56461 réponses à ce sujet

[MidnightRaith]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

I don't intend to, and it's why I've more buried myself in fanworks, recently. Why I came to this forum only after ME3 and never during ME2.

I've always read fanworks in pretty much any IP that I enjoy, however I didn't enjoy the BSN before ME3 came out. Particularly the GD and S&C forums. They've always been pretty bad there. Too many trolls and people that loved to shove how much the knew of astrophysics in your face. I still don't like it there much, to be honest. I was actually very close to giving up on BSN a second time until I found this thread. Filled with great people and discussions. I think it sets an example of how the rest of BSN could be, but isn't.

[DOsquareZER]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Nharia1 wrote...
most of us have even moved on from the whole ME series entirely...

This is not actually a good thing, and it's rather telling that you include this in a list meant to sway us to the side of thinking such a thread is a good, pleasant place. It points to how absolutely poisonous the endings were, and why I'm so frustrated and burned by it all. ME was never something I wanted to, or expected to, need to move on from quite like this.

I don't intend to, and it's why I've more buried myself in fanworks, recently. Why I came to this forum only after ME3 and never during ME2.

ME deserves better than people just moving on though - it had massive potential to be better then it's prequels - with same amount of replayability value, ME1 was friggan amazing - I dont get attached easily but ME1 did it, ME2 was...eh, graphics were better, but 3...*shakes fists* it really felt like it's ''creators'' got bored with it towards the end of this series.  It was supposed to be great, Im sick of writers/forum members claiming we placed the bar too high (which im pretty sure i didn't - but i apparently dont know myself or art as well as BW does) but seriously...what did they expect?  How many of them go through it now and go "we could have done better" instead of "ITS ART!  DONT TOUCH IT! Deal with it." like theyre claiming in all these pathetic PR displays.  Just sucks they didn't give this game the proper send off ti deserved - itll be remembered for the horridness of its endings and plot betrayals, not the awesome greatness of it's immersive lore, story, characters, etc... bad things tend to dominate like that... but oh well i guess.  Something positive - ill always remember tuchunka, Liara's final romance, the god awesome soundtracks of all 3 games, and LotSB...

Modifié par doozer12, 26 mai 2012 - 06:01 .

[kyg_20X6]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

This is not actually a good thing, and it's rather telling that you include this in a list meant to sway us to the side of thinking such a thread is a good, pleasant place. It points to how absolutely poisonous the endings were, and why I'm so frustrated and burned by it all. ME was never something I wanted to, or expected to, need to move on from quite like this.

I don't intend to, and it's why I've more buried myself in fanworks, recently. Why I came to this forum only after ME3 and never during ME2.

+1

My disappointment and anger with the endings is in proportion to my love of the universe/characters. I want to be able to enjoy the series again. I'm hoping the EC will allow that.

I really want to replay my FemShep/Liara through ME1,2,3 again (maybe some of my other Sheps too) but it's really contingent on the EC. The ending of the journey is so important. Sort of reminds me of the Titanic (although the crithaca the Titanic didn't choose to crash into the iceberg, thinking the passengers would love it).

Conversesly, (given it's a second chance based on loads of feedback) if the EC doesn't deliver I'm not sure what I'll do. I might trade in my ME games. I know, at least, I wont be purchasing any more ME content and will be very wary of getting invested in another BW game. Which is interesting, since it'd be the total opposite if it does deliver.

Quite the difference.

Modifié par kyg_20X6, 26 mai 2012 - 06:00 .

[lillitheris]

Re: fanfic stuff, I made a Fanfic Writer Support Group thread. You know, because.

[IliyaMoroumetz]

Wait, does that Ali Hillis tumblr pic from the previous page mean what I think it means?

[MidnightRaith]

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

Wait, does that Ali Hillis tumblr pic from the previous page mean what I think it means?

What do you think it means?

[IliyaMoroumetz]

MidnightRaith wrote...

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

Wait, does that Ali Hillis tumblr pic from the previous page mean what I think it means?

What do you think it means?

That she, unfortunately, has to miss the trip to London to head back to record more stuff for the EC ending, which might not be a bad thing.  I'm being cautiously optimistic here.

[kyg_20X6]

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

Wait, does that Ali Hillis tumblr pic from the previous page mean what I think it means?

She was meant to go to some expo in Oct. She can't. Sbarge and Brooks going instead. That's it.

EDIT: It's possible she's recording more dialogue but it is reaching if trying to draw that conclusion from that post. We already know she's recording dialogue, since Kaiden/Ashley/others have. It could be for a future DLC but it could also be for a movie, cartoon or another game.

Modifié par kyg_20X6, 26 mai 2012 - 07:35 .

[Aristobulus500]

I don't have any doubts at this point that all of the major VA's will be brought back to record more lines. It's just a question of what lines they are being asked to record.

Like, there is no part of me that thinks Liara won't have more lines.

[Theodoro]

doozer12 wrote...
ME deserves better than people just moving on though - it had massive potential to be better then it's prequels - with same amount of replayability value, ME1 was friggan amazing - I dont get attached easily but ME1 did it, ME2 was...eh, graphics were better, but 3...*shakes fists* it really felt like it's ''creators'' got bored with it towards the end of this series.  It was supposed to be great, Im sick of writers/forum members claiming we placed the bar too high (which im pretty sure i didn't - but i apparently dont know myself or art as well as BW does) but seriously...what did they expect?  How many of them go through it now and go "we could have done better" instead of "ITS ART!  DONT TOUCH IT! Deal with it." like theyre claiming in all these pathetic PR displays.  Just sucks they didn't give this game the proper send off ti deserved - itll be remembered for the horridness of its endings and plot betrayals, not the awesome greatness of it's immersive lore, story, characters, etc... bad things tend to dominate like that... but oh well i guess.  Something positive - ill always remember tuchunka, Liara's final romance, the god awesome soundtracks of all 3 games, and LotSB...

I can't agree with you more - it's like the writers lost the passion they had for the series. You can definitely just notice it in Mass Effect 1 and 2 - and it's hidden in all the little things, all the details that they pay attention to while they create the game - and it's these things that will makes us want to play the series over and over again. Same goes for the actual missions - it's apparent that they've spent a ton of time trying to get the Suicide Mission and all its variables to work properly.

In ME3, we see that only in a few instances, and never after Cronos Station. Everything about Priority: Earth and the ending(s) screams 'rushed'. Even the goodbyes - some of them were done well, but the ones via the hologram deserved much more, I reckon. The writers simply didn't make the same effort they did before - and it's exactly where they should have done so, since it's the end of a trilogy. It was supposed to be epic and it wasn't nowhere close to that. So yes, remembering the good things about Mass Effect prevents me from moving on - the whole of ME1, most of ME2, especially the Suicide Mission and LotSB, Tuchanka in ME3, Liara, Garrus, and as you said, the awesome soundtracks.

kyg_20X6 wrote...
My disappointment and anger with the endings is in proportion to my love of the universe/characters. I want to be able to enjoy the series again. I'm hoping the EC will allow that.

Exactly how I feel. In ME1 and ME2, I never had to force myself to like anything since nearly everything was sublime. With most of ME3, however, I think that I'm trying to like it for the sake of the whole trilogy. There are very few things in ME3 I genuinely enjoyed as much as I did in ME1 and ME2. Hope that the EC will do something about the ending that will make it sting less.

Modifié par Theodoro, 26 mai 2012 - 08:04 .

[Tyranniac]

 Oh come on! We've already established that the ending sucks. Can't we just wait and see what the EC is like and stop trying to outdepress each other? And am I the only one that actually liked ME3? Sure, it is rushed, but it's still way better than most other games I've ever played.

[MidnightRaith]

Tyranniac wrote...

 Oh come on! We've already established that the ending sucks. Can't we just wait and see what the EC is like and stop trying to outdepress each other? And am I the only one that actually liked ME3? Sure, it is rushed, but it's still way better than most other games I've ever played.

That's what makes the ending so painful. That we literally cannot help but talk about them.... It's a good thing the EC is coming. Hopefully it will fix the ending. Otherwise, the above on this page is what people will remember and that is a legacy that Mass Effect does not deserve.

[Theodoro]

Tyranniac wrote...
 Oh come on! We've already established that the ending sucks. Can't we just wait and see what the EC is like and stop trying to outdepress each other? And am I the only one that actually liked ME3? Sure, it is rushed, but it's still way better than most other games I've ever played.

Well, the problem is that I personally don't look at other games when I play Mass Effect - it's an incredible trilogy that, in my opinion, deserves a much better final chapter than the one it has now. Mass Effect has always been another category of video games for me - way ahead of any other, and it's the only one that I care so much for - the only one with such great characters, setting and story - and it's the only game that made me register in a forum for it to discuss it with others. So even though I'm sure that ME3 is better than most games out there, the fact that it's miles away from its predecessors is the real issue here, and the ending is one of the major reasons why that is so, but it's not the only one.

Modifié par Theodoro, 26 mai 2012 - 08:21 .

[MidnightRaith]

Theodoro wrote...

Well, the problem is that I personally don't look at other games when I play Mass Effect - it's an incredible trilogy that, in my opinion, deserves a much better final chapter than the one it has now. Mass Effect has always been another category of video games for me - way ahead of any other, and it's the only one that I care so much for - the only one with such great characters, setting and story - and it's the only game that made me register in a forum for it to discuss it with others. So even though I'm sure that ME3 is better than most games out there, the fact that it's miles away from its predecessors is the real issue here, and the ending is one of the major reasons why that is so, but it's not the only one.

Agree completely.

[Tyranniac]

Theodoro wrote...
Well, the problem is that I personally don't look at other games when I play Mass Effect - it's an incredible trilogy that, in my opinion, deserves a much better final chapter than the one it has now. Mass Effect has always been another category of video games for me - way ahead of any other, and it's the only one that I care so much for - the only one with such great characters, setting and story - and it's the only game that made me register in a forum for it to discuss it with others. So even though I'm sure that ME3 is better than most games out there, the fact that it's miles away from its predecessors is the real issue here, and the ending is one of the major reasons why that is so, but it's not the only one.

I'm invested in the series too, don't think I'm not. I care about the characters, the setting, the story more than any other game and I hate the ending just as much as the next person. I also know that the third game as a whole is flawed at points but it is still a pretty damn amazing experience, at least I think so, and if it wasn't for the ending I would absolutely love the whole thing, despite flaws. That doesn't mean I wouldn't love it if they fixed those things, of course.

I'm just tired of seeing so much negativity, sorry. 

[Theodoro]

Tyranniac wrote...
I'm just tired of seeing so much negativity, sorry. 

Sorry for that - sometimes I think that people just need to talk about it with others to quench the pain from it all and it usually helps. But you're right, there are other ways to do that, as well, involving Liara:

[MidnightRaith]

Tyranniac wrote...

I'm invested in the series too, don't think I'm not. I care about the characters, the setting, the story more than any other game and I hate the ending just as much as the next person. I also know that the third game as a whole is flawed at points but it is still a pretty damn amazing experience, at least I think so, and if it wasn't for the ending I would absolutely love the whole thing, despite flaws. That doesn't mean I wouldn't love it if they fixed those things, of course.

I'm just tired of seeing so much negativity, sorry. 

I don't think he intended to say that you weren't invested. Your love for this series is plain as day simply from the comments you have in this thread. 

And I get what you mean by the negativity. I feel the same with a certain, popular topic that flies around in this board, if you can guess what it is. :innocent:

But, by all means, suggest a change in topic. I'd do it, but I've got nothing right now....

[Aristobulus500]

Theodoro wrote...

Tyranniac wrote...
 Oh come on! We've already established that the ending sucks. Can't we just wait and see what the EC is like and stop trying to outdepress each other? And am I the only one that actually liked ME3? Sure, it is rushed, but it's still way better than most other games I've ever played.

Well, the problem is that I personally don't look at other games when I play Mass Effect - it's an incredible trilogy that, in my opinion, deserves a much better final chapter than the one it has now. Mass Effect has always been another category of video games for me - way ahead of any other, and it's the only one that I care so much for - the only one with such great characters, setting and story - and it's the only game that made me register in a forum for it to discuss it with others. So even though I'm sure that ME3 is better than most games out there, the fact that it's miles away from its predecessors is the real issue here, and the ending is one of the major reasons why that is so, but it's not the only one.

Right. Calling ME "Better" than other games I've played, while true, doesn't even begin to get at the heart of the issue, which is just how immersive the games and setting are. Even other games I get immersed, it's really just a story I'm seeing unfold and when it's over, I can feel satisfied, because everything was clearly set up just to tell that one story, so I don't feel like there's a lot left to do.

ME is just...sure things are set up to tell Shepard's story, but the setting is so deep that many things exist in it independent of Shepard, and it's just so fascinating. I would love to explore and learn more about the rest of the galaxy - and it's really...with other games, even if I like them a lot, there's a certain amount of detachment I can maintain, because of the presentation.

With how realistic and fleshed out the characters are in ME and the setting as a whole, with entire cultures for the races and stuff beyond what it takes just to tell Shepard's story...it goes beyond that. No other game has ever been able to do this for me, and cause me to become this attached and invested. And I really can't see it happening again. ME is pretty damn unique and special.

And the characters are, of course, a large part of that. Liara, especially. In any other game, these characters would be shallow gimmick characters, certainly not romances, and not taken seriously at all. They would always react the same way and would have no serious growth or development...but the way they act is very realistic. It's all just things that add to the immersion.

I just can't give up on a setting and universe with so much potential, and that has grabbed hold of me this strongly. I just see so much more to do in it, Shepard or no.

[Aristobulus500]

Tyranniac wrote...
I'm just tired of seeing so much negativity, sorry. 

I understand that,I'm sorry. I do miss the days of ME2, when the fanbase was filled with hope and awe at the series, and people spent their time speculating about how awesome and amazing ME3 would be and how spectacular the ending would be and all of the things you'd get to do with your LI's, and what you'd see on the various homeworlds, and what an epilogue to the series would be - how Shepard would go off and live with his LI if he survived, things like that.

You have to realize that, well, this rampant negativity...it's just going to happen when people are burned this badly. It's sad but true. It's a wound that reopens every time people think about ME, because for example, even to think on Liara as a character, is inevitably going to lead to "what I would've liked to see happen with her" which leads into "scenes they didn't write or make" which leads into "an ending I didn't get because of the ending we got" and it's all negative again.

There's just no satisfaction like people had after ME2. All the hopes and dreams are dashed, and we can't even just say "well the next game will fix things and it'll be okay" because this was the last, and not only that, not only was it the last Shepard game, but with the current endings, we'll never see another game in the same universe even. There's just no hope, and it's going to color discussions everywhere, constantly.

It's all just more evidence that the ending DLC sorely needs to be good, to renew peoples faith in the series and to raise peoples spirits, so discussions aren't always so angry and hostile and bitter, and people can be positive and friendly and discuss cool, interesting topics again instead of always just talking about how awful things were. People just need hope, again. As an example, if the ending DLC is good, and restores the series, then people can move on to discussing what more games in the setting might be about, instead of just dreary laments about what ME3 didn't have - can discuss what awesome things ME4 or such would do instead.

[MidnightRaith]

Yeah, your post is largely what makes Mass Effect my second favorite RPG of all time, Aristobolus. Only KotOR beats it out simply because that was my very first RPG and the nostalgia is very strong for me there. It also largely seems like a predecessor to ME. While the characters aren't as deep as the ones in ME, KotOR did do pretty good with them. The story was great and the ending only had a relatively simple twist, rather than one that tried too hard....

[Theodoro]

Aristobulus500 wrote...
ME is just...sure things are set up to tell Shepard's story, but the setting is so deep that many things exist in it independent of Shepard, and it's just so fascinating. I would love to explore and learn more about the rest of the galaxy - and it's really...with other games, even if I like them a lot, there's a certain amount of detachment I can maintain, because of the presentation.

And that brings us to the real issue. To make an example, a person may also be fascinated by the Star Wars setting and galaxy, and even though as a fan he may feel that the prequels are unworthy of the franchise, at least none of the movies there completely destroyed what has been presented to us before, none of them twisted the setting in such a manner ME3 did.

It's like, for Luke to kill the Emperor, he has to sacrifice the Force, faster-than-light travel, and all the droids (synthetics) - basically many of the reasons why Star Wars fans love the universe. And though I might be okay with a Mass Effect game that is not necessarily mind-blowing, I can never be fine with one that just... deforms the whole concept. And since we want to explore more of Mass Effect - the universe, characters and setting - we don't want an ending that completely prevents us from doing that or alters this universe in a way that we don't even care about it anymore.

[Tyranniac]

 

Aristobulus500 wrote...
It's all just more evidence that the ending DLC sorely needs to be good, to renew peoples faith in the series and to raise peoples spirits, so discussions aren't always so angry and hostile and bitter, and people can be positive and friendly and discuss cool, interesting topics again instead of always just talking about how awful things were. People just need hope, again. As an example, if the ending DLC is good, and restores the series, then people can move on to discussing what more games in the setting might be about, instead of just dreary laments about what ME3 didn't have - can discuss what awesome things ME4 or such would do instead.

 

That's exactly why I think we should stop discussing it until after the EC, because right now we don't know if we should be depressed or not! There is still hope!

MidnightRaith wrote...

Yeah, your post is largely what makes Mass Effect my second favorite RPG of all time, Aristobolus. Only KotOR beats it out simply because that was my very first RPG and the nostalgia is very strong for me there. It also largely seems like a predecessor to ME. While the characters aren't as deep as the ones in ME, KotOR did do pretty good with them. The story was great and the ending only had a relatively simple twist, rather than one that tried too hard....

 

KotOR! <3 It doesn't beat Mass Effect for me though. 

Theodoro wrote...

Tyranniac wrote...
I'm just tired of seeing so much negativity, sorry. 

Sorry for that - sometimes I think that people just need to talk about it with others to quench the pain from it all and it usually helps. But you're right, there are other ways to do that, as well, involving Liara:

[Theodoro]

MidnightRaith wrote...

Yeah, your post is largely what makes Mass Effect my second favorite RPG of all time, Aristobolus. Only KotOR beats it out simply because that was my very first RPG and the nostalgia is very strong for me there. It also largely seems like a predecessor to ME. While the characters aren't as deep as the ones in ME, KotOR did do pretty good with them. The story was great and the ending only had a relatively simple twist, rather than one that tried too hard....

KotOR is the first BioWare game I played and it's the one that made me a fan of the developer. Until then, I had never played a similar game that had such an impact and such a great story. And it's also my very first RPG, like you. While I also look at it with strong nostalgia, I have to say that Mass Effect completely overshadowed it - it's that great - and every time I wondered whether to begin a new KotOR playthrough, I ended up playing another Mass Effect one instead, and I didn't regret it at all. KotOR is still incredible, but I simply fell in love too much with the Mass Effect universe.

[Han Shot First]

CrimsonN7 wrote...

Maybe something similar to a Native American wedding ceremony for it's spitual element, and there is a another ritual that takes place in an Indian wedding that could work for an Asari ceremony but it has to be tweaked alittle, maybe instead of a blanket they recieve Asari bonding robes but below is the Native American blanket ceremony,

Some of the lore of the Asari seems to be based on ancient Greece, particularly the way the way that Thessia (and presumably, their colony worlds) are organized into city-states. The three stages of an Asari woman's life also seem to be based on the three stages of an woman's life, as the ancient Greeks saw it. With that in mind if the writers ever expanded upon the marriage customs of the Asari, perhaps their customs should be loosely based on ancient Greece as well?

In ancient Greece brides would be ritually bathed & dressed by their maids, and typically wore brightly colored veils of yellow or red rather than white. There would be a wedding feast & dancing involving both families, after which the bride would be led at night in a procession to the husband's home, accompanied by torch bearers, musicians, minstrels & singers. The bride would carry ivy, which symbolized eternal love. At the home there would be a brief ceremony, where IIRC they were considered married when she crossed the threshold of the door.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 26 mai 2012 - 09:06 .

[MidnightRaith]

Theodoro wrote...

KotOR is the first BioWare game I played and it's the one that made me a fan of the developer. Until then, I had never played a similar game that had such an impact and such a great story. And it's also my very first RPG, like you. While I also look at it with strong nostalgia, I have to say that Mass Effect completely overshadowed it - it's that great - and every time I wondered whether to begin a new KotOR playthrough, I ended up playing another Mass Effect one instead, and I didn't regret it at all. KotOR is still incredible, but I simply fell in love too much with the Mass Effect universe.

Don't get me wrong, ME does nearly everything better than KotOR. However, I can be very sentimental. While ME is the better product and the better universe, I owe many things to KotOR. Without it, I would not be a fan of BW, I would not even like RPGs. I was relatively young at the time of KotOR, ten or so. A bit too young to really appreciate what the RPG genre is supposed to do. However, KotOR's story was so good, that I literally spent years slowly understanding what the game was meant to do and how it was supposed to be played. If it were a different game, I probably would have dropped the genre and stuck to platformers and shooters. Took me three years before I finally beat it and then I played and beat it at least once a year ever since. I just love it that much.  ME owes my love to KotOR.