56469 réponses à ce sujet

[Arcataye]

frudi wrote...

jtav wrote...

Keeping the armor and  some of her lines to Tali if you dumped one for the other. And well, the general sense that she's the most important person to Shep regardless of the player's feelings, so every gesture of friendly affection grates. If I don't like Tali, my choices can reflect that. If I don't like Liara, too bad.

Except that is a general problem, not limited to Liara.

I never cared much for Kaidan, but my Shep kept acting like losing him on Virmire was the worst thing she ever had to go through. Even when Mordin died on Tuchanka and Liara came to check on Shep soon after, I could only mention missing Kaidan, not a word about my second favourite character that had just died a hero. I was pissed at the inconsistency, but my anger was directed at Bioware, not Kaidan.

I didn't care much for Vega at first either, but I still thought his nicknames were kind of cute and saw no problem with him being somewhat informal. But somehow that lead to Shep constantly flirting with him (even if it was just as a joke), which I certainly didn't approve of but couldn't do a damn thing about due to auto-dialogues. But once again, I blame Bioware, not Vega (which I eventually even grew quite fond off).


As for Liara, I've always believed that she loves Shepard even if her feelings aren't returned; but she never pushes herself on Shep or tries to interfere with her relationships with others. I think it's actually a nice touch, as sad as it also is, to include the idea of unrequited love in the game.

Some people will obviously be uncomfortable with the idea that Liara might be in love with their Shepard no matter what; I can certainly understand that, after all such situations IRL also tend to get awkward. I also understand that people feel that their LI didn't get the attention they deserved; honestly, that can be said about all the LIs, even Liara or Tali, obviously we all wish for more content with our favourite characters.

What I will never understand though is people literally hating characters. There's characters I'm pretty much ambivalent about; there's characters that have some sides or traits I truly dislike, but also have other positive traits that kind of balance them out; and there's even characters that I may disagree with almost every time they open their mouth. But I can appreciate every single one of them and try to understand the situations and events that made them who they are. I can honestly say that there is not a single member of the Normandy crew in all three games that I could even say I really dislike, let alone hate. I mean, at least to me hate is a really strong emotion, I just don't see any justification for going to such extremes with any of the characters, none of them deserves it.

Agree.

I too thought it was weird when Shepard said she was thinking about Kaidan. No I was not!
Vega, same thing. He constantly made me wish I would've picked "No nicknames!" instead of the positive dialogue.
But as you said, it's not the characters fault. After all every character has their purpose and their own story.
There is no character in all the games I would hate, not even the Catalyst kid. I might dislike, but not hate.

I think it's actually a nice touch, as sad as it also is, to include the idea of unrequited love in the game.

I wish many other characters had that too. Not all of them, but I'm sure it would work fine with some of them. Would make some love triangle drama too, hah.

Some people will obviously be uncomfortable with the idea that Liara might be in love with their Shepard no matter what; I can certainly understand that, after all such situations IRL also tend to get awkward.

But do they think the same way everywhere? Do they hate and want to kill anyone who shows them affection IRL when they don't feel the same way as the other?

I know that is an extreme example, but anyways. I just don't get why would someone get the urge to kill someone else, even if it's just a game where killing is "okay and fun".

The only explanation I can think of right now is that they're really not that invested to the story and the universe. They see all the characters as objects to destroy or do whatever. I know people who played the series romance decisions based on how appealing the character model was, not caring about the character itself at all. Only aiming for the sex scene to see them naked and to get the achievement.

I personally find that kind of play style horrible, it does not make sense to me at all, especially in a character driven story like this.

Modifié par Arcataye, 01 juin 2012 - 07:50 .

[Theodoro]

Han Shot First wrote...
ME3 is just as bad however in that the Reapers respond to the failures of Sovereign, the Human Reaper plot, and the Alpha Relay Plot, by simply pushing the pedal to the metal and flying at normal FTL speeds to the Milky Way. If the Reapers could simply fly into the Milky Way within a few months span, it makes no sense why they didn't do just that when the Keepers failed to respond to their signal.

Yeah, when Harbinger said that they 'would find another way' at the end of ME2, I didn't think that he meant that they would simply fly from dark space to the nearest Mass Relay. Why go through all the trouble if they could just do that - not only in ME2, but in ME1, as well? When they do in Arrival, that's where things start going down the drain, not with ME2 itself. The writers simply couldn't figure out another way for the Reapers to arrive other than the Citadel relay, so they went with the easiest route possible.

[Han Shot First]

IMO what they should have done with ME3 is have it revealed that the Batarians built a relay. We know of course that the Leviathon of Dis turned out to be a partially dead Reaper, which ended up indoctrinating Batarians in high positions in both the government and military. The Batarians build their own relay with great fanfare, boasting about their technological superiority over all other species. Meanwhile the whole thing was orchestrated by Reaper sleeper agents, with the technical know-how being delivered to the Batarians by the Reapers themselves. When the Batarians activate their new relay, they find it links to Dark Space and the entire Reaper fleet jumps through. Bam, Batarians get hammered...cue the start of Mass Effect 3.

It would have had the added bonus of the knowledge of relay construction still possibily being out there & available, after the relay network gets obliterated in the end game.

[aletto]

Concerning Arrival... I always wondered what would have happened if the Asteroid hit the Relay after the Reapers had gone through... I mean, ME3 (+ending) would be completely obsolete, right? RIGHT?

Modifié par aletto, 01 juin 2012 - 07:54 .

[adneate]

Han Shot First wrote...
ME3 is just as bad however in that the Reapers respond to the failures of Sovereign, the Human Reaper plot, and the Alpha Relay Plot, by simply pushing the pedal to the metal and flying at normal FTL speeds to the Milky Way. If the Reapers could simply fly into the Milky Way within a few months span, it makes no sense why they didn't do just that when the Keepers failed to respond to their signal.

Which leaves ME1 still as the only coherent story in the franchise not riddled with giant plot holes that make either the heroes or the villians incredibly stupid. Though I have to wonder why they even bothered with the stupid and incredibly risky Human Reaper thing if they could have just used the Alpha Relay the whole time. Sovereign failed and died, so doing it again means there will be a different result or . . . what exactly is the plan again?

These are the kinds of problems you get when you take a trilogy and try to make each individual piece totally stand-alone, the narrative coherency breaks down and nobody knows what's going on. You spend more time putting bandages on plot failures and things you don't know how to resolve properly or in a timely manner.

Thus we get the Collector Base and The Crucible, instead of a systematic approach where you weaken the Reapers greatly in ME2 to set up a shot at a conventional win in ME3. Instead the whole franchise is tanked to make room for 3 coloured wishes.

Might be hard to tell but I stopped playing Mass Effect for the plot quite some time ago.

[Theodoro]

Han Shot First wrote...

IMO what they should have done with ME3 is have it revealed that the Batarians built a relay. We know of course that the Leviathon of Dis turned out to be a partially dead Reaper, which ended up indoctrinating Batarians in high positions in both the government and military. The Batarians build their own relay with great fanfare, boasting about their technological superiority over all other species. Meanwhile the whole thing was orchestrated by Reaper sleeper agents, with the technical know-how being delivered to the Batarians by the Reapers themselves. When the Batarians activate their new relay, they find it links to Dark Space and the entire Reaper fleet jumps through. Bam, Batarians get hammered...cue the start of Mass Effect 3.

It would have had the added bonus of the knowledge of relay construction still possibily being out there & available, after the relay network gets obliterated in the end game.

Wow, I hadn't really thought of that! That's a great idea - and it would have actually made sense and it would have also explored on the mystery of the Leviathan of Dis that was basically abandoned in ME3, along with a lot of other content. It also shows that the Reapers have a real back-up plan, as they have thought this thing over, calculated that since the Keepers failed to acknowledge Sovereign's signal their plan had the potential to fail. Headcanon mode activated one more time!

adneate wrote...
These are the kinds of problems you get when you take a trilogy and try to make each individual piece totally stand-alone, the narrative coherency breaks down and nobody knows what's going on. You spend more time putting bandages on plot failures and things you don't know how to resolve properly or in a timely manner.

Well, they did in fact plan ahead when they made ME2 with the Dark Energy plot in mind - as it would explain the Collectors' and Reapers' interest in humans, their genetic diversity as it has been the subject across the plot, and the many pieces of foreshadowing in the game, but they chose to drop it instead at the last minute.

Modifié par Theodoro, 01 juin 2012 - 08:01 .

[Tyranniac]

 Right, I'm getting sick of the complaints about... well, the majority of the story of the series you people claim to like. I'll be back when we get back on topic.

Modifié par Tyranniac, 01 juin 2012 - 08:01 .

[Han Shot First]

aletto wrote...

Concerning Arrival... I always wondered what would have happened if the Asteroid hit the Relay after the Reapers had gone through... I mean, ME3 (+ending) would be completely obsolete, right? RIGHT?

The blast would be travelling at light speed, which the Reapers could outrun because they can travel at FTL speeds.

IMO Bioware should have used a supernova as the method of destruction for the Reapers however. Introduce the concept of interdictor cruisers that can create powerful Mass Effect fields that increase the mass of enemy ships, preventing them reaching FTL. Have the Crucible be a Dark Energy weapon capable of triggering a supernova, and then set the final battle not above Earth but in the Widow System. (Widow being the Blue Giant the Citadel orbits)

It also shows that the Reapers have a real back-up plan, as they have thought this thing over, calculated that since the Keepers failed to acknowledge Sovereign's signal their plan had the potential to fail. Headcanon mode activated one more time!

I kind of like that the Reapers have more than one plan active at once also, in case one fails. It somehow makes them more frightening. The Batarians could be building the relay at the same time the events of Arrival are taking place.

At any rate I think the writers should have come up with *something* besides, "we hit the gas."

Modifié par Han Shot First, 01 juin 2012 - 08:07 .

[moreeman06]

So if there is a Thessia DLC would you rather it be one giant mission like LOTSB or a series of minor and major missions like the arcs on Sur'Kesh and Tuchanka?

Personally i prefer three or four seperate missions

PMC65 wrote...

Han Shot First - Wow! I think I would cry seeing her die ... Thane and Mordin were bad enough.

Moreeman - Poor Karmen! I don't think we will ever see poor man girl again.

TOP:

Just for my buddy Moreeman!



comfort-adam.livejournal.com

:oPMC I'm touched^_^<_<  What's the catch....

I guess I'll reciprocate your generosity
 

[aletto]

Han Shot First wrote...
The blast would be travelling at light speed, which the Reapers could outrun because they can travel at FTL speeds.

Well, if timed properly, the explosion could wipe out the reaper fleet, I mean, it's not like you can switch to FTL in the blink of an eye. But oh well, that would've been too convenient though

[TheDonk95]

Tyranniac wrote...

 Right, I'm getting sick of the complaints about... well, the majority of the story of the series you people claim to like. I'll be back when we get back on topic.

I agree with you. I want this thread to be about Liara

[Aristobulus500]

moreeman06 wrote...

So if there is a Thessia DLC would you rather it be one giant mission like LOTSB or a series of minor and major missions like the arcs on Sur'Kesh and Tuchanka?

Well, there's not too much of a difference - LotSB could easily have been split up into a series of missions like the arcs on Tuchanka/Rannoch - I mean, it's already divided into segments easy to do that. The office building, hotel Azure, and then Hagalaz.

Personally, I would like it to be a connected arc, with a hub to explore, and at the end you get a new location to revisit with Liara, like how LotSB gave you the Shadow Broker ship.

If we're going all wishlist, I'd like that location to be a house Shep and Liara get with plans to return after the war, and similar to the Normandy Tour scene, after the arc, Shpe and Liara can go there and get a scene where they discuss their life separate from the war, their feelings, and what they would like to do afterwards.

After that, when you return, Liara always goes with you and you can just get some general comments and such. Basically if you return after the post scene, just in between missions, like you could return to Hagalaz, it'd just be set up to look like Shep/Liara taking a break between missions.

Maybe as you keep returning you can find out more about Asari culture and such from things around the place, just like how returning to the Shadow Broker ship would reveal more videos and such in the back console.

[TheDonk95]

frudi wrote...

TheDonk95 wrote...

Tyranniac wrote...

 Right, I'm getting sick of the complaints about... well, the majority of the story of the series you people claim to like. I'll be back when we get back on topic.

I agree with you. I want this thread to be about Liara

Well, she still gets mentioned in the context of other discussions. It's kind of hard not to stray off-topic, pretty much everything about Liara had already been discussed at some point in the past, so off-topic discussions are just a way to keep the thread from regurgitating the same old topics all too often.

Still, to combat the lack of blue, here's one of my favourite pictures (even if it has been posted countless times already):

Well, I never saw this picture, so thanks!
Nothing that I haven't already said before, Liara is beautiful, and this picture is amazing. I think this one (her face) is from LotSB right?

[Tyranniac]

frudi wrote...

Well, she still gets mentioned in the context of other discussions. It's kind of hard not to stray off-topic, pretty much everything about Liara had already been discussed at some point in the past, so off-topic discussions are just a way to keep the thread from regurgitating the same old topics all too often.

I don't mind some off-topic, but I do mind all this complaining and negativity. It's tiresome.

Nice pic anyway.

[moreeman06]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

moreeman06 wrote...

So if there is a Thessia DLC would you rather it be one giant mission like LOTSB or a series of minor and major missions like the arcs on Sur'Kesh and Tuchanka?

Well, there's not too much of a difference - LotSB could easily have been split up into a series of missions like the arcs on Tuchanka/Rannoch - I mean, it's already divided into segments easy to do that. The office building, hotel Azure, and then Hagalaz.

Personally, I would like it to be a connected arc, with a hub to explore, and at the end you get a new location to revisit with Liara, like how LotSB gave you the Shadow Broker ship.

If we're going all wishlist, I'd like that location to be a house Shep and Liara get with plans to return after the war, and similar to the Normandy Tour scene, after the arc, Shpe and Liara can go there and get a scene where they discuss their life separate from the war, their feelings, and what they would like to do afterwards.

After that, when you return, Liara always goes with you and you can just get some general comments and such. Basically if you return after the post scene, just in between missions, like you could return to Hagalaz, it'd just be set up to look like Shep/Liara taking a break between missions.

Maybe as you keep returning you can find out more about Asari culture and such from things around the place, just like how returning to the Shadow Broker ship would reveal more videos and such in the back console.

I probably should have worded it better I meant which structure you prefered,  being able to back out of the arc at a point and go to the citadel to buy this or that or do another mission, or being forced to do it all in one go.  I do agree with you though on getting a new area to unlock,  personally I'd prefer a new planet, maybe a uncharted one that you're able to pull off the beacon before Kai Leng shows up or a hidden Asari Retreat (kinda like rivendell for some reason the Asari remind me of elves), since a house would probably get destroyed during the reaper invasion of Thessia.  But i like Liara coming with you and you talking about your future and such with her.  perhaps getting a house on that hidden planet (it its occupied) would work?  this is just my opinion though

[Theodoro]

Aristobulus500 wrote...
If we're going all wishlist, I'd like that location to be a house Shep and Liara get with plans to return after the war, and similar to the Normandy Tour scene, after the arc, Shpe and Liara can go there and get a scene where they discuss their life separate from the war, their feelings, and what they would like to do afterwards.

After that, when you return, Liara always goes with you and you can just get some general comments and such. Basically if you return after the post scene, just in between missions, like you could return to Hagalaz, it'd just be set up to look like Shep/Liara taking a break between missions.

Maybe as you keep returning you can find out more about Asari culture and such from things around the place, just like how returning to the Shadow Broker ship would reveal more videos and such in the back console.

Yes, I agree - this is closely tied to the lack of hub worlds besides the Citadel in ME3. After doing every multi-mission story arc concerned with a specific homeworld, a hub can open up where Shepard can return to any time, along with his/her squad members - especially the ones whose homeworld it is, like Garrus on Palaven and Liara on Thessia. Two birds with one stone, if you will.

[TheDonk95]

frudi wrote...

TheDonk95 wrote...

frudi wrote...

*snipping the rest but intentionally leaving the beautiful pic *

Well, I never saw this picture, so thanks!
Nothing that I haven't already said before, Liara is beautiful, and this picture is amazing. I think this one (her face) is from LotSB right?

Yes, this is her face and casual outfit from LotSB. While I like her ME3 model better, especially the detailed and more reflective skin texture, this is actually her look I like the most. I wish we would have gotten to see her in some kind of casual or elegant dress in ME3.

Yeah, I also really perfer the way she looked at ME 1 and 2, especially at 1. She looked alot more young and elegant in those games. Ofcourse she looks amazing and alot more sexy in Mass Effect 3, but still, the Liara I originally fell in love with a couple of years ago was the ME1 Liara

[Aristobulus500]

That casual dress she's wearing - honestly I think she looks the best in that scene than she does at any other point in the series. Her skin is very vibrant, her eyes are glowing, and it's, damn.

But I always give ME3 credit for making her skin higher res and scaled. It's just you never see her in a casual dress like that.

I think what would look the best, is ME3 Liara wearing a casual robe like that.

[TheDonk95]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

That casual dress she's wearing - honestly I think she looks the best in that scene than she does at any other point in the series. Her skin is very vibrant, her eyes are glowing, and it's, damn.

But I always give ME3 credit for making her skin higher res and scaled. It's just you never see her in a casual dress like that.

I think what would look the best, is ME3 Liara wearing a casual robe like that.

You took my words out of my mouth (it's a saying in hebrew means you basically said exactly what I think).

[Theodoro]

It's also a saying in English and other languages, as well.

Here's more LotSB Liara:

Modifié par Theodoro, 01 juin 2012 - 08:47 .

[Yuqi]

TheDonk95 wrote...

@Yuqi, just as Alex said, you should try and play some TF2. I promise you hours of fun. It's a great game and it turned F2P not so long ago. Add me if you want on steam (rimmler684) and we could play together.
I also suggest you to play other games like Skyrim, Battlefield 3 and Diablo 3. They are brilliant games that will take your mind off ME abit untill the EC is released.

Skyrim is too sandbox for me, Diablo 3 is crap IMO, and Battlefeild 3 is not my kind of game. The MAss Effect series is seriously the only shooting series I own.

I think I'll have to hold out until KH3D, or get the Playstation out and play some classics.

 RE: Romance DLC

One of the Devs tweeted in response to someone asking about possible romance dlcs, and they said if they did it  the V.S wouldent be in it. (Which makes me think Liara wouldn't be either). Anyway could you imagine the ****ing if she was? We already have LOTSB.