56460 réponses à ce sujet

[Icyflare]

Icyflare says...

Sometimes, I find it very difficult to capture a character's voice or action, simply because I have an an idea of what I'd like a character to do in a certain situation but not a clear grasp of what they'd actually do. What kinds of tricks do you guys use to get around this block? Also, how do you guys plot your own stories? Personally, when I write something, no matter how hard I plan it out, the story gets away from me until it's a complete divergence from what I originally wanted. Any tips to share?

Thanks to those who answered my question. I don't mind the length. Makes interesting reading Now, that I think of it, writer's block is probably what what I'm actually experiencing, and that's a completely different issue.


I don't understand haters though. Do they genuinely hate Liara, or are they more miffed at how Bioware chose to purpose the her character within the game design structure?

Modifié par Icyflare, 25 mai 2012 - 05:27 .

[Aristobulus500]

So I give you all this evidence to the contrary of what you're stating, and you essentially just go "NUH UH!"

Right, then. I think we're done here.

I don't understand haters though. Do they genuinely hate Liara, or are they more miffed at how Bioware chose to purpose the her character within the game design structure?

It's a bit of both. Some of them are just angry and lashing out at whatever they can, and Liara is an easy target because she gets lots of screen time and you can't kill her until the end.

They aren't actually trying to improve the game or anything, just vent and relieve some frustrations they have, especially because of the ending which poisoned everything and made people so angry they just want to tear the game apart.

[Icyflare]

Actually, even if you're romancing her, she's still takes up a lot of your screen time, but when you visit her in her room, the things she says to your character definitely falls flat in the romantic department. I can't count the amount of time I nearly tore out my hair at how many times I heard "Thanks for dropping by, Shepard," or "Good to see you again".

Modifié par Icyflare, 25 mai 2012 - 05:36 .

[Aristobulus500]

Icyflare wrote...

Actually, even if you're romancing her, she's still takes up a lot of your screen time, but when you visit her in her room, the things she says to your character definitely falls flat in the romantic department. I can't count the amount of time I nearly out my hair at "Thanks for dropping by, Shepard," or "Good to see you again". At least Garrus has more plot-related conversations.

Yeah, this is a very good point. There's a huge stretch in the mid game straight through to the end game where Liara gets nothing - maybe a few autodialogue lines that Shepard might not even respond to - and during this same stretch, you can go talk to Garrus and get full on dialogue wheel conversations.

Oh, and of course the Citadel scenes where Garrus gets the best one by far and Liara's has her acting like you and her are just friends, for like the 3rd or 4th time.

Modifié par Aristobulus500, 25 mai 2012 - 05:48 .

[kyg_20X6]

Logan Cloud wrote...

All I'm saying is that someone who didn't romance her, has a much better case in complaining than someone who did romance her. She's obviously Bioware's favorite, and it shows throughout the game. If you wanted to, you could look at my post from earlier and look at it as Bioware manipulating me to choose the romance they liked the most.

I doubt she is BW's favourite. Maybe one of their favourite characters (SB might show this), but I don't think they're trying to push her as LI on the player. I think the position she has in ME3 (surives the whole series) is just a biproduct of certain decisions BW took. 

In ME1, only Ashley/Kaiden/Wrex could be killed off. Liara surived the same as did Garrus & Tali.

In ME2, Garrus & Tali were brought back by popular demand (and so people could romance them now). Due to the nature of the suicide mission, these characters could now be killed off. Liara, being the other ME1 LI, has to share the same fate as the VS and can't come on the mission.

In ME3, due to the above choices, she is the only character that is available in everyone's game that has been there from the start. It is possible for someone to have an ME3 squad only consisting of: Liara, EDI, Vega, Javik (DLC) and VS (killable again in ME3). It is unreasonable to expect BW to have alternate versions of Liara's scenes where she is replaced by VS/Garrus/Tali. Who else to be Shepard's confidant than her long time friend, and now SB, Liara (one of the empathetic characters in the series)? Especially given the crisis they're in? Especially given she finds the Crucible? Joker? EDI? Adams?

And I find it ridiculous how people think a scene where Liara comes to relay some information, sees Shepard's upset and enquires about it, as 'oh, she wants to get in my pants!' Or, making a VI in-case they fail and wanting Shepard's input, 'oh, she wants to get in my pants!'. Or the scene where she shares a memory with you, as 'friends'. She says 'friends' a lot (which is what bugs quite a few of us who romanced her). I've played through with various romances and never ONCE had the thought that Liara was doing anything a close friend wouldn't do. Seems people have a hard time distinguishing an intimate friendship (which many other characters share with Shepard) and an intimate romance.

[Yoshiyuki Ly]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Icyflare wrote...

Actually, even if you're romancing her, she's still takes up a lot of your screen time, but when you visit her in her room, the things she says to your character definitely falls flat in the romantic department. I can't count the amount of time I nearly out my hair at "Thanks for dropping by, Shepard," or "Good to see you again". At least Garrus has more plot-related conversations.

Yeah, this is a very good point. There's a huge stretch in the mid game straight through to the end game where Liara gets nothing - maybe a few autodialogue lines that Shepard might not even respond to - and during this same stretch, you can go talk to Garrus and get full on dialogue wheel conversations.

Oh, and of course the Citadel scenes where Garrus gets the best one by far and Liara's has her acting like you and her are just friends, for like the 3rd or 4th time.

I felt like her Citadel "date" fit her character. Shepard even asks if Liara wants to do something a little more exciting. Liara's so sentimental to me that of course she'd just want to stand somewhere nice and talk. She's always glued to that SB network of hers, so it was a nice scene for me. What bothers me is that if you start a romance with her in the third game, the scene at the end will show her and Shepard kissing. If you've stayed loyal to her, no, it fades to black without showing the kiss. The hell?

[Aristobulus500]

Logan Cloud wrote...

It's not that I don't like Lia. I wouldn't be here if I didn't. And I love the screen time she gets. And I even understand that she's the only character that's always been there.

It's the attention to detail which makes her come off as an obvious favorite. Most people in here (no offense) disagree because you like Liara tremendously, so your opinion comes off as biased.

Last thing I'll say here, Logan. We don't have to be enemies here. You're just approaching this the wrong way. You're trying to get me to sit down and shut up and accept the garbage I was fed because you maybe had it worse. I will not do this.

But as I said earlier, all of us got shafted. I'm not trying to turn the tables on you and say you should be happy with what you got, either! You shouldn't!

I will stand right beside you and preach how lousy the treatment is of the Ashley romance, or the Kaidan romance, or Miranda or anything, because it's all true - and I can do this even though Liara is my favorite romance and character. Bioware ****ed us all in this department - all of the romances are severely lacking and have incredible flaws in them. The ME2 romances are basically forgotten, Kaidan and Ashley are basically the same character and stop doing really anything of note once you actually bring them on board the Normandy, same for Tali.

But those flaws don't mean Liara's romance was amazing and well done. You shouldn't be attacking me, or any Liara fans, and trying to get us to accept what we got.

[IliyaMoroumetz]

Logan; you're flame baiting. Stop it.

Furthermore, no more character bashing (no matter whom it is) from any of you. It's not cool and it makes you look like you're trying to win an elementary schoolyard pissing contest.

We're supposed to be better than this.

[Aristobulus500]

My LI could beat up your LI, Iliya.

[kyg_20X6]

Logan Cloud wrote...

It's not that I don't like Lia. I wouldn't be here if I didn't. And I love the screen time she gets. And I even understand that she's the only character that's always been there.

It's the attention to detail which makes her come off as an obvious favorite. Most people in here (no offense) disagree because you like Liara tremendously, so your opinion comes off as biased.

Yes, Liara is my favourite. But I also loved romancing Tali, Jack and Miranda. And I can still totally understand why Liara is how she is, and why the other romances are as they are. Changing Liara's role wouldn't make the others any more prominant. BW would probably need to include another disc (or two) to please everyone. Any problems I have with other romances aren't caused by Liara's prominance, but by BW's writing or technical restraints (e.g. no romance scene for Jack, Jack doesn't reciprocate 'I love you', we don't see Tali's face outside the picture, etc).

Modifié par kyg_20X6, 25 mai 2012 - 06:04 .

[Aristobulus500]

Logan Cloud wrote...

And I'm not saying I had it worse. I romanced Liara. I have a song about Liara on my iPod, and it's one of my top played. I have fan art of Liara that I've drawn, and I'm basing a character in my story largely on her. I'm saying that everyone DID get shafted, but we're quite a bit more lucky than most of the others. ESPECIALLY the ME2 romances.

I never said we all had to accept what we got. I simply said, we got it better.

So what?

Here's what you are missing - even if you are right, and Liara got it the best, she still didn't get it good. Being the "luckiest" is really damn irrelevant when you're still in an awful situation.

What is your goal here? It's really pointless to even point that out, because it's not like all of the flaws with Liara's romance magically disappear as soon as someone says "well you know what Liara has it better than the other LI's" they are still very much there!

It's like you want us to stop complaining about the flaws. It's like - those people that would rather attack Liara and Liara fans and tear the game down and simply remove Liara's content from the game rather than try to get Bioware to add content with their respective LI's.

Like if Bioware straight up asked them "Okay, we can either remove some of Liara's scenes from the game, or add scenes with your LI" they would choose to remove Liara's scenes.

Seriously, gonna repeat this - what is the point of your argument? What would you have us do, even if we agreed?

[kyg_20X6]

Logan Cloud wrote...

And I'm not saying I had it worse. I romanced Liara. I have a song about Liara on my iPod, and it's one of my top played. I have fan art of Liara that I've drawn, and I'm basing a character in my story largely on her. I'm saying that everyone DID get shafted, but we're quite a bit more lucky than most of the others. ESPECIALLY the ME2 romances.

Yes, but complaining about someone that was 'more lucky', and/or wishing they weren't, is envious and spiteful. Especially when there are logical reasons for that 'luck'. It's like wishing a disease you have on someone just because they don't. Energy would be better spent complaining to BW and asking for more content for other characters, rather than bashing Liara (here I don't mean you specifically, but all those threads that pop-up daily).

[coatsworth]

 This explains why i chose Liara but I did choose Ash,tali,jack,maranda as well.
https://encrypted-tb...Tmx_ZZM0PH3QObA

[EsterCloat]

(Gah, what the hell am I doing?)

Hello fellow Liara fans! I have written a story! Yay!

Well, sort of. It's only a prologue for now, setting up the story proper. I plan on making it Shep/Liara but I actually don't plan on having the events of the Mass Effect series happen for some time, the first arc of the story instead focusing on Shepard on Earth as he eventually becomes a soldier and grows into the person he'll be in the ME games.

Anyway, here it is: Mass Effect: To the Stars.

Hopefully I don't procrastinate about adding more chapters.

[Makrys]

Yoshiyuki Ly wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Icyflare wrote...

Actually, even if you're romancing her, she's still takes up a lot of your screen time, but when you visit her in her room, the things she says to your character definitely falls flat in the romantic department. I can't count the amount of time I nearly out my hair at "Thanks for dropping by, Shepard," or "Good to see you again". At least Garrus has more plot-related conversations.

Yeah, this is a very good point. There's a huge stretch in the mid game straight through to the end game where Liara gets nothing - maybe a few autodialogue lines that Shepard might not even respond to - and during this same stretch, you can go talk to Garrus and get full on dialogue wheel conversations.

Oh, and of course the Citadel scenes where Garrus gets the best one by far and Liara's has her acting like you and her are just friends, for like the 3rd or 4th time.

I felt like her Citadel "date" fit her character. Shepard even asks if Liara wants to do something a little more exciting. Liara's so sentimental to me that of course she'd just want to stand somewhere nice and talk. She's always glued to that SB network of hers, so it was a nice scene for me. What bothers me is that if you start a romance with her in the third game, the scene at the end will show her and Shepard kissing. If you've stayed loyal to her, no, it fades to black without showing the kiss. The hell?

Wait... what? Can you post a link? She's been my romance from the beginning and I'm pretty sure the scene I saw had them kiss, but then the screen pulled away. I KNOW they kissed. But it also faded to white pretty quickly. You're saying its a longer scene if you just romanced her in ME3? Please, link.

[Aristobulus500]

I didn't accuse you of trolling, for what it's worth.

And maybe I have read you wrong. But it's a bit of a delicate subject because of - well, just look at all the Liara hate threads absolutely everywhere else. I'm tired of dealing with it, and I'm tired of people thinking Liaramancers are Bioware's preferred fans and thinking that Liaramancers have it perfect.

I'm tired of all the hatred and spite, especially since so much of it is just unfounded, and I react really harshly to it, in turn. Or what I perceive as it.

Also - maybe you just wanted to post an opinion and be done with it. If so, that's just a misunderstanding of your intentions on my part and a disconnect - when I post something, it's always with the intentions and hopes of starting or continuing a discussion. I WANT fleshed out, in depth discussions to happen, I'm always rather disappointed when I post something and there is no discussion at all, so I assumed you were trying to do the same.

At any rate, perhaps we should just move on from this, if we both understand eachother better now. You don't need to feel like you aren't allowed to post here - just wait for another discussion to start up, and join in on that. Or change the subject yourself and start up a new topic of discussion.

[EsterCloat]

Makrys wrote...

Wait... what? Can you post a link? She's been my romance from the beginning and I'm pretty sure the scene I saw had them kiss, but then the screen pulled away. I KNOW they kissed. But it also faded to white pretty quickly. You're saying its a longer scene if you just romanced her in ME3? Please, link.

I believe it might be the length of the kiss animations that causes it. There's actually two animations from what I can tell. The one we get where they get close to each other and Liara wraps her arm around Shep's waist and then a second one for new romances where they only kinda lean in and give a quick peck to each other. The second one is shorter and thus you see the quick kiss and pull away whereas I think with the first one we only see the build up before it fades away.

Here's the link of the new romance version, towards the end.

Modifié par EsterCloat, 25 mai 2012 - 06:39 .

[PMC65]

Hiya Logan Cloud!

This reminds me of the time that I was called a "troll" in the Liara ME2 thread when I shared my views on her not being as "innocent" as others were saying.

I'd give you a shot of tequila but last time I tried sharing my screen fizzled out.

Don't worry ... I know you are not a troll. But can I say that Garrus gets just as much .. if not more time and yet where are those complaints? People just hate Liara ... especially on the Kaidan thread. And I love both characters.

Well, I better drink that shot myself so it doesn't go to waste. 

EDIT: Top

Modifié par PMC65, 25 mai 2012 - 06:44 .

[rubynorman]

Makrys wrote...

Yoshiyuki Ly wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Icyflare wrote...

Actually, even if you're romancing her, she's still takes up a lot of your screen time, but when you visit her in her room, the things she says to your character definitely falls flat in the romantic department. I can't count the amount of time I nearly out my hair at "Thanks for dropping by, Shepard," or "Good to see you again". At least Garrus has more plot-related conversations.

Yeah, this is a very good point. There's a huge stretch in the mid game straight through to the end game where Liara gets nothing - maybe a few autodialogue lines that Shepard might not even respond to - and during this same stretch, you can go talk to Garrus and get full on dialogue wheel conversations.

Oh, and of course the Citadel scenes where Garrus gets the best one by far and Liara's has her acting like you and her are just friends, for like the 3rd or 4th time.

I felt like her Citadel "date" fit her character. Shepard even asks if Liara wants to do something a little more exciting. Liara's so sentimental to me that of course she'd just want to stand somewhere nice and talk. She's always glued to that SB network of hers, so it was a nice scene for me. What bothers me is that if you start a romance with her in the third game, the scene at the end will show her and Shepard kissing. If you've stayed loyal to her, no, it fades to black without showing the kiss. The hell?

Wait... what? Can you post a link? She's been my romance from the beginning and I'm pretty sure the scene I saw had them kiss, but then the screen pulled away. I KNOW they kissed. But it also faded to white pretty quickly. You're saying its a longer scene if you just romanced her in ME3? Please, link.

New romance in ME3
www.youtube.com/watch
Liara's Date (Romanced)

www.youtube.com/watch
EDIT: :ph34r:ed


Whee! by ~Lilaaku

Modifié par rubynorman, 25 mai 2012 - 06:47 .