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[Tyranniac]

lillitheris wrote...

Tyranniac wrote...

Yeah I have to agree with this, the game sets up certain guidelines for what Shepard is like regardless of alignment or actions in the games.

I’m sure glad Eevy’s a girl, I don’t think I could handle all that.

Can you list these guidelines for me? Inexhaustive list is fine. It’d be great if you added why something is a guideline, too, but not necessary.

Is Shepard allowed to play the piano? Does he need to know how to swim? Can he be a neat freak? Will he fail a mission if he insists on using a hand sanitizer constantly?

Huh? What does Shepard's gender have to do with this? I play FemShep. 

And I didn't say any of the things you said were impossible - you actually sound a bit hostile. I didn't mean to offend anyone! I just said that the games gives us some basic guidelines for how Shepard acts, individual Shepards would still differ greatly of course, but some things are universal.

I'll be leaving for the night now, back tomorrow. 

Modifié par Tyranniac, 28 mai 2012 - 10:03 .

[lillitheris]

First off, by the by, there’s the Fanfic Writers Support Group thread which is probably more appropriate if you want to continue on the topic of characterization.

Tyranniac wrote...

Huh? What does Shepard's gender have to do with this? I play FemShep. 

I thought it might be a guy problem of some kind. I’ve certainly never felt or witnessed any kind of a pressure to cling to arbitrary rules, but I very rarely read MShep stuff.

And I didn't say any of the things you said were impossible - you actually sound a bit hostile.

Yes, I was a little hostile…the criticism I was responding to felt, frankly, preposterous.

I didn't mean to offend anyone! I just said that the games gives us
some basic guidelines for how Shepard acts, individual Shepards would
still differ greatly of course, but some things are universal.

Sure, but until there’s a list that includes more than 1. you start as a SA marine and 2. if you don’t thwart the reapers, the galaxy is screwed, I don’t think you can hold people to it.

[Jebel Krong]

edit: deleted.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 28 mai 2012 - 10:17 .

[PMC65]

lillitheris wrote...

Tyranniac wrote...

Yeah I have to agree with this, the game sets up certain guidelines for what Shepard is like regardless of alignment or actions in the games.

I’m sure glad Eevy’s a girl, I don’t think I could handle all that.

Can you list these guidelines for me? Inexhaustive list is fine. It’d be great if you added why something is a guideline, too, but not necessary.

Is Shepard allowed to play the piano? Does he need to know how to swim? Can he be a neat freak? Will he fail a mission if he insists on using a hand sanitizer constantly?

Here is my list ...

1) Shepard is female. If your Shepard appears to be a male then she is in drag ... obviously.

2) Shepard is an Alliance soldier and also an N7 ... Sexy!

3) Shepard is allergic to chocolate. Sorry to Liara and Kaidan who like to be dipped in said stuff.

4) Shepard cannot dance while others that know her are around. She is secretive like that.

5) Shepard is a starfish when it comes to sex. Disappointing, I know.

6) Shepard loves Harlequin romances ... especially the ones where the lead looks like Fabio.

7) Shepard does not wear socks.

These are just the first things that came to mind ... I'll work on remaining list later.

[lillitheris]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Shepard is semi-predefined, which is why you can't rp at whim and some things are either done automatically or forced in some situations.

Please provide list of said predefinitions.

[Jebel Krong]

lillitheris wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

Shepard is semi-predefined, which is why you can't rp at whim and some things are either done automatically or forced in some situations.

Please provide list of said predefinitions.

to start: character type, previous history... shepard starts as a character with history in the universe.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 28 mai 2012 - 10:21 .

[lillitheris]

PMC65 wrote...

1) Shepard is female. If your Shepard appears to be a male then she is in drag ... obviously.

2) Shepard is an Alliance soldier and also an N7 ... Sexy!

3) Shepard is allergic to chocolate. Sorry to Liara and Kaidan who like to be dipped in said stuff.

4) Shepard cannot dance while others that know her are around. She is secretive like that.

5) Shepard is a starfish when it comes to sex. Disappointing, I know.

6) Shepard loves Harlequin romances ... especially the ones where the lead looks like Fabio.

7) Shepard does not wear socks.

These are just the first things that came to mind ... I'll work on remaining list later.

Those seem justified. Question on 4), though: does ‘cannot’ mean physically unable, or is it an ancient curse or something of that nature? Also, if she’s physically unable, does she become able when not around persons she knows? What is the radius we’re talking about?

I’m going to have a hard time trying to incorporate anything wider than 30-40 years, unless we’re talking about a genie.

[lillitheris]

Jebel Krong wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

Shepard is semi-predefined, which is why you can't rp at whim and some things are either done automatically or forced in some situations.

Please provide list of said predefinitions.

to start: character type, previous history...

What’s a character type? Extroverted vs. introverted? Or do you mean the class? What if someone plays an Infiltrator type, but never uses a sniper rifle?

Previous history is probably the background? Sure…I certainly wouldn’t stop reading if someone decided to make their Shepard a Spacer who was an orphan but I suppose that’s acceptable as something you should try to adhere to.

…

I’m sure you see where I’m going with this, right? There are maybe a dozen things that will apply to every Shepard everywhere. The rest is highly malleable. If you don’t feel like a character who doesn’t conform to Paragon Engineer romancing Ashley (for the sake of the argument), that’s perfectly alright.

Modifié par lillitheris, 28 mai 2012 - 10:27 .

[PMC65]

frudi wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

There's going to be a patch this week. But it's mostly for multiplayer stuff.

To be honest, I think the Mass Effect add-ons will be primarily multi-player ... DLC's for single players? Not so much. But making maps is probably easier, quicker and cheaper ... no voice actors, writing, etc.

Here's hoping that I'm wrong *raises glass of ryncol ... and then makes Karmen drink it*

As I understand it, singleplayer and multiplayer content is produced by different teams, so the multiplayer DLCs should not really affect the singleplayer ones.
It also make sense for them to bring MP content out far more often than SP content, like we're already getting a second MP DLC tomorrow. SP players are willing to wait patiently for a content rich DLC for half a year or longer; they will buy it even if they hadn't touched the game for months. MP players are far more fickle - once they get bored, they will abandon the game and probably never return. So Bioware has to keep them engaged and playing, hence the frequent MP DLCs.

ME1 had two DLC (Bring Down The Sky / Pinnacle Station) / ME3 had three (Overlord / LotSB / Arrival) ... So we may get 1-3? The EC really shouldn't count in that mix but it does. The writers (Like Sylvia) have moved on to Dragon Age and if you look at the DLC's above the only one that had a VO (Ali) come back really was LotSB.

I'm not really putting too much hope in the DLC's being great. The only two that I liked were BDtS & LotSB, to be honest. But, as I said, I hope that I'm wrong. Fingers crossed.

[PMC65]

lillitheris wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

4) Shepard cannot dance while others that know her are around. She is secretive like that.

*snip*

Those seem justified. Question on 4), though: does ‘cannot’ mean physically unable, or is it an ancient curse or something of that nature? Also, if she’s physically unable, does she become able when not around persons she knows? What is the radius we’re talking about?

I’m going to have a hard time trying to incorporate anything wider than 30-40 years, unless we’re talking about a genie.

Shepard is a demon on the dance floor ... she loves to shake it like Rerun or JLo (extra points for anyone who knows the former) but as soon as an individual she knows enters the establishment ... poof! Ability is stripped from her. It is a rare form of PST ... or is that STD? PMS?

[MidnightRaith]

As far as Shepard is concerned, so long as you meet the milestones in his/her life, then I feel that you have a ton of room to characterize him/her. Shepard is the PC, you're supposed to be able to insert traits you think suit him/her best. That is why the board is obsessed with terms like, "My Shepard," because Shepard is not fleshed out enough to give the impression that he/she is fully developed character within the game.

[Jebel Krong]

lillitheris wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

Shepard is semi-predefined, which is why you can't rp at whim and some things are either done automatically or forced in some situations.

Please provide list of said predefinitions.

to start: character type, previous history...

What’s a character type? Extroverted vs. introverted? Or do you mean the class? What if someone plays an Infiltrator type, but never uses a sniper rifle?

Previous history is probably the background? Sure…I certainly wouldn’t stop reading if someone decided to make their Shepard a Spacer who was an orphan but I suppose that’s acceptable as something you should try to adhere to.

…

I’m sure you see where I’m going with this, right? There are maybe a dozen things that will apply to every Shepard everywhere. The rest is highly malleable. If you don’t feel like a character who doesn’t conform to Paragon Engineer romancing Ashley (for the sake of the argument), that’s perfectly alright.

Yes i meant background the way you interpreted it. Character traits would be things like being heroic and driven to excel, - basically any immutable cornerstone of the general character. Within that there is then a deal to play with but even the games show some limits there, even non-technically posed.

[PMC65]

MidnightRaith wrote...

As far as Shepard is concerned, so long as you meet the milestones in his/her life, then I feel that you have a ton of room to characterize him/her. Shepard is the PC, you're supposed to be able to insert traits you think suit him/her best. That is why the board is obsessed with terms like, "My Shepard," because Shepard is not fleshed out enough to give the impression that he/she is fully developed character within the game.

Wait! Are you trying to tell me that your Shepard is not allergic to chocolate? Really? Don't be ridiculous!

Next think you will tell me is that there are Shepards not madly in love with Tali!

Oh, the blasphemy!!!!!!

*looks down at Moreeman passed out* Now see what you have done?

Now back to Liara!

[danteliveson]

TMA LIVE wrote...

There's going to be a patch this week. But it's mostly for multiplayer stuff.

I seriously wonder why I ever supported this company.

[kumquats]

I just finished my worst playthrough marathon. I can report that the Liara Romance, never changes, no matter what happens.
It was a very interesting, playthrough and since I couldn't save Kaidan. I will upload the Liara loves Renegade series with extra dialogues from Palavan, Kaidan's death, Grissom A., Monestary and the second dream sequence.
I'm not sure what trickert the last one, maybe because so many are dead...

I may have missed tons of Liara scenes, but it's just so much....
*got hit critical by Liara overload*

[MidnightRaith]

PMC65 wrote...

Wait! Are you trying to tell me that your Shepard is not allergic to chocolate? Really? Don't be ridiculous!

Next think you will tell me is that there are Shepards not madly in love with Tali!

Oh, the blasphemy!!!!!!

*looks down at Moreeman passed out* Now see what you have done?

Now back to Liara!

Pshhh.... My Shepard () has chocolate stashed in her armor. She and Liara share it during missions while Garrus watches sadly. 

[Akernis]

Aristobulus500 wrote...
*Talks about Theo's fic*

About some of the specific points you raised.
I did not think Shepard seemed to weak since I feel fine with, probably even prefers, for him to have an emotionally vulnerable side for what matter most dearly to him. I think I would have done it much the same way if I had been the one writing it.
 
I did not feel that Liara was inconsistent either, at least not to the decree I think you meant, for me when she meet Shepard in her office she experienced intense feelings of disbelief for him really being there, confusion for how to handle his return and her own feelings of sorrow up until then and at last fear of pushing him away again, especially if he learns what she did to help revive him.
In defence to this overwhelming emotional response she shut all her feelings down and simply became cold as it was to much to handle for her at that moment.
It is first when she is back in her apartment and alone that she allows her feelings to open up again and without Shepard around she can think clearly again and first then realises that she has done precisely what she had feared.
 
I also did not feel like he rejected the way Liara behaved on Ilium, simply showing how she really is that we normally does not get to see until after the Shadow Broker is defeated. It is not like he wrote Liara and Shepard's meeting on Ilium as a happy reunion of lovers.
However I can see where you are coming from with this particular viewpoint, it just wasn't a problem for me as I preferred her this way.
 
And while I agree with you that it would be very hard, if not impossible to integrate into the game without altering LotSB then I greatly enjoyed it anyway. 
 
And lastly I just assumed that Liara told her where she lived.

Edit: While I agree that there are some characteristics that Shepard must adhere to (Human, Alliance marine, Commander of the Normandy, trying to stop the Reapers etc.) anything beyond that is really open to interpetation. Some of the things you can actually do in the game seems more out-of-character for Shepard to me than what I read in Theo's (and most other's in fact) fic.
I have yet to see a Shepard in fanfic where I felt anything resembling "Wait, that is not Shepard" (granted I haven't read that many beyond those posted by members here, but the point stands). in the worst cases I have just gone "well I can't identify with that Shepard, on to the next fic".  

Modifié par Akernis, 28 mai 2012 - 11:04 .

[Yuqi]

kumquats wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

More Renegade hating? Some of the best relationship dialogue in the game with Liara is Renegade. I have a FreckleShepard who has the glowing red eyes, and pretty scars, and is at least 98% renegade.

Renegade+Liara all the way.
I'm working on my third part of my Liara loves Renegade series. Totally worth it.

Woot go team Renegade *highfives*



@Adneate

Yeah I can understand that, a millitary person would need some sort of code. Honestly a mostly paragon shepard dosn't come across as millitary to me. 

Liara actually questions a Paragons judgment on curing the genophage. Which makes sense, since the Asari have a long sighted view of things.

Renegade Shepard actually tells wrex that ' not all Krogan are like him.'


Has anyone noticed that Hacket saying the Asari are a paradoxial culture; dosn't come up if your not in a romance with Liara? Or at least Shepards "Tell me about it' response dosn't.

[PMC65]

frudi - I didn't include Zaeed or Kasumi or Prothy only because I wasn't really focusing on new character DLC's ... but I did forget the Firewalker.

All we can do is wait and see what they have, but I'm betting that for every DLC you will have 5+ Multi-player items. Oh, well.

I'm still hoping for Aria - Take back Omega.

[MidnightRaith]

PMC65 wrote...

frudi - I didn't include Zaeed or Kasumi or Prothy only because I wasn't really focusing on new character DLC's ... but I did forget the Firewalker.

All we can do is wait and see what they have, but I'm betting that for every DLC you will have 5+ Multi-player items. Oh, well.

I'm still hoping for Aria - Take back Omega.

If they make the Aria DLC is anyone else hoping that if you take Liara, she and Aria will act like they're just the greatest of friends?

[Erenbe]

Yuqi wrote...
Liara actually questions a Paragons judgment on curing the genophage. Which makes sense, since the Asari have a long sighted view of things.

Renegade Shepard actually tells wrex that ' not all Krogan are like him.'


Has anyone noticed that Hacket saying the Asari are a paradoxial culture; dosn't come up if your not in a romance with Liara? Or at least Shepards "Tell me about it' response dosn't.

Ah, I don't see why Liara shouldn't be able to be with a Renegade. I played Paragon and mainly Renegade (80-90%) and things inbetween and I thought it fit either way.

Moreover, it is highly depending on your squad selection in what way Liara reacts and comments....man, did my jaw fall to the floor when she urged me to sacrifice the Council and headshot Saren to make sure he's dead in ME1. And all of that simply because I had Kaidan in my squad and not Garrus as in the run before.  That was a surprise. 

[Akernis]

MidnightRaith wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

I'm still hoping for Aria - Take back Omega.

If they make the Aria DLC is anyone else hoping that if you take Liara, she and Aria will act like they're just the greatest of friends?

Well they did not exactly come across as friends in Redemption, if as far as your trust that comic.

Modifié par Akernis, 29 mai 2012 - 12:09 .

[MidnightRaith]

Erenbe wrote...

Ah, I don't see why Liara shouldn't be able to be with a Renegade. I played Paragon and mainly Renegade (80-90%) and things inbetween and I thought it fit either way.

Moreover, it is highly depending on your squad selection in what way Liara reacts and comments....man, did my jaw fall to the floor when she urged me to sacrifice the Council and headshot Saren to make sure he's dead in ME1. And all of that simply because I had Kaidan in my squad and not Garrus as in the run before.  That was a surprise. 

One of the things I don't really like about ME1. That doesn't really fit Liara's character at all. At least, not at that point in the series. I think that rather than having either Liara or Kaidan be for the Council's destruction but rather one of them should have been for the neutral option of simply focusing on Sovreign. Then, instead of having one of them shoot Saren in the face, they could have had Kaidan check his lifesigns. I mean, for God's sake, the man is specced towards a healer role in game. It would have been a billion times for believable for them to do that rather than have a ridiculous Paragon/Renegade scale to determine which character would do those scripted events. For some, they don't fit them at all.