I see them. Though it'd be pretty weird if they did not expand on the 'Shepard takes a breath ending', as that is what is widely considered to be the 'canon' ending, and it would go against their promise of providing clarity and closure.

She's already stated she's seen content from the EC and she's changed her behaviour and been very cautious (usually silent) about the subject since they made the announcement. I'd say she's probably very thoughtful about what she says now. And I'd say if she does comment on it's either: a) something she's allowed to confirm (like the second tweet), or something that won't lead to the wrong expectations. Otherwise she could just stay silent. I don't think there is a need to instantly dismiss what she says, especially post-EC announcment (sure, some stuff before that may have just been her interpretation).

[Theodoro]

kyg_20X6 wrote...
She's already stated she's seen content from the EC and she's changed her behaviour and been very cautious (usually silent) about the subject since they made the announcement. I'd say she's probably very thoughtful about what she says now. And I'd say if she does comment on it's either: a) something she's allowed to confirm (like the second tweet), or something that won't lead to the wrong expectations. Otherwise she could just stay silent. I don't think there is a need to instantly dismiss what she says, especially post-EC announcment (sure, some stuff before that may have just been her interpretation).

I hadn't been following her tweets for a while so I must have missed that. Well, it's still a glimmer of hope. Since your crew appearing on the Normandy is one of the biggest inconsistencies in the game, I'd say that it's one of the things that they'll definitely be clarifying anyway.

What would you guys want to see happen in the Extended Cut if you had taken Liara on the run to the Citadel beam? How would she be picked up by the Normandy and how would she react to Joker heading towards the Mass Relay and leaving Shepard behind?

[Tyranniac]

Theodoro wrote...


What would you guys want to see happen in the Extended Cut if you had taken Liara on the run to the Citadel beam? How would she be picked up by the Normandy and how would she react to Joker heading towards the Mass Relay and leaving Shepard behind?

Hmh, not sure, haven't given much thought to that since it's not amongst the most important things that needs to be fixed to me. It seems very likely they will address that somehow though.

[CrimsonN7]

Arcataye wrote...

What are everyones favourite Liara scenes?
For example LotSB interrupt kiss and London gift just to name two.

Admiring that blue goddess in my Shep's bed is always a win-win 

But if I must pick out some other scenes throughout the series in ME1:
I'd go for Liara having a nerdgasm when you tell her about your visions love how exicited she gets when you tell her "a lesser mind would have been utterly destroyed by the process. You must be remarkably strong-willed, Commander".

being her adorable awkward self when she said that Shep would be an interesting specimen for an indepth study, hang on missy we just meet *cough* my cabins that way;)

Love when Liara admits to looking up Shep's service history and admitting her crush,aww so cute, "I wanted to know more about you. To understand what made you into the woman you are. There is something compelling about you, Shepard."

Liara explaining the asari melding union, "I've never really thought about it. Not until I met you".

Liara's first time and the morning after 'ready for round two? Commander!"

In ME2:
Liara embarrased that Shep walked in on her threatening that guy, Shep not impressed that she has to hack terminals. Telling Liara you forgive her for handing your body over to Cerberus, "I couldn't let you go".

Liara and Shep bickering in the high speed car chase, "what kind of weapons does this thing have? It's a taxi it's got a fare meter."

(Asking Feron alot of questions unneccesarily because I thought he was after my girl, he may have got electrocuted a couple of times:whistle:)

Liara catching Shep off guard with that kiss, Shep returning the favour, sparks fly literaly 

Telling Liara you want her back in your life, inviting her to the Normandy, love the bit when Shep asks her does she want anything for her birthday and her reply ''you're alive again, I've got everything I want". Shep promising to always come back, she's got something special to come back too:lol:

And finally in ME3:
Reuniting on Mars, comforting her on Mars, the flatterer scene, meeting Aethyta and getting Liara to meet her dad, their conversation is epic, "how many times have you thrown her on the bed and pealed her out of that uniform? Do you have to make it sound so tawdry?"

Timecapsual scene loved it and Liara telling future generations who Shepard was.
The date, "friends don't cut it for me anymore Liara, well, that sounds serious:D Love that playful tone, Shep promising to be her bondmate. The converation before the love scene is beautiful, couldn't ask for more in that scene, and Liara without hesitation teling Shep she loves her  Waking up from the nightmare Liara by her side perfect.

Liara's gift scene in London, hope she took my Shep's genetic code then and there, my Shep would have wanted Liara to have her kid.

Modifié par CrimsonN7, 23 mai 2012 - 09:20 .

[MidnightRaith]

Theodoro wrote...

Why do you? It's BioWare's only saving throw out of the much more horrible ending we have now.

I don't believe that at all, and I think we're kidding ourselves if that's what we think about it. First of all, supporters can't even agree which theory is the "right" one, second it's essentially an "It Was All A Dream" senario. That is such a cop out in any literary situation. A cheap trick, and I don't care what the "Dream Theory" is based on. Then you have the supporters that twist the lore to fit it. There has never been anyone that goes through the hallucinations supporters want Shepard to go through. No one has ever had their will split in two and symbolized by two characters. And above all, no one has ever fought off indoctrination. That crap pretty much liquifies your brains. Who the hell is going to have the "will" necessary to reverse brain deterioration?

Then, we get into the stuff outside Mass Effect and gaming in general. For the first time I know, people are actively asking a publisher, one that is perhaps leaning towards the unethical in terms of how they conduct their games, into making a non-ending to ME3 and we all would be oh-so happy to pay for the real ending later. What? Some people are actually asking for this? So, we are all willing to ignore how the gaming industry is kicking us all in the nads lately with Day 1 DLC, rushed games, incomplete games and just generally them trying to use our hook on games as a way to blantantly take advantage of the fact that many people are like this about their games:



That is a horrible thing to say to anyone in the gaming industry right now. Mass Effect 3 was clearly rushed. We got a crap ending and now people are saying that all will be forgiven if we make our game into an example of what could become EndGame DLC or some other crap like that because I've seen so many examples of people saying that they would pay, PAY, for someone to end this game the way they want it. Day 1 DLC wasn't ever supposed to be accepted by us. Now we get people moaning about it in the forums while they're downloading it as they type about it. That could be the new, hip way to tell a story in games. Release it in parts that are individually charged and wow, we get our games in "episodes." IT is a very good example of this, IMO. It's gamers directly asking Bioware to not make an ending to a game so that they could end it later.  We want a non-ending in a game that was clearly advertised as an ending to a series. ME3 did end. Not in a good way, but it did end and that is more than IT could ever claim. Everyone is watching us. We are the stars in this twisted soap-opera of an example of what happens when gamers don't get what they expected. Does anyone really think that what Bioware does here won't be looked at closely by other devs and publishers to learn what did and didn't work in this situation?

Fortunately, I'm very hopeful that IT won't be implemented. Bioware has said that they aren't aiming to take away the endings from the fans that liked them. IT would clearly do that. So, thank God for the Pro-Enders. You guys might just save us from a theory that no one wants to think out in the long run.

IT supporters also are guilty of spreading their fanfic across the entire board. Whether in duplicate threads or threads that aren't even about it. They derail anything and everything into yet another debate about IT. Something I think will soon happen in this one.... However, for someone that can't stand IT, this is horribly obnoxious and makes this theory even harder to swallow than it already is. I don't like it. Clearly, I have strong feelings against it. Shoving it down my throat is only going to make me even more against it in the longrun. Because, now I think it's annoying on top of insulting. Two things I don't tend to tolerate.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

CrimsonN7 wrote...
Liara's gift scene in London, hope she took my Shep's genetic code then and there, my Shep would have wanted Liara to have her kid.

I am quite okay with people hoping that Liara and Shepard concieved a child, but of all the places people wanted it to happen they think its London? Instead of what might be their last night together before Cronos station, people would rather have it be in the makeshift infirmary where the wounded soldiers are more likely than moaning in agony.

Sorry, just something I always found strange.

[MidnightRaith]

Lizardviking wrote...

CrimsonN7 wrote...
Liara's gift scene in London, hope she took my Shep's genetic code then and there, my Shep would have wanted Liara to have her kid.

I am quite okay with people hoping that Liara and Shepard concieved a child, but of all the places people wanted it to happen they think its London? Instead of what might be their last night together before Cronos station, people would rather have it be in the makeshift infirmary where the wounded soldiers are more likely than moaning in agony.

Sorry, just something I always found strange.

Yeah, that is a bit unromantic now that I think about it. Hell, having it done before Cronos could rectify the "Liara RAPED Shepard!!!!" argument. After all, who's to say that Shepard didn't willingly contribute her genetic code then? They talk about kids in London, it could have already happened.... 

[lillitheris]

Theodoro wrote...

That's one thing in Liara's ME3 romance that bothers me a lot. People across the forum say that she has a lot of content, more so than almost any other squad member and I agree that that is a fact, though I'll never understand all the hate she's getting. They should be complaining that other squad members didn't get as much screen time instead of bashing on her.

Two words. ‘Crab’ and ‘barrel’.

[Tyranniac]

MidnightRaith wrote...

...yet another debate about IT. Something I think will soon happen in this one.... However, for someone...

Doubt you have to worry about that. I advice that you stop discussing it however because that certainly might lead to thread derailing.

Let's be on-topic!

Lizardviking wrote...

CrimsonN7 wrote...
Liara's gift scene in London, hope she took my Shep's genetic code then and there, my Shep would have wanted Liara to have her kid.

I am quite okay with people hoping that Liara and Shepard concieved a child, but of all the places people wanted it to happen they think its London? Instead of what might be their last night together before Cronos station, people would rather have it be in the makeshift infirmary where the wounded soldiers are more likely than moaning in agony.

Sorry, just something I always found strange.

 

I'd rather have them concieve, you know, after the war.

Edit: Top? Let's see...

 
Have we had this one here before? By 
hoodie-gypsy. 

Modifié par Tyranniac, 23 mai 2012 - 09:08 .

[DOsquareZER]

Lizardviking wrote...

CrimsonN7 wrote...
Liara's gift scene in London, hope she took my Shep's genetic code then and there, my Shep would have wanted Liara to have her kid.

I am quite okay with people hoping that Liara and Shepard concieved a child, but of all the places people wanted it to happen they think its London? Instead of what might be their last night together before Cronos station, people would rather have it be in the makeshift infirmary where the wounded soldiers are more likely than moaning in agony.

Sorry, just something I always found strange.

As opposed to the eve of a final fatalistic battle where the real possibility that either parent has a high percentage of dying the following day (or two or three, everything after thessia was kind of rushed and i have trouble establishing a time line)?  Granted the scene is full of love and time-pausing happiness but...thinkking on a larger picture - neither situation would be an acceptable time for baby making, too many variables.  Mind-easing, calming, affection saturated love making (both mind meld and physical) ...thats about all i can accept them as.  A moment of peace in hectic times, an even greater comfort to my shepard than the promise of a future legacy (which liara has all ready kind of done with the little black box gift she gave)

Edit: 

Tyranniac wrote...
I'd rather have them concieve, you know, after the war.

lol, pretty much this.  im not going to get into the mental issues shep's going to have after the war, but rushing into a pregnancy after such traumatic events... ionno *shrugs* it's all questionable, all subject to the individual i suppose.  I know my shep wouldn't be comfortable with kids until a good long while after...if ever.

Also: IT patch job:  Both are plot hole ridden and ignore/contradict bits of the sanctified ME lore, both leave an epic series without an ending (i cant decide which one is more insulting to shep and fans tbh), and one is a very obvious example of desperation within fans to ''fix'' an all ready crappy conclusion with another broken piece that doesn't quite fit.. (btw did you know that entirety of ME3 IS the ending, mind blowing right? It's artisitc brilliance! /sarcasm... *slap to face!*).  In order for IT to work, you would need to rewrite ME3's final hour a bit, which BW has clearly stated are never going to do.  It's a good attempt at "Speculation" that he who shall not be named had intended - but alas I think thats about all it is and will ever be.  If bw ever picks it up, itll be a very murky and precarious water they attempt to swim through.  To put it simply adopting this theory would be placing htemselves between an even heavier rock and hard place(a corner of all places) that theyve all ready placed themselves in with the "interpretation" ending(s).

Modifié par doozer12, 23 mai 2012 - 09:22 .