56469 réponses à ce sujet

[kyg_20X6]

Arcataye wrote...

How would you feel if EC gave us "closure" and an end to her story by killing the LI (Liara) for a "dramatic and sad war scene". Well it's already possible with low EMS, but I mean in a way you can't work around it, forced scene.

I ain't saying that will happen, just wondering how people would work around that or would they just accept it?

How would you like it if I kicked you in the balls?

Not being antagonistic, I'd literally be feeling something similar to you in that instance.

Not physically, of course, just the acute, unneccessay pain caused. Actually, it'd be a second kick to the balls, given the endings. Seriously, building up all that hope during the game to dash it at the end was a kick to the quad. Then to do it again with the EC....

There is no reason to do that. Every reason not to. But, if they did, I'd probably consider one last playthrough (ME1,2,3) with Liara (trying to ignore what's going to happen), then trade my games in. I absolutely love the characters, I love Mass Effect, but I don't love depression. It'd be like seeing a friend or family member die, then replaying your experiences with them over and over again, telling them everything's going to be fine, yet you know what happens (it's already like this, to an extent, with the endings).

No thanks.

[Aristobulus500]

I would never accept a forced death scene for either Shepard or Liara, and that Shepard has to die is one of the many issues I have with the current ending. There should always be atleast a perfect, completionist option, where Shepard and his LI live to have a happy ending.

The entire theme of Mass Effect was "player choice" and to not have that as an option discards that entire notion for no reason, and turns ME from a player choice story, into a Final Fantasy "watch our story unfold" type of game.

[Akernis]

Theodoro wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

Theodoro wrote...

Hopefully it's only a writer for future DLC, not ME4. Though the inconsistency of lead writers can only harm Mass Effect - ME3 being a perfect example of that. Drew was the glue that held the series all together.

However, a new lead writer may be a step up from the guy(s) who wrote the ME3 ending.

One more reason why I want Liara's story to be definitively over, and Shepard's as well. I just don't want to see or hear from either of them again in a future installment of Mass Effect. Have both of them retire to a quiet colony or a nice city on Thessia or Earth and don't talk about them again. My headcanon can solve the rest. That way they can't mess up their stories.

Hmm my severe lack of faith in future BioWare storytelling is showing isn't it?

I feel the exact same way. While I obviously care a lot for the Mass Effect universe and everything in it and I want possible future games to be of the quality we expect, I just want to be sure that at least Shepard's story is over and not ruined by additional content. I mean, I didn't expect BioWare to do the things they did to Revan and HK-47 in TOR, but they did - what stops them from doing something similar to Shepard? That's why we need closure - and hopefully EC will bring it. And don't worry - I share your lack of faith in future BioWare storytelling a hundred percent.

Agreed, the only place I trust that Liara and Shepard can get the happiness toghether that they deserves is in my headcanon.
I have nothing against the mass effect universe being continued but for the love of the goddess and all ther wonderful characters that are in the three games leave Liara & Shepard (and the others...) alone after the ending of the third game. Even the tiniest mention of them at a later point could, and likely would ruin it for many of us.
Let us see Shepard & Liara reunite truly happily  at the end (at the very least make it a possibility) and then leave everything else to headcanon, including where they live, their careers, lifespand, possibe children, and especially their future fate.  

[adneate]

Arcataye wrote...
How would you feel if EC gave us "closure" and an end to her story by killing the LI (Liara) for a "dramatic and sad war scene". Well it's already possible with low EMS, but I mean in a way you can't work around it, forced scene.

I find it odd that anyone with a functioning brain would see the need for a mandatory "FU audience" death to make a powerful ending to ME3. Isn't Liara's time capsule the plot device that makes a total failure ending emotional and powerful, you and the galaxy fail to stop the Reapers and thousands of years later you see aliens dig up the little capsule Liara made. They listen as Liara explains the purpose of the device, how they tried to resist the Reapers with everything they had while being lead by Commander Shepard. She then does the similar explanation she did in the time capsule scene where Shepard was from, how he or she fought in battle what others thought of him or her and if you romanced Liara she adds at the end that she herself loved Shepard.

Then again I'm not as artistic as Mac Walters and Casey Hudson I thought the time capsule meant something to the plot. I thought a lot of things meant something to the plot but they don't, ME1 and ME2 don't even mean anything to the plot. Really Priority Earth is it's own game completely divorced from the rest of the narrative, it's center piece being a nonsensical conversation with a horrible child actor before it hard cuts to black.

[Theodoro]

I hope they don't pull off a Halo and make this a quadrilogy instead of the intended trilogy - for Shepard and his/her crew's journey, that is. I don't have much faith that BioWare can live up to the title of Mass Effect anymore with a future installment, so I'd rather have ME3 fixed and done with than an additional game which has even a bigger chance to fail. Not to mention that EA's grip on BioWare is obviously tightening.

A ME4 has to account for choices across three games - ME3 couldn't even do that for ME2 and ME1. It either has to be a gigantic game that would need to be in development for a decade to be at least decent or it'll look past a lot of important content and ultimately fail at delivering.

[lillitheris]

How did we get back to the endings again?

[Theodoro]

adneate wrote...
I find it odd that anyone with a functioning brain would see the need for a mandatory "FU audience" death to make a powerful ending to ME3.

Exactly how I feel - and we have a perfect example - Mass Effect 2's Suicide Mission - probably my most favorite ending to a game ever. In any way you look at it, you can't deny that it is powerful and has an enormous impact. If you've failed at doing your job, you die, or some of your crew die, and the ending is striking - but if you do everything right, your crew lives, and it's that much more powerful of an ending - and it's so uplifting. Seriously, for me, the SM never gets old for that precise reason.

And ME3's ending would have been the same, but on a much larger scale. If you've united the whole galaxy, then you deserve a happy ending in which Shepard and most of his/her crew, including the LI, live. If you've done your job half-way, then there will be casualties, and if you haven't done so at all - then you'll get yourself a depressing ending. If done right, either outcome has an impact, but the satisfaction that you've succeeded in your mission and seeing the reward of your hard work makes for a much, much more powerful ending of a trilogy. And in ME3 right now there's no possibility for that to happen. 

lillitheris wrote...

How did we get back to the endings again?

I don't think we'll ever completely abandon the topic, unfortunately, at least not until the EC is released and we're either pleased at the result or our hopes are squashed for good.

Modifié par Theodoro, 30 mai 2012 - 08:00 .

[Akernis]

Theodoro wrote...
However, having done everything right across ME1-ME3, there really needs to be an option in which both the LI and Shepard get to live. I didn't work my ass off with all the War Asset rating for the death and doom scenes to be forced regardless whether you have everything right or most of everything wrong.

This, I want my happy ending together Liara, I won't accept anythig less. The possibility of a terrible endiing where everyone dies at the hands of the Reapers won't even bother me as long as I am able to get a good ending with Liara that makes everything worthwhile.

lillitheris wrote...

How did we get back to the endings again?

 I did not even notice  

Modifié par Akernis, 30 mai 2012 - 08:05 .

[Tyranniac]

Theodoro wrote...

I hope they don't pull off a Halo and make this a quadrilogy instead of the intended trilogy - for Shepard and his/her crew's journey, that is..

There's no Halo quadrilogy. There's the original trilogy with Halo: CE, Halo 2, and Halo 3, with its own story arc. There's Halo 3: ODST that is an expansion to Halo 3 with a smaller side story, there's Halo: Reach that is a prequel but with a different main character. Then there's the upcoming Reclaimer trilogy, again, with its own story arc. No quadrilogy.

Modifié par Tyranniac, 30 mai 2012 - 08:17 .

[Theodoro]

Tyranniac wrote...

Theodoro wrote...

I hope they don't pull off a Halo and make this a quadrilogy instead of the intended trilogy - for Shepard and his/her crew's journey, that is..

There's no Halo quadrilogy. There's the original trilogy with Halo: CE, Halo 2, and Halo 3, with its own story arc. There's Halo 3: ODST that is an expansion to Halo 3 with a smaller side story, there's Halo: Reach that is a prequel but with a different main character. Then there's the upcoming Reclaimer trilogy, again, with its own story arc. No quadrilogy.

My mistake, then. I haven't played Halo, I've just been hearing it over and over again across the forums when people say that Mass Effect was designed to be a trilogy and that BioWare wouldn't make ME4. To that, others respond that that's how Halo was intended to be, as well, and yet, Halo 4 was announced.

[Wulfram]

I'm OK with Shepard dying, not OK with LI dying.

[Arcataye]

Tyranniac wrote...

I... don't know. 
Seriously... I really don't know.

Me neither, that's why I asked.

Aristobulus500 wrote...

The entire theme of Mass Effect was "player choice" and to not have that as an option discards that entire notion for no reason, and turns ME from a player choice story, into a Final Fantasy "watch our story unfold" type of game.

"Mass Effect 1 played like a game. Mass Effect 3 played like a movie." -someone on reddit

adneate wrote...

Isn't Liara's time capsule the plot device that makes a total failure ending emotional and powerful, you and the galaxy fail to stop the Reapers and thousands of years later you see aliens dig up the little capsule Liara made. They listen as Liara explains the purpose of the device, how they tried to resist the Reapers with everything they had while being lead by Commander Shepard. She then does the similar explanation she did in the time capsule scene where Shepard was from, how he or she fought in battle what others thought of him or her and if you romanced Liara she adds at the end that she herself loved Shepard.

First thing I thought about when I saw Liara's capsule was the pre-release comment by Mike Gamble "...allowing the Reapers to win the battle for earth.".
What you wrote there is what I was honestly expecting as one of the outcomes.

The capsule scene was very powerful and it was nice to see Liara thinking that far in to the future while everyone else was busy thinking about winning or losing the war.
"Because of their long lifespan, asari tend to have a "long view" not common in other races."

lillitheris wrote...

How did we get back to the endings again?

I posted a question about what would you think if there was a forced Liara death scene in EC.

Modifié par Arcataye, 30 mai 2012 - 08:26 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

I'm going to post this again. 1) because it might have been lost in the thread, 2) because there's been too much Javik and not enough Liara, 3) because it's awesome!

Just bumping in to say how much I adore this GIF. <3

kumquats wrote...

rubynorman wrote...

There is another reason I don't like Javik: people ship Liara and Javik together.... T'Sovik whatever... hddhvgfhhdggvf

I
actually ship Javik+Aethyta since I read some comics on Deviantart. I'm
sure Liara would want another half-sister, who is part Prothean. xD

Javik/Aethyta?

Have these folk even met?

and off-topic: Going to play KOTOR 2 for the first time now, hopefully most my companions won't totally suck like in the old game.

Wish me luck! 

[Theodoro]

Lizardviking wrote...

and off-topic: Going to play KOTOR 2 for the first time now, hopefully most my companions won't totally suck like in the old game.

Wish me luck! 

Companions sucking in KOTOR 1? This is an outrage!
Well, fair enough, if you thought so, then I think you'll be pleased with KOTOR 2's companions. Good luck either way!

[IliyaMoroumetz]

Lizardviking wrote...

and off-topic: Going to play KOTOR 2 for the first time now, hopefully most my companions won't totally suck like in the old game.

Wish me luck! 

You WILL love Kreia.  She has got to be one of the best, if not THE best, female character in a video game ever.  You will see why.

[Robhuzz]

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

and off-topic: Going to play KOTOR 2 for the first time now, hopefully most my companions won't totally suck like in the old game.

Wish me luck! 

You WILL love Kreia.  She has got to be one of the best, if not THE best, female character in a video game ever.  You will see why.

You mean I'm the only one who thought she was kind of creepy right from the start?

[AlexMBrennan]

Javik/Aethyta?

Have these folk even met?

You might want to look up the definition of "to ship"

[Tyranniac]

Wulfram wrote...

I'm OK with Shepard dying, not OK with LI dying.

I'm not. Liara alive without Shepard would be just awful and I'm not the least okay with it.

Theodoro wrote...

My mistake, then. I haven't played Halo, I've just been hearing it over and over again across the forums when people say that Mass Effect was designed to be a trilogy and that BioWare wouldn't make ME4. To that, others respond that that's how Halo was intended to be, as well, and yet, Halo 4 was announced.

 

Ah I see, seems there are some misinformed people out there then! Good thing I could clarify. 

[Han Shot First]

In your opinions, what does Liara think of the following:
Joker
Earth
The Citadel
Legion
Mordin
Kirrahe
The Mako
Miranda
Jewelry

Joker -  His jokes would more often than not either grate on her or go completely over her head. I imagine Liara would probably find Joker a little annoying at times, but would otherwise like and respect his skill as a pilot.

Earth - I imagine she would be fond of it overall, though she'd probably find it's cities to be overcrowded compared to Thessia. IIRC Thessia is not much smaller than Earth but has something like half the population in ME3. Being a space faring species for so long the Asari have probably solved the problem of overcrowding on their home planet by colonization. Historically and culturally significant sites like Pompeii, the Pyramids, or Machu Picchu would probably interest her most.

The Citadel - Many of the dialogue quips she has aboard the Citadel in ME1 are critical, so overall I get the impression that it isn't her favorite place. She also finds it overcrowded. It contrasts sharpely with Ashley, who often goes on about how amazing the Citadel is. Liara does appear however to like the area around the Presidium lake. So my guess would be that she likes the Presidium but isn't crazy about the Wards. I guess that means she'd find the Citadel an ok place to visit, but not someplace she'd want to live.

Legion - Liara is somewhere between paragon & paragade on the morality scale, so like paragon Shep she'd probably come around to the idea of accepting Legion as being as much a part of the squad as any of the organics, and would favor peaceful cooperation with the Geth.

Mordin - She'd probably find some of his quirks a little odd, but I think they'd get on well enough. They both are intellectuals and scientists, so I can see them connecting on that level.

Kirrahe - She'd probably respect him. We don't really know much about Kirrahe as a character though, other than he likes to 'hold the line.' So it is hard to say.

The MAKO - She'd find it to be a superior vehicle to the featherhead.

Miranda -  They seemed to get along well enough in Redemption, though it was more of a 'business' relationship than a friendship. I don't see them becoming the closest of friends as they have some fairly significant differences in personality and outlook, and Liara is not crazy about Cerberus. That being said I think they'd at least connect intellectually and have a decent professional relationship with each other.

Jewelry - In game we've only seen Liara in one instance when she wasn't wearing armor or a lab coat, but in that one instance she looked very feminine & elegant. When the rare opportunities arose for her to take a break from work, I imagine she'd be quite stylish and that would occasionally include jewelry.

How would you feel if EC gave us "closure" and an end to her story by killing the LI (Liara) for a "dramatic and sad war scene". Well it's already possible with low EMS, but I mean in a way you can't work around it, forced scene.

I wouldn't be crazy about a scripted death scene involving Shepard's LI.

I'd be cool with the possibility of either Shepard or his LI dying, but I wouldn't want it to be scripted or mandatory. That being said I also wouldn't want an ending where everyone on the team survives.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 30 mai 2012 - 09:14 .

[Theodoro]

Robhuzz wrote...

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

and off-topic: Going to play KOTOR 2 for the first time now, hopefully most my companions won't totally suck like in the old game.

Wish me luck! 

You WILL love Kreia.  She has got to be one of the best, if not THE best, female character in a video game ever.  You will see why.

You mean I'm the only one who thought she was kind of creepy right from the start?

Well, it's hard not to think of her as creepy from the way you're introduced to her! Nevertheless, she's one of the most complex characters I've seen - I have to agree with IliyaMoroumetz. Trying to indulge her is always a pain, though I guess that's one of the reasons why she's so interesting.

[IliyaMoroumetz]

Theodoro wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...
You mean I'm the only one who thought she was kind of creepy right from the start?

Well, it's hard not to think of her as creepy from the way you're introduced to her! Nevertheless, she's one of the most complex characters I've seen - I have to agree with IliyaMoroumetz. Trying to indulge her is always a pain, though I guess that's one of the reasons why she's so interesting.

Indeed.  When you think that you got her pinned down, she surprises you by how many moves ahead she plans.

[Akernis]

Han Shot First wrote...
Joker -  His jokes would more often than not either grate on her or go completely over her head. I imagine Liara would probably find Joker a little annoying at times, but would otherwise like and respect his skill as a pilot.

Earth - I imagine she would be fond of it overall, though she'd probably find it's cities to be overcrowded compared to Thessia. IIRC Thessia is not much smaller than Earth but has something like half the population in ME3. Being a space faring species for so long the Asari have probably solved the problem of overcrowding on their home planet by colonization. Historically and culturally significant sites like Pompeii, the Pyramids, or Machu Picchu would probably interest her the most.

Mordin - She'd probably find some of his quirks a little odd, but I think they'd get on well enough. They both are intellectuals and scientists, so I can see them connecting on that level.

Kirrahe - She'd probably respect him. We don't really know much about Kirrahe as a character though, other than he likes to 'hold the line.' So it is hard to say.

Jewelry - In game we've only seen Liara in one instance when she wasn't wearing armor or a lab coat, but in that one instance she looked very feminine & elegant. When the rare oppurtunities arose for her to take a break from work, I imagine she'd be quite stylish and that would occasionally include jewelry.

I agree with you on these.

Han Shot First wrote...
The Citadel - Many of the dialogue quips she has aboard the Citadel in ME1 are critical, so overall I get the impression that it isn't her favorite place. She also finds it overcrowded. It contrasts sharpely with Ashley, who often goes on about how amazing the Citadel is. Liara does appear however to like the area around the Presidium lake. So my guess would be that she likes the Presidium but isn't crazy about the Wards. I guess that means she'd find the Citadel and ok place to visit, but not someplace she'd want to live.

That was not my impression, she is only negative in the wards, and there it was overcrowding and high music in the clubs, which generally just holds true to her as a rather solitary person.
On the Presidum and in the Council Chambers I remember her being quite positive, mostly about the architecture but still.
And in ME3 she outright goes:
Liara: "I love this part of the Presidium..."

Han Shot First wrote...
Legion - Liara is somewhere between paragon & paragade on the morality scale, so like paragon Shep she'd probably come around to the idea of accepting Legion as being as much a part of the squad as any of the organics, and would favor peaceful cooperation with the Geth.

Agreed with you here, Liara is the only one that actually is sad (except EDI) if the Geth are destroyed on Rannoch, so I imagine that she could fast have warmed to Legion. I see no reason why she would have anything againts him. She is shown to be very accepting of others in general and I could easily see her being friends with Legion, or as close as one can come with a Geth.

Han Shot First wrote...
Miranda -  They seemed to get along well enough in Redemption, though it was more of a 'business' relationship than a friendship. I don't see them becoming the closest of friends as they have some fairly significant differences in personality and outlook, and Liara is not crazy about Cerberus. That being said I think they'd at least connect intellectually and have a decent professional relationship with each other.

I think that Liara quite respects Miranda and vice versa though I never got the impression that Liara liked her on a personal level. I think that she would have no problem working with or helping Miranda but I don't really see them becoming friends.

[PMC65]

Akernis - You might want to re-read what Han wrote about the Citadel as you actually agreed with him.

The ending? I really don't care anymore myself. Sorry. I just wanted victorious happy (everyone lives), victorious sad (Some die) and plain sad (Shepard dies). That's it in a nutshell. Did not need 262 different type of endings or whatever they claimed.

[Jebel Krong]

Theodoro wrote...

Hopefully it's only a writer for future DLC, not ME4. Though the inconsistency of lead writers can only harm Mass Effect - ME3 being a perfect example of that. Drew was the glue that held the series all together.

However, a new lead writer may be a step up from the guy(s) who wrote the ME3 ending.

what works for the games is having a multitude of good writers. neither drew nor mac are the best in my opinion - both are fairly unoriginal. having a team balances out the good/bad.

edited for top image as per your custom:


credit: saturnsgate

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 30 mai 2012 - 10:23 .

[Akernis]

PMC65 wrote...

Akernis - You might want to re-read what Han wrote about the Citadel as you actually agreed with him.

My bad, don't know what went wrong there, the last couple of lines didn't even registre with me.

Modifié par Akernis, 30 mai 2012 - 10:22 .