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Liara Fans: keep your love blue and true!


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#40651
Arcataye

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adneate wrote...

I think there's different levels of Asari relationships, melds being the most simple linking a mind for the purpose of pleasure.
A Union is the next step, minds are linked but memories are also shared, this is someone who interests you or you feel comfortable with and you're permanently taking a part of them into yourself.
Bondmates being the most complex, everything is shared it like a union only nothing is held back and the exchange or memories is full and absolute. You forever carry the full measure of your bondmate and they carry the full measure of you, your minds never to be unfamiliar to each other ever again.


Yeah. Didn't Liara say something like that too?
I somehow recall her telling that the bond is sharing everything the person is, mind and soul, so they both have a part of the other even after one of them dies.

#40652
adneate

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Arcataye wrote...
I somehow recall her telling that the bond is sharing everything the person is, mind and soul, so they both have a part of the other even after one of them dies.


She does say that a true union, a full bonding with another, blends the two personalities together in a way that trancendes not only the individual self but the very bonds life and death. You permanently change them and they permanently change you, in the most deep sense you carry all their memories and emotions and they carry all of yours. I'd just expand it out to say that a bondmate is who you perform that with, which is why Liara doesn't use the term until after the London meld. Which I think is that exchange, full and complete all memories and all experiences from Liara to Shepard and vice versa.

Which is part of the reason I personally think Asari don't take many "true" bondmates in a life if only because it's probably hard to find someone you'd want to show and share everything with and would be willing to do the same for you. Whereas the "flash card" type exchange is probably pretty easy to come across, you show them what you want to and they what they want to. However that's not what Liara and Shepard are doing by the end of the game.

Going into pure speculation, I can imagine the reason for doing this is both an act of love but it also serves a more practical purpose which is that "marking" the mind of another in that way facilitates much simpler meldings. Since the mind of your bondmate would no longer find your mind alien or unfamiliar but rather as an extension of itself. You could just flow in and out of it as easily as a casual conversation.

#40653
Han Shot First

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I think the melding is also the reason that Liara seems interested in Shepard, right from the start. In real life it takes time to get to know someone, but I think the melding sort of fast tracks that. While it isn't mind reading, I do think characters come away from it with an impression of who the other person is.

Consider that Shepard is 2 for 2 in Asari characters who've melded with him wanting to have a relationship with him afterwards. (Shiala being the other Asari)

#40654
lillitheris

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IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

I also hate Traynor as much as I like her because she got the character development Kelly never recieved!


I thought Kelly kinda meh, too…I dunno. Traynor’s more substantial. <3 Sam.

#40655
IliyaMoroumetz

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lillitheris wrote...

I thought Kelly kinda meh, too…I dunno. Traynor’s more substantial. <3 Sam.


Yes, because they actually gave Traynor some actual development and made her a full character.  See where I'm going with this?

#40656
PMC65

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IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

I thought Kelly kinda meh, too…I dunno. Traynor’s more substantial. <3 Sam.


Yes, because they actually gave Traynor some actual development and made her a full character.  See where I'm going with this?


Contrary to how others see Traynor as a Liara 2.0 I've always seen her as a Kelly 2.0 ... Kelly was a bright cookie who gave you spot on feedback about each character you brought on board. She was sweet, open and a breath of fresh air on a ship with high maintenance peeps ... Traynor was the same thing for me. She asked for nothing ... but was always there to help Shepard. Oh, and she made Shepard's shower have purpose! Image IPB

Enjoyed both these characters that seemed lost in the Mass Effect universe. No drama, parent-issues or needs other than romance from Shepard. Sweet!

#40657
adneate

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Han Shot First wrote...
Consider that Shepard is 2 for 2 in Asari characters who've melded with him wanting to have a relationship with him afterwards. (Shiala being the other Asari)


I felt bad for Shiala during her little cameo in ME2, she seemed so lonely. I guess surviving can be it's own death sentence. Though it would have been great to have her around some more, her whole Thorian terminal illness thing could have been really interesting. The thing that's killing her body is saving her mind.

Plus her voice actress is utterly enchanting and ME3 really needs another Sentinel character if you don't have Kaidan around, they doubled us up on Soldiers (the least useful squadmates) but not Sentinels? You can't explain that!

#40658
Arcataye

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adneate wrote...

She does say that a true union, a full bonding with another, blends the two personalities together in a way that trancendes not only the individual self but the very bonds life and death. You permanently change them and they permanently change you, in the most deep sense you carry all their memories and emotions and they carry all of yours. I'd just expand it out to say that a bondmate is who you perform that with, which is why Liara doesn't use the term until after the London meld. Which I think is that exchange, full and complete all memories and all experiences from Liara to Shepard and vice versa.

That would explain the puzzled look on Shepard's face after returning to "reality".
The scene inside the meld doesn't suggest that but whatever, "lots of headcanon for everyone".

adneate wrote...

Since the mind of your bondmate would no longer find your mind alien or unfamiliar but rather as an extension of itself. You could just flow in and out of it as easily as a casual conversation.

From Rae's Returned:
"She felt her lover stir within her mind, and could tell that Liara was waking up."
I don't know if that's too far, but I could see something along those lines happening. It's a nice thought. ^_^

Modifié par Arcataye, 12 juin 2012 - 05:56 .


#40659
TheDonk95

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I never saw Samantha as a Liara v.2... But I always saw her as a good replacement for Kelly. I perfer Samantha over Kelly.

#40660
lillitheris

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IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

I thought Kelly kinda meh, too…I dunno. Traynor’s more substantial. <3 Sam.


Yes, because they actually gave Traynor some actual development and made her a full character.  See where I'm going with this?


Hm, no…what are you getting at?

#40661
adneate

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Arcataye wrote...
That would explain the puzzled look on Shepard's face after returning to "reality".
The scene inside the meld doesn't suggest that but whatever, "lots of headcanon for everyone".


That being said the meld has alway been kinda trippy and abstract mainly because everyone's character is going to have different memories and experiences. It's part of having a vaguely or loosely defined main character, so it's open to interpretation. Plus going through the sum total of two people's lives would probably take a while in real time, thus it's "cut for time".

Gotta get to that great ending scene with the little genocidal ghost ASAP. *ties noose to hang self*

Arcataye wrote...
From Rae's Returned:
"She felt her lover stir within her mind, and could tell that Liara was waking up."

I don't know if that's too far, but I could see something along those lines happening. It's a nice thought.


Maybe, I'd have written it as simply more vague. More like assumptions or feelings you can't quite explain but you believe in fully. It being a bit of mystery if there is something transcended about them of if they're just assumptions you make based on knowing someone as well as you could know yourself.

Though I like to think Liara knows if Shepard survived or not at the end and Shepard if Liara did. We shattered the universe and killed Space God at the end that's gotta come with some cosmic perks. ;)

#40662
IliyaMoroumetz

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lillitheris wrote...
Hm, no…what are you getting at?


What I'm getting at is that had BW given Kelly some actual development and made her a full character, full romance, and all, then perhaps she would have gotten a better deal out of the story instead of being referred to as the Village Bicycle, which is quite untrue, and frankly, insulting if you're trying to push games forward as an artistic medium.

tl;dr: Traynor is basically Kelly had the writers actually gave a toot about her, but she seemed only half-done.

Modifié par IliyaMoroumetz, 12 juin 2012 - 06:22 .


#40663
Brooks Mac

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The painting Theodoro posted a picture of, is it for sale? Who is the artist?

#40664
PMC65

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IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

lillitheris wrote...
Hm, no…what are you getting at?


What I'm getting at is that had BW given Kelly some actual development and made her a full character, full romance, and all, then perhaps she would have gotten a better deal out of the story instead of being referred to as the Village Bicycle, which is quite untrue, and frankly, insulting if you're trying to push games forward as an artistic medium.

tl;dr: Traynor is basically Kelly had the writers actually gave a toot about her, but she seemed only half-done.


"Bicycle bicycle bicycle
I want to ride my bicycle bicycle bicycle"

Thanks IM ... now on my hike here shortly Queen's Bicycle Race is going to play non-stop in my head! Image IPB

#40665
IliyaMoroumetz

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PMC65 wrote...


"Bicycle bicycle bicycle
I want to ride my bicycle bicycle bicycle"

Thanks IM ... now on my hike here shortly Queen's Bicycle Race is going to play non-stop in my head! Image IPB


Queen's awesome, so, that's perfectly acceptable.

#40666
DOsquareZER

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IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

PMC65 wrote...


"Bicycle bicycle bicycle
I want to ride my bicycle bicycle bicycle"

Thanks IM ... now on my hike here shortly Queen's Bicycle Race is going to play non-stop in my head! Image IPB


Queen's awesome, so, that's perfectly acceptable.


Its only when you get the random fuzzy images of kelly while singing it that theres an issue :P

Modifié par doozer12, 12 juin 2012 - 06:33 .


#40667
PMC65

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doozer12 wrote...

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

PMC65 wrote...


"Bicycle bicycle bicycle
I want to ride my bicycle bicycle bicycle"

Thanks IM ... now on my hike here shortly Queen's Bicycle Race is going to play non-stop in my head! Image IPB


Queen's awesome, so, that's perfectly acceptable.


Its only when you get the random fuzzy images of kelly while singing it that theres an issue :P


Two words ... village bicycle Image IPB

IM's fault it is! *shakes fist at him*

#40668
moreeman06

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IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

moreeman06 wrote...

she does mention something about how the fish weren't the only things kelly was feeding during LOTSB 


I don't recall ever hearing that line.  Nor do I think that line exists. Mainly because Kelly was never considered a full romance in ME2, which kinda made me sad because I really liked Kelly because she was one of the few characters, if not the only one, without guile.  She was sincere and I really liked that... even wrote a 30 chapter story about her. (Shameless plug!)

I also hate Traynor as much as I like her because she got the character development Kelly never recieved!

But anyway....


Its ok i liked Kelly and Traynor both and i could have sworn that Liara said something about Kelly post-Vasir when i get home I'll play through it again and see if i can dig it up

#40669
Jebel Krong

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doozer12 wrote...
T'SONI GOT VENGEANCE!!!
Wasn't there a moderate "My shepard would never do that!" cry after arrival, just because paragon shepards thought they would never do such a thing, they got shuffleboarded into the same category as a renegade for a hard call (which, iguess, like most things in ME2&3 could be boiled down to poor writing).


vengeance without official sanction is still murder. as for the other: it's simply because shepard is a semi-predefined character, and therefor some actions happen/happened regardless: many people forget you can only roleplay within the constraints of the character as determined by BW at least in part.

DevilBeast wrote...

So oyu resent the idea of the krogan wanting to expand?? Well, guess you don´t like how humanity intrudes everywhere (there´s a reason why humans are perceived as bullies by the other species), the turians and their "client" races (I wouldn´t be too surprised if they wanted to do the same to humanity, if the FCW had ended in their favor). 
And we shouldn´t foget the salarians either; their ambitions are... troubling to say the least. I mean, uplifting the krogan clearly turned out bad, and now they want to do the same with the yagh?? Something tells me the salarians have problems with learning from their mistakes.

Anyway, my point is that no species, race whatever is innocent or better than the others. Even the peace loving asari clearly have a desire for power. An evolutionary trait, I think.

 

no i don't: i didn't like the way wrex was talking abot how they were going to expand though: empire-building sounded far too much like the "old" kogan for me. and hell, i love wrex - we still disagreed over that, though. I'd have liked the ending to be diferent just so i could see how that played out tbh. as for the other races, including the asari: they all have their faults, sure - again that richness is kind of stripped away by the ending though.

fluffywalrus wrote...

It's because (sorry if I offend anyone/you here) of the absolutely stupid and romanticized notion some people have that there are such things as soulmates/"one true love", that there is one person in all of existence that's perfect for them.

So, by that logic, how could Liara move on? Seeing as the Asari often have many romantic partners in their lives, they can't likely be soulmates with anyone. And if Liara is, then she'd be cheatng and undermining her and Shep's relationship by getting together with other people, obviously.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

It's stupid, and it's just as stuupid as believing in a "happily ever after"(which coincidentally often is used as an ending tagline in stories after two characters have wed...life is not that simple and it's idiotic that some people believe HEA exists). Truth is, there are untold amounts of people that are compatible with each living person across the world, an astounding amount of people any individual could come to deeply love...but most don't have the resources to look internationally for them. Most stick within their chosen city or region, or workplace, or whatever. And that, by some coincidence, their "soulmate" was destined to live near them.

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest. Had a related convo today with a friend, was frustrating. 

TL;DR: People who think Liara is a bad LI because she'll eventually move on from Shep are ridiculous people who apply an idiotic fantasy to the notion of love.

 

i certainly believe in soulmates, and love at first sight, for example (hell i've certainly experienced the latter, the former... maybe, but not so easy). however i agree that that can happen more than once - the concepts are not mutually exclusive. As you said there are many chances for compatibility, given sufficient time and/or resources. "happil ever after..." is the silly one.

#40670
Jebel Krong

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Arcataye wrote...

adneate wrote...

I think there's different levels of Asari relationships, melds being the most simple linking a mind for the purpose of pleasure.
A Union is the next step, minds are linked but memories are also shared, this is someone who interests you or you feel comfortable with and you're permanently taking a part of them into yourself.
Bondmates being the most complex, everything is shared it like a union only nothing is held back and the exchange or memories is full and absolute. You forever carry the full measure of your bondmate and they carry the full measure of you, your minds never to be unfamiliar to each other ever again.


Yeah. Didn't Liara say something like that too?
I somehow recall her telling that the bond is sharing everything the person is, mind and soul, so they both have a part of the other even after one of them dies.


i like that.

#40671
eoinnx03

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I just saw the ''leak' about the extended cut. I don't no why I feel let down again. They did say that they were keeping the crappy ending.
Shame about the little blue children.

#40672
Arcataye

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Brooks Mac wrote...

The painting Theodoro posted a picture of, is it for sale? Who is the artist?

I doubt it but you could always ask. I linked the artist a few pages back, but here: PRG1

Modifié par Arcataye, 12 juin 2012 - 06:55 .


#40673
Tyrannosaurus Rex

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eoinnx03 wrote...

I just saw the ''leak' about the extended cut. I don't no why I feel let down again. They did say that they were keeping the crappy ending.
Shame about the little blue children.


I doubt those leaks are true.

#40674
eoinnx03

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Lizardviking wrote...

eoinnx03 wrote...

I just saw the ''leak' about the extended cut. I don't no why I feel let down again. They did say that they were keeping the crappy ending.
Shame about the little blue children.


I doubt those leaks are true.


They do match up with what bioware has been saying all along.

#40675
TheDonk95

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eoinnx03 wrote...

I just saw the ''leak' about the extended cut. I don't no why I feel let down again. They did say that they were keeping the crappy ending.
Shame about the little blue children.


Link please!!!!!