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[TMA LIVE]

There's going to be a patch this week. But it's mostly for multiplayer stuff.

[Arcataye]

TMA LIVE wrote...

There's going to be a patch this week. But it's mostly for multiplayer stuff.

I'm a bit annoyed about having multiplayer in this game, sure it's fun and I play it. But I never felt the need for multiplayer in Mass Effect, at least not in the way it's currently in the game. Would've been nice to have some more "story" to multiplayer missions than just "land, kill, extract". Don't know how but hey that's their job. The singleplayer might have been a bit more polished without it, but that's just a big maybe. Although they're getting a load of money from people buying the packs so I can't blame them.

Sorry.

Modifié par Arcataye, 28 mai 2012 - 07:54 .

[MidnightRaith]

Akernis wrote...

MidnightRaith wrote...

I was watching the LotSB cutscenes again and I was struck by how much Liara seems to enjoy the role.
*lots of text*

I agree with some of what you say, though not all. Though I would start by saying that it was a well worded and desriped read.
It does seem that she enjoys the position, she does say "I want this" and while she does smile when saying that she could start a war she smiles even more deeply and genuinely when she says that helping Shepard will keep her honest.

I do not think that she wants it for the power to make people do as the pleases, I think it has more to do with the having the best position in the galaxy for information gathering, knowledge and that.
It also seems that she is less attached to it than I would have thought at first, she does crash the Shadow Broker ship into that Curberus Cruiser and judging by her tone I don't  think she regrets it.
In ME3 I get the impression that she is getting tired of all the work, and while she clearly does not dislike it, it seems that she clearly loves to have time away from the network.

If Shepard is not in a relationship with her I think she might remain as the Shadow Broker fulltime. And while I do not think that she would ever give up the network to someone else I still think she would either destroy the network outright or vastly diminish it is scope and scale when in a relationship with Shepard.
She seems well-aware of the fact that her position could change her and she does her best to keep herself honest. 
She and Shepard seems to have a very good influence on each other and both keeps their partner safe ethicallly and emotionally, at least in my games 

Good alternative view of what I wrote.  That's the thing about characterizing, no one is really going to guess what the characters would do with 100% accuracy unless they are the writer themselves. There is more than one interpretation to characters and I can see your argument. However, the only thing I would pick at is her using Hagalaz against Cerberus. She may have thought that it would be better to not only destroy the ship so Cerberus would not have anything left to salvage, but throw the metaphorical finger at them at the same time. If it turned out that destroying the ship severely crippled her network, then I could see that she wasn't as attached to the role as I thought. However, it turns out that while she does lose some information, her network largely stays intact and can be run relatively smoothly from the Normandy.

Tyranniac wrote...

Agree with all of this except one thing - I don't think Shepard will be helping the galaxy so soon after the defeat of the Reapers. She will need a lot of time to recover both physically and mentally.

Ah, yes I don't know why I wasn't thinking of Shepard's recovery time.  Tack on however long it takes to recover from an explosion and become functional after suffering from what might me severe PTSD and then Shepard can give her opinion on the galactic reconstruction efforts and such. Man, poor Shepard isn't going to get out of the limelight for some time....

[Furean]

Theodoro wrote...

Hey, guys! Just wanted to let you know that I completed my first Liara / Shepard fan fiction story, and I wanted to share it with you. I really love writing but it's still very difficult for me since it's only my third attempt at making fan fiction. Here's a link for the short story if anybody's interested. (M!Shep/Liara)

It's made to be a follow-up of the vanilla ME2 meeting with Liara (LotSB aside) with Shepard returning to speak with Liara in an attempt to break her cold facade, not giving up on having a real reunion with her. I don't know if the fic technically contains smut, but if it does, it's not explicit.

Nicely written, I'll say. I think it's hard to get intimate encounters like that right in writing, but I'd dare say that your go at it seems to have gone well indeed!

[PMC65]

TMA LIVE wrote...

There's going to be a patch this week. But it's mostly for multiplayer stuff.

To be honest, I think the Mass Effect add-ons will be primarily multi-player ... DLC's for single players? Not so much. But making maps is probably easier, quicker and cheaper ... no voice actors, writing, etc.

Here's hoping that I'm wrong *raises glass of ryncol ... and then makes Karmen drink it*

[Theodoro]

Furean wrote...
Nicely written, I'll say. I think it's hard to get intimate encounters like that right in writing, but I'd dare say that your go at it seems to have gone well indeed!

Thanks so much! It was indeed difficult - especially since one has to account for the joining, as well - and I'm glad that you think this way.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Theodoro wrote...

Hey, guys! Just wanted to let you know that I completed my first Liara / Shepard fan fiction story, and I wanted to share it with you. I really love writing but it's still very difficult for me since it's only my third attempt at making fan fiction. Here's a link for the short story if anybody's interested. (M!Shep/Liara)

It's made to be a follow-up of the vanilla ME2 meeting with Liara (LotSB aside) with Shepard returning to speak with Liara in an attempt to break her cold facade, not giving up on having a real reunion with her. I don't know if the fic technically contains smut, but if it does, it's not explicit.

I liked it. :innocent:

"EDIT"

It might have been a bit short though, but what was there felt true to the characters.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 28 mai 2012 - 08:24 .

[Akernis]

Theodoro wrote...

Hey, guys! Just wanted to let you know that I completed my first Liara / Shepard fan fiction story, and I wanted to share it with you. I really love writing but it's still very difficult for me since it's only my third attempt at making fan fiction. Here's a link for the short story if anybody's interested. (M!Shep/Liara)

It's made to be a follow-up of the vanilla ME2 meeting with Liara (LotSB aside) with Shepard returning to speak with Liara in an attempt to break her cold facade, not giving up on having a real reunion with her. I don't know if the fic technically contains smut, but if it does, it's not explicit.

I really liked it . I'll PM you about the details.
I found nothing in it I would even think about as smut, and I am usually overly sensitive to that sort of thing .

[TrulyInnovative]

I just read sinvraal's Iunctio for the third time and it remains one of my favorite Mass Effect fics. Even though it's a FemShep/Kaidan fic, there are a few chapters from Liara's point of view and I think sinvraal handles those really nicely. I especially loved this moment:

Maybe it was too easy to love those that were already dead, because they did nothing but stay dead. Enigmatic, distant, and totally safe. Loving a living being, well... the living could speak, think, change.

They could choose.

Something in her wished she'd never come aboard. But as someone who valued knowledge above all else, it would be foolish to deny the vast wealth she had come to own by being on the Normandy.

She hugged her knees and allowed her mind to drift, seeking peace in the void between thoughts, letting her tangled emotions run their course and finally settle. At length, a new resolution formed in her mind.

The matriarchs say we are living memory.

I will remember you, mother. When everyone has condemned you as the betrayer, I will remember that you went into the darkness to bring light. I will remember that even in blackest night, you still had the strength to give us the key. I will try... to be as strong as you, mother.

And you humans... so beautiful and terrible, so bright and brief and forever alone, I will remember you. As I bring the protheans into the future, so shall I you. Even after all of you are dust, I will carry on the memory of what you do here, for all of us.

Shepard... as long as I live, so will you.

[Furean]

Theodoro wrote...
Thanks so much! It was indeed difficult - especially since one has to account for the joining, as well - and I'm glad that you think this way.

Heh, yeah. It does seem to add an extra layer of challenge for Liara fanfic writers when they write those scenes, although perhaps that very thing makes the couple more interesting to write, too!

Anyhoo, I shall have to try and see if I contribute with some more MShep x Liara drabbles/mini-fics in the near future, as well.

[Aristobulus500]

Theodoro wrote...

Hey, guys! Just wanted to let you know that I completed my first Liara / Shepard fan fiction story, and I wanted to share it with you. I really love writing but it's still very difficult for me since it's only my third attempt at making fan fiction. Here's a link for the short story if anybody's interested. (M!Shep/Liara)

It's made to be a follow-up of the vanilla ME2 meeting with Liara (LotSB aside) with Shepard returning to speak with Liara in an attempt to break her cold facade, not giving up on having a real reunion with her. I don't know if the fic technically contains smut, but if it does, it's not explicit.

This is, for the most part, really well done. I like how you stick to trying to portray the emotions they feel for eachother, the love they have, and how they each have dealt with the others absence because of Shepard's death, and that switching back and forth between their perspectives is interesting.

You didn't write anything too explicit, so don't worry there. Then again, this coming from someone that loved Rae's "..Can Wait", well, that's a rough standard to be compared to!

I do have some criticisms though. There's a few lines where Shepard doesn't really sound like Shepard. He kindof...speaks too weakly or something? It's a little bit hard to say, but some of this is most noticeable when Shepard first shows up at Liara's apartment. Just try to imagine some of those lines being said by Meer and it gets kinda difficult.

And Liara - she's a bit, inconsistent? Mostly her thoughts to herself before Shepard shows up at her place - if she truly felt that way, why would she act like she did at Illium? It's a complete 180. Not that I think Liara shouldn't have any regrets, but she acted that way for a reason, and there should still be some part of her justifying to herself why she acted like that, because if no part of her can defend it so soon after she did it...she probably wouldn't have done it in the first place!

It's just...it kindof reminds me of when fanfic writers write Ashley, and they completely have her throw away all her xenophobic tendencies out of respect for Shepard and the alien squadmembers. That's just them trying to write out a part of her character they dislike, rather than actually deal with it and integrate it into the character as they should. Same here for Liara - I feel like you (rightfully so) didn't like Liara on Illium, so rather than deal with it, you just threw out that part of her character and had her reject it without any real event to make her do so.

The other issue I have is - it's really hard, if not impossible, to mesh this with the canon of the games. I just can't see this scene as happening and then leading into LotSB. In this story you've written they completely reconcile and confess love for eachother (and more), again, so none of those talks they have in LotSB make sense - none of Liara's talks about being pained, wondering if Shepard still cares for her after what she's done, Shepard wondering why she'd so particularly cold and distant, that kiss they share when he reaffirms he does want to be with her - none of it makes any sense following up your fanfic, because they both already have their answer.

If you intend that to be the case, I feel like you need a notice at the beginning clarifying that this is an AU story where LotSB happens differently or something.

(And of course, there's the unanswered question of how Shepard found Liara's apartment. I don't like the implied answer that she's just bad at what she does)

Edit - I know I said a lot of negative here, but frankly it's easier to write up criticisms than it is to praise something. And I feel it's generally more helpful to do that, anyway. Me just saying "oh this was amazing" doesn't really help anything, I feel, even if I did really like most of it. And I did, don't get me wrong.

If I just outright didn't like your fanfic I would've just closed it and not really bothered writing this much on it. I'm only writing all this because I did like it, and I feel you could make things even better, because you are a good writer.

Modifié par Aristobulus500, 28 mai 2012 - 09:07 .

[Robhuzz]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Still no fixes to Liara's scenes. Which is sad.

BioWare doesn't really have the best reputation when it comes to bugfixing. I wouldn't count on these things ever being fixed. At least the Lotsb bug was easy to fix with gibbed.

[Theodoro]

Lizardviking wrote...
I liked it. :innocent:

"EDIT"

It might have been a bit short though, but what was there felt true to the characters.

Thanks! And yes, it is a bit short, something I'll work on in the future!

Akernis wrote...
I really liked it . I'll PM you about the details.
I found nothing in it I would even think about as smut, and I am usually overly sensitive to that sort of thing .

Thanks, replied via PM.

Furean wrote...

Theodoro wrote...
Thanks so much! It was indeed difficult - especially since one has to account for the joining, as well - and I'm glad that you think this way.

Anyhoo, I shall have to try and see if I contribute with some more MShep x Liara drabbles/mini-fics in the near future, as well.

That'd be awesome!
Not-so-subtle suggestion: Hopefully with renders to accompany them!

[Akernis]

The artist of this one



Just made one of Liara as a child/baby

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Theodoro wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
I liked it. :innocent:

"EDIT"

It might have been a bit short though, but what was there felt true to the characters.

Thanks! And yes, it is a bit short, something I'll work on in the future!

It should be noted that Aristobulus have a point and that if you plan to write LOTSB then the dynamic between the two characters will be far different.

[lillitheris]

Akernis wrote...


Just made one of Liara as a child/baby

I may just have died. I’ll report back squueeeeeeee

[Theodoro]

Aristobulus500 wrote...
*snip*

I appreciate your comments about the story - and you're right in saying that criticism helps people to do better in what they do, and I thank you for your detailed review! I do agree with everything you said - I know that the change in Liara is a bit sudden, and I ought to have expanded on it more - but I honestly wanted to keep this a short story - something I shouldn't have done in retrospect. As for Shepard acting the way he does, I don't tend to picture Mark Meer saying the words since I'm trying to write what my Shepard would say. That might be off-putting for others, though, and I understand that.

And just to clarify - this is an AU story - LotSB does not happen in the same way afterwards; this is only a what-if scenario if Shepard went to Liara after their reunion, so, naturally, things wouldn't progress the same. I should have said that when I posted about it, my bad! (I otherwise wouldn't have done it because I feel like LotSB was perfect so I wouldn't need a fan fiction story to change anything.)

[Aristobulus500]

Theodoro wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...
*snip*

I appreciate your comments about the story - and you're right in saying that criticism helps people to do better in what they do, and I thank you for your detailed review! I do agree with everything you said - I know that the change in Liara is a bit sudden, and I ought to have expanded on it more - but I honestly wanted to keep this a short story - something I shouldn't have done in retrospect. As for Shepard acting the way he does, I don't tend to picture Mark Meer saying the words since I'm trying to write what my Shepard would say. That might be off-putting for others, though, and I understand that.

And just to clarify - this is an AU story - LotSB does not happen in the same way afterwards; this is only a what-if scenario if Shepard went to Liara after their reunion, so, naturally, things wouldn't progress the same. I should have said that when I posted about it, my bad! (I otherwise wouldn't have done it because I feel like LotSB was perfect so I wouldn't need a fan fiction story to change anything.)

Yeah, I feel like you might've just limited yourself a bit because you felt like you were "supposed" to. I want to say something that has to do with why I've praised Rae's series before - don't worry about things like length or limits or explicitness. Write what you need to. Make it as long, or as short, as you need to, to fully develop all your ideas and your characters and explore everything you want to. Similarly, be as explicit or not explicit as you feel is fitting for fully fleshing everything out, too.

If you hold yourself back, if you censor yourself, place restraints on what you will write, your story and characters suffer for it.

Also, there's nothing wrong with AU stories. It's just, you need to plainly spell out in the beginning before the story, not only that it is an AU story, but in exactly what way it's an AU story - what is changed in this from the canon, so that readers can keep that in mind, and mentally shape the existing canon to what you've laid out, as they read the story.

Finally, as far as "your" Shepard, I mean I see your point, but keep in mind no matter if you're paragon or renegade or what your Shepard looks like, canonically he still only says and does things Meer voiced him to do. That includes a certain type of personality - thankfully there's a lot of freedom for different types of personalities Shepard can have, just based around the paragon/renegade/neutral system. But it still means that Shepard did one of those things, unless you explicitly state that he did something different as an AU divergent from canon.

If you change it too much, you're not writing Shepard anymore though, is the problem. You kindof have to stick to basing it on at least a Shepard that can be reasonably built from the choices and dialogues offered to you throughout the series. But again, you're given a ton of freedom to flesh out a Shepard for yourself, so it's not like writing, say, Squall or something.

Oh, and I do want to mention I really like that you went with a MaleShep for this. Literally every fanfic I've read that I've liked, used a FemShep. It's really nice to see a MaleShep's perspective for a change, and to see how Liara reacts to a MaleShep differently than a FemShep. Does make me wish you didn't hold yourself back as you did, though!

[lillitheris]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Just try to imagine some of those lines being said by Meer and it gets kinda difficult.

True. Anything Meerpard says is off.

*runs* :happy:<3

But seriously though, is that really a good standard? Writing John Shepard is one thing, of course, but this Shepard might be a little more expressive, more soft-spoken…

I don’t expect any retellings or AUs to restrict their Shepard like that. The important thing is that the character is internally consistent and appropriate to the broad storyline (Shep’s in the army no matter what, and so on.) I’d certainly not restrict them to only use the lines used in the game the entire time.

…

Will leave FFN review/s.

Modifié par lillitheris, 28 mai 2012 - 09:43 .

[Aristobulus500]

lillitheris wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Just try to imagine some of those lines being said by Meer and it gets kinda difficult.

True. Anything Meerpard says is off.

*runs* :happy:<3

But seriously though, is that really a good standard? Writing John Shepard is one thing, of course, but this Shepard might be a little more expressive, more soft-spoken…

Did I say John Shepard, default Shep that only makes neutral choices, or something? No, I didn't. But regardless, you can still only play a Shep that's a combination of some amount of choices of paragon, renegade, and neutral.

If you change it up too much, then you're left with a character that isn't Shepard and wouldn't do or say the things Shepard does in the games, no matter what alignment you're saying he is.

As an extreme example to get my point across - and this is not what I'm saying Theo's Shepard was like, it's just a completely hypothetical Shepard - if you write a fanfic and say "My Shepard is a coward and is pretty weak willed" and then write a story of Shepard being afraid to confront people, it can be consistent in the story, but it is pretty jarring when meshed with the games canon - because that Shepard is not a leader and wouldn't say or do the strong things Shepard does.

[Tyranniac]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Did I say John Shepard, default Shep that only makes neutral choices, or something? No, I didn't. But regardless, you can still only play a Shep that's a combination of some amount of choices of paragon, renegade, and neutral.

If you change it up too much, then you're left with a character that isn't Shepard and wouldn't do or say the things Shepard does in the games, no matter what alignment you're saying he is.

As an extreme example to get my point across - and this is not what I'm saying Theo's Shepard was like, it's just a completely hypothetical Shepard - if you write a fanfic and say "My Shepard is a coward and is pretty weak willed" and then write a story of Shepard being afraid to confront people, it can be consistent in the story, but it is pretty jarring when meshed with the games canon - because that Shepard is not a leader and wouldn't say or do the strong things Shepard does.

Yeah I have to agree with this, the game sets up certain guidelines for what Shepard is like regardless of alignment or actions in the games.

Modifié par Tyranniac, 28 mai 2012 - 09:46 .

[lillitheris]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Did I say John Shepard, default Shep that only makes neutral choices, or something? No, I didn't. But regardless, you can still only play a Shep that's a combination of some amount of choices of paragon, renegade, and neutral.

If you change it up too much, then you're left with a character that isn't Shepard and wouldn't do or say the things Shepard does in the games, no matter what alignment you're saying he is.

I couldn’t disagree more. Leaving aside the philosophical differences,  there’s no detailed template of what ‘The Shepard’ is and is not allowed to do, making the entire point moot.

As an extreme example to get my point across - and this is not what I'm saying Theo's Shepard was like, it's just a completely hypothetical Shepard - if you write a fanfic and say "My Shepard is a coward and is pretty weak willed" and then write a story of Shepard being afraid to confront people, it can be consistent in the story, but it is pretty jarring when meshed with the games canon - because that Shepard is not a leader and wouldn't say or do the strong things Shepard does.

Shepard’s not a special case, it’s just like any other concern of realism in the setting. If Shepard runs away when he’s supposed to fight, then he’ll either lose, win by other means, or then the story becomes illogical/unrealistic.

[lillitheris]

Tyranniac wrote...

Yeah I have to agree with this, the game sets up certain guidelines for what Shepard is like regardless of alignment or actions in the games.

I’m sure glad Eevy’s a girl, I don’t think I could handle all that.

Can you list these guidelines for me? Inexhaustive list is fine. It’d be great if you added why something is a guideline, too, but not necessary.

Is Shepard allowed to play the piano? Does he need to know how to swim? Can he be a neat freak? Will he fail a mission if he insists on using a hand sanitizer constantly?

Modifié par lillitheris, 28 mai 2012 - 09:56 .

[PMC65]

lillitheris wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Just try to imagine some of those lines being said by Meer and it gets kinda difficult.

True. Anything Meerpard says is off.

*snip*

I don't really hear either Meer or Hale in my head while playing ... PV Shepard sounds like Alan Rickman and EW Shepard sounds like me when I play them. Nothing against either Meer or Hale. Maybe if I played the default Shepards the default voices would be applied. Who knows. 

EDIT: TOPS



And one just for Moreeman ...

http://t2.gstatic.co...yRCJOjXArnH_dpA
facepunch.com

Modifié par PMC65, 28 mai 2012 - 10:05 .

[lillitheris]

PMC65 wrote...

I don't really hear either Meer or Hale in my head while playing ... PV Shepard sounds like Alan Rickman and EW Shepard sounds like me when I play them. Nothing against either Meer or Hale. Maybe if I played the default Shepards the default voices would be applied. Who knows.

I don’t, either, but there’s a lot of variance in people in this.

I don’t mean to delegitimize Aristobulus feeling that he can’t relate to a Shepard who wouldn’t sound right voiced by Meer. That’s a perfectly valid preference.

But it is emphatically not a universal rule of some kind.

Modifié par lillitheris, 28 mai 2012 - 10:01 .