56460 réponses à ce sujet

[Aristobulus500]

Makrys wrote...
True. That was just one idea. I could think of many others though, like you or anyone could. There's almost limitless possibilities. What did you think of that concept however? A Romance DLC that incorporated a mission which was centered around your LI,  and helped further the story, but also advanced and continued to flesh out their relationship?

Well, since you asked...

I don't much like your specific mission, it's a little weird and hard to accept, and doesn't really offer a chance for a major choice or arc, nor does it give any real reason to have another scene similar to Post-Thessia.

But I like the concept. Another LotSB would be perfect - more action, but I'd like it centered around Thessia somehow, instead of Illium this time, you're doing something on Thessia with Liara. Personally, I'd want the mission to have something to do with her Shadow Broker powers and really give Liara a chance to shine and show herself as competent - so much of the game she's overshadowed by ****ing Traynor.

She's shown as an intelligent and competent person anyway, but not really doing a lot with her Shadow Broker powers as far as Shepard is concerned, so I'd want the DLC to rectify that. Just like LotSB fixed a lot of the issues Liara had in ME2, this DLC I'd want to fix a lot of Liara's issues in ME3. Her weak showing as the Shadow Broker is one of them.

Her homeworld and race not getting to do anything significant or have a real role, is another. So that's why I say place it on Thessia and have the arc centered around something happening there among the Asari.

Then, just as in LotSB, you can run around various places and Liara would talk to you about them and such like that, intermissions between missions where you talk to Liara more and get chances to flesh out your romance more, maybe a chance to discuss what you and Liara would do after the war, because seeing Thessia up close is making her think about it, think about her home and a home away from the war.

And this is pure personal preference here, but I'd also love a locale similar to Liara's apartment - a chance to explore a Thessian home. Hell, I'd like it if after you beat it, you (and/or Liara) gained a home (base) on Thessia that you could return to just as a break. Could be similar to the place you get after clearing Pinnacle station in ME1, except more Asari design, obviously.

[TheMarshal]

Lizardviking wrote...

As a writer I would like to ask you what made said Shepard become a Mary-Sue?

Just want to know how people feel that a character is a Mary-Sue.

It's not just one thing that she did.  It was a great many things.  Like the fact that she was able to kill that shark using only her biotics.  Or how she managed to learn the asari dialect because of the trauma at the beginning of the story.  Or how even when she got so angry that she lost control and struck Ash that she still had the wherewithall to not hurt her too badly.  Real people don't have everything go right for them.  You can get away with a lot, especially in fanfiction.  But... you gotta give them limits.

[Akernis]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Makrys wrote...
True. That was just one idea. I could think of many others though, like you or anyone could. There's almost limitless possibilities. What did you think of that concept however? A Romance DLC that incorporated a mission which was centered around your LI,  and helped further the story, but also advanced and continued to flesh out their relationship?

Well, since you asked...

I don't much like your specific mission, it's a little weird and hard to accept, and doesn't really offer a chance for a major choice or arc, nor does it give any real reason to have another scene similar to Post-Thessia.

But I like the concept. Another LotSB would be perfect - more action, but I'd like it centered around Thessia somehow, instead of Illium this time, you're doing something on Thessia with Liara. Personally, I'd want the mission to have something to do with her Shadow Broker powers and really give Liara a chance to shine and show herself as competent - so much of the game she's overshadowed by ****ing Traynor.

She's shown as an intelligent and competent person anyway, but not really doing a lot with her Shadow Broker powers as far as Shepard is concerned, so I'd want the DLC to rectify that. Just like LotSB fixed a lot of the issues Liara had in ME2, this DLC I'd want to fix a lot of Liara's issues in ME3. Her weak showing as the Shadow Broker is one of them.

Her homeworld and race not getting to do anything significant or have a real role, is another. So that's why I say place it on Thessia and have the arc centered around something happening there among the Asari.

Then, just as in LotSB, you can run around various places and Liara would talk to you about them and such like that, intermissions between missions where you talk to Liara more and get chances to flesh out your romance more, maybe a chance to discuss what you and Liara would do after the war, because seeing Thessia up close is making her think about it, think about her home and a home away from the war.

And this is pure personal preference here, but I'd also love a locale similar to Liara's apartment - a chance to explore a Thessian home. Hell, I'd like it if after you beat it, you (and/or Liara) gained a home (base) on Thessia that you could return to just as a break. Could be similar to the place you get after clearing Pinnacle station in ME1, except more Asari design, obviously.

I would so love all of that, the base in particular is a nice touch, though it would have to happend fairly early in the game if you want a place to relax since thessia is not exactly a vecation sport with Reapers destorying everything.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

TheMarshal wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

As a writer I would like to ask you what made said Shepard become a Mary-Sue?

Just want to know how people feel that a character is a Mary-Sue.

It's not just one thing that she did.  It was a great many things.  Like the fact that she was able to kill that shark using only her biotics.  Or how she managed to learn the asari dialect because of the trauma at the beginning of the story.  Or how even when she got so angry that she lost control and struck Ash that she still had the wherewithall to not hurt her too badly.  Real people don't have everything go right for them.  You can get away with a lot, especially in fanfiction.  But... you gotta give them limits.

Shepard fights a shark with her biotics? Oh my!

But that does sound Sui-ish, especially the part with the asari dialect.

[Aristobulus500]

I gave up reading that "Rising from the Ashes" story at about the end of just the first section - where Liara is keeping Shepard alive, and Ashley leaves the medbay and is talking to the rest of the squad.

I'll say this, I like the idea of Liara being able to use the Joining to work as life support for Shepard. But what bugged me into closing it was...the voices afterwards. the Mary-Sueism showed itself in Ashley very quickly rejecting her space racist ways, and this is before ME2 is even supposed to have happened, so it's not even like ME3 yet or anything!

So that's one thing out of character, but then beyond that...the tipping point was when Joker asked about the process Liara was using and Garrus of all people started acting like an Asari encyclopedia and even a journal of what Liara/Shep had done. It was just too much - I realized then that character voices were all off and the author fell victim to the same trap a lot of authors did and haven't given the characters their own proper voices, they were, lots of times, all just the authors voice with occasionally a special accent thrown in and that's it.

I assume these kinds of flaws go on throughout.

[Akernis]

TheMarshal wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

As a writer I would like to ask you what made said Shepard become a Mary-Sue?

Just want to know how people feel that a character is a Mary-Sue.

It's not just one thing that she did.  It was a great many things.  Like the fact that she was able to kill that shark using only her biotics.  Or how she managed to learn the asari dialect because of the trauma at the beginning of the story.  Or how even when she got so angry that she lost control and struck Ash that she still had the wherewithall to not hurt her too badly.  Real people don't have everything go right for them.  You can get away with a lot, especially in fanfiction.  But... you gotta give them limits.

I can see most of that.

TheMarshal wrote...
Like the fact that she was able to kill that shark using only her biotics.  

Except this one, I would assume that that is fairly easy. Shepard can easily kill with biotics, In fact I make a point of using my guns in ME 2 & 3 as little as possible and nearly only kill with biotics.

Modifié par Akernis, 24 mai 2012 - 09:11 .

[lillitheris]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

But I like the concept. Another LotSB would be perfect - more action, but I'd like it centered around Thessia somehow, instead of Illium this time, you're doing something on Thessia with Liara. Personally, I'd want the mission to have something to do with her Shadow Broker powers and really give Liara a chance to shine and show herself as competent - so much of the game she's overshadowed by ****ing Traynor.

Hey now, Liara did an awesome job feeding all this info to Sam as though she found it all by herself! Even you were fooled :happy:

[Aristobulus500]

Also, the story suffers from everyone fawning over Shepard. There's lots of interesting potential in Ashley still clinging to her space racist ways and despite respecting Shepard, hating that she's fallen for an Asari. There's all kinds of interesting conflicts you could have with Ashley still being space racist and the fights that would cause between her, Liara, and Shepard, and even then you can use that for some growth and development in Shep/Liara's relationship as they have to learn to accept that not everyone is going to understand and agree with them, even fellow squadmates.

By having Ashley just turn good and like them, all that potential is lost. It's because the author doesn't want to actually challenge his own special Shepard.

[CrazyGreggy]

Aristobulus500 wrote...
So that's one thing out of character, but then beyond that...the tipping point was when Joker asked about the process Liara was using and Garrus of all people started acting like an Asari encyclopedia and even a journal of what Liara/Shep had done. It was just too much - I realized then that character voices were all off and the author fell victim to the same trap a lot of authors did and haven't given the characters their own proper voices, they were, lots of times, all just the authors voice with occasionally a special accent thrown in and that's it.

Exactly what put me off. Massive exposition from the wrong character.

Along with bad spelling and grammar. I can forgive some things, but those faults and random massively racist nurse as part of the Normandy crew after the Sovereign fight? Pretty sure that nurse would either a) have learned the same lessons as Ashley or been booted the hell off the Normandy by then.

[Aristobulus500]

Naw, I can accept that there are staff members on the ship that harbor racist views against aliens, especially since it's an Alliance ship and only very recently took on alien members.

I can even accept that some of them would be under Shepard - because they know how to keep their mouth shut. The nurse is letting herself mouth off around someone who should agree with her - she's not directly attacking Liara or Shepard, it's likely that around them she'd keep it to herself.

So that's fine - I mean as long as those racists keep their thoughts to themselves and do their jobs, Shepard might never even know they are racist and have a problem with the aliens, and especially with her romancing one.

What gets me is just how quickly the author randomly had Ashley disagree with the Nurse and such - it made it painfully clear that the nurse only existed just to show how different Ashley was because of the influence Shepard had on her, not even Liara.

Instead that scene should've been used for Ashley to vent some of her own problems and feelings and hint towards Ashley still not trusting and liking Liara/Shep, even if she respects them - show some conflict and development, and this would also have the benefit of Ashley keeping a unique voice and character - instead by changing, she loses her voice and is again just another voice of the author.

[TrulyInnovative]

Yeah, I remember now why I gave up on "Rising from the Ashes". To be honest, I decided after about ten lines that the fic was not for me, and from the comments here, it sounds like there's not much hope of the fic improving a lot. Well, on the next one.

[Barquiel]

MidnightRaith wrote...

There is Rising from the Ashes by Elizabeth Carter. It's a whopping 400k words long though. I liked it okay, but Shepard gets a little too asari for my tastes. Other than that, it's a pretty good fic.

I liked the story (some chapters more than others of course...and I haven't read the latest chapters yet). Only Ashley was a bit too OOC for me...

[MidnightRaith]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

This is a big problem with fanfic authors, especially when they write a story about their Shepard. They are too attached, and they can't write in any flaws or anything.

That doesn't mean they have to go all grimdark downer, but their Shepard basically being Goku is also just obnoxious, too. Especially if they have all the characters in the story do nothing but fawn over Shepard and no equality is shown in the relationships.

I haven't read much of the story though, can you give me some examples of what you meant, that happens in the story? Spoil it for me if you have to.

This is actually one of the reasons I decided to write my fic from Liara's POV. She's an established character, there is only so much I can do with her, and that's actually a good thing. An important thing about writing is knowing your strengths while setting limits to yourself. I'm better at characterization than description writing, thus I take advantage of that and do very little of the latter. However, the thing about Shepard is that there are very few limits to her that I can take advantage of. They are literally set by each individual player and sometimes, some players can't set these limits. With Liara, if I mess something up, I have fans that will tell me, "Hey, that's not how Liara acts, fix it." (Hopefully.)

Limits are fun, they challenge you. Sometimes it's better to write in the box, rather than tear the whole thing open.

[TheMarshal]

Akernis wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...
Like the fact that she was able to kill that shark using only her biotics.  

Except this one, I would assume that that is fairly easy. Shepard can easily kill with biotics, In fact I make a point of using my guns in ME 2 & 3 as little as possible and nearly only kill with biotics.

Except that this is supposed to be like the Kalros of sharks.  And she's gotta do it underwater with little to no assistance.  I get that biotics can do a lot of damage, but after a certain point...

It's like watching someone play a game on god-mode.  Sure it's fun for a while, watching everything get turned to giblets.  But after a certain point it just becomes dull.

[MrStoob]

Makrys wrote...

MrStoob wrote...

@Makrys: probably too awestruck by Liara to digest the post haha.

Hehe you mean awestruck by this?

 

Yes lol.

[Akernis]

TheMarshal wrote...

Akernis wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...
Like the fact that she was able to kill that shark using only her biotics.  

Except this one, I would assume that that is fairly easy. Shepard can easily kill with biotics, In fact I make a point of using my guns in ME 2 & 3 as little as possible and nearly only kill with biotics.

Except that this is supposed to be like the Kalros of sharks.  And she's gotta do it underwater with little to no assistance.  I get that biotics can do a lot of damage, but after a certain point...

It's like watching someone play a game on god-mode.  Sure it's fun for a while, watching everything get turned to giblets.  But after a certain point it just becomes dull.

Okay I can see where you are coming from, biotics are a fun and powerful weapon but they are not an "I win" button. And in the hands of an invincible character... not fun at all.

[TheMarshal]

Akernis wrote...

Okay I can see where you are coming from, biotics are a fun and powerful weapon but they are not an "I win" button. And in the hands of an invincible character... not fun at all.

I don't know if you're reading the Marauder Shields comics (You should.  everyone should), but right now Jack is on a biotic rampage.  She's demolishing everything in her path and it's to the point where it's caught the attention of the Sovereign-class Reapers.  That is an amazing thing to behold, and very satisfying.  Two things keep it interesting.  One: I know it's not going to last.  She's either going to get taken out by something big or burn herself out.  And two: it took a major event to get her to that point.  There's a term for that trope, but I can't seem to find it right now.

[Akernis]

TheMarshal wrote...

Akernis wrote...

Okay I can see where you are coming from, biotics are a fun and powerful weapon but they are not an "I win" button. And in the hands of an invincible character... not fun at all.

I don't know if you're reading the Marauder Shields comics (You should.  everyone should), but right now Jack is on a biotic rampage.  She's demolishing everything in her path and it's to the point where it's caught the attention of the Sovereign-class Reapers.  That is an amazing thing to behold, and very satisfying.  Two things keep it interesting.  One: I know it's not going to last.  She's either going to get taken out by something big or burn herself out.  And two: it took a major event to get her to that point.  There's a term for that trope, but I can't seem to find it right now.

I do and love it .

I assume you mean Berserk Button?

[Yuqi]

Lol, Lol.

This happened on Kaidan playthrough, lol a Kaidan romance playthrough is painful IMO.

But liara says it best: Link

Modifié par Yuqi, 24 mai 2012 - 09:56 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Yuqi wrote...

Lol, Lol.

This happened on Kaidan playthrough, lol a Kaidan romance playthrough is painful IMO.

But liara says it best: Link

Ha! That was pretty funny!

Kaidan is still one of my favorite characters though.

[Arcataye]

I really, really like the fanfic discussion going on.
I'm trying to write a really short one, you guys with 400 words an hour would've finished it last month already!

I found some random guide with 184 tips to fanfic writing. Interesting stuff.

Writer's block prevention tip was actually pretty funny:

Stop writing each day in the middle of a sentence. This accomplishes three things: it provides a leg up on the next day's work, it encourages new ideas as you think about how to finish the sentence, and it drives you crazy because you left something undone. The last point is the most effective. By the time you begin your next writing session your skin will be crawling with eagerness to finish that sentence.

Modifié par Arcataye, 24 mai 2012 - 10:01 .

[TheMarshal]

Arcataye wrote...

I really, really like the fanfic discussion going on.
I'm trying to write a really short one, you guys with 400 words an hour would've finished it last month already!

I found some random guide with 184 tips to fanfic writing. Interesting stuff.

Writer's block prevention tip was actually pretty funny:

Stop writing each day in the middle of a sentence. This accomplishes three things: it provides a leg up on the next day's work, it encourages new ideas as you think about how to finish the sentence, and it drives you crazy because you left something undone. The last point is the most effective. By the time you begin your next writing session your skin will be crawling with eagerness to finish that sentence.

I actually took a writing class last year, and that was one of the best pieces of advice I was given.  There is nothing more condusive to writer's block than having to start a brand new thought as your first task of the day.

[Arcataye]

Yuqi wrote...

Lol, Lol.
This happened on Kaidan playthrough, lol a Kaidan romance playthrough is painful IMO.
But liara says it best: Link

[lillitheris]

Arcataye wrote...

Writer's block prevention tip was actually pretty funny:

Stop writing each day in the middle of a sentence. This accomplishes three things: it provides a leg up on the next day's work, it encourages new ideas as you think about how to finish the sentence, and it drives you crazy because you left something undone. The last point is the most effective. By the time you begin your next writing session your skin will be crawling with eagerness to finish that sentence.

This actually works really well for programming, haven’t tried for writing. Each day, rather than quit with everything done, I start on some easy problem for the next day, and leave it in the initial phases. That way it’s easy to get the ball rolling the next day.


Edit: dammit, I’m on top again? Rawrr


weissidian @dA

Modifié par lillitheris, 24 mai 2012 - 10:08 .

[PMC65]

Tyranniac wrote...

 

hoodie_gypsy wrote...

Oh, and PMC65, I may not be able to force you to update your story, but what I can do is threaten to give the fine members of this thread more ammunition made of your personal kryptonite. You know - the small blue kind. Fair warning.

*kidnaps PMC65 to prevent updating of story*

Can... can we have another baby now? :innocent:

*hides under table with doozer, drinking whiskey and typing like crazy on laptop*