56469 réponses à ce sujet

[Rikketik]

frudi wrote...
@Rikketik:
I agree, it was a touching scene between Shep and Liara, I'm really glad for that short exchange they have. The problem I have is with the whole notion of Normandy just picking them up in the middle of the desperate conduit run. It's like they wanted to quickly fix one plot-hole and through thoughtlessness only managed to introduce new ones. I would say it would have been better had they just left the teleporting squadmates alone, but at least we got the Shep & Liara scene.

Yeah, I agree.

spoiler
I was watching that scene (before the scene with Liara and Shepard) and I just thought: why the hell isn't the Normandy getting shot at? Is Harbinger suddenly gone blind? But after the scene with your LI and other squadmate, it made sense that this was probably the best solution BioWare could offer to the "where did your squadmates go?" plothole. It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing. It really meant a lot to me that I  at least had the chance to say goodbye to Liara, that she was everything to me and would always will be.
/end spoiler

[Rikketik]

Haha, I think I know how you feel. When I first saw the extended endings, I was satisfied. They weren't perfect, but at least they gave me the feeling that the trilogy had ended in a worthy manner. But the more I read into it and the more inconsistencies I notice, the more annoyed I become. So I think I'll just try to focus on the good parts -- such as the scene with Liara -- and leave it at that.

[DOsquareZER]

Rikketik wrote...

Haha, I think I know how you feel. When I first saw the extended endings, I was satisfied. They weren't perfect, but at least they gave me the feeling that the trilogy had ended in a worthy manner. But the more I read into it and the more inconsistencies I notice, the more annoyed I become. So I think I'll just try to focus on the good parts -- such as the scene with Liara -- and leave it at that.

Thats it right there.  Bioware wont/cant fix the massive case of walteristic hudsonism that's ransacked the story of ME (not without doing some serious rewrites of both 2 and 3), it really is pointless to continue raging anymore about it - i wasnt expecting much with this EC, good on them I guess for trying even though...forget it lol im done hatin', pretty much what you said.  Im gonna take the implied romance reunion (head canon basically fixed that issue before EC) because that's all i really figured BW could drag out of the ashes of their crashed plot but meh vaguely hinting at it is something Ill just take and move on.  Not sure Im gonna be buying anymore bioware stuff anytime soon, but alas...
*raises a glass* C'est la vie. 


Also as horrifying as staring into the face of a green eyed glowing husk was... Tricia Helfer's voice acting in it was pretty damn good.  Im gonna stick with the red, though for...various reasons.  Sorry EDI and Geth and Shepard's implants and various synthetic tech...   

Modifié par doozer12, 27 juin 2012 - 06:12 .

[IliyaMoroumetz]

I'm going to need a bit of time to properly process all of it. I may come to the same conclusions, but yeah.
Thank goodness for fanfiction. That's all I got to say.

Modifié par IliyaMoroumetz, 27 juin 2012 - 05:33 .

[STEEEEVE]

All I know is the little pouty face Liara makes during the trench run (right after she says "I'm alright... Shepard!) is the most adorable face in the entire ME3 trilogy. Please tell me somebody caught it.

[DOsquareZER]

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

I'm going to need a bit of time to properly process all of it. I may come to the same conclusions, but yeah.
Thank goodness for fanfiction. That's all I got to say.

Fan fiction!  Hoo-Ha-Ha.  (finding nemo reference)  lol that's where I'll be.

@STEEEEVE And yea i caught the pouty face - and the temporary frustrated face, and the sad face and the amazsing diappearing upside down mako trick in the background! 

Spoil of Ers.
Man thats twice my Shep's told Liara to go and then subsequently run off to get herself killed.  Poor girl, I feel awful lol.
End spoil of ers.

Modifié par doozer12, 27 juin 2012 - 06:00 .

[TheDonk95]

STEEEEVE wrote...

All I know is the little pouty face Liara makes during the trench run (right after she says "I'm alright... Shepard!) is the most adorable face in the entire ME3 trilogy. Please tell me somebody caught it.

That face caught me there... It was so difficult for me to say goodbye to her...

[MidnightRaith]

I really feel that Bioware did the bare minimum required to try to get the crashing plane that was Mass Effect out of a nose dive. To me, it feels like rather than the crash and burn, with no survivors, that they originally had, has been salvaged into merely a crash landing. Hooray! You did mediocre work that would have shamed the teams behind KotOR, NWK, Jade Empire and DA:O.

However, I feel that the general consensus around here is to just forgive and forget. I'm sorry, but that's not going to work with me. What Casey and Mac did was downright shameful and nearly killed this series and they want to fix it with something that was barely polished and only fixed the bare minimum of issues we had with this. I'm not bitterly disappointed or anything, however this is far from making me satisfied. Nothing they did made me happy. The EC did nothing more than to make the endings marginally bearable. Congratulations, Bioware, you closed out one of the best video game series I've ever played with an ending that did absolutely no justice to it. So, I suppose in the long run, EC did not in fact, fix the endings....

[Erenbe]

 Meh, I am still highly undecided about the EC but tend to go more towards the lines of not liking it very much. Yeah, it left a slightly better feeling then the original ending but it's still a cheep cop out. Spoilers and opinions following, please highlight to read.
I have to say that the strange evacuation scene and Harby poking his nose in the meantime is rather unrealistic. I mean, come on...he shoots at everything that moves but suddenly looses all interest? Yeah...whatever. It explains why your squadmates are suddenly on the Normandy but it feels tacked on in a not so intelligent way. But yeah, some more Liara. That usually helps to convince people to overlook some of the less thought-through happenings.
The added Liara scene was beautiful but still sad. Send her off again, why don't you Shep...god her facial expression broke my heart. 
The hesitation to put up the plaque at the memorial wall gives me a bit of hope, really, it does, but it's not enough. And I couldn not recognize whether she actually keeps the plaque or puts it on in the last moment...so yeah...too vague for my taste.

The breather scene is just plain annoying to me now. ME1 did it right...we see Shep ermerging from the rubbles und you know that yeah, you saved the day and all is going to be fine....would it have been sooo much of a problem to slightly expand on the breather scene and to just show some soldiers digging in the rubbles of the citadel and one suddenly screaming something like "I found her...she's here....oh my god....get a medic, GET A MEDIC!" or something like that? Now that would still not necessarily imply a happy end for those who are against a reunion and unicorns and rainbows but it would give us (those who want happy end and all) a bit more to cling to besides the breather scene. I mean, seriously...how long can Shep survive underneath all that rubble on an empty citadel with heavy injuries? S yes, they imply that a reunion is maybe possible but it is way to vague for me to be satisfying

Rejection ending was intense...really, really intense....and Liara's appearance in the time capsule made me choke up. Well done from an emotional point of view.....not well done with what it implies. I agree with others on the forum that this is just a big F**k you from Bioware. The only time you actually have an active choice to behave like the Shepard you know and like, it ends in loosing by default and the destruction of all civilisations. Lame...really lame. Add this as an option for low EMS or something...but not as an active choice ending with a defeat by default.

So yeah....not impressed but I didn't expect much in the first place so I am also not too dissappointed. For me it doesn't save Bioware's graces. I still have no wish to replay that game as it is still a bug-riddled one and the endings are still souring the experience for me. And I will still be highly suspicious of any DLC being announced and will most likely not buy them. No pre-ordering for me either as I really don't want to go through the same sh*t as with ME3. No believing in any hype created by EA's 'fantastic' PR team or IGN. They've dissappointed me too badly in their first try and the EC doesn't do a good enough job for me to forget about it. So yeah....off we go to some other games I guess. 

MidnightRaith wrote...

I really feel that Bioware did the bare minimum required to try to get the crashing plane that was Mass Effect out of a nose dive. To me, it feels like rather than the crash and burn, with no survivors, that they originally had, has been salvaged into merely a crash landing. Hooray! You did mediocre work that would have shamed the teams behind KotOR, NWK, Jade Empire and DA:O. 

However, I feel that the general consensus around here is to just forgive and forget. I'm sorry, but that's not going to work with me. What Casey and Mac did was downright shameful and nearly killed this series and they want to fix it with something that was barely polished and only fixed the bare minimum of issues we had with this. I'm not bitterly disappointed or anything, however this is far from making me satisfied. Nothing they did made me happy. The EC did nothing more than to make the endings marginally bearable. Congratulations, Bioware, you closed out one of the best video game series I've ever played with an ending that did absolutely no justice to it. So, I suppose in the long run, EC did not in fact, fix the endings....

This so much. Yes...I agree 100% with you! Any game in the future bearing either the name Casey Hudson or Mac Walters will be treated like toxic waste by me.

Modifié par Erenbe, 27 juin 2012 - 06:53 .

[TheDonk95]

MidnightRaith wrote...

I really feel that Bioware did the bare minimum required to try to get the crashing plane that was Mass Effect out of a nose dive. To me, it feels like rather than the crash and burn, with no survivors, that they originally had, has been salvaged into merely a crash landing. Hooray! You did mediocre work that would have shamed the teams behind KotOR, NWK, Jade Empire and DA:O.

However, I feel that the general consensus around here is to just forgive and forget. I'm sorry, but that's not going to work with me. What Casey and Mac did was downright shameful and nearly killed this series and they want to fix it with something that was barely polished and only fixed the bare minimum of issues we had with this. I'm not bitterly disappointed or anything, however this is far from making me satisfied. Nothing they did made me happy. The EC did nothing more than to make the endings marginally bearable. Congratulations, Bioware, you closed out one of the best video game series I've ever played with an ending that did absolutely no justice to it. So, I suppose in the long run, EC did not in fact, fix the endings....

They did a good job on expanding the ending, the only problem is, the ending itself from the beginning was awful...
They should have just written a whole new ending... Too bad their ego and 'artistic intergity' didn't allow them...

Modifié par TheDonk95, 27 juin 2012 - 06:53 .

[MidnightRaith]

TheDonk95 wrote...

They did a good job on expanding the ending, the only problem is, the ending itself from the beginning was awful...
They should have just written a whole new ending... Too bad their ego and 'artistic intergity' didn't allow them...

Saying they did a good job is rather debatable. Personally, I feel that Bioware did not do anything even remotely impressive. Everything I saw was, "Well, why wasn't that in the game in the first place?" I won't sincerely congratulate them over something that should have been implemented back in development. If these were new endings that weren't a big, "Screw you, fans!" by Bioware a la Refusal ending, then maybe things would be a little different. As it is, EC is a big pile of mediocrity that still has plot holes and does not deserve the Bioware name of the past. Mass Effect 3 doesn't truly deserve that name either, to be honest.

[TheDonk95]

MidnightRaith wrote...

TheDonk95 wrote...

They did a good job on expanding the ending, the only problem is, the ending itself from the beginning was awful...
They should have just written a whole new ending... Too bad their ego and 'artistic intergity' didn't allow them...

Saying they did a good job is rather debatable. Personally, I feel that Bioware did not do anything even remotely impressive. Everything I saw was, "Well, why wasn't that in the game in the first place?" I won't sincerely congratulate them over something that should have been implemented back in development. If these were new endings that weren't a big, "Screw you, fans!" by Bioware a la Refusal ending, then maybe things would be a little different. As it is, EC is a big pile of mediocrity that still has plot holes and does not deserve the Bioware name of the past. Mass Effect 3 doesn't truly deserve that name either, to be honest.

Spoilers


The EC is medicore, yes, but I'm glad that we atleast got this, because I guess this is the best Bioware can provide us at this moment, which is very sad. On expanding the ending that we got I think the EC did it's job OK. It was kinda boring and medicore, but it's something. On expanding the relationship with Liara? Why the hell they didn't make a reunion? Is it that hard to show even a short 1 minute scene of Liara visiting Shepard and the hospital or something like that? I know that's what head canon is for, and it's working, but I really hoped for a reunion, especially with the fact that Liara obviously knows that Shepard survived. But overall, I agree with you. The EC wasn't anything great, it didn't fixed the horrible ending, there are still lots of plot holes, and overall, this isn't the end that this legendary trilogy deserves.

Modifié par TheDonk95, 27 juin 2012 - 07:40 .

[CmdrSlander]

Question: How do you all think Liara would feel about being in a relationship with a very renegade Shepard? I feel that as a character Liara would be more likely to fall for a Paragon Shepard, but I understand that BioWare didn't want to exclude Renegades (and I too have done several Renegade playthroughs with Liara as LI) from Romancing Liara, as this would really have limited the player's options, especially in ME1.

My reasoning for Liara preferring a Paragon Shepard is that she seems to be, especially in ME1, fairly innocent and morally pure. As the story progresses though (LotSB) she does become more morally flexible.

[shepard1038]

MidnightRaith wrote...

TheDonk95 wrote...

They did a good job on expanding the ending, the only problem is, the ending itself from the beginning was awful...
They should have just written a whole new ending... Too bad their ego and 'artistic intergity' didn't allow them...

Saying they did a good job is rather debatable. Personally, I feel that Bioware did not do anything even remotely impressive. Everything I saw was, "Well, why wasn't that in the game in the first place?" I won't sincerely congratulate them over something that should have been implemented back in development. If these were new endings that weren't a big, "Screw you, fans!" by Bioware a la Refusal ending, then maybe things would be a little different. As it is, EC is a big pile of mediocrity that still has plot holes and does not deserve the Bioware name of the past. Mass Effect 3 doesn't truly deserve that name either, to be honest.

1. Are you serious if bioware wanted they couldn't have done nothing and to say that it should have been implemented in development baffles me. Be grateful that were getting something. 

2. The Refusal ending was done because it was asked by the fans.

3. You say that Mass Effect 3 doesn't deserve that name. Yet the consensus from critics and fans is that is a good game. If thats your opinion then fine.

4. Yes the EC has plot holes. But you have to look at the big picture. The relays will eventually be rebuild. The game hints that a Normandy reunion is possible. The Citadels is rebuild, ect...

 

Modifié par shepard1038, 27 juin 2012 - 08:20 .

[Theodoro]

Well, let me just share my own thoughts about the Extended Cut now that I've had the time to think it through.


To be perfectly honest, I was actually rather pleasantly surprised by the DLC. I'm taken aback by the negativity here. And that's coming from somebody who absolutely despised the ending and couldn't even think about it without feeling disappointed and frustrated at what could have been instead.

As far as the Normandy evacuation scene prior to entering the beam is concerned, I'll have to say that I'm agreeing with Han Shot First here. I have no problem with accepting the fact that Harbinger could have had other targets to shoot at while Shepard and Liara said their final goodbye. Yes, it's improbable that Harbinger wouldn't have targeted the Normandy first, but this is a sci-fi epic and I was pleased with just how powerful the scene was amidst the death and destruction all around. It filled a rather massive plot hole and I'm satisfied with how it did so - it was emotional, impacting and personal. And Joker could have been able to bring in the Normandy to Shepard's location through the break of interference. Again, improbable, but I'm willing to accept it because the goodbye with Shepard and Liara was very well-done. Neither were willing to leave one another, and it took a lot of convincing, but at the end they understood what was necessary. I think it was in-character for both and I loved it. Sue me.

Okay, now to the talk with the StarChild. Another point in BioWare and EC's favor: Shepard could actually be Shepard in the final confrontation, ask most of what I would have wanted to ask, as well, not blindly accept what the StarChild is telling him/her without a solid explanation, and you could actually voice your opinion for every single choice prior to actually choosing, and I liked that a lot. Let's just say that I'm satisfied with how the conversation now goes, I'm willing to accept it, because I truly felt I was playing my Shepard when I did so. The only gripe I have so far is that he/she still says 'So, the Illusive Man was right after all', which should have been removed - apart from that, I liked it. And while I still can't see how Synthesis and Control really work, I can live with the explanations that were offered. I can accept them.

I've only tried out Rejection and Destroy, since those are the only two endings I would bother with. I never choose Synthesis or Control for any of my Shepards for reasons I can go on about at length.

Rejection: I absolutely loved the fact that you could deny StarChild's nonsense and say what I personally always felt should have been said. I loved Shepard's dialogue when he/she chose to stand to his/her ideals, beliefs and morals, and I felt extremely satisfied when I chose that option, and I was very surprised to see it included - I literally grinned when I saw the 'I reject all those choices!' dialogue option.

However, what followed after was something I was definitely not pleased with. The fact that you stand by what you yourself believe always results in an inevitable defeat, implying that Shepard has made a huge mistake. In a low EMS scenario, I'd be completely fine with that, but with high EMS I feel that we deserved to have the option to actually win (and I'm willing to accept heavy losses in this scenario), but it still should have been possible for the fleet that you've spent the entire three games slowly building prevail against the Reapers. Those of us who wanted to deny the StarChild deserved more than one cutscene showing Liara's  time capsule, explaining how we failed and how the next cycle ought not to make the same mistakes we did.

Even if Shepard were to die on the Crucible in this particular rejection ending, I would have loved to see how galactic civilization actually wins on its own merits. I wanted to see a 15-minute epilogue like we see with Destroy, Synthesis and Control - not just a 2-minute clip. This was a slap in the face on BioWare's part.

Destroy: Finally, a much more pleasant version of what was previously painted as the worst thing ever. Galactic civlization actually continues, the Relays are not utterly destroyed and there is always the opportunity to rebuild, and the Normandy crew is not stranded on some random planet out there. Joker's no longer a coward who flees the first chance he gets, but he tries until the last moment to find a way to save Shepard. Much more in-character. I liked how this part of Destroy went, and I enjoyed the epilogue slides. They brought a smile to my face and it was great to see that what we did actually mattered. Wrex returned to Tuchanka (which shows that the Relays would be repaired in the future) and the krogan actually get to have the future they always wanted. I loved that! The Stargazer scene still felt incredibly out of place and nonsensical, and as meaningless as it is, I think it actually fit the old ending better, so I have no idea why it's still there. I'm completely ignoring it.

The scene with Normandy's crew in front of the memorial wall is very emotional. It's nice to see that they really cared about you, not left you at the first opportune moment and ran away from the fight as it seemed like in the original ending. And there's something I want to stress as far as Liara is concerned.

If you've watched the Normandy memorial wall scene in all three endings, then you'll notice that Liara physically places Shepard's name on the wall only in Control and Synthesis. In Destroy, she has it in her arms and caresses it, but then smiles and does not put it on the wall - we do not see it happening in the cutscene itself, which makes me thing that it never had.

I just think it speaks volumes for the bond between Shepard and Liara. This emphasizes that even though Shepard's as good as dead in all three endings (as far as the Normandy crew knows), Liara reacts much differently in Destroy, much more optimistic. It shows that she somehow knows that Shepard's still out there, and that they will reunite soon. For that reason I believe that they definitely have. And even though it is not shown (which I would have loved to), I think it's why I am more satisfied with the ending than I thought I would.

And of course, the Shepard takes a breath scene. Destroy was great, in my opinion, until you see that that scene is not explored or expanded upon in the Extended Cut. That definitely sucked. I believe they did so to keep the indoctrination theorists happy or something. Destroy heavily implies that Shepard and Liara will reunite again soon, but I would have wanted to actually see it. It is lamentable that we never get to do so, but with Destroy as it is now, at least it allows for post-ending fan fiction stories to actually fit and function, because galactic civilization is not destroyed and you can make your own headcanon as for what happens after that much easier than before, knowing that it's not as improbable as it was before. Still, it was bad that it wasn't shown to us, even if it was in a few slides like the rest - I would have loved that personally.


So that is what I thought of the EC for those who are interested. It's pretty lengthy, but I wanted to get across the fact that I'm much more optimistic than before and my general thoughts about the EC are surprisingly positive. Even with all the things it felt short on, I have no problem replaying ME1-ME3 now because I know that at least it would be worth it in the end. So, yeah - those are my two cents.

[TheDonk95]

Couldn't have said it better, Theo. Exactly my thoughts.

[shepard1038]

How do i put spoiler tags?

[MidnightRaith]

shepard1038 wrote...

1. Are you serious if bioware wanted they couldn't have done nothing and to say that it should have beenimplemented in development baffles me. Be grateful that were getting something. 

2. The Refusal ending was done because it was asked by the fans.

3. You say that Mass Effect 3 doesn't deserve that name. Yet the consensus from critics and fans is that isa good game. If thats your opinion then fine. 

1. I despise the, "You should be grateful!!1!" line. I am a consumer. I have certain expectations. For a company like Bioware that has done excellent work in the past, those expectations are going to be high and I will hold them to those expectations. When they are not met, I will not be "grateful" to get a fix that should not be necessary. That kind of mindset is the reason the vast majority of gamers are being taken advantage of by asinine anti-piracy attempts, Day 1 DLC, locked disc content, unfinished games and rushed games. ME3 has content that fits two of those things I listed. The EC should have been implemented in development. Everything that was in it makes the endings actually make some kind of sense. The ending is something that should make sense, it's part of the damn plot. When your plot makes no sense, you have failed. I will not congratulate Bioware for not managing to fail now. They were better than that. We are talking about a company that used to have a reputation for great writing.

2. And so much more was asked for by fans. If they wanted to add more to the game, then put in a damn reunion scene, or add something concrete to the breath scene. If you're going to lie to me and add in a whole new ending for the hell of it, then get the guts to do something that doesn't come off as grimdark. No thank you, we already had a grimdark game to start with.

3. I will be hard on this company. I am hard on the majority of the things I love because I don't tend to love crappy things. ME3 has a variety of bugs, the beginning sets no premise for the rest of the plot. The Cerberus coup scene has little redeeming value, Kai Leng is a sad excuse for an antagonist, the asari were nearly ignored, Thane's death was unnecessary, and then the endings. Mass Effect is not by any means an amazing game. Don't throw critic reviews at me, I don't hold much stock in them. The mainstream video game media is horribly corrupt and I don't take them seriously. As for the fans, did you miss all the threads that point out various problems that ME3 has in general? The quality of this game does not match the games that Bioware has released in the past. That is what I mean when I say it does not deserve the Bioware name. I don't know how you can make a case that it does without blatantly ignoring all the various mistakes this game makes in plot and gameplay. It is a good game, Tuchanka and Rannoch carry this game all on their own, but I'm not going to give credit where it isn't due.

EDIT:

4. The big picture. Well, for any other medium the big picture would be enough. However, this is Mass Effect, a series that has created memorable and loved characters that people have grown attached to. In the original ending, Bioware greatly disrespected those characters by stranding them on a deserted planet and doomed them to certain death if they could not be rescued. And a rescue was highly improbable due to the broken relays they stupidly had. That left a very bad taste in my mouth because I my interest in the Reaper plot greatly paled in comparison to my love for the characters, so I am not placated by them barely fixing the big picture. What I wanted more than anything was getting that reunion, something that we were given reason to hope for. Now, I find out that Bioware includes the Refusal ending, but has said that they will not do a reunion even in DLC. Just... whatever guys, I will not be happy with the EC, it did little that I was hoping for. My only hope is that Bioware is lying once again and they will do a reunion eventually. Doesn't that sound great? I hope you guys lie to me again. This company has done a lot to lose my respect and little to earn it back.

Modifié par MidnightRaith, 27 juin 2012 - 08:41 .

[shepard1038]

MidnightRaith wrote...

shepard1038 wrote...

1. Are you serious if bioware wanted they couldn't have done nothing and to say that it should have beenimplemented in development baffles me. Be grateful that were getting something. 

2. The Refusal ending was done because it was asked by the fans.

3. You say that Mass Effect 3 doesn't deserve that name. Yet the consensus from critics and fans is that isa good game. If thats your opinion then fine. 

1. I despise the, "You should be grateful!!1!" line. I am a consumer. I have certain expectations. For a company like Bioware that has done excellent work in the past, those expectations are going to be high and I will hold them to those expectations. When they are not met, I will not be "grateful" to get a fix that should not be necessary. That kind of mindset is the reason the vast majority of gamers are being taken advantage of by asinine anti-piracy attempts, Day 1 DLC, locked disc content, unfinished games and rushed games. ME3 has content that fits two of those things I listed. The EC should have been implemented in development. Everything that was in it makes the endings actually make some kind of sense. The ending is something that should make sense, it's part of the damn plot. When your plot makes no sense, you have failed. I will not congratulate Bioware for not managing to fail now. They were better than that. We are talking about a company that used to have a reputation for great writing.

2. And so much more was asked for by fans. If they wanted to add more to the game, then put in a damn reunion scene, or add something concrete to the breath scene. If you're going to lie to me and add in a whole new ending for the hell of it, then get the guts to do something that doesn't come off as grimdark. No thank you, we already had a grimdark game to start with.

3. I will be hard on this company. I am hard on the majority of the things I love because I don't tend to love crappy things. ME3 has a variety of bugs, the beginning sets no premise for the rest of the plot. The Cerberus coup scene has little redeeming value, Kai Leng is a sad excuse for an antagonist, the asari were nearly ignored, Thane's death was unnecessary, and then the endings. Mass Effect is not by any means an amazing game. Don't throw critic reviews at me, I don't hold much stock in them. The mainstream video game media is horribly corrupt and I don't take them seriously. As for the fans, did you miss all the threads that point out various problems that ME3 has in general? The quality of this game does not match the games that Bioware has released in the past. That is what I mean when I say it does not deserve the Bioware name. I don't know how you can make a case that it does without blatantly ignoring all the various mistakes this game makes in plot and gameplay. It is a good game, Tuchanka and Rannoch carry this game all on their own, but I'm not going to give credit where it isn't due.

1. Bioware isn't entitled to release the EC. They could have not released the EC if they wanted to.

2. Yet the Refusal ending was asked by fans.

3. Im sorry thats an opinion not fact. Some people like Mass Effect some not. Did you also miss the threads where the people said that Me3 is good. Please lets not discuss if Me3 is good or not. Because it is opinion
and i don't want to go off topic.

4. A Reunion is hinted at the Game to be possible. Im sorry that the EC did not meet your expectations.

Modifié par shepard1038, 27 juin 2012 - 08:45 .

[TheDonk95]

Spoilers


The fact that there was no reunion scene is really a tremedous disappointment for me, although it is 'headcanonable', I really wanted to see Liara and Shepard reunite... It could've been so beautiful.
I am also very sad that they did not expand on the 'Shepard lives' ending. Just like Aristobulu, I also really thought that they will expand on this, and that they would be really stupid if they don't. Again, I can't see a good reason why not to expand on that scene. Damn it Bioware...

[Aristobulus500]

Theodoro wrote...

Well, let me just share my own thoughts about the Extended Cut now that I've had the time to think it through.

I basically agree completely with everything you said here, it's basically all of my thoughts. To that end, I'm going to save myself some trouble and copy and paste a post I made over on SA after I had completed Destroy and Rejection, with my thoughts - in a noticeably less organized and thought out manner, mine is more stream of consciousness.

Anyway, my thoughts.

First of all, I only played through Rejection and Destroy. I've never been interested in Synthesis and Control, and the Star Child didn't make them sound any more appealing this time through either.

That said - overall, I'm pleasantly surprised with the changes. The EC is far from perfect, and has some glaring issues I'll cover, but first I just want to cover things in order of how I viewed them.

So, the run to the beam. What happens here is pretty much just a scene that should've always been in the game - and in fact this is a common trend among the changes, that it's scenes that really should've been there originally - but anyway.

Liara/Garrus get bowled over by a truck. Surprising to me, they actually looked torn the **** up. Garrus looks as bad as Shepard did, and Liara is straight bleeding from her head and crest. Morbid note, but she actually was bleeding Asari purple.

So Shepard calls an evac...and I actually really liked how this played out. Liara actually seemed extremely reluctant to leave Shepard, and there's some pretty moving interactions between her/Shepard, pretty much how it should be. This scene was not unexpected, I just figured they'd do it poorly and Liara would be slightly scratched and not at all offer any arguments to leaving Shepard, and also that Shepard wouldn't have any problems with leaving her behind - but really, they both really do act like they don't want to leave, but Shepard just feels it's the safer choice for Liara/Garrus.

Could've used some dialogue from Garrus there, but well, this is another common trend. I have something good and something bad to say about every change they did - it's all very half and half, half surprisingly good, half just misses out. Here they missed out on having the other squadmember say anything.

I do like that it's actually personalized for if you took your LI along, too much of the game, especially with Liara, did not recognize the romance.

So, moving on...same old same old with TIM.

My first choice was Rejection - and that's because I've always said this is what I wanted to do. I never liked the Starchild's 3 choices. And to their credit - Shepard actually sounds like Shepard here. He says the stuff you'd expect him to say, about standing for free will and all that.

And then, in what is probably a nod to the IT, the Starchild disperses, using Harbingers voice. Now, I'm not going to go so far as to say the IT is entirely right, because I think the way the other endings play out kindof messes with the IT, but I do think it shows that the Starchild isn't who he says he is, and really isn't someone you can completely trust, and has ulterior motives. That he's actually the Reapers/Harbinger trying to bargain with Shepard, basically.

And, then it uses Liara's Beacon. Hey! This is another scene that everyone expected to already be in the game the first time they played it. It plays out exactly as it should and as you'd expect.

So, that's the good of rejection. The bad? It's only half what it should be. As it is, Rejection feels like it's Hudson/Walters smarming at the fans "So you don't like my starchild, well **** you the galaxy loses see how you like it!"

The galaxy losing against the Reapers when you choose destroy is not something I inherently disagree with - I just think it should've depended on EMS here. If you have low EMS, then it played out fine, but if you have high EMS, the galaxy forces should've actually won against the Reapers. They could've extended this as well, to where depending on how high your EMS is, Shepard might be shown surviving this, or dying, even in a galactic victory against the Reapers. That same thought process can extend to other races/characters as is appropriate.

There's just lots of possibility for variety in Rejection, based on EMS, that didn't happen and should've. Rejection never should've been just a single, "this always happens" ending, *either* in the galaxy always winning or the galaxy always winning. It being static is the problem.

Alright, so that's Rejection...the meat of this - Destroy.

To my surprise, they actually didn't go out of their way to make Destroy into a worse ending, I thought they would. They actually cleaned it up to be a very triumphant ending. Destroy, well, it mostly keeps the tone I always wanted in the ME3 ending - it's triumphant, but bittersweet showing losses. It feels right, mostly.

The Relays/Citadel are talked about, but said they can be rebuilt. Galactic society can continue on - and more to the point, they actually changed the scenes of the relays being destroyed to ones where they are just kinda turning off. It's not as complete destruction as it was originally, so the idea that they can be repaired is reasonable. Doesn't break suspension of disbelief, basically.

So they did a good job here showing that there are losses, the galaxy is hurt after the war, but it can continue. It's possible to imagine more stories in the same galaxy and setting that's recognizably ME after this. And that's a huge achievement.

They even showed the other races actually escaping the Sol system, pretty much most of the small details were covered.

And on the note of the other races, I really liked that they included scenes of the other races watching the Reapers collapse on their own home worlds - the Asari on Thessia and the Krogan on Tuchanka. It did a lot to make the tone upbeat and triumphant.

Then there were the slides of the ME2 characters - slides showing up somewhere was expected, but I thought these were nice slides for what they were. Honestly, Zaeed had the best slide - reclining on a chair drinking beers? Hell yeah, Zaeed is baller as ****.

Now, Joker. I thought they wouldn't be able to do this either, but I thought they did a good job turning him around from a coward as he was originally portrayed - he actually seems like he is distraught, and doesn't want to leave Shepard behind when he's ordered to do so - and more than this, in the scene where he's trying to escape the blast with the Normandy - his animations are different! If you compare it to the original set - in the original, he's panicking, very frantic, and he looks backwards (at what?). In this, he seems more visibly distraught, like he can't focus, and he's not as precise with the controls as he normally is - it really seems like he's upset over Shepard. I thought this was a nice touch.

And finally - Liara/Shepard and these final scenes. First of all, a question - how does this play out if you didn't romance Liara? It can drastically alter my approval of these scenes, but I'm going to write this post assuming it actually recognizes a romance and plays out differently if you didn't romance her. So just let me know if it actually isn't different at all, and I can change my line of thinking here.

Anyway, I thought the scene of Liara placing Shepard's plaque on the wall - it's actually a pretty moving scene. She's standing in the center, fittingly the one placing it, and she really does seem broken up over Shepard being dead - yet at the same time appreciative of the victory.

A really nice touch here is Liara's reaction - especially between Destroy and Control/Synthesis. In Control/Synthesis, Liara is pretty much entirely broken up over Shepard being dead - and of course, we know that Shepard actually is dead for a fact.

Now...in the Destroy ending, she doesn't actually place the plaque on the wall. She caresses it a bit, seems lost in thought, and is noticeably more hopeful and upbeat than she is in the other endings - and we as the audience know that this ending actually differs in that Shepard can live.

I think this is also meant to back that up - Liara can sense that Shepard is still alive, so she doesn't commit to his death by placing his plaque on the wall, and is also why she's not as distraught as she is in the other endings.

Another nice touch to fit into continuity is that they show this memorial scene happens before they leave the planet - before any of them would actually have a chance to reunite with Shepard, even if he's alive.

Which brings me to the last point - that "Shepard takes a breath" scene that is the entire reason everyone said Destroy was the best ending originally. Completely unchanged. This is just garbage. For all the good changes they made, leaving this in, without expanding on it, without doing anything with it, is just awful.

They really should've expanded on that "Shepard lives" scenario. Even if it's just slides of him reuniting with the Normandy/his LI and/or living in peace down the line. Something.

It just feels like it cuts off too soon. For all the extending and adding on to the ending they did, smoothing over initial problems, keeping the tone upbeat...even catching small details in like making Joker actually seem to care about Shepard, not just Shepard's LI caring....and showing the other races and all, missing this point is just weird.

Oh, and the Stargazer scenes. Still just as nonsensical as always. On a really strange note, in the Rejection ending the Stargazer are both Asari. The ****? Didn't the ending here just get done telling me everyone in the galaxy died to the Reapers?

Whatever. **** the Stargazer scenes just ignore them as you always did.

So that's my thoughts. Just - they got a lot right I really didn't expect them to, and completely missed other things. Overall, I approve of the EC though, even with the flaws. I can deal with this ending, it allows the IP to still exist, and allows the possibility of a happy ending for Shepard and his crew.

I have preferences about what more I'd like to see, sure, but what this gives me is enough to not feel burning hatred when I think about the end. It allows the ending I want even if it doesn't actually show it to me.

[kumquats]

CmdrSlander wrote...
My reasoning for Liara preferring a Paragon Shepard is that she seems to be, especially in ME1, fairly innocent and morally pure. As the story progresses though (LotSB) she does become more morally flexible.

I don't know. Maybe you can tell me what my Renegade did in ME1, that was so bad.

(It's a TRAP)

[MidnightRaith]

shepard1038 wrote...

1. Bioware isn't entitled to release the EC. They could have not released the EC if they wanted to.

2. Yet the Refusal ending was asked by fans.

3. Im sorry thats an opinion not fact. Some people like Mass Effect some not. Did you also miss the threads where the people said that Me3 is good. Please lets not discuss if Me3 is good or not. Because it is opinion
and i don't want to go off topic.

4. A Reunion is hinted at the Game to be possible. Im sorry that the EC did not meet your expectations.

1. Who the heck ever said they were? They aren't entitled to fix the endings, but they would have lost a lot of the fanbase. However, neither am I forced to be grateful to them. I never will be for something that should have already been in the game.

2. Another thing I did not dispute. What are you trying to say here? I'm saying that they could have done more to make this more liked by a variety of fans.

3. Another thing I did not say. You keep putting words in my mouth. Little rule on writing here: Unless someone specifically states that they are about to write a fact, everything they write is opinion. Not only does that cut down on redundancy, it also makes whatever you're writing into a better piece. I keep this in mind when I write papers and the like and has become habit. Also, the EC is off topic. You don't get to dictate the flow of conversation just because it makes you uncomfortable. It's a two way street here. If you want to stay on topic, then let's only talk about how the EC affects Liara, but I'll bet that not everyone wants to do that. Many people here do not leave this thread and presumably enjoy talking about what the rest of the board posts about with the people here specifically.

4. No, it did not. A reunion scene did not need to be implied. Honestly, it's like some people here have forgotten a lot of the problems they had with the endings to begin with. Largely, the lack of closure and the speculation to begin with. Bioware is absolutely set on having us speculate for some asinine reason. You know what? Sometimes, people don't want to speculate. They want to definitively watch a canon scene in the medium. The fact that they don't give us even a slide showing the LI at the ruins of the Citadel comes off as lazy, in my opinion.

Modifié par MidnightRaith, 27 juin 2012 - 09:04 .

[rubynorman]

Just came back from my friend's house. There are some plot holes but I think I'm pretty satisfied with the EC.

Spoiler (highlight)

spoiler
This scene is ... Shepard. I ... I am yours.

spoiler
Liara smiled and she didn't put Shep's name on the memorial wall. I think she knows my Shep lives. 

Modifié par rubynorman, 27 juin 2012 - 10:01 .