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[Obsidian Gryphon]

@PMC65, erm, is there a problem with the link? I got a blank page when I clicked on the fanfic in your sig.

[MidnightRaith]

Arcataye wrote...

MidnightRaith wrote...

I was watching the LotSB cutscenes again and I was struck by how much Liara seems to enjoy the role.
*lots of text*

I don't have much to say, but great text. You really took some time to analyze and write about it.
I too can't see her giving it away, it's just too much power.

Thank you.  I do that all the time whether it's while listening to music or taking a shower, eating meals alone or during that "time to lean, time to clean" moment at the register. Pretty much, any idle moment I have I spend characterizing for established IPs or my own stuff. I just can't help it. That wall of text probably would have been a little shorter (though I can't say by how much since I tend to get a bit carried away when I characterize) if I hadn't had that post mess up earlier. I had about an extra eight hours to really stir that around in my head. 

Also, I want to state that I don't think that anything I laid out in that post block is anything bad about Liara. I actually think it's a good thing. Gives another wonderful aspect to her character and I like it when characters have that dark side to them. Makes them more relatable and shows that even the largely Paragon Liara can have a bad side, not just as a result of Shepard dying or being harried by the master of a spy network, but a geniune personality flaw.

[Yuqi]

More Renegade hating? Some of the best relationship dialogue in the game with Liara is Renegade. I have a FreckleShepard who has the glowing red eyes, and pretty scars, and is at least 98% renegade.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Yuqi wrote...

More Renegade hating? Some of the best relationship dialogue in the game with Liara is Renegade. I have a FreckleShepard who has the glowing red eyes, and pretty scars, and is at least 98% renegade.

I think people dislike Liara with renegade Shepard because renegade Shepard is violent, rude, racist (Only in ME1) and generally not the most likeable fellow. So Liara hooking up with them just seem out of place.

[Akernis]

MidnightRaith wrote...

I was watching the LotSB cutscenes again and I was struck by how much Liara seems to enjoy the role.
*lots of text*

I agree with some of what you say, though not all. Though I would start by saying that it was a well worded and desriped read.
It does seem that she enjoys the position, she does say "I want this" and while she does smile when saying that she could start a war she smiles even more deeply and genuinely when she says that helping Shepard will keep her honest.

I do not think that she wants it for the power to make people do as the pleases, I think it has more to do with the having the best position in the galaxy for information gathering, knowledge and that.
It also seems that she is less attached to it than I would have thought at first, she does crash the Shadow Broker ship into that Curberus Cruiser and judging by her tone I don't  think she regrets it.
In ME3 I get the impression that she is getting tired of all the work, and while she clearly does not dislike it, it seems that she clearly loves to have time away from the network.

If Shepard is not in a relationship with her I think she might remain as the Shadow Broker fulltime. And while I do not think that she would ever give up the network to someone else I still think she would either destroy the network outright or vastly diminish it is scope and scale when in a relationship with Shepard.
She seems well-aware of the fact that her position could change her and she does her best to keep herself honest.
She and Shepard seems to have a very good influence on each other and both keeps their partner safe ethicallly and emotionally, at least in my games

Modifié par Akernis, 28 mai 2012 - 09:57 .

[Yuqi]

Lizardviking wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

More Renegade hating? Some of the best relationship dialogue in the game with Liara is Renegade. I have a FreckleShepard who has the glowing red eyes, and pretty scars, and is at least 98% renegade.

I think people dislike Liara with renegade Shepard because renegade Shepard is violent, rude, racist (Only in ME1) and generally not the most likeable fellow. So Liara hooking up with them just seem out of place.

But her Liara's mother did try to lead Saren down a gentler path, not that it worked out the best, but still. Wouldn't it be ironic if it turned out that Shepard was indoctrinated, and Liara had to shoot Shepard? Talk about things coming  full-circle..

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Yuqi wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

More Renegade hating? Some of the best relationship dialogue in the game with Liara is Renegade. I have a FreckleShepard who has the glowing red eyes, and pretty scars, and is at least 98% renegade.

I think people dislike Liara with renegade Shepard because renegade Shepard is violent, rude, racist (Only in ME1) and generally not the most likeable fellow. So Liara hooking up with them just seem out of place.

But her Liara's mother did try to lead Saren down a gentler path, not that it worked out the best, but still. Wouldn't it be ironic if it turned out that Shepard was indoctrinated, and Liara had to shoot Shepard? Talk about things coming  full-circle..

If you try to spin it as Liara = Benzia then it would make more sense that Liara hooks up with Renegade Shepard only to fall to the wayside and embrace a much more ruthless attitude. Perhaps take over the galaxy together?

[Yuqi]

Lizardviking wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

More Renegade hating? Some of the best relationship dialogue in the game with Liara is Renegade. I have a FreckleShepard who has the glowing red eyes, and pretty scars, and is at least 98% renegade.

I think people dislike Liara with renegade Shepard because renegade Shepard is violent, rude, racist (Only in ME1) and generally not the most likeable fellow. So Liara hooking up with them just seem out of place.

But her Liara's mother did try to lead Saren down a gentler path, not that it worked out the best, but still. Wouldn't it be ironic if it turned out that Shepard was indoctrinated, and Liara had to shoot Shepard? Talk about things coming  full-circle..

If you try to spin it as Liara = Benzia then it would make more sense that Liara hooks up with Renegade Shepard only to fall to the wayside and embrace a much more ruthless attitude. Perhaps take over the galaxy together?

Well Liara did say in LOTSB:

'Give me ten minutes and I could start a war.'

Off Topic:

There's actually a holdtheline.com ? Someone actually paid too...<_< Hillarious! 

Modifié par Yuqi, 28 mai 2012 - 11:15 .

[kumquats]

Yuqi wrote...

More Renegade hating? Some of the best relationship dialogue in the game with Liara is Renegade. I have a FreckleShepard who has the glowing red eyes, and pretty scars, and is at least 98% renegade.

Renegade+Liara all the way.
I'm working on my third part of my Liara loves Renegade series. Totally worth it.

[Arcataye]

My renegade Shepard is such a jerk that he's been alone through it all.

Liara's answers are like "Yes Commander.", when in my canon playthrough she was like "All right Shepard.".
It's nice to see the differences.

Modifié par Arcataye, 28 mai 2012 - 12:09 .

[Sarcastic Tasha]

It is possible to play renegade Shep as a complete **** yeah, but I never do. Well killing Samara to help a psychotic murderer was a bit of a jerk move but it made sense (Samara's crazy). My renegade Shepard tends to be of "the ends justifies the means" mentality, she isn't cruel for the sake of being cruel and she certainly isn't racist. Liara tells renegade Shep she doesn't always agree with her decisions but she does respect them. I think Liara understands that sometimes Shepard has to do crappy things in order to save lives. I would liked to have seen a conversation between Liara and Shepard about sabotaging the genophage cure, the one with Garrus was fun but Liara must have known too. She must have known about Morinth too but never mentioned it.

[Tyranniac]

lillitheris wrote...

I’m also not certain my war plans against evil machines would be made based on the suggestions of the guy with the terminator eyes.

adneate wrote...

The only thing I can think of that would make Liara stay with super renegade Shepard is if she thought the end of the war ...
*text*
...Shepard's "soul". Just wish that carried over to ME3 and Liara would try to object to Shepard doing something she finds incredibly unethical or needless.

 

Agree, full-out rengade just doesn't work with Liara for me. Mostly renegade could surely work, but not completely. Although, one thing: Uhm... on my main playthrough (80% Paragon), I gunned down the indoctrinated salarians. Seemed like the merciful thing to do. 

MidnightRaith wrote...
lright, now I am ready to post what I wanted to this morning before I f'd it up and got pissed. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

I had wanted to talk more about Liara and the Shadow Broker, but I've been busy with work and my weekly crash when my body can no longer work under the insomnia...
*text*
...The more I think about it, the more I think she'd just crash the entire thing and if the galaxy really believes it needs someone like the SB, then they can start from scratch. Liara could then be freed from the role and all the implications and consequences.

 

Agree with all of this except one thing - I don't think Shepard will be helping the galaxy so soon after the defeat of the Reapers. She will need a lot of time to recover both physically and mentally.

[lillitheris]

Yuqi wrote...

There's actually a holdtheline.com ? Someone actually paid too...<_< Hillarious!

You may laugh, but egads the forum software is so much nicer on HTL…

[adneate]

Yuqi wrote...
More Renegade hating?

Not really, people were talking about the extremes. My canon Shep is renegade, though I play renegade odd so maybe she doesn't count to some, so I certainly think Liara's more than capable of seeing lots of things in a renegade Shep. It's just that if you hit every single renegade action in the game I don't see what Shepard's belief system is since it just seems violent and sociopathic. If your goal is to stop the Reapers at any cost how exactly does executing Shiala further that goal? Or gunning down Falere when she doesn't really pose a threat to anyone? Or just how someone could look at themself in the mirror after leaving David Archer to be tortured to death by his brother when they had the power to stop it.

As a real military officer I firmly believe you have to have some kind of code, even in war, it's not so much for those you fight against but for yourself. If you aren't willing to have some theoretical line you won't cross or actions you refuse to do then the barbarism of war becomes all consuming, you lose yourself to it. It's the same as being dead. You might believe the ends justify the means but you still have to live with the means and know you acted with as much integrity as possible.

Tyranniac wrote...
Although, one thing: Uhm... on my main
playthrough (80% Paragon), I gunned down the indoctrinated salarians.
Seemed like the merciful thing to do.

I see that, I don't have anything against that line of thinking. Though I kinda see it as needless since they're already dead when you find them, there isn't really a need to open the door and personally execute them one by one. Especially when you're going to nuke the facility, I just leave them for the bomb.

[Tyranniac]

adneate wrote...

Tyranniac wrote...
Although, one thing: Uhm... on my main
playthrough (80% Paragon), I gunned down the indoctrinated salarians.
Seemed like the merciful thing to do.

I see that, I don't have anything against that line of thinking. Though I kinda see it as needless since they're already dead when you find them, there isn't really a need to open the door and personally execute them one by one. Especially when you're going to nuke the facility, I just leave them for the bomb.

Yeah, that's true, I figured it was better to put them out of their misery sooner rather than letting them live until the bomb goes off.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Tyranniac wrote...

adneate wrote...

Tyranniac wrote...
Although, one thing: Uhm... on my main
playthrough (80% Paragon), I gunned down the indoctrinated salarians.
Seemed like the merciful thing to do.

I see that, I don't have anything against that line of thinking. Though I kinda see it as needless since they're already dead when you find them, there isn't really a need to open the door and personally execute them one by one. Especially when you're going to nuke the facility, I just leave them for the bomb.

Yeah, that's true, I figured it was better to put them out of their misery sooner rather than letting them live until the bomb goes off.

Indeed. I see nothing wrong in shooting the salarians, its more like a mercy kill.

Which is why I strongly disagree with Liara in that scene, I also find her to hold a somewhat double-standard as AFAIK, she thinks turning off life support for the brain dead person to be a good act.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

If Mass Effect had the murder knife then I'd probably play psycho Shep. Since discovering the murder knife pretty much every one of my wardens has been a psycho that will stab any person she gets a chance to (but not the dog). Its just too tempting not to, like chucking that merc out the window in ME2.

In ME1 and ME2 Shepard can come across pretty cold, you can even play her as a sociopath. But by ME3 she gets some emotions, you can't play her as a sociopath any more because you see her feeling remorse. But I liked that, it makes sense Shepard would feel guilty for shooting Mordin in the back.

[PMC65]

I've always put down the salarians as well since it seems crueler to just leave them here like that. Will the bomb kill them? Probably ... but in my Shepard's head this is a more honorable way to kill them. That bomb is meant for Saren and his madness not for these poor salarians. At least, that's the way that the Shepards in my universes feel.

I always wondered though about that one lone salarian in the far right cell that you leave alive. I was half expecting him to show up in ME3 and depending what you did to the mono-tones (what I called that bunch of salarians) was how he would respond to you.

[Jebel Krong]

kumquats wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

More Renegade hating? Some of the best relationship dialogue in the game with Liara is Renegade. I have a FreckleShepard who has the glowing red eyes, and pretty scars, and is at least 98% renegade.

Renegade+Liara all the way.
I'm working on my third part of my Liara loves Renegade series. Totally worth it.

i always play renegade, though badass pragmatist would cover it, not jerk like some choices have you come off. the interrupts are always fun, too. i executed the salarians to put them out of their misery, i also turned off the batarian terrorist's life support in me3 for the same reason.

[Theodoro]

Hey, guys! Just wanted to let you know that I completed my first Liara / Shepard fan fiction story, and I wanted to share it with you. I really love writing but it's still very difficult for me since it's only my third attempt at making fan fiction. Here's a link for the short story if anybody's interested. (M!Shep/Liara)

It's made to be a follow-up of the vanilla ME2 meeting with Liara (LotSB aside) with Shepard returning to speak with Liara in an attempt to break her cold facade, not giving up on having a real reunion with her. I don't know if the fic technically contains smut, but if it does, it's not explicit.

[S3Plan]

Lizardviking wrote...

Which is why I strongly disagree with Liara in that scene, I also find her to hold a somewhat double-standard as AFAIK, she thinks turning off life support for the brain dead person to be a good act.

I think it's due to the manner in which the individuals in question are euthanised. With Jacob, Shepard simply switches off his life support and he drifts away in relative peace. With the salarians, blowing their brains out is arguably a far more barbaric way of killing someone. I think that's what Liara disagrees with.

How would you feel if you were taking a beloved family pet to be put down, and instead of the expected lethal injection, the vet pulled out a loaded handgun? I think that's an apt analogy.

[TMA LIVE]

Still no fixes to Liara's scenes. Which is sad.

[S3Plan]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Still no fixes to Liara's scenes. Which is sad.

What do you mean? Was there a patch released today or something?