56469 réponses à ce sujet

[lillitheris]

kumquats wrote...

And we will defeat you, with an epic pose.

by Epantiras

’Course, she doesn’t end up killing Shiala…

[lillitheris]

doozer12 wrote...

you don't think those would've changed her at all into a darker realization of things? 

‘Darker realization of things’ ≠ becoming ‘dark’. Just because I understand how the world works better now than I did as a teenager doesn’t mean I approve of it any more, and certainly not that I’d perpetuate it.

Modifié par lillitheris, 11 juin 2012 - 08:09 .

[rubynorman]

Looks like Liara is the most popular LI. Liara and Garrus are also the most popular squad members in this survey.
http://www.masseffec...k/#.T8_P48UtfOK

Modifié par rubynorman, 11 juin 2012 - 07:40 .

[Erenbe]

doozer12 wrote...
All this 2d ''good feelings only'' approach to Liara's char -- ionno leaves me with a weird taste in my mouth, after watching shep die, her homeworld fall, having a hand in ending her own mother, realizing a hidden dark truth to her entire race and history not to mention the durastic realization her entire educational passion has been shaken, taking an active hand in information trading (which could get/be gritty) - you don't think those would've changed her at all into a darker realization of things?  That sometimes you do have to get your hands dirty, etc etc - that she would have a little bit better understanding and even support for seeing Renegade shep do the things he/she does?

This...so much! All this renegade bashing is a bit much IMHO. Renegade opens up some awesome rpg possibilities. I haven't yet played a 100% renegade but I've been close and I have to admit that I enjoyed it much more than the paragon approach...especially in ME2. (not saying that I don't like my paragon Shep...I do in fact).

In ME2, after being resurrected, seeing that almost everyone abandoned Shep, for me it fit sooo much better to play renegade. This channeled all the dissappointment and frustration perfectly imo. Liara's love was a perfect counterpart to this...Shep could redeem herself if she wanted to or just stick to her renegade ways and only open up to Liara. Endless possibilities which are all valid and justified. And even some of the more "psychotic" actions can be justified...executing Rana and Shiala? Well...Rana was indoctrinated as we heard in ME3...so killing her saved some people later on. Shiala? You'd never know if all the indoctrination by Saren and the Thorian didn't leave her mind in shambles. Why take the chance? For some this might be psychotic, for others that is just reasonable. 

Saying that Liara will not be able to love a renegade Shep...yeah well...I don't agree. This image of Liara being all good and shy and perfect...that is too 1dimensional. She's not perfect...she is as much a "human" being as Shep is with all her problems and doubts, etc. And after going through what she had to go through in ME2 I would be surprised if her image of the galaxy wouldn't have changed. And yes...all the gritty work as a Shadow Broker...that leaves some traces on one's personality. 

So, could we please stop the bashing of one side or the other? Both renegade and paragon can be justified rather well in the game and I'd think that Liara's character description and background are vague enough for everyone to find their Liara that fits well to their Shepard.

Your Liara might not necessarily fit to my Shepard but my Liara does. Generalization doesn't work here and I'd like to think that each and every Liara has her right of existence (same for every Shep). Because in the end....she's just that...Liara...who we all agree on loving quite a bit, don't we? 

[lillitheris]

^ Sure, you‘re welcome to interpret her as you like. I’ll just say again that my objection is not RShep + Liara, it’s RShep + Liara + how RShep treats everyone else.

Modifié par lillitheris, 11 juin 2012 - 08:07 .

[Erenbe]

lillitheris wrote...

^ Sure, you‘re welcome to interpret her as you like. I’ll just say again that my objection is not RShep + Liara, it’s RShep + Liara + how RShep treats everyone else.

And that is a valid opinion. I am not criticizing you for that. You can't see Rshep+Liara because of the renegade part..well, then you don't play it like that. That is the beauty of the different ways one can play Shep. As I said...they all have their justification.

It just gets a bit tiresome getting it constantly rubbed into my face that Liara will never be able to love a RShep. And if I would have to summarize the posts on the last few pages then that's the essence of it. That's why I think that this discussion about RShep and PShep doesn't lead anywhere because the opinions are too different. So, could we all just agree to disagree and stop bashing one side or the other? 

I don't mind a good discussion about controverse subjects...but imo we reached the end of this one. 

Anywho, feel free to disagree with my statements and continue with the discussion if you really have to. I am not making the rules here, but I would welcome a change of topic. 

[lillitheris]

Erenbe wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

…it’s RShep + Liara + how RShep treats everyone else.

And that is a valid opinion. I am not criticizing you for that. You can't see Rshep+Liara because…

Please read again. The distinction is really important.

But sure, change of topic.

Modifié par lillitheris, 11 juin 2012 - 08:26 .

[kumquats]

lillitheris wrote...

’Course, she doesn’t end up killing Shiala…

Why so serious?

[Theodoro]

How do you guys imagine asari language would sound like? From words and names of places and people that we've heard throughout the games, it sounds like it's a beautiful language. I can't quite say which language here it resembles, but from what we've heard, it seems like it would be very pleasant to listen to. Then again - there could well be multiple asari languages like on Earth, but there does seem to be a tendency in the names that they give their daughters, cities and planets to make it sound like that there is a dominant language like English here.

Modifié par Theodoro, 11 juin 2012 - 09:06 .

[Yuqi]

doozer12 wrote...

Hmmm..
*Throws on lord helmets oversized vader helmet*
"I knew it im surrounded by..." paragons!

"Besides we all know 'the shadow-broker' has to babysit paragon-shep" -- rofl this!
*snip*

 Also another question:  Does anyone think that maybe Liara never really stopped mourning Shep? Even after cerberus and whatnot...knowing the high risk of the reaper war and whatnot...perhaps distancing herself a wee bit?  Im sure she prays it won't come to pass (again..), but that inner realist of her knows it to be a very likely truth.  She even mentions the one thing she wanted most (wasn't to have shepard alive) but was the war to end while theres a galaxy left to save - is the cost of doing that worth it to her?

*Snip*

Well she does....babysit.. in ME3.

Yes I got that feeling in ME3 and looking back , the LOTSB cabin scene was filled with forshadowing. I got the sense that she kept distant  because she knew/sensed Shep wouldn't survive the war. To me it came across as (headcannons aside.) Shepard didn't want to come back, especially with some of the things he or she says. (The final goodbye with garus comes to mind.)

rubynorman wrote...

Looks like Liara is the most popular LI. Liara and Garrus are also the most popular squad members in this survey.
http://www.masseffec...k/#.T8_P48UtfOK

Surveys are mostly fictional, they are too easily rigged and 'appropriatly-adjusted.'

And that PAragon picture about teaching kids reminded me of zoolander..Well Paragon Shep is about that stupid......*coughs*

[lillitheris]

Theodoro wrote...

How do you guys imagine asari language would sound like? From words and names of places and people that we've heard throughout the games, it sounds like it's a beautiful language. I can't quite say which language here it resembles, but from what we've heard, it seems like it would be very pleasant to listen to. Then again - there could well be multiple asari languages like on Earth, but there does seem to be a tendency in the names that they give their daughters, cities and planets to make it sound like that there is a dominant language like English here.

I’ve already defined the basics of 3 asari languages

[shepard1038]

Yuqi wrote...

doozer12 wrote...

Hmmm..
*Throws on lord helmets oversized vader helmet*
"I knew it im surrounded by..." paragons!

"Besides we all know 'the shadow-broker' has to babysit paragon-shep" -- rofl this!
*snip*

 Also another question:  Does anyone think that maybe Liara never really stopped mourning Shep? Even after cerberus and whatnot...knowing the high risk of the reaper war and whatnot...perhaps distancing herself a wee bit?  Im sure she prays it won't come to pass (again..), but that inner realist of her knows it to be a very likely truth.  She even mentions the one thing she wanted most (wasn't to have shepard alive) but was the war to end while theres a galaxy left to save - is the cost of doing that worth it to her?

*Snip*

Well she does....babysit.. in ME3.

Yes I got that feeling in ME3 and looking back , the LOTSB cabin scene was filled with forshadowing. I got the sense that she kept distant  because she knew/sensed Shep wouldn't survive the war. To me it came across as (headcannons aside.) Shepard didn't want to come back, especially with some of the things he or she says. (The final goodbye with garus comes to mind.)

rubynorman wrote...

Looks like Liara is the most popular LI. Liara and Garrus are also the most popular squad members in this survey.
http://www.masseffec...k/#.T8_P48UtfOK

Surveys are mostly fictional, they are too easily rigged and 'appropriatly-adjusted.'

And that PAragon picture about teaching kids reminded me of zoolander..Well Paragon Shep is about that stupid......*coughs*

Im sorry im a Paragon and I don't think Liara babysits Paragon Shepard. One thing is babysitting and another is
comforting. Liara was comforting Paragon Shepard in Mass Effect 3. Because paragon shepard feels bad and sad about the war and the people that are going to die and all his/ hers friends that have died.
 
The thing is is that paragon shepard opens up and lets Liara know how he feels. And is it so bad for Liara to comfort shepard knowing what hes been through and what has happened. What is really stupid is renegade
shepard being a douchebag to everyone and thats why renegade shepard ends at the end of Mass Effect 3 with
almost nobody. But we have to at least agree that full renegade and full paragon is stupid.

Actually Liara and Garrus are the most popular. Every statistical analysis and survey shows that. It seems a lot of people can't get enough of blue.

Modifié par shepard1038, 11 juin 2012 - 09:47 .

[rubynorman]

Have an unfinished fanart of Liara guys and gals. I've not finished coloring this. And my Shepard looks bad in it so I cut her out.. for now It's time for my aikido class.

[shepard1038]

rubynorman wrote...

Have an unfinished fanart of Liara guys and gals. I've not finished coloring this. And my Shepard looks bad in it so I cut her out.. for now It's time for my aikido class.

You forgot her freckles.

Modifié par shepard1038, 11 juin 2012 - 09:49 .

[rubynorman]

shepard1038 wrote...

rubynorman wrote...

Have an unfinished fanart of Liara guys and gals. I've not finished coloring this. And my Shepard looks bad in it so I cut her out.. for now It's time for my aikido class.

You forgot her freckels.

No I didn't But they're too small, it's hard to see them

Modifié par rubynorman, 11 juin 2012 - 09:51 .

[fluffywalrus]

I'm not entirely sure Paragon and Renegade are suitable descriptors to Sheps, or characters in Mass Effect as a whole.

I mean, it just doesn't seem fitting. A lot of the 'renegade' and 'paragon' options offer different means to achieve the same end, based on the same intentions.
I mean, look at Wrex...he's pretty much "renegade", but he fights for some really good stuff, even if his methods are coarse and rough. It makes sense. Being more of a loose cannon doesn't mean you're a worse person.

I mean, I think Bioware kind of dropped the ball on some of the "paragon" and "renegade" options, as they just seemed too ridiculous or terrible, but for the most part they're incredibly similar, just using different mannerisms. They started implementing weird changes that actually insinuated or asserted one Shepard is morally superior than another, that one form of mannerism is superior to another.

I have a hard time seeing Paragon shep as a "pansy" much the same as I have a hard time seeing Renegade shep as a lunatic. :\\ 

And generally, I have a hard time seeing how Liara could find herself incredibly opposed to either. :\\

Modifié par fluffywalrus, 11 juin 2012 - 09:55 .

[Arcataye]

Akernis wrote...

Though I will have to say that I still enjoy Wingedmoggy's comics even if her Shepard is more than a bit renegade, I don't take them seriously and by that extension I don't think they are that bad, even if I strongly disagree with some of the choices.
At the least she treats Liara well.

Yeah, the renegade choices are mentioned in a couple of them and they're not the point of those comics. I don't know how seeing Morinth in two of them make them all bad. I think the interaction between Liara and Shepard is well done, she isn't psycho at all to Liara, or to anyone else for that matter. She gets angry at someone in some of them but that ain't psycho.

rubynorman wrote...

http://www.masseffec...k/#.T8_P48UtfOK

The most emotional moment for some people was Eve's death (or Kai Leng's).

Yuqi wrote...

And that PAragon picture about teaching kids reminded me of zoolander..Well Paragon Shep is about that stupid......*coughs*

Oh that's nice...

Modifié par Arcataye, 11 juin 2012 - 10:00 .

[Yuqi]

Arcataye wrote...

Oh that's nice...

What can I say? You Paragons make me sick :devil:

Modifié par Yuqi, 11 juin 2012 - 10:23 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

I can easily see renegade Shepard and Liara together after his or her return from the dead, because Liara has gotten alot darker. That still leaves how their relationship startet in ME1 to question, but I can imagine Liara still falling for a renegade who is not a complete psycho (the ones who kill Shiala and later Samara).

And now for conspiracy theory time: Anyone noticed how Shepard only begins to headbutt people in ME2? I think Liara infected Shepard's mind with some of her quater-Krogan mindset back in ME1!

[TheDonk95]

@Lizardviking I have to disagree with your opinion, I don't think Liara can love or have any bond or relationship with a man that killed innocent Asari (like Shiala or Samara). I also have to disagree with you when you said that she has gotten alot more darker. This isn't what happened. I know that you don't mean that she suddenly turned evil and that she's now like Saren or something and that she just got darker, but even that isn't the case. Liara has got more mature, that is right, but she hasn't turned dark. I agree that she is alot less innocent and paragon than she was in ME1, but she is still the 'merciful' and sweet Liara from ME1. She didn't turn into a dark, ruthless Liara.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

TheDonk95 wrote...

@Lizardviking I have to disagree with your opinion, I don't think Liara can love or have any bond or relationship with a man that killed innocent Asari (like Shiala or Samara).

You misread me. I said that I cannot see Liara liking the psycho renegade Shepard who does these choices.

I also have to disagree with you when you said that she has gotten alot more darker. This isn't what happened. I know that you don't mean that she suddenly turned evil and that she's now like Saren or something and that she just got darker, but even that isn't the case. Liara has got more mature, that is right, but she hasn't turned dark. I agree that she is alot less innocent and paragon than she was in ME1, but she is still the 'merciful' and sweet Liara from ME1. She didn't turn into a dark, ruthless Liara.

She has gotten darker. She is in a shady buisness, ordering assasinations and blackmails Shepard emotionally to assist her with it by saying that she would kill more people if he does not help. I know the SB agents are most likely badguys themselves, but it is still somewhat dark.

[TheDonk95]

Lizardviking wrote...

She has gotten darker. She is in a shady buisness, ordering assasinations and blackmails Shepard emotionally to assist her with it by saying that she would kill more people if he does not help. I know the SB agents are most likely badguys themselves, but it is still somewhat dark.

If this is what you mean by darker then yeah, she has got a little bit darker. I thought that you meant really dark, like Benezia or something (that's why it was wierd for me to hear you say that - becuase she is nothing like Benezia).
As I said, I agree Liara is darker and more mature than before Shepard's death. She is now working as an information broker, threatning people and blackmailing them, but I think that this change is really minor, and that her personality is still the same. So yeah, I kinda agree with you.

[adneate]

doozer12 wrote...
Does anyone think that maybe Liara never really stopped mourning Shep? Even after cerberus and whatnot...knowing the high risk of the reaper war and whatnot...perhaps distancing herself a wee bit?  Im sure she prays it won't come to pass (again..), but that inner realist of her knows it to be a very likely truth.  She even mentions the one thing she wanted most (wasn't to have shepard alive) but was the war to end while theres a galaxy left to save - is the cost of doing that worth it to her?

The problem with that is it's a really meta concept that Shepard is going to die and she won't even though they'll be doing the same things and facing the same danger. The Crucible isn't powered by sacrifice to the Sun God, everyone thinks it's just a giant EMP bomb of some kind. Shepard dieing and Liara living is as likely in context as Liara dieing and Shepard living or both of them dieing.

She mentions the galaxy mainly because she doesn't know what's going to happen, if either of them will survive the war. Victory is the only thing that makes the risk worth it even then she entertains her favourite flight of fancy, which is to run away from the war so they'll both be safe. She doesn't hold back even a little though for loyal Shep, she fully gives herself to the relationship and is content with that choice. Even if she'll be crushed by it later.

[lillitheris]

Here’s a peace offering: the slightly renegade Beth ‘Gibs’ Shepard performing a song for Liara.


Edit: apparently I like being on top… Liara approves.

Modifié par lillitheris, 11 juin 2012 - 02:49 .

[lillitheris]

Lizardviking wrote...

She has gotten darker. She is in a shady buisness, ordering assasinations and blackmails Shepard emotionally to assist her with it by saying that she would kill more people if he does not help. I know the SB agents are most likely badguys themselves, but it is still somewhat dark.

…Yeah, I don’t think there’s a middle ground to be found here.