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[Han Shot First]

I usually don't follow the voice actors, but I'm glad I watched that video.

Ali Hillis seemed like she legitimately likes the character, rather than voicing her just being a j-o-b.

[lillitheris]

Barquiel wrote...

Morinth was as strong as Samara in ME2. Samara is ranked too high or Morinth too low.

The fight wasn’t even close, really.

[Theodoro]

Han Shot First wrote...

I usually don't follow the voice actors, but I'm glad I watched that video.

Ali Hillis seemed like she legitimately likes the character, rather than voicing her just being a j-o-b.

Yeah, I agree. And it shows in the video in her knowledge of the character.

Han Shot First wrote...

In some cases I can understand their frustration, even if the way they are going about voicing it is silly. If they are fans of Jack or Thane for example, I can understand the disappointment at the lack of content. It makes less sense when the bashing is coming from fans of Tali, when she has been a squadmate in all 3 games (compared to 2 for Liara) and did not suffer from a lack of content in Mass Effect 3.

Oh, believe me, I totally understand why they are disappointed and I share that feeling since I'm also a fan of a lot of other characters and a couple of romances that didn't get as much screen time. However, I don't go around bashing on the ones that did. How is that helpful to anyone instead of pointing out the real problem?

Modifié par Theodoro, 01 juin 2012 - 05:28 .

[TheDonk95]

Theodoro wrote...

TheDonk95 wrote...

DarkCloudd wrote...

rubynorman wrote...

Everytime Ali Hillis uses her Liara's voice in interviews, I have goosebumps. She said "Thank you, commander. I will miss you" and it broke my heart. She is really funny and has a passion for her work.

This definately, I loved that youtube video when she did that. I would have been a puddle on the floor if she would have said they "you stayed loyal to me right?" line in her Liara voice too.

Link please?

Here - Ali Hillis shows up at 10:50.

Oh my god, Ali is just so adorable. I'll miss hearing her sweet Liara voice. That "Thank you, commander" at the end was really heavy on me

[Barquiel]

lillitheris wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Morinth was as strong as Samara in ME2. Samara is ranked too high or Morinth too low.

The fight wasn’t even close, really.

They pretty much came to a stalemate, iirc.

I haven't tested this myself, but I've read Morinth killed Samara if you don't import a ME2 save/don't recruit Samara.

Modifié par Barquiel, 01 juin 2012 - 05:41 .

[Han Shot First]

Theodoro wrote...

Oh, believe me, I totally understand why they are disappointed and I share that feeling since I'm also a fan of a lot of other characters and a couple of romances that didn't get as much screen time. However, I don't go around bashing on the ones that did. How is that helpful to anyone instead of pointing out the real problem?

It isn't, but gamers in general aren't very good at constructive criticism. They're also often illogical.

As an example there were some people bashing Liara in the Samara thread, as if Liara in any way had any impact on Samara not returning in ME3 as a romance option. It was never the intent of the writers to begin with to make Samara a romance option. She settles the matter in Mass Effect 2 when she tells Shepard, "In another time, another life." By another life she didn't mean "...in mass Effect 3." The ironic part is that if it were up to some of her fans, they'd completely destroy her character and the beauty of that scene by having her be a romance option in ME3.

[IliyaMoroumetz]

Semi-Liara related;

I just finished and posted a new story, entitled The Richest of them All

In it, we have Liara's father and half-hanar sister that I created myself using a few liberties.   Enjoy!

[Fox In The Box]

Since we're on the topic of Liarabashing, there is one criticism of her that puzzles me a little. People keep accusing her of making constant passes at Shepard/trying to get in Shepards pants. While she did make a move in ME1, I can't recall ever having her hit on me in latter games where I was romancing someone else. Did I miss something?

[Theodoro]

Han Shot First wrote...
As an example there were some people bashing Liara in the Samara thread, as if Liara in any way had any impact on Samara not returning in ME3 as a romance option. It was never the intent of the writers to begin with to make Samara a romance option. She settles the matter in Mass Effect 2 when she tells Shepard, "In another time, another life." By another life she didn't mean "...in mass Effect 3." The ironic part is that if it were up to some of her fans, they'd completely destroy her character and the beauty of that scene by having her be a romance option in ME3.

I can't agree with you more - I haven't personally tried it out myself, but I've watched the video of Shepard attempting to romance her and the scene is so bittersweet and so well-written. It would also be unrealistic if everybody could be an option, especially in Samara's case - who gives a legitimate reason for not wanting to pursue that with Shepard. To retcon that would just be a fan service and it would cheapen the ME2 scene, and also makes me like Samara more for being different and standing her ground. And yeah - why would they blame Liara for that? Because she's an asari?

Fox In The Box wrote...

Since we're on the topic of Liarabashing, there is one criticism of her that puzzles me a little. People keep accusing her of making constant passes at Shepard/trying to get in Shepards pants. While she did make a move in ME1, I can't recall ever having her hit on me in latter games where I was romancing someone else. Did I miss something?

Liara never tries to hit on Shepard in ME2 and ME3. Never. For a new romance in ME3, Shepard has to be the one to make the first move. That is just one more example of the petty reasons (and in this case lies) which people use to take out their anger on her.

Modifié par Theodoro, 01 juin 2012 - 05:45 .

[PMC65]

Theodoro wrote...

CrimsonN7 wrote...
I can't be the only one really peeved at all the moronic Liara hate threads that keep popping up most days.:pinched:Seriously why can't these people find sometime more constructive to do on the forums? There are plenty of characters I don't like for one reason or another but I don't go out of my way to create hate threads and spew short-sighted garbage! Ah well at least this thread is a haven from the stupidity of the rest of the BSN:D

Tell me about it. I've learned to ignore them and instead laugh at their ridiculous reasons for bashing on Liara. I have seen many hate threads, but not one with any constructive criticism, or one that actually points out the real issue - the lack of content for other characters that Liara apparently is at fault for. Instead, people direct their disappointment for reasons I can't possibly fathom at the character who got the most content. I'm sorry, but there are many near-sighted people on the forums that I almost feel sorry for them. The best word to describe them is childish as they result to petty insults to defend their position instead of a civilized discussion.

Sorry if that sounded harsh, but I just came back from reading one such 'insightful' thread.

I avoid those threads altogether ... especially since it has made me not like certain posters that prior were okay in my book. Hating on characters only makes the poster look bad and not the character. I have no problem with people not caring for a character but these posters ... ugly words.

When that vitriol spreads into a fan thread is where I have a problem. I've stopped hanging out in one fan thread because there are a few posters there that really hate Liara and they go off on these tangents. And there were some really great peeps in there ... fun, friendly. Just a few bad apples and poof I'm outta there. If that started happening here as well ...

Life is too short for hatred or feeding someone else's hatred.

Exception: I do approve of posting hate threads on Karmen and Moreeman.

[jtav]

No, she doesn't make a move. But it's plain as day she's besotted with Shep whether or not s/he returns the feelings. And there are some lines or actions that are creepy or odd. And the fact that Liara is the canon confidant really annoys some people.

[Aristobulus500]

Oh no a character is consistent what a terrible thing!

A lot of that hate is people just strawmanning her and making **** up. People really go out of their way to find reasons to hate her.

She's not "forced" on Shepard, but oh gosh she's friendly, the **** is this!

These are the kinds of people that think any sort of friendly interaction is romantic and they can't tell the difference between the two.

Modifié par Aristobulus500, 01 juin 2012 - 05:51 .

[Theodoro]

jtav wrote...

No, she doesn't make a move. But it's plain as day she's besotted with Shep whether or not s/he returns the feelings. And there are some lines or actions that are creepy or odd. And the fact that Liara is the canon confidant really annoys some people.

Creepy? Odd? Such as?

There is one thing I'll agree on and I'll say that some of the scenes - such as the London gift scene - should have been romance-exclusive. I certainly thought they were when I played through ME3 the first time.

For others, being there for Shepard because she's a friend or giving him/her information about the Crucible because she has the most knowledge about the device does not mean that she's pursuing anything with him/her. People can't tell the difference.

[Han Shot First]

And yeah - why would they blame Liara for that? Because she's an asari?

They've taken to calling Liara 'the child' in that thread. It is silly.

Fox In The Box wrote...

Since we're on the topic of Liarabashing, there is one criticism of her that puzzles me a little. People keep accusing her of making constant passes at Shepard/trying to get in Shepards pants. While she did make a move in ME1, I can't recall ever having her hit on me in latter games where I was romancing someone else. Did I miss something?

No, in Mass Effect 3 Shepard has to pursue Liara to end up in a relationship with her. It is just another example of typical BSN exaggeration and overreaction.

The only issue with Liara that I can recall is in Mass Effect 1. When she expresses interest in Shepard the player has the option or pursuing it, going with a relatively 'neutral' rejection, or 'renegade' rejection. The renegade rejection was bugged and the game would continue with Liara acting as if Shepard was interested in her. But even so, you can't base character traits on bugs. The allegations of Liara being a stalker are fairly ridiculous.

In the end it also isn't all that different from Jack or Tali in Mass Effect 2. Both interpret Shepard being friendly towards them as romantic interest. Even when Shepard tries to let Tali down easy by saying, "It would be too dangerous," she takes it as a sign that Shepard is interested, but doesn't want to risk her health. In the next conversation she'll demand you make a choice, if you for example are pursuing Miranda.

[jtav]

Theodoro wrote...

jtav wrote...

No, she doesn't make a move. But it's plain as day she's besotted with Shep whether or not s/he returns the feelings. And there are some lines or actions that are creepy or odd. And the fact that Liara is the canon confidant really annoys some people.

Creepy? Odd? Such as?

Keeping the armor and  some of her lines to Tali if you dumped one for the other. And well, the general sense that she's the most important person to Shep regardless of the player's feelings, so every gesture of friendly affection grates. If I don't like Tali, my
choices can reflect that. If I don't like Liara, too bad.

[TheDonk95]

Just as the two gentlemen above me said(Aristo and Theodoro), Liara was never forced on Shepard. I can somehow agree that she might be the developer's favorite romance, since she had the best romance scenes in all the games, and Liara is the only person in Mass Effect 3 that is naked during the sex scene. But forced? Nope. That's something called "being friendly". Since Mass Effect 1 she was this shy, cute and innocent alien scientist that was just adorable and friendly. Only then she was the one that making the moves towards the romance. But in Mass Effect 2 and 3 you had to do all the hard work to win her heart. She was never forced. You always had the option to tell her that you only want to be her friend, and that's where their relationship ends and you can continue to pursue after Tali in peace. Mass Effect 1, as I said was an exeption since it was pretty obvious that she is the canon romance in this game. She had alot more detailed and long romance scene, more focus was put on her during the entire game, and she was the most well detailed character. Now, that's not a bad thing. If there are so many people out there that absolutley fell in love with her like me, that means Bioware was succesfull with Liara. If one character managed to conquer my heart in just one game, that character is very well done.

Modifié par TheDonk95, 01 juin 2012 - 06:05 .

[Fox In The Box]

I figured Liara acting as Shepard's confidant was more about giving the players an opportunity to let their Shepards' feelings and struggles be acknowledged in-game than anything else. One way to do that is having other characters ask how s/he feels. Liara, being compassionate as well as unkillable and someone Shepard knows from way back, makes for an obvious choice. Though it would have been nice for the respective LI's to be given that position, but that was probably lack of resources. I think Bioware shot themselves in the foot by having so many LI's/characters and so many different outcomes for each. Too many variables, not enough zots to account for them properly, I suppose.

Modifié par Fox In The Box, 01 juin 2012 - 06:09 .

[Han Shot First]

jtav wrote...


Keeping the armor and  some of her lines to Tali if you dumped one for the other. And well, the general sense that she's the most important person to Shep regardless of the player's feelings, so every gesture of friendly affection grates. If I don't like Tali, my
choices can reflect that. If I don't like Liara, too bad.

Keeping the armor is not bizarre and does not necessarily indicate romantic attachment. In fact holding onto mementos from someone close to you who passed is a fairly common and completely normal response to grief. If not romanced Liara still respects Shepard as her 'Commander' and views him as a friend and comrade-in-arms.

I figured Liara acting as Shepard's confidant was more about giving the players an opportunity to let their Shepards' feelings and struggles be acknowledged in-game than anything else. One way to do that is having other characters ask how s/he feels. Liara, being compassionate as well as unkillable and someone Shepard knows from way back, makes for an obvious choice. Though it would have been nice for the respective LI's to be given that position, but that was probably lack of resources.

It also always been a part of Liara's personality from Mass Effect 1. If romanced, she acts as a shoulder for him to lean on Shepard when he loses the Normandy.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 01 juin 2012 - 06:12 .

[adneate]

jtav wrote...
If I don't like Tali, my choices can reflect that. If I don't like Liara, too bad.

Actually you can't not like anyone, you can pretend to by not talking to them but once you do Shepard automatically likes them. Garrus and Tali are always friendly to Shepard in ME2 even if you treated Garrus like dirt in ME1 and refused to give Tali the geth data. Ignoring =/= Dislike.

You can't tell anyone off at best you ignore them unless the game demands you talk to them or they show up. However not liking someone isn't really an option, not one that sticks at any rate. BioWare has a very lazy design philosophy which is any content that isn't going to be seen by 95% of the players is not worth investing any time or money in.

[jtav]

Probably. But they really should have picked a non-LI for it. I feel like I spend an entire game having "Are you sure you don't want to romance Liara?" shouted in my ear. Not fun. And I like her!

Edit: I can literally drive Tali to suicide. I can murder Mordin. Heck, if I absolutely can't stand someone, I can remove them from my game somehow. Not Liara.

Modifié par jtav, 01 juin 2012 - 06:13 .

[kumquats]

You can get on Wrex bad side and Joker. I didn't encounter anyone else, where you actually can break the friendship. But I haven't tested too much with Garrus and Tali. tbh.
Maybe that's the next thing on my list.

[TheDonk95]

jtav wrote...

Probably. But they really should have picked a non-LI for it. I feel like I spend an entire game having "Are you sure you don't want to romance Liara?" shouted in my ear. Not fun. And I like her!

I can kinda understand what you're saying, but that's not an excuse to say that she is deliberatley forced upon you in Mass Effect 3. It is obvious that she is the developer's favorite character, or atleast one of the most favorite, but no one is forcing you to romance her or even to like her. Everytime there is a dialogue between you and her, you can just pick Renegade and be mean to her, and you can just never visit her at her cabin, not even after Thessia. But I kinda understand what your'e saying that someone is shouting in your ear to romance her. I can't really explain it, but I understand what you're saying.

[PMC65]

jtav wrote...

No, she doesn't make a move. But it's plain as day she's besotted with Shep whether or not s/he returns the feelings. And there are some lines or actions that are creepy or odd. And the fact that Liara is the canon confidant really annoys some people.

Its all about individual perspective ... isn't it? If we hate a character their presence will seem even more intrusive and therefore larger and vice versa. Not saying that Liara did not get a good amount of screen time. It's just that hating a character or resenting a character will skew what you see.

Pretty much liking all characters ... When I played my throwaway Shepard I felt that Garrus was made to be Shepard's confidant and support system. Everytime I turned around the guy was there. Not that I minded but for me it felt like I spent more time with Garrus then any other character ... Liara came in a very close second though, but she didn't seem to really be Shepard's support system ... Tali, third ... Wrex, fourth ... Mordin, fifth ... VS, sixth ... Miranda, seventh ... and then the rest.

Who knows how it would have felt playing with different Shepards or just in re-playing it.

[adneate]

jtav wrote...
Edit: I can literally drive Tali to suicide. I can murder Mordin. Heck, if I absolutely can't stand someone, I can remove them from my game somehow. Not Liara.

That's not the same though as dislike, that's killing and Shepard's motives for those killings aren't because they don't like Tali or Mordin. They are two different things, you have the choice to kill characters that the developers allow you to kill under their terms. You do not have the option to have Shepard kill them because they don't like them. There is no mechanic in the game to measure the relationship between Shepard and the crew, therefore they just default to friends. Anything unfriendly you do is just ignored in the next game.

BioWare games have always involved more illusionary choices than actual choices.

[Theodoro]

TheDonk95 wrote...

jtav wrote...

Probably. But they really should have picked a non-LI for it. I feel like I spend an entire game having "Are you sure you don't want to romance Liara?" shouted in my ear. Not fun. And I like her!

I can kinda understand what you're saying, but that's not an excuse to say that she is deliberatley forced upon you in Mass Effect 3. It is obvious that she is the developer's favorite character, or atleast one of the most favorite, but no one is forcing you to romance her or even to like her. Everytime there is a dialogue between you and her, you can just pick Renegade and be mean to her, and you can just never visit her at her cabin, not even after Thessia. But I kinda understand what your'e saying that someone is shouting in your ear to romance her. I can't really explain it, but I understand what you're saying.

No, that's actually what I don't understand. Other characters, like Ashley and Kaidan in Mass Effect 1, and Jacob and Miranda in Mass Effect 2 also get the same amount of attention Liara gets in Mass Effect 3 as people who help Shepard along the way since they're essential to the plot. Yet how come I don't hear anyone saying 'Are you sure you don't want to romance Miranda?' in Mass Effect 2 the same way some people do, given how much of screen time she has and her important role in the game?

What I don't understand is how the presence of a character means that BioWare is trying to get you to romance that character? Should everybody just distance themselves from Shepard, never say a word to him/her throughout the entire game so that the player doesn't feel like he/she's being forced into a romance with them?

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

Semi-Liara related;

I just finished and posted a new story, entitled The Richest of them All

In it, we have Liara's father and half-hanar sister that I created myself using a few liberties.   Enjoy!

Thanks for sharing this, I loved it! I posted a review there.

Modifié par Theodoro, 01 juin 2012 - 06:24 .