56469 réponses à ce sujet

[TheDonk95]

I'd love to! But I won't be able to see it no because I'm off to work, but I'll be sure to see it when I get back.
Oh and yeah I know my english is terrible... It's not my native language..

[shepard1038]

TheDonk95 wrote...

I'd love to! But I won't be able to see it no because I'm off to work, but I'll be sure to see it when I get back.
Oh and yeah I know my english is terrible... It's not my native language..

Its not that bad i seen worse.

@moreeman06

What is it about?

Modifié par shepard1038, 05 juin 2012 - 06:19 .

[Aristobulus500]

Han Shot First wrote...

On Shepard, Liara, and PTSD...

A common argument put forth on the BSN against Shepard having those nightmares, is that he's such a 'big godamned hero' that nothing should phase him. Unfortunately that viewpoint is a little out of touch with reality.

Well, it's a damn good thing ME isn't reality, now then, isn't it?

That is the thing everyone who thinks Shepard and Liara needs to be institutionalized is missing. ME is a soft sci fi space opera escapist fantasy. It's allowed to have heroic characters that don't suffer from PTSD even if they would in reality, because it's not reality.

Funny how that works.

[moreeman06]

TheDonk95 wrote...

I'd love to! But I won't be able to see it no because I'm off to work, but I'll be sure to see it when I get back.
Oh and yeah I know my english is terrible... It's not my native language..

don't worry english isn't alot of people's native language here, It's mine and a few other's but you type it fine as someone said before most of us would probably fail at trying to type in your native toungue or anyone elses.

and I'll PM it to you

edit:  Shepard,  well i might as well throw in a few bb's just to make you guys squirm:P.  No in reality I'm just writing one about their first battle way back in ME1, something i touched on in the children's story my Shep Tiberius tells his first daughter Lilly in my fic "Daddy's Little Girls"  and a bit of the aftermath.  I'm using it as a way to flesh out a bit of headcanon for something that should come into play with my ongoing fic Blue Dawn when i decide to get the next chapter up

Modifié par moreeman06, 05 juin 2012 - 06:23 .

[shepard1038]

moreeman06 wrote...

TheDonk95 wrote...

I'd love to! But I won't be able to see it no because I'm off to work, but I'll be sure to see it when I get back.
Oh and yeah I know my english is terrible... It's not my native language..

don't worry english isn't alot of people's native language here, It's mine and a few other's but you type it fine as someone said before most of us would probably fail at trying to type in your native toungue or anyone elses.

and I'll PM it to you

Whats the fan fic about?

[Han Shot First]

Not every one wants to get married and have kids ... EW Shepard and I share that in common.

During LotSB instead of the 'blue babies' line, I prefer the dialogue option where Shepard will say something like, "You've seen the data, Liara. Even if we somehow pull this off, I don't think either of us gets to see the victory parade." I like having Shepard be honest in that convo rather than trying to diffuse the tension with some humor. In that it seems, I'm part of a small minority.

Whether or not Shepard and Liara actually have babies however at some point, is a bit of a non issue for me. I don't have strong feelings about it either way. I'm not a big fan of blue baby fan art though.

Not sure where exactly that puts me on the divide between those who want Shepard to have blue babies, and those who don't.

Well, it's a damn good thing ME isn't reality, now then, isn't it?
That is the thing everyone who thinks Shepard and Liara needs to be institutionalized is missing. ME is a soft sci fi space opera escapist fantasy. It's allowed to have heroic characters that don't suffer from PTSD even if they would in reality, because it's not reality.
Funny how that works.

That depends.

Even though some elements of Mass Effect might be wrapped in escapist fantasy, there still needs to be some level of plausibility in both the official story and fanfics, in order for the audience to suspend disbelief. If an author chooses not to address PTSD one way or the other simply because it falls outside the scope of the story, that is one thing. If the story suggests that Shepard was someone immune to it, that is quite another. The latter starts to fall into the territory of things that prevent suspension of disbelief.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 05 juin 2012 - 06:26 .

[moreeman06]

shepard1038 wrote...

moreeman06 wrote...

TheDonk95 wrote...

I'd love to! But I won't be able to see it no because I'm off to work, but I'll be sure to see it when I get back.
Oh and yeah I know my english is terrible... It's not my native language..

don't worry english isn't alot of people's native language here, It's mine and a few other's but you type it fine as someone said before most of us would probably fail at trying to type in your native toungue or anyone elses.

and I'll PM it to you

Whats the fan fic about?

I put a short description in the post above yours

[Aristobulus500]

Han Shot First wrote...

If the story suggests that Shepard was someone immune to it, that is quite another. The latter starts to fall into the territory of things that prevent suspension of disbelief.

Really now? Says who?

Cause damn, I guess things like Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Star Trek, and then pretty much every summer action movie or comic book - these are all actually terrible and they fail for preventing suspension of disbelief.

Because, after all, Indiana Jones has seen too much, man. A man wouldn't be able to function after all that he's seen. He should be dosed up on medications, not having adventures, it'd wreck a normal person.

And Han Solo? Luke Skywalker? Seen way too much death. Leia had to witness the destruction of an entire planet. You don't come back, mentally, from anything they've seen.

This goes on. These are all actually horribly written because they don't address this, and in allowing these characters to live normally in the endings, they break suspension of disbelief.

Edit - What I'm saying is the reason these characters don't have to commit themselves to hospitals after the end of the story is because they are heroes in escapist fantasies, not grimdark stories. They are allowed to be larger than life, immune to things that'd wreck a normal person. Shepard is from the same stock.

Their stories are not actually worse or failures because the main characters don't become wracked with PTSD, that's ridiculous.

Modifié par Aristobulus500, 05 juin 2012 - 06:36 .

[Tyranniac]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

If the story suggests that Shepard was someone immune to it, that is quite another. The latter starts to fall into the territory of things that prevent suspension of disbelief.

Really now? Says who?

Cause damn, I guess things like Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Star Trek, and then pretty much every summer action movie or comic book - these are all actually terrible and they fail for preventing suspension of disbelief.

Because, after all, Indiana Jones has seen too much, man. A man wouldn't be able to function after all that he's seen. He should be dosed up on medications, not having adventures, it'd wreck a normal person.

And Han Solo? Luke Skywalker? Seen way too much death. Leia had to witness the destruction of an entire planet. You don't come back, mentally, from anything they've seen.

This goes on. These are all actually horribly written because they don't address this, and in allowing these characters to live normally in the endings, they break suspension of disbelief.

Edit - What I'm saying is the reason these characters don't have to commit themselves to hospitals after the end of the story is because they are heroes in escapist fantasies, not grimdark stories. They are allowed to be larger than life, immune to things that'd wreck a normal person. Shepard is from the same stock.

Their stories are not actually worse or failures because the main characters don't become wracked with PTSD, that's ridiculous.

Hey now, calm down a bit. There is a middle ground between being wrecked and immune you know.

Modifié par Tyranniac, 05 juin 2012 - 06:38 .

[shepard1038]

moreeman06 wrote...

shepard1038 wrote...

moreeman06 wrote...

TheDonk95 wrote...

I'd love to! But I won't be able to see it no because I'm off to work, but I'll be sure to see it when I get back.
Oh and yeah I know my english is terrible... It's not my native language..

don't worry english isn't alot of people's native language here, It's mine and a few other's but you type it fine as someone said before most of us would probably fail at trying to type in your native toungue or anyone elses.

and I'll PM it to you

Whats the fan fic about?

I put a short description in the post above yours

I see it now thanks.

[shepard1038]

Tyranniac wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

If the story suggests that Shepard was someone immune to it, that is quite another. The latter starts to fall into the territory of things that prevent suspension of disbelief.

Really now? Says who?

Cause damn, I guess things like Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Star Trek, and then pretty much every summer action movie or comic book - these are all actually terrible and they fail for preventing suspension of disbelief.

Because, after all, Indiana Jones has seen too much, man. A man wouldn't be able to function after all that he's seen. He should be dosed up on medications, not having adventures, it'd wreck a normal person.

And Han Solo? Luke Skywalker? Seen way too much death. Leia had to witness the destruction of an entire planet. You don't come back, mentally, from anything they've seen.

This goes on. These are all actually horribly written because they don't address this, and in allowing these characters to live normally in the endings, they break suspension of disbelief.

Edit - What I'm saying is the reason these characters don't have to commit themselves to hospitals after the end of the story is because they are heroes in escapist fantasies, not grimdark stories. They are allowed to be larger than life, immune to things that'd wreck a normal person. Shepard is from the same stock.

Their stories are not actually worse or failures because the main characters don't become wracked with PTSD, that's ridiculous.

Hey now, calm down a bit. There is a middle ground between being wrecked and immune you know.

I agree with Tyranniac. Why don't you calm down aren't we all friends here?

[moreeman06]

shepard1038 wrote...

moreeman06 wrote...

shepard1038 wrote...

moreeman06 wrote...

TheDonk95 wrote...

I'd love to! But I won't be able to see it no because I'm off to work, but I'll be sure to see it when I get back.
Oh and yeah I know my english is terrible... It's not my native language..

don't worry english isn't alot of people's native language here, It's mine and a few other's but you type it fine as someone said before most of us would probably fail at trying to type in your native toungue or anyone elses.

and I'll PM it to you

Whats the fan fic about?

I put a short description in the post above yours

I see it now thanks.

if your interested I'll send you a PM also, just be warned it's a first draft so the grammar will probably be way off and its not finished yet either.

[Han Shot First]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

If the story suggests that Shepard was someone immune to it, that is quite another. The latter starts to fall into the territory of things that prevent suspension of disbelief.

Really now? Says who?

Cause damn, I guess things like Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Star Trek, and then pretty much every summer action movie or comic book - these are all actually terrible and they fail for preventing suspension of disbelief.

Because, after all, Indiana Jones has seen too much, man. A man wouldn't be able to function after all that he's seen. He should be dosed up on medications, not having adventures, it'd wreck a normal person.

And Han Solo? Luke Skywalker? Seen way too much death. Leia had to witness the destruction of an entire planet. You don't come back, mentally, from anything they've seen.

This goes on. These are all actually horribly written because they don't address this, and in allowing these characters to live normally in the endings, they break suspension of disbelief.

Edit - What I'm saying is the reason these characters don't have to commit themselves to hospitals after the end of the story is because they are heroes in escapist fantasies, not grimdark stories. They are allowed to be larger than life, immune to things that'd wreck a normal person. Shepard is from the same stock.

Their stories are not actually worse or failures because the main characters don't become wracked with PTSD, that's ridiculous.

Name one instance in either of those films where it was stated that any of those characters did not have those experiences.

It just simply isn't addressed one way or the other because it fell outside of the scope of the films.

So long as it isn't addressed one way or the other in a fanfic: cool. If the author writes that Shepard was unaffected by his combat experiences, then he or she is beginning to strech the limits of what you can suspend belief on.
 
Shepard is also a very different sort of character than Indiana Jones or Han Solo. He is a bit more reality based. Characters from Star Trek would be a fair comparison, however. Like Mass Effect Star Trek sort of walks a fine line between escapist fantasy and hard Sci Fi.

EDIT: Actually I should amend that, because the Young Indiana Jones televesion series did have Indy volunteer for the Belgian Army in WW1, and it does touch somewhat on PTSD, though it is experienced by supporting characters.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 05 juin 2012 - 06:46 .

[shepard1038]

moreeman06 wrote...

shepard1038 wrote...

moreeman06 wrote...

shepard1038 wrote...

moreeman06 wrote...

TheDonk95 wrote...

I'd love to! But I won't be able to see it no because I'm off to work, but I'll be sure to see it when I get back.
Oh and yeah I know my english is terrible... It's not my native language..

don't worry english isn't alot of people's native language here, It's mine and a few other's but you type it fine as someone said before most of us would probably fail at trying to type in your native toungue or anyone elses.

and I'll PM it to you

Whats the fan fic about?

I put a short description in the post above yours

I see it now thanks.

if your interested I'll send you a PM also, just be warned it's a first draft so the grammar will probably be way off and its not finished yet either.

Nah I prefer to see it complete and finished.

edit: also were approaching the 1600 page.

Modifié par shepard1038, 05 juin 2012 - 06:48 .

[Aristobulus500]

Han Shot First wrote...
Name one instance in either of those films where it was stated that any of those characters did not have those experiences.

It just simply isn't addressed one way or the other because it fell outside of the scope of the films.

So long as it isn't addressed one way or the other in a fanfic: cool. If the author writes that Shepard was unaffected by his combat experiences, then he or she is beginning to strech the limits of what you can suspend belief on.
 
Shepard is also a very different sort of character than Indiana Jones or Han Solo. He is a bit more reality based. Characters from Star Trek would be a fair comparison, however. Like Mass Effect Star Trek sort of walks a fine line between escapist fantasy and hard Sci Fi.

I honestly just do not see much of a difference between Shepard, and Indiana Jones, Captain Kirk, Han Solo, etc.

They are all heroic characters that perform feats and keep their wits about them in a way no normal person could. They survive injuries and setbacks that would kill a normal person.

If we allow characters like Indiana Jones/Kirk/Han Solo to do these things, why can't we allow it of Shepard? And how exactly is Shepard presented as more realistic than say, Indiana Jones? How is he not that same kind of larger than life hero?

I just do not see how you can tell me it's okay for Indiana/Kirk/Han Solo to not have to suffer from PTSD and other ailments that would affect a real person, but Shepard has to suffer from it.

As far as I'm concerned, to be consistent, either it's okay for all of them to not suffer from it, including Shepard, or they all should suffer from it.

[Aristobulus500]

Logan Cloud wrote...

Hey there Liara thread! What's new?

Theo wrote a new fanfic that's really good, that you might've missed. Check it out.

http://www.fanfictio...Walk_on_Thessia

It's set after the end of ME3, in an AU where the starchild doesn't exist and the Reapers are just defeated.

[moreeman06]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...
Name one instance in either of those films where it was stated that any of those characters did not have those experiences.

It just simply isn't addressed one way or the other because it fell outside of the scope of the films.

So long as it isn't addressed one way or the other in a fanfic: cool. If the author writes that Shepard was unaffected by his combat experiences, then he or she is beginning to strech the limits of what you can suspend belief on.
 
Shepard is also a very different sort of character than Indiana Jones or Han Solo. He is a bit more reality based. Characters from Star Trek would be a fair comparison, however. Like Mass Effect Star Trek sort of walks a fine line between escapist fantasy and hard Sci Fi.

I honestly just do not see much of a difference between Shepard, and Indiana Jones, Captain Kirk, Han Solo, etc.

They are all heroic characters that perform feats and keep their wits about them in a way no normal person could. They survive injuries and setbacks that would kill a normal person.

If we allow characters like Indiana Jones/Kirk/Han Solo to do these things, why can't we allow it of Shepard? And how exactly is Shepard presented as more realistic than say, Indiana Jones? How is he not that same kind of larger than life hero?

I just do not see how you can tell me it's okay for Indiana/Kirk/Han Solo to not have to suffer from PTSD and other ailments that would affect a real person, but Shepard has to suffer from it.

As far as I'm concerned, to be consistent, either it's okay for all of them to not suffer from it, including Shepard, or they all should suffer from it.

I think it's ok for Shepard to experience some form of it although it will probably be a mild case that won't force him to abandon the ability or want for a normal life.  and although I've never seen Han Solo suffer from it in the movies in the Star Wars EU he does suffer a mental break for the first quarter or so of the NJO series when Chewbacca is killed by the Yuzzhan Vong and his son Anakin Solo semi-abandons Chewbacca in order to save the Falcon, Han, himself and around a hundred refugees that are packed into the holds.   and then afterwards the authors of the series keep on dropping hints about how much Chewie's death still haunts Han whether it be verbally abusing his family due to his misplaced guilt and anger,  disappearing for days on end into seedy haunts and provoking fights,  running around by himself on dangerous almost suicidal adventures, or even later after everything is patched up and he is almost back to the old han the talk about how he can still here Chewie's barks when he flies, how he will look at the oversized copilot seat and see Chewie there for a moment before realizing that its his wife there now her feet barely able to touch the floor due to the size of the seat.  not all of the hints they drop are explicit like the verbal abuse thing is mentioned a few times but there's never one section where we hear Han say it.  but I'd say that he suffers from PTSD or something similar during the course of the NJO series.  I can't say much about Indy or Kirk though I haven't gotten much into Trek's EU or past anything other than the Indy films

Modifié par moreeman06, 05 juin 2012 - 07:05 .

[Aristobulus500]

Yeah, that does happen to Han Solo. In the EU. Which people hate and typically hold up as a standard of what not to do with characters, and the events you've outlined are pretty much why people hate the Star Wars EU.

So bringing up that the Star Wars EU did things like that to the Star Wars characters, as far as I'm concerned, just vindicates me in thinking that doing the same to Shepard would also be absurd and unnecessary.

[Han Shot First]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

I just do not see how you can tell me it's okay for Indiana/Kirk/Han Solo to not have to suffer from PTSD and other ailments that would affect a real person, but Shepard has to suffer from it.

As far as I'm concerned, to be consistent, either it's okay for all of them to not suffer from it, including Shepard, or they all should suffer from it.

I never said any such thing. In fact I was fairly clear in stating that I don't think it necessarily needs to be addressed in fanfic at all.

I would however take issue with an author who did touch on PTSD but portrayed Shepard as someone who was completely immune to it. Besides conflicting with established canon (Mass Effect 3), it would also start to stretch credulity.

Star Trek by the way, did explore PTSD.

[Ajosraa]

Conserning PTSD and such. I would think that sometimes Shepard might get a little jumpy at times. For example, my grandpa was in WW2 and even decades later there was a time when he was at some 4th of july event where he all a sudden grabbed grandma, and hit the deck after he heard the fireworks go off. So it was a reflex-like thing.

I would figure Shepard might do some things like that, but not completely flip out exactly. Liara might be similar. Shepard and Liara are usually fairly stable personalities, so they might react similarly on some points after the war.

I would also expect bad dreams for a while, and possibly intermitantly for a long time after that.

Modifié par Ajosraa, 05 juin 2012 - 07:17 .

[d32f123]

Be adivsed,This is the last page before 1600!

[moreeman06]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Yeah, that does happen to Han Solo. In the EU. Which people hate and typically hold up as a standard of what not to do with characters, and the events you've outlined are pretty much why people hate the Star Wars EU.

So bringing up that the Star Wars EU did things like that to the Star Wars characters, as far as I'm concerned, just vindicates me in thinking that doing the same to Shepard would also be absurd and unnecessary.

personally I like NJO and alot of the EU, it gets a bad rap due to alot of the stories they put out being very kid friendly like Phantom was or written by people like Dietz with no real control from Lucasarts on quality and coming out looking like bad fan fic,  but they've been excersising more control over the EU and making sure it fits a coherent timeline with the movies for the past 14 or so years and there are some great gems in there (any of the Zahn, Karpyshyan, and Stackpole written novels come to mind as well as two Han Solo trilogies that provide his character with more of a backstory, plus NJO came out pretty good as well.)  plus they are considered to be as canon as any of the movies are, so you can think it vindicates you but personally i like that they did that with Han's character, plus i cried when the big wook died they gave him one of those sendoffs that i would have been happy seeing Shep get.

edit:  and i get a top on 1600 no less talking about star wars *grumbles something about stupid offtopic posts*  Oh well celebration time!!

 
    
 

 
By:  Shadowring123,  Proud Pastry, ThePinkFoxx, HumanGrotesque, Hoodie-Gypsie respectively

Modifié par moreeman06, 05 juin 2012 - 07:21 .

[Ajosraa]

Moreeman steals the top;P



by TheLivingShadow

Edit: And to think I was just about to post that same picture as the first one Moreeman. Good thing I picked this one.


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so many new ones

Modifié par Ajosraa, 05 juin 2012 - 07:34 .