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[Aristobulus500]

Oh damn, yeah that's a good one, Theo. It definitely fits amazingly well for Liara/Shep, given that they actually, you know, lose eachother for a while, back in ME2. Liara loses Shepard because he dies, but then still has him lost to Cerberus, not regaining a relationship until LotSB, where she finally finds a place and stops being, well, lost.

Shepard loses Liara because of the whole Shadow Broker business, and how rocky their relationship is until LotSB. Without her, you can definitely say he's more pained - without her to help keep him stable and grounded. That pain does show through in the scene of just staring at the picture, steeling himself.

Also, it's true that you could make a similar argument for a Vermire Survivor romance, it's not the same as Liara's romance, so I still think the theme fits her better - because Liara is more strongly affected by Shepard's death, that she goes through everything she does. All she is doing for herself, even when you find her 2 years later, is still related to Shepard and avenging him. And she's still clearly in love, she's just struggling with a lot of stress and mixed feelings and not knowing where she stands with Shepard after what he's been through and how she handed him over to Cerberus.

The Vermire Survivor, on the other hand, has basically moved on from Shepard. And they're the ones angry at Shep! They have a prestigious spot on the Alliance, and aren't really concerned with Shepard anymore - certainly a far cry from Liara's life. And they certainly don't seem "lost", either. It's very easy to see Liara as lost.

None of the other LI's ever really go through a period of losing Shep or Shep losing them, at least not where there's also a time where they reconcile and get back together. Shepard could lose the other LI's to them dying, for example, but then they are gone. So the song being "I was lost" doesn't make sense, it'd have to be "I am lost". So it still fits Liara better.

[Theodoro]

Exactly why I feel that "I Was Lost Without You" was made with Liara and Shepard in mind. It feels out of place that a romanced Virmire Survivor will not give Shepard the benefit of the doubt and blindly believe that he/she is now a terrorist. Didn't they got to know him/her at all during all the time they spent on the Normandy while he/she was doing the best to save the entire galaxy from certain destruction, putting his/her life on the line at all times?

Liara is different. She may have been cold to Shepard in the original ME2 encounter, but at least she believed in him/her - knows that he/she is always doing the right thing. Even if she wasn't the one to bring Shepard's body to Cerberus, she would still have that faith. Her reasons for not joining him/her and acting the way she did were completely different. For her to be whole again, she had to understand that she'd need to have Shepard at her side again - and thankfully LotSB allowed Shepard to make her realize just that - from that point on, they were no longer "lost".

[kyg_20X6]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

None of the other LI's ever really go through a period of losing Shep or Shep losing them, at least not where there's also
a time where they reconcile and get back together. Shepard could lose
the other LI's to them dying, for example, but then they are gone. So
the song being "I was lost" doesn't make sense, it'd have to be "I am lost". So it still fits Liara better.

EDIT (before I go a litle off-topic): I haven't really listened to the soundtrack (I have a copy, from the CE, but the music has sad connotations ATM, given the endings) but if this piece only plays for Liara/VS, then you are totally correct. It is much more fitting for Liara.

The only romance I think comes close to (but still doesn't top) Liara's is Tali's. She loved Shepard from the start (although she doesn't confess this 'til ME2) and is incredibly devoted, loyal and deeply in love with Shepard, if you romance her.

The others:

VS: Abandon you during ME2.
Garrus: Felt more like a booty call during ME2, there seem to be no feelings of love 'til maybe the end of ME3.
Thane, Jacob: Die/cheat on you.
Jack/Miranda: There's real love and affection there but it's still relatively new and under-developed.

Still, none can really hold a candle to Liara. I mean, she does put her life on the line to bring you back from the dead even if you DIDN'T romance her (how's that for love?)!

Modifié par kyg_20X6, 24 mai 2012 - 08:52 .

[What?]

Hello, fellow Liara fans! I normally refrain from posting in the character discussion threads, as they tend to get heated. However, thought I'd drop in because the music discussion for Liara and Shepard caught my eye. I personally imagined my Shepard as being an intense fan of big band and jazz. That said, if I had to pick a song for them I'd go with Frank Sinatra's Serenade in Blue:

Modifié par VictorianTrash, 24 mai 2012 - 09:46 .

[PMC65]

Debating which character is the best romance is like debating which ice cream flavor is the best. It all comes down to personal preference. Each relationship has its pros and cons and depending on how you play your Shepard that also impacts the relationship as well.

With EW Shepard there is no character other than Liara that fit her story ... although Kaidan might have worked. In ME2 there was a moment that I thought EW was done with her and had it not been for the DLC LotSB it would have been over. It's a shame that the VS did not receive a DLC as well. But you get what you get. 

PV Shepard was totally wrong for Liara ... all he could see was Ash. Period. Forcing him with Liara would have felt just wrong and yucky! PV and Ash had a relationship that I loved. It was challenging, they both were wrong at different points and when they finally made it ... jumping jimmy it was good.

When it comes to romances I like Liara, Ashley, Miranda and Kaidan but that does not mean that they are the best ... just my personal favorites based on my different Shepards and the stories I built around them.

EDIT: spellings   

Modifié par PMC65, 24 mai 2012 - 09:45 .

[kumquats]

If every character would follow Shepard and be 100% loyal all the time no matter what, it would be the most boring game of all time. I like the relationship between Shepard and VS, because it can go how you want it. There are a lot interesting scenarios to be seen.
Liara is always the same way, if you refuse to talk with her, there will be no difference, not like in ME1, where she will counter Shepard.
Even Joker is more interesting, they can really have a fallout, but Shepard has the chance to apologize. I want to have different relationships with everyone.
You can't have a different relationship with Liara. Where is the Liara from ME1 who would push my Shepard? I miss that a lot.
But I will record some lines this weekend and experiment more with her dialogues, maybe I missed something.

Yeah I like all the romances, because each of them has a different flavor, but in ME3, that is completely gone. No matter how much I love Liara as a character, I really wanted more variety in the subplots. That is on my list of missed opportunities btw. ^.^

[CrazyGreggy]

Theodoro wrote...

I believe that "I Was Lost Without You" was written just for Shepard and Liara - it's just so... fitting - the music and the title. It's just so full of emotion and feelings that correspond to what I believe Shepard and Liara feel for one another. They were lost without each other. I tend to think of it as their theme.

Sam Hulick's YouTube vid of himself playing does end with the Liara love scene when it switches from one piano to the synth violins. Just don't say that around Ashmancers: "but Ashley actually says those words, herpderp".

[PMC65]

kumquats wrote...

If every character would follow Shepard and be 100% loyal all the time no matter what, it would be the most boring game of all time. I like the relationship between Shepard and VS, because it can go how you want it. There are a lot interesting scenarios to be seen.
Liara is always the same way, if you refuse to talk with her, there will be no difference, not like in ME1, where she will counter Shepard.
Even Joker is more interesting, they can really have a fallout, but Shepard has the chance to apologize. I want to have different relationships with everyone.
You can't have a different relationship with Liara. Where is the Liara from ME1 who would push my Shepard? I miss that a lot.
But I will record some lines this weekend and experiment more with her dialogues, maybe I missed something.

Yeah I like all the romances, because each of them has a different flavor, but in ME3, that is completely gone. No matter how much I love Liara as a character, I really wanted more variety in the subplots. That is on my list of missed opportunities btw. ^.^

EW Shepard and Liara were always at odds in ME1 and even in ME2 ... since I only played ME3 once I don't really know myself. I didn't play either of my main Shepards unfortunately and I've still had no desire to re-play it. Let me know if they can push each other like ME1 ... fingers crossed.

[Akernis]

@ Arsitobulus & Theodoro: I agree completely with both of you it really fits well with Liara.

[kumquats]

PMC65 wrote...

EW Shepard and Liara were always at odds in ME1 and even in ME2 ... since I only played ME3 once I don't really know myself. I didn't play either of my main Shepards unfortunately and I've still had no desire to re-play it. Let me know if they can push each other like ME1 ... fingers crossed.

I did choose in the first dialogues, not to talk with Liara about Shepard's feelings, because my Renegade isn't open about her feelings at all.
It didn't change anything following the rest of the Liara romance or anything else. Nothing changed, but I will test more. Hopefully I can discover new dialogues.
It's very strange for me, because how Shepard acts, Liara should KNOW that there is something going on. Well I will see this weekend and report if I find something.

[kyg_20X6]

PMC65 wrote...

Debating which character is the best romance is like debating which ice cream flavor is the best.

*snip*

When it comes to romances I like Liara, Ashley, Miranda and Kaidan but that does not mean that they are the best ... just my personal favorites based on my different Shepards and the stories I built around them.
 

I've got Shepards with Liara, Ashley (ME1,2,3), Tali, Garrus, Jack, Miranda (all ME2,3). So I've seen most of the romances pan out. I enjoyed all of them (except Garrus and Ashley) and, yes, my judgement is subjective. But there are also objective negative aspects that way against certain charactera aswell (see above).

Modifié par kyg_20X6, 24 mai 2012 - 10:20 .

[PMC65]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

Debating which character is the best romance is like debating which ice cream flavor is the best.

*snip*

When it comes to romances I like Liara, Ashley, Miranda and Kaidan but that does not mean that they are the best ... just my personal favorites based on my different Shepards and the stories I built around them.
 

I've got Shepards with Liara, Ashley (ME1,2,3), Tali, Garrus, Jack, Miranda (all ME2,3). So I've seen most of the romances pan out. I enjoyed all of them (except Garrus) and, yes, my judgement is subjective. But there are also objective negative aspects that way against certain charactera aswell (see above).

Nope ... chocolate chip is the BEST!

[kyg_20X6]

PMC65 wrote...
Nope ... chocolate chip is the BEST!

HA! See, now I'm not a fan of hard stuff in my ice cream. Weird texture thing of mine.
Now, a tub of cookies'n'cream on the other hand... 

[villevalo]

CrimsonN7 wrote...

And if Shepard was indoctrinated on the citadel which I don't believe why would the reapers offer Shep the destruction option and not just control and synthesis when they are trying to indoctrinate him/her, makes NO SENSE! Also if we play along with this theory and if Liara didn't detect any indoctrination in Shep I highly doubt Javik wouldn't notice as he can read you just through touch alone, if it slipped Liara's net Javik would have spotted it.

I'm reminded of the film Inception, and the idea for that idea to stick in the head and grow it must seem genuine and coming from the hosts mind. So I guess I'm saying that Indoctrination works at its best and most complete if it gets the host to believe that that Reapers are great and everything by making the host come to that conclusion itself. So when the child offers Shep that option, its trying to get Shepard to accept them without any due force.

[kyg_20X6]

villevalo wrote...

CrimsonN7 wrote...

And if Shepard was indoctrinated on the citadel which I don't believe why would the reapers offer Shep the destruction option and not just control and synthesis when they are trying to indoctrinate him/her, makes NO SENSE! Also if we play along with this theory and if Liara didn't detect any indoctrination in Shep I highly doubt Javik wouldn't notice as he can read you just through touch alone, if it slipped Liara's net Javik would have spotted it.

I'm reminded of the film Inception, and the idea for that idea to stick in the head and grow it must seem genuine and coming from the hosts mind. So I guess I'm saying that Indoctrination works at its best and most complete if it gets the host to believe that that Reapers are great and everything by making the host come to that conclusion itself. So when the child offers Shep that option, its trying to get Shepard to accept them without any due force.

I agree with @villevalo and I think 'destroy' would be conspicuous in its absence.

Modifié par kyg_20X6, 24 mai 2012 - 10:39 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Could we keep the IT theory out of this thread please?

[lillitheris]

VictorianTrash wrote...

Hello, fellow Liara fans! I normally refrain from posting in the character discussion threads, as they tend to get heated. However, thought I'd drop in because the music discussion for Liara and Shepard caught my eye. I personally imagined my Shepard as being an intense fan of big band and jazz. That said, if I had to pick a song for them I'd go with Frank Sinatra's Serenade in Blue:

‘Behind the scenes look’ at my Liara: while Eevy likes mainly drum’n’bass-based modern music and some brassy funk, Liara does not listen to music much but, upon researching human love songs, she found a band called The Cure, who she does like. They sound a lot like some recently popular Thessian music styles, albeit the lyrics are a little dark so Liara likes to turn off the translator and just listen to the sounds and pick out the occasional words she understands when she concentrates.

So, naturally, the song is “Pictures of You”.

Modifié par lillitheris, 24 mai 2012 - 10:53 .

[Nharia1]

@PMC
Are we going to see more of E.W. Shepard? Cause I've read both yours and ladyvader's stuff like... oh 10 times through... each, and I'm loving both you guys! >.< Makes me wish I could write as well as you do.

[Yuqi]

Since I play Mass-Effect like a FF game I don't have a particular song for Shep/Liara. However vI think that A Thousand Years by Christina Perri fits all Shepards and Liara.

[MrStoob]

On the subject of Liara's 'markings', I was disappointed that her pink freckles became less pink and distinct. Really liked that look in ME2 on Illium. Dunno if it's an asari maturity thing or what.

[CrimsonN7]

MrStoob wrote...

On the subject of Liara's 'markings', I was disappointed that her pink freckles became less pink and distinct. Really liked that look in ME2 on Illium. Dunno if it's an asari maturity thing or what.

Well it's also hard not to notice that Liara is also more generously well- endowed in ME3 in comparision to ME and ME2. Some fanfic writers have referenced this fact and interprete it as Liara entering the matron stage early because of her regular melding unions with Shep. Who knows, maybe it's just her mom's good genes:whistle:

[MrStoob]

CrimsonN7 wrote...

MrStoob wrote...

On the subject of Liara's 'markings', I was disappointed that her pink freckles became less pink and distinct. Really liked that look in ME2 on Illium. Dunno if it's an asari maturity thing or what.

Well it's also hard not to notice that Liara is also more generously well- endowed in ME3 in comparision to ME and ME2. Some fanfic writers have referenced this fact and interprete it as Liara entering the matron stage early because of her regular melding unions with Shep. Who knows, maybe it's just her mom's good genes:whistle:

Hmm, bit of a leap on the Matron theory.  Maybe she just got a better bra?  lol

[lillitheris]

Hopping over to asari culture for a while, in the latest chapter I introduced the idea that an asari bond is more than marriage also in a legal sense. Has this topic come up?

[CrimsonN7]

MrStoob wrote...

Hmm, bit of a leap on the Matron theory.  Maybe she just got a better bra?  lol

Ha, yep Shepard looking up Liara's browsing history, recently purchased a set of wonderbras:lol: