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[TheDonk95]

Akernis wrote...

One of my favorite .gif's of all time.

[Akernis]

TheDonk95 wrote...

Akernis wrote...

One of my favorite .gif's of all time.

Same here.
I just played through that scene as I needed a piece if info for my fanfic and I was overwhelmed by how beautiful she is in LotSB,  though her resolution is updated for ME3 her eyes are simply incredibly  amazing in LotSB, and I think it is the first time I realised that her skin texture is present (if somewhat less obvious) already at that point.
That was the first time I played that scene since ME3 andafter the ending-gloom it was deligthfully refreshing and phenomenal .

[TheDonk95]

@Akernis, she is amazing in LotSB and in ME3, but I think she looks at the peak of beauty (in my opinion) in ME1. I've already detailed the reasons why I think she is the best at ME1 before...

[Jebel Krong]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

On Shepard, Liara, and PTSD...

A common argument put forth on the BSN against Shepard having those nightmares, is that he's such a 'big godamned hero' that nothing should phase him. Unfortunately that viewpoint is a little out of touch with reality.

Well, it's a damn good thing ME isn't reality, now then, isn't it?

That is the thing everyone who thinks Shepard and Liara needs to be institutionalized is missing. ME is a soft sci fi space opera escapist fantasy. It's allowed to have heroic characters that don't suffer from PTSD even if they would in reality, because it's not reality.

Funny how that works.

seriously? a lot of the time, mass effect has been the only harder-edged science fiction universe presented, and the concept was present in me3 with the asari in huerta memorial (i only gave her her gun back in my last playthrough - oops).

besides there's a lot of rich storytelling and character development that can be woven in there. mass effect is one of the few universes you can explore everything because the depth is there - from wonder to horror, and everything in-between.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 05 juin 2012 - 01:18 .

[adneate]

Jebel Krong wrote...
Mass effect has been the only harder-edged science fiction universe presented, and the concept was present in me3 with the asari in huerta memorial (i only gave her her gun back in my last playthrough - oops).

Mass Effect 1 was harder-edged the rest aren't at all, Mass Effect 2 threw any kind of science out the window with the utterly asinine "Humans are genetically special!" garbage. Mass Effect 3 takes it to a new low with the one ending, which must not be spoken of, that breaks the entire setting turning it from sci-fi to straight up fantasy.

If you want to seriously delve into combat stress and PTSD go find a book written by somebody who does actual research, since BioWare didn't. The dreams aren't deep they are simple emotional manipulation of the audience with all the subtly of a hammer to the skull.

It's just another case of Mac Walters going for some sort of tone even if it doesn't fit or doesn't make sense.

[Aristobulus500]

As a note, "Hard" and "Soft" are not indicators of quality. So don't get all defensive and feel you need to scramble to do anything to classify ME as hard sci fi. It's entirely possible to have garbage hard sci fi, and amazing soft sci fi. ME is firmly in the latter category.

Hard/Soft scifi simply refers to how realistic the story is, especially in relation to its science/tech, and there you will find ME really fails...and that's okay. One thing I've learned in finding out more about what hard/soft scifi is, is that the harder sci fi you turn ME into, the more of the amazing and wondrous things about the setting you have to remove.

It gets more and more lifeless and just, awe inspiring, with every additional layer of hard sci fi tacked on.

And agreeing with Adneate. The dreams are NOT well done implications of PTSD. It's writings of a hack trying to pretend he knows what it is and ham-handedly forcing it in, in an awful, out of character way. It's the same kind of manipulation that the child is, because OH BUT IT'S A HUMAN CHILD DON'T YOU JUST FEEL SAD LOOK HOW SAD SHEPARD IS

[Jebel Krong]

I didn't get any implication from the story that the dreams were any manifestation of ptsd...? They were, i believe, supposed to link the kid on earth with the ending. That it was unsubtle was just clumsy storytelling.

As for hard- or soft-science fiction, the series has got progressively less so, though me2 did ok till the end. Looking at the concept art books perhaps biases me more to bioware's intentions rather than just what is literally presented. Still it is more hard sci-fi than halo or, especially, star wars (which has no science in its fiction).

as for quality, that is down to writer: drew loves his cliches and writes awful, annoying characters; whilst mac is just clumsy, unoriginal and unsubtle. thankfully some of the other, especially character, writers are very good and balance things out. none of this dictates the type of sci-fi it is though.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 05 juin 2012 - 04:06 .

[Akernis]

I am still of the mind that though Shepard & Liara are of course affected by everything they are emotionally and psychologically safe and sound after the war. Though of course everyone has their own opinion.

@Donk: For me her beauty is epitomised in LotSB and to a slightly lesser extend, though still absolutely phenomenal in ME3.

Aristobulus500 wrote...
It's the same kind of manipulation that the child is, because OH BUT IT'S A HUMAN CHILD DON'T YOU JUST FEEL SAD LOOK HOW SAD SHEPARD IS

At this point I am about as sad for the child as I am for gunning down Thorian creepers or husks.
I don't have a problem with the nightmares, in fact I actually liked the whole thing with the voices, it is simply that damn kid, especially after the ending, that made it such an annoying part of the game. 

Modifié par Akernis, 05 juin 2012 - 04:23 .

[adneate]

The dreams annoyed the hell out of me the second time I was subjected to them, we are in the context of the narrative now in a fantasy world. One where all the rules that once governed the setting no longer apply and what does Mac do with that freedom? He has us run around in a completely flat forest setting. Could have done anything, merged gameplay mechanics and story and made something both compelling storywise and compelling to play. Instead we just run through the woods after a kid we have no reason to care about as we stuggle to figure out what if anything this all means.

If you have to ask what it means it doesn't mean anything.

[CrazyGreggy]

Chapter 4 (epilogue) of my fic is up, hope folks like it. Link's in my sig.

As for the dreams, yes, they're annoying the hell out of me right now. If they'd made them cutscenes I could spacebar through, then I could ignore them, but no, you have to run after Starsprog in slow motion as if you give a crap.

Hatehatehate

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

adneate wrote...

The dreams annoyed the hell out of me the second time I was subjected to them, we are in the context of the narrative now in a fantasy world. One where all the rules that once governed the setting no longer apply and what does Mac do with that freedom? He has us run around in a completely flat forest setting. Could have done anything, merged gameplay mechanics and story and made something both compelling storywise and compelling to play. Instead we just run through the woods after a kid we have no reason to care about as we stuggle to figure out what if anything this all means.

If you have to ask what it means it doesn't mean anything.

I am not sure if I would have liked if the dreams were prophetic in nature, that is something more reserved for the fantasy genre IMO. Simply having the dreams be a small moment of reflection for the player and Shepard is better.

Unless you simply meant that we should have done something more interesting than simply following the kid around in a forest. In which case I agree, along with the game's obnoxious focus on the child.

[TheDonk95]

The dream sequences are one of the things I hated the most in ME3. First of all, the first time I played the game, they conlfused the sh*t out of me and I didn't know what was going on.
Secondly, they are pretty pointless and stupid if you think of it. In his millitary life, seeing hundreds of friends and innocent people die, especially on Akuze, I'm sure Shepard has probably seen many young people and childs die. So
why does he gets flashbacks of this kid specificly? It just doesn't make any sense to me.
And finally, I hate this kid, so, yeah... stupid scenes.

Modifié par TheDonk95, 05 juin 2012 - 05:03 .

[Han Shot First]

Aristobulus500 wrote...



The background of Illium here is amazing. Where did this come from - I've never seen that background entirely before.

I believe the background in that image is Bioware's concept art for Illium from Mass Effect 2.

I didn't get any implication from the story that the dreams were any manifestation of ptsd...? They were, i believe, supposed to link the kid on earth with the ending. That it was unsubtle was just clumsy storytelling.

I think Bioware went for a little column A and a little column B with the dream sequences. In the dream sequences the kid was a representation of everyone Shepard had failed to save, and as such was supposed to be manifestation of survivor's guilt. Even the other aspects of the dreams beyond the kid were heavy with survivor's guilt, with Shepard being surrounded by 'ghosts' and and hearing the whispers of fallen squadmates. Of course with the ending Bioware then tried to link Star Child to Shepard's psychological state by having the space brat take the form of the kid.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 05 juin 2012 - 05:14 .

[lillitheris]

Han Shot First wrote...

I believe the background in that image is Bioware's concept art for Illium from Mass Effect 2.

It’s the lithograph, see somewhere in the last pages for links.

[Theodoro]

The dreams would have had a much bigger impact if they actually showed people from Shepard's past. The part with the voices that he/she hears during the dreams is a nice touch, but instead of running around a forest chasing a random child that is one of the many nameless unfortunate casualties from the war, Shepard should have actually seen the one who he/she sacrificed on Virmire, for instance, and anyone who she lost during the Suicide Mission - the impact being even greater if the player has allowed the deaths of his/her squad members. Shepard's past would also come into play - if he/she is the "butcher of Torfan", for example, he/she would see people from the squad that he/she sent to their deaths coming back to haunt him/her. I'd also change the location to places that Shepard has actually seen and would have an impact on him/her - crucial locations. This would work much better if we're looking for a guilt imposing method.

If we want to go any further, we can have the dreams show potential deaths of Shepard's LI and crew, the destruction of Earth, but that's going too far into nightmare territory.

CrazyGreggy wrote...

Chapter 4 (epilogue) of my fic is up, hope folks like it. Link's in my sig.

Loved it, great work! I didn't expect you to cover Arrival, as well, but it was very well-handled. The entire story was great.

TheDonk95 wrote...

Arcataye wrote...

In short: I liked it very much, it became my headcanon for Thessia. Biotic trees and all, so many nice ideas.

It also became by headcanon for Thessia. Theo did a wonderful job describing Thessia, the park, the cars, the buildings... Beautiful!
Theo, if your'e reading this, I have to tell you that was an amazing story, really, and you should write more!!

Thanks so much for the kind words! I'm happy that you liked my ideas about Thessia. And yes - I'll be writing more, and more will come , and soon!

Modifié par Theodoro, 05 juin 2012 - 06:03 .

[Ajosraa]

Theodoro wrote...

Happy 1600th, everyone! Looks like I made it, after all!




By: Jhourney, DarklordIIID, Neehs, PlanetaryJunction and Furean respectively.

This picture seems strangely familiar...Wonder why that is

[Han Shot First]

Ah, the Mako....

I think that should have appeared in the dream sequences. I mourned it more than Kaidan.

[Theodoro]

Ajosraa wrote...

Theodoro wrote...

Happy 1600th, everyone! Looks like I made it, after all!
*snip*
By: Jhourney, DarklordIIID, Neehs, PlanetaryJunction and Furean respectively.

This picture seems strangely familiar...Wonder why that is

I don't know - I swear it's the first time I see it!
Now, if that on the fan art was possible during the many times Shepard explores with the Mako, then yes - please, bring it back!

Han Shot First wrote...
I think that should have appeared in the dream sequences. I mourned it more than Kaidan.

Now that's mean! Then the Mako should have haunted your Shepard in every dream sequence, make you drive through all those spiky mountains again for hours at a time! :happy:

Modifié par Theodoro, 05 juin 2012 - 06:07 .

[TheDonk95]

Han Shot First wrote...

Ah, the Mako....

I think that should have appeared in the dream sequences. I mourned it more than Kaidan.

Oh the Mako... Memories...

[Han Shot First]

[quote]Theodoro wrote...

[quote]Han Shot First wrote...
I think that should have appeared in the dream sequences. I mourned it more than Kaidan. [/quote]
Now that's mean! Then the Mako should have haunted your Shepard in every dream sequence, make you drive through all those spiky mountains again for hours at a time! :happy:
[/quote]

[/quote]

...the horror!

Ok, scratch that.

[Ajosraa]

I think some of the dream sequences would have been better if they dident just come out of the blue. I remember the first dream sequence and not being sure what is going on. There needed to be some context that I was even asleep or in bed.

I think It would have been a lot better if it was like the voice of some reapers in Shepard's head, taunting him as soon as he gets near the kid. For example the second dream sequence was kinda going in that direction, with the spotlight then reaper sound. And instead of showing the kid catching on fire from nuthing at all, it should have showed something more with a difinitive cause and effect. Like a reaper shoots him, or steps on him, and then Shepard goes "Nooo!", then wakes up.

Or he could just barely save the kid, then have some reaper smash him last second. I think that would have illicited more guilty feelings. Maybe have the kid have the face/s of other people you couldent save, or at least have more of those people represented.

PS. Yes I also miss the Mako. I wouldent mind getting an Atlus mech on the Normandy to pilot though...maybe
even have Atlus mech only missions...Maybe even one for each squadmate...ok now Im just getting crazy;P

PSS: I think what would have made the kid more guilt inducing would also have been if during the prolouge/beginning of the game, we should have had some conversation with him. Maybe he would ask Shepard for an autography, and then Shepard might talk to him for a bit, Or maybe he could have recently meet his parents as part of his legal team or whatever. Something to make us care more about him before it all hits the fan.


Personally, what hit me as the hardest point of sorrow, was knowing about how EVERYONE is suffering. Not just little kids, but knowing the entire family's and planets full of the people are all suffering and screaming for you to help them, but you cant help them all. That all of civilization itself is at risk.

Modifié par Ajosraa, 05 juin 2012 - 06:30 .

[Akernis]

Theodoro wrote...

The dreams would have had a much bigger impact if they actually showed people from Shepard's past. The part with the voices that he/she hears during the dreams is a nice touch, but instead of running around a forest chasing a random child that is one of the many nameless unfortunate casualties from the war, Shepard should have actually seen the one who he/she sacrificed on Virmire, for instance, and anyone who she lost during the Suicide Mission - the impact being even greater if the player has allowed the deaths of his/her squad members. Shepard's past would also come into play - if he/she is the "butcher of Torfan", for example, he/she would see people from the squad that he/she sent to their deaths coming back to haunt him/her. I'd also change the location to places that Shepard has actually seen and would have an impact on him/her - crucial locations. This would work much better if we're looking for a guilt imposing method.

Agreed.
There was a suggestion made here several hudnred pages back that if Shepard is in a relationship with Liara there could be a child it should jsut be an asari, representing what Shepard might never experience if things goes wrong. I am not sure about it but it would definately have worked better for me than what we currently got.

Theodoro wrote...
If we want to go any further, we can have the dreams show potential deaths of Shepard's LI and crew, the destruction of Earth, but that's going too far into nightmare territory.

Lightspeaker actually made a scene like that in his fic just after Sovereign is destroyed. It worked surprisingly well despite that not being something I would have been fond of in the actual game.

[TrulyInnovative]

Speaking of PTSD, it's amazing how together Shepard is in the game considering (s)he was, well, resurrected. Talk about a plot point that wasn't really explored.

Modifié par TrulyInnovative, 05 juin 2012 - 06:31 .

[Ajosraa]

Ya...like why did they kill Shepard inbetween ME1 and ME2...to potentiall kill him/her again at the end of ME2....and then kill him/her at the end of ME3 in most cases...Again!

Isent it a bit redundent? ;P

Modifié par Ajosraa, 05 juin 2012 - 06:33 .