56469 réponses à ce sujet

[Brooks Mac]

I'm glad Ali Hillis is the voice actor of Liara, she seems very down to earth and cool! It's also nice, whether she really means it or not, That she seems to love the character she voices as much as we do! . Well maybe not as much as some of us! (;

[rubynorman]

I'd love to have LI DLC but I'm not sure it will happen. In ME2 there only Liara and the VS who need LI DLC. After ME3, there is a ton of character who need LI DLC. It won't sell well because of LI diverse fanbase . Unless they make DLC which is important to the plot and has some scenes for LI.

[rubynorman]

Sorry for double post.

Modifié par rubynorman, 02 juin 2012 - 05:02 .

[Han Shot First]

Brooks Mac wrote...

I'm glad Ali Hillis is the voice actor of Liara, she seems very down to earth and cool! It's also nice, whether she really means it or not, That she seems to love the character she voices as much as we do! . Well maybe not as much as some of us! (;

From what I gather from links to videos or her twitter page, she also seems to be very good with her fans. *And* has the patience of a saint, for actually responding to dorks telling her, "I romanced you. Herr Derr..." with humor.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 02 juin 2012 - 04:57 .

[Han Shot First]

frudi wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...




Anyone know who the artist is?

source and artist

Awesome, thanks!

[GenericEnemy]

Han Shot First wrote...

Brooks Mac wrote...

I'm glad Ali Hillis is the voice actor of Liara, she seems very down to earth and cool! It's also nice, whether she really means it or not, That she seems to love the character she voices as much as we do! . Well maybe not as much as some of us! (;

From what I gather from links to videos or her twitter page, she also seems to be very good with her fans. *And* has the patience of a saint, for actually responding to dorks telling her, "I romanced you. Herr Derr..." with humor.

Ali Hillis is awesome, and definitely patient. She had to be, seeing as when I spoke to her briefly at the Edmonton midnight release I requested she threaten to flay me alive...with her mind.

It was awesome.

[MidnightRaith]

Han Shot First wrote...

I think they gave the VS the extended hospital stay so that it would make sense when they showed up with Udina during the coup. If Ashley or Kaidan had been aboard the Normandy it would make less sense why they were aiding Udina, instead of Shepard. In order for the VS to rejoin the Normandy sooner I think they would have had to rewritten or scrapped the VS' role during the Cerberus coup.

*pic snip*

Anyone know who the artist is?

I honestly don't like the coup scene. Udina was a politician. He does what's best for him first, then his job, then humanity. However, with that in mind, I still liked him. Sure, he was a jerk, but he was a likeable jerk. One of those characters that you love to hate. However, I did not like linking him to Cerberus. I absolutely cannot stand that this series is so hell bent on liking every morally ambiguous pro-human character to either Cerberus or more rarely Terra Firma. For God's sake, Udina would have been great if he was just a jerk based on his talent for politics. Now, he's a treasonous bastard that serves an organization that was handed the idiot ball in this game. In my opinion, it cheapens his character. For as much crap he gets from the fans, he still wasn't truly a bad guy.

Yeah, he grounded the Normandy, but in the eyes of the Council, Shepard is acting like a raving lunatic. Shepard presented no evidence, no logic to the Reaper "theory." How many people can honestly say that they wouldn't have grounded Shepard? Now, come the third game, suddenly he's all for murdering the Council in cold blood and even tries to do it by his own hand before shot down. Really? I didn't get the vibe that he was capable of assassination at all. He does what's best for humanity, yes. However, I really didn't get the impression that he would go about it as drastically as was portrayed.

As for the VS? I thought we patched up a lot of our problems in the hospital scene. Now it's back to the old line of, "You worked for Cerberus, I don't trust you," bit. Yeah, 'kay VS, I'm just busting my ass to get everyone to work together as a collection of nations. It'd be kinda counter-productive to my goal if I killed the symbol of what I'm trying to achieve. As flawed and uninclusive as the Council is, at that time, it is still the best representation of species working together.

I feel that the coup has a ton of problems. Namely, none of the characters want to think for five seconds about what's going on. Some of them seem to just act completely out of character. The coup scene is one of those that I would like cut, in my dream ME3, and instead the time and effort on it be put elsewhere. Such as Thessia.

As for the pic, can't say I've ever seen it before.

[moreeman06]

MidnightRaith wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I think they gave the VS the extended hospital stay so that it would make sense when they showed up with Udina during the coup. If Ashley or Kaidan had been aboard the Normandy it would make less sense why they were aiding Udina, instead of Shepard. In order for the VS to rejoin the Normandy sooner I think they would have had to rewritten or scrapped the VS' role during the Cerberus coup.

*pic snip*

Anyone know who the artist is?

I honestly don't like the coup scene. Udina was a politician. He does what's best for him first, then his job, then humanity. However, with that in mind, I still liked him. Sure, he was a jerk, but he was a likeable jerk. One of those characters that you love to hate. However, I did not like linking him to Cerberus. I absolutely cannot stand that this series is so hell bent on liking every morally ambiguous pro-human character to either Cerberus or more rarely Terra Firma. For God's sake, Udina would have been great if he was just a jerk based on his talent for politics. Now, he's a treasonous bastard that serves an organization that was handed the idiot ball in this game. In my opinion, it cheapens his character. For as much crap he gets from the fans, he still wasn't truly a bad guy.

Yeah, he grounded the Normandy, but in the eyes of the Council, Shepard is acting like a raving lunatic. Shepard presented no evidence, no logic to the Reaper "theory." How many people can honestly say that they wouldn't have grounded Shepard? Now, come the third game, suddenly he's all for murdering the Council in cold blood and even tries to do it by his own hand before shot down. Really? I didn't get the vibe that he was capable of assassination at all. He does what's best for humanity, yes. However, I really didn't get the impression that he would go about it as drastically as was portrayed.

As for the VS? I thought we patched up a lot of our problems in the hospital scene. Now it's back to the old line of, "You worked for Cerberus, I don't trust you," bit. Yeah, 'kay VS, I'm just busting my ass to get everyone to work together as a collection of nations. It'd be kinda counter-productive to my goal if I killed the symbol of what I'm trying to achieve. As flawed and uninclusive as the Council is, at that time, it is still the best representation of species working together.

I feel that the coup has a ton of problems. Namely, none of the characters want to think for five seconds about what's going on. Some of them seem to just act completely out of character. The coup scene is one of those that I would like cut, in my dream ME3, and instead the time and effort on it be put elsewhere. Such as Thessia.

As for the pic, can't say I've ever seen it before.

I actually liked that they linked Udina to Cerberus,  he always seemed a little shifty to me and I loved to hate him so i thought it was a logical step to have him of all the human characters linked with Cerberus,  although I'd still like to know exactly how they linked the two,  was he a terra firma member who was contacted afterwards, did he initiate contact???

On the other hand it still didn't make sense that after everything the VS would turn a gun on you for little to no reason (pointing one at Udina isn't a reason everyone and their mother has wanted to kill that boshtet at some time or another).  But that's just my opinion on the matter.  

And that sucks about your ME1 I play it through Steam and I've never had that problem so i don't really know anything that could help you with it.

[Han Shot First]

I liked the coup for the most part, I just wish both Udina's actions and Ashley's lack of trust had been better explained. By that point in the game Ashley should have trusted that Shepard was not with Cerberus. After all weren't all the lingering issues about Shepard's involvement with Cerberus hashed out while she was in the hospital, and with both characters agreeing to trust each other? And Udina's motives for allying with Cerberus while they are in the middle of attacking other humans, makes little sense.

Indoctrination should have been used as an explanation for both Udina's betrayal, and Ashley having doubts about Shepard. Udina's role in the plot should have been explained as an indoctrinated sleeper agent in the human embassy staff having smuggled Reaper tech into Udina's office, indoctrinating him. While indoctrination was mentioned as a possible motive in the codex, it is never definitely stated that Udina was indoctrinated, and the codex also states that it is just as likely that Udina acted on his own and out of desperation. Indoc could also been used as a reason for Ashley or Kaidan to not trust Shepard initially. Udina should have accused Shepard of having become indoctrinated and aiding the Reapers.

One of the most dangerous aspects of the Reapers is that they turn your own against you, and you often don't know who you can trust. Javik hit that point home when he talks about having to kill his own squadmates during his cycle, after they had been captured, indoctrinated, and sent against him. Indoctrination should have played a role in the coup, beyong just Kai Leng and the random Cerberus goons.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 02 juin 2012 - 05:51 .

[MidnightRaith]

moreeman06 wrote...

I actually liked that they linked Udina to Cerberus,  he always seemed a little shifty to me and I loved to hate him so i thought it was a logical step to have him of all the human characters linked with Cerberus,  although I'd still like to know exactly how they linked the two,  was he a terra firma member who was contacted afterwards, did he initiate contact???

On the other hand it still didn't make sense that after everything the VS would turn a gun on you for little to no reason (pointing one at Udina isn't a reason everyone and their mother has wanted to kill that boshtet at some time or another).  But that's just my opinion on the matter.  

And that sucks about your ME1 I play it through Steam and I've never had that problem so i don't really know anything that could help you with it.

Honestly, I though that linking Udina to Cerberus gave the impression that anyone that was pro-human, except for Shepard, needed something or someone like Cerberus to try to get their beliefs across. Almost like being pro-human is a bad thing in this game, which sends a conflicting message since Shepard can and does stand for humanity during the course of the game. Udina could have been a nice minor antagonist on his own merits. Now it seems like he can't stand unless supported by Cerberus. Just, blech. I really, really don't like that scene.

Even Cerberus just annoys me. In ME2, they were great. Ironically, Cerberus was like the organization version of Shepard. People in Cerberus could either be anti-alien or pro-human which is extemely similar to Renegade Shep and Paragon Shep respectively. The Illusive Man is anti-alien. Miranda is pro-human. They both represent Cerberus very well in the course of the game. Come ME3, that stuff is gone. Now, Cerberus stands for doing the dumbest things in the game. They simply got too much attention and not much of it was productive. Cerberus feels more like the antagonist than the Reapers throughout much of it and that really defeats the purpose of having built the Reapers up for the past two games.

So, add my irritation of weakening Udina to my severe irritation with Cerberus and the coup scene is definitely not my favorite part of the game. <_<

EDIT: I also don't like Indoc as a reason for his betrayal or something that could have been used to turn Ash or Kaidan. It seems Bioware has forgotten/retconned what the purpose of Indoctrination was from the advent of the first game. First of all, I don't like using Indoctrination for every plot twist that can't stand on its own. Udina's involvement in the coup doesn't make sense. Let's fix it with Indoctrination.

Second, Indoctrination is supposed to be permanent. It's supposed to be something that people cannot fight off. No one has ever done so before. Even Benezia did it only temporarily and she made it extemely clear that it was very hard for her to do even that much. If the VS was indoctrinated at all, then it should have been permanent and we shouldn't have been given an option to save them. Indoc liquifies the person's brains. Now, all of a sudden, it can be used to explain away every behavior that is not based in logic and is suddenly able to be fought off with relatively little effort. <_< Slowly, but surely, I'm becoming less of a fan of Indoctrination even in canon.

Modifié par MidnightRaith, 02 juin 2012 - 06:04 .

[shepard1038]

rubynorman wrote...

I'd love to have LI DLC but I'm not sure it will happen. In ME2 there only Liara and the VS who need LI DLC. After ME3, there is a ton of character who need LI DLC. It won't sell well because of LI diverse fanbase . Unless they make DLC which is important to the plot and has some scenes for LI.

I doubt they will make DLC for the me2 characters since they get sidelined in me3 unless people start demanding it. To be frank i though the Vs and Liara romance in me3 was good as well as other characters.
The ones that probably get dlc are the most popular. They could make a mission that you're Li could participate
and example would be a mission on palaven that garrus could participate and if garrus is you're Li you could have
the oportunity to talk with garrus and improve the romance more and at the same time improve the plot.

[Icyflare]

If you talk to EDI after the coup, she postulates a theory that Udina was simply desperate for resources to send to Earth that the Council wouldn't give him. He turns to Ceberus with the promise of back-up for Earth. I can't remember her lines exactly as I only had it once, but it's definitely there.

But yeah. I never liked Udina, but he was starting to be fleshed out more in the beginning of ME3 with topics like his dying friends on Earth, his concerns, his exhaustion over the state of humanity. Then by the coup, his character takes a giant step backwards without an explanation. Perhaps, BW had planned more, but I always feel a little dissatisfied with that scene, since it felt so much of it could be avoided (e.g. VS pulling a gun on you, etc.)

Indoctrination would be better off used as a plot device used sparingly and with maximum impact when it does, rather than just every time a character acts... well... out of character. I think it might have been used one too many times over the course of the ME trilogy.

[MidnightRaith]

Icyflare wrote...

If you talk to EDI after the coup, she postulates a theory that Udina was simply desperate for resources to send to Earth that the Council wouldn't give him. He turns to Ceberus with the promise of back-up for Earth. I can't remember her lines exactly as I only had it once, but it's definitely there.

But yeah. I never liked Udina, but he was starting to be fleshed out more in the beginning of ME3 with topics like his dying friends on Earth, his concerns, his exhaustion over the state of humanity. Then by the coup, his character takes a giant step backwards without an explanation. Perhaps, BW had planned more, but I always feel a little dissatisfied with that scene, since it felt so much of it could be avoided (e.g. VS pulling a gun on you, etc.)

Indoctrination would be better off used as a plot device used sparingly and with maximum impact when it does, rather than just every time a character acts... well... out of character. I think it might have been used one too many times over the course of the ME trilogy.

The desperate theory is the only one I'm able to swallow at all. If Bioware really, truly wanted to have a coup, then Cerberus should have just acted on their own. They really didn't need to use Udina. He was a good character on his own merits. I really believe he would have been better if left alone. Now, his death was trivialized and used as a simple fanservice for those players that couldn't think about what his character truly represented during the series and childishly held a grudge for him since the first game, in my honest opinion.

I'm not saying that if you chose to shoot him, you're one of the above. However, if you dig up threads on the matter, the large majority of posters are saying things like, "Hell yeah! I was looking for any excuse to shoot the ****! Whoo!" They rarely give any thought to the character overall and realize that he wasn't nearly as bad as BSN likes to portray him.

Modifié par MidnightRaith, 02 juin 2012 - 06:36 .

[Han Shot First]

Second, Indoctrination is supposed to be permanent. It's supposed to be something that people cannot fight off. No one has ever done so before. Even Benezia did it only temporarily and she made it extemely clear that it was very hard for her to do even that much. If the VS was indoctrinated at all, then it should have been permanent and we shouldn't have been given an option to save them. Indoc liquifies the person's brains. Now, all of a sudden, it can be used to explain away every behavior that is not based in logic and is suddenly able to be fought off with relatively little effort.  Slowly, but surely, I'm becoming less of a fan of Indoctrination even in canon.

Maybe I didn't explain that bit well.

I didn't want the VS to be indoctrinated, rather than Udina would accuse Shepard of it and that would be the reason the VS has a moment of doubt. As the scene is in the game, the VS doubts Shepard because of previous affiliations with Cerberus, when that issue was supposedly resolved at the hospital.

[MidnightRaith]

Han Shot First wrote...

Second, Indoctrination is supposed to be permanent. It's supposed to be something that people cannot fight off. No one has ever done so before. Even Benezia did it only temporarily and she made it extemely clear that it was very hard for her to do even that much. If the VS was indoctrinated at all, then it should have been permanent and we shouldn't have been given an option to save them. Indoc liquifies the person's brains. Now, all of a sudden, it can be used to explain away every behavior that is not based in logic and is suddenly able to be fought off with relatively little effort.  Slowly, but surely, I'm becoming less of a fan of Indoctrination even in canon.

Maybe I didn't explain that bit well.

I didn't want the VS to be indoctrinated, rather than Udina would accuse Shepard of it and that would be the reason the VS has a moment of doubt. As the scene is in the game, the VS doubts Shepard because of previous affiliations with Cerberus, when that issue was supposedly resolved at the hospital.

Ah, I see what you're saying. But still, I really am getting tired of seeing/hearing indoctrination in every part of ME3's plot. Much of it stands without it, really. I'm not saying that your idea is objectively a bad one. I personally, am I bit sick of Indoc mainly due to a theory that I'm constantly hearing about....

[rubynorman]

Icyflare wrote...
But yeah. I never liked Udina, but he was starting to be fleshed out more in the beginning of ME3 with topics like his dying friends on Earth, his concerns, his exhaustion over the state of humanity. Then by the coup, his character takes a giant step backwards without an explanation. Perhaps, BW had planned more, but I always feel a little dissatisfied with that scene, since it felt so much of it could be avoided (e.g. VS pulling a gun on you, etc.)

I don't know what to make of Udina. In the comic Mass Effect: Inquisition, it shows that Udina had some evil plans before ME3.
I just finished reading the comic homeworlds 2. The drawing was bad but the story is good. I don't know why but they drew asari very badly but the turian, batarian look very cool.

[Aristobulus500]

I feel like Udina's betrayal is just the first of many horrendous writing mis-steps in the game that happens because the game was horribly rushed and slopped together.

It comes out of nowhere, doesn't have proper build up and is very anti-climatic, and just makes no sense for him. Afterwards it's hand waved away that "oh maybe he was desperate or indoctrinated" both of which make no sense.

I will buy that he was desperate, but Udina isn't stupid. He wouldn't turn to Cerberus because he's smart enough to know that they wouldn't actually hold up their end of the bargain and help him. They would just use him then dispose of him, and surprise, that's exactly what they were planning on doing - you here Cerberus troopers talking about getting rid of him.

As for indoctrination - how exactly does he get indoctrinated? He's not TIM, he's not hanging out with a bunch of reaper parts and surgically implanting those parts into himself. Indoctrination would explain it, except that there's no real reason for him to be indoctrinated in the first place.

[Icyflare]

I have to confess that I was one of those posters after I finished the coup the first time, but I don't find him to be a complete bastard like the Illusive Man or Kai Leng. GOD, do I hate Kai Leng. However, most those posters are looking at it rather shallowly, not questioning how a man known for backstabbing you politically can suddenly pull a gun on someone he's fleeing with. Those are two different levels of treachery.

It doesn't fit Udina's character to do something so violent, and we as players never see the mounting pressure that pushes him so far. The coup tosses away all sympathy garnered for him over the course of the games in a single scene, which would be impressive if I wasn't also sure it was unintentional too.

[Han Shot First]

Aristobulus500 wrote...


As for indoctrination - how exactly does he get indoctrinated? He's not TIM, he's not hanging out with a bunch of reaper parts and surgically implanting those parts into himself. Indoctrination would explain it, except that there's no real reason for him to be indoctrinated in the first place.

Nanobots: They were used to indoctrinate Grayson.

*If* Udina was indoctrinated, it could have been a possible method. An indoctrinated sleeper agent in the embassy staff gets close to Udina and plants them in his quarters. It doesn't even necessarily have to be someone high ranking. An indoctrinated maid for example could slip them into his bedroom. While Udina sleeps later that night, they crawl into his ear canal.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 02 juin 2012 - 07:07 .

[MidnightRaith]

Icyflare wrote...

I have to confess that I was one of those posters after I finished the coup the first time, but I don't find him to be a complete bastard like the Illusive Man or Kai Leng. GOD, do I hate Kai Leng. However, most those posters are looking at it rather shallowly, not questioning how a man known for backstabbing you politically can suddenly pull a gun on someone he's fleeing with. Those are two different levels of treachery.

It doesn't fit Udina's character to do something so violent, and we as players never see the mounting pressure that pushes him so far. The coup tosses away all sympathy garnered for him over the course of the games in a single scene, which would be impressive if I wasn't also sure it was unintentional too.

My impression of Udina changed very little after the coup. It was my impression of ME3's writers that was harmed....

You could actually make a case for Udina in grounding the Normandy. Having Shepard running around the galaxy chasing what could be robotic ghosts could be very counter-productive to humanity's overall image. It doesn't matter that Shepard was right, really. At the time we had no evidence to back up any of our assertations. If we're going to measure people on the Logic Scale, Anderson comes off worse than Udina for that particular event.

[Theodoro]

Unfortunately, I feel like Udina is one of the many victims of BioWare's streak of character assassination in ME3. And he's not the only one - The Illusive Man and the whole of Cerberus, as well, not to mention Joker and Shepard at the end of the game. No matter what explanation they pull out, it's still a cheap thing to do - especially what they did to Udina for the sake of having this stand-off between Shepard and the VS.

Modifié par Theodoro, 02 juin 2012 - 07:11 .

[MidnightRaith]

Han Shot First wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...


As for indoctrination - how exactly does he get indoctrinated? He's not TIM, he's not hanging out with a bunch of reaper parts and surgically implanting those parts into himself. Indoctrination would explain it, except that there's no real reason for him to be indoctrinated in the first place.

Nanobots: They were used to indoctrinate Grayson.

*If* Udina was indoctrinated, it could have been a possible method. An indoctrinated sleeper agent in the embassy staff gets close to Udina and plants them in his quarters. It doesn't even necessarily have to be someone high ranking. An indoctrinated maid for example could slip them into his bedroom. While Udina sleeps later that night, they crawl into his ear canal.

The bold is what makes Indoc so freaking hard for me to swallow. This is the problem EUs have most of the time. They make established canon needlessly complicated. I loved Indoc when only Sovereign/Reapers could do it in ME1 and all it took was a weird little signal. Now, Indoc is an umbrella term for a wide variety of things in both canon and fan's perception of it.

Even the methods used to indoctrinate people gradually gets more and more pointlessly complicated. Now, it's "Reaper Tech" that can do it. But, what constitutes as "Reaper Tech" in this situation? The Relays? Those are Reaper Tech, but no one is indoctrinated by them. The Citadel? Why not have a button that indocs everyone on it since Indoctrination is such a huge thing with the Reapers? And why not? The Citadel is perhaps the greatest example of Reaper Tech, yet it can't indoctrinate people really. Bioware likes to pick and chose what can Indoc and what can't and they just keep adding things to it that don't need to be there.

ME3 and the EU are where the writing start to take a definite downturn, IMO. This all sounds really cool, but it doesn't fit what Mass Effect started out to be at all and that really gets on my nerves. 

[Han Shot First]

@Midnight,

I agree that the lore is a little vague on exactly what sort of Reaper tech indoctrinates. We know that the Reapers themselves do of course, and apparently they also have nanobots that can indoctrinate. As could Artifact Rho.

Not having the Citadel itself capable of indoctrinating people seems odd. You'd think that would have fit into the Reapers' plans at some point.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 02 juin 2012 - 07:26 .

[Theodoro]

Sorry for the off-topic question, but do we know for certain that Thessia doesn't have any moons? I've been reading the Codex and the Mass Effect Wiki and there's no mention of any moons, but I could have easily missed something.

Modifié par Theodoro, 02 juin 2012 - 07:35 .