56469 réponses à ce sujet

[Robhuzz]

Rikketik wrote...

GreenFlag wrote...

I love her

*Snip*

I don't know if the other LI's have the same look on their face, but it worked so well for Liara. Just looking into those big, blue eyes... They (BioWare) must have done that on purpose.

Beautiful scene.

Dem eyes have always been captivating, it'd be a shame to not do something with them. They did good on the Liara aspect of the EC:D

[TMA LIVE]

As much as that scene makes no sense, I'm glad they allowed that final moment with your LI.

[Han Shot First]

TMA LIVE wrote...

As much as that scene makes no sense, I'm glad they allowed that final moment with your LI.

I think it makes *some* sense, but could probably have been better handled.

In amphibious assaults for example landing craft or amtracs may be evacuating wounded while the beachhead is still very much contested, and the craft under fire. Of course part of what makes this possible is the safety in numbers aspect, with the enemy destroying some landing craft but not able to get all of them. So with that in mind, I think the evac scene probably would have worked better if there had been other frigates and fighters making a run against Harbinger as a distraction for the ground force, but the evac itself is not necessarily unrealistic.

But even so I think I can accept as plausible that Harbinger doesn't fire at the Normandy because he has more immediate concerns with tanks, gunships and troops rapidly closing on the beam, and the Normandy appeared to be just evacuating wounded at the time rather than assisting directly in the push.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 27 juin 2012 - 08:14 .

[Alexius]

Han Shot First wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

As much as that scene makes no sense, I'm glad they allowed that final moment with your LI.

I think it makes *some* sense, but could probably have been better handed.

In amphibious assaults for example landing craft or amtracs may be evacuating wounded while the beachhead is still very much contested, and the craft under fire. Of course part of what makes this possible is the safety in numbers aspect, with the enemy destroying some landing craft but not able to get all of them. So with that in mind, I think the evac scene probably would have worked better if there had been other frigates and fighters making a run against Harbinger as a distraction for the ground force.

But even so I think I can accept as plausible that Harbinger doesn't fire at the Normandy because he has more immediate concerns with tanks, gunships and troops rapidly closing on the beam, and the Normandy appeared to be just evacuating wounded at the time rather than assisting directly in the push.

I agree. It's not completely out of place. Also... I think it makes a lot more sense if you took your LI with you. I replayed the whole section because I didn't take Liara the first time. I had to say goodbye to Javik. ¬¬

Calling the Normandy for evac perhaps isn't great tactics, but it's also true that the Normandy isn't really engaging in combat. Someone in the story subforum suggested that Harbinger didn't shoot the ship because the Normandy still has the Reaper IFF.

Modifié par AlexiusDAlex, 27 juin 2012 - 08:29 .

[DOsquareZER]

Ha saying goodbye to javik.
Howd that go lol was there a sentimental palm to face followed by a sappy but deeply touching promise that he could have your fish if you died?

[adneate]

frudi wrote...
Yes, I know, I'm nitpicking... I'm not trying to diminish the impact of the evac scene, I loved Liara's part in it as much as everyone else here; it just seems to me clear giveaways that the scene was duct-taped on to fill one plot hole and ended up introducing several new ones.

It sorta reminds me of when Galactica rammed the Colony at the end of BSG, I mean the logic for why they were doing this was hard to follow but goddamn did it feel good. I'm quite willing to leave logic behind if the feeling is good enough. That scene is so powerful I'm willing to overlook the problems with logic.

Though I mean they did change the assault from just a few guys to an all out torrent of soldiers and vehicles swarming Harbringer, so maybe it was more focused on stopping everyone and everything from getting into the beam not the frigate floating near by. I don't find it worth dwelling on.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Robhuzz wrote...

Rikketik wrote...

GreenFlag wrote...

I love her

*Snip*

I don't know if the other LI's have the same look on their face, but it worked so well for Liara. Just looking into those big, blue eyes... They (BioWare) must have done that on purpose.

Beautiful scene.

Dem eyes have always been captivating, it'd be a shame to not do something with them. They did good on the Liara aspect of the EC:D

They sure did.

Speaking of the ending in general, looking at all the possible LIs Shepard can think of when making their choice, Liara is the only one I felt they managed to do justice. Some of the other just look creepy.

But Liara...
http://desmond.image...png&res=landing

Modifié par Lizardviking, 27 juin 2012 - 08:33 .

[Robhuzz]

AlexiusDAlex wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

As much as that scene makes no sense, I'm glad they allowed that final moment with your LI.

I think it makes *some* sense, but could probably have been better handed.

In amphibious assaults for example landing craft or amtracs may be evacuating wounded while the beachhead is still very much contested, and the craft under fire. Of course part of what makes this possible is the safety in numbers aspect, with the enemy destroying some landing craft but not able to get all of them. So with that in mind, I think the evac scene probably would have worked better if there had been other frigates and fighters making a run against Harbinger as a distraction for the ground force.

But even so I think I can accept as plausible that Harbinger doesn't fire at the Normandy because he has more immediate concerns with tanks, gunships and troops rapidly closing on the beam, and the Normandy appeared to be just evacuating wounded at the time rather than assisting directly in the push.

I agree. It's not completely out of place. Also... I think it makes a lot more sense if you took your LI with you. I replayed the whole section because I didn't take Liara the first time. I had to say goodbye to Javik. ¬¬

Calling the Normandy for evac perhaps isn't great tactics, but it's also true that the Normandy isn't really engaging in combat. Someone in the story subforum suggested that Harbinger didn't shoot the ship because the Normandy still has the Reaper IFF.

I disagree with the point that it actually makes sense. After ME2 and Arrival, Harbinger sees Shepard as the most important enemy. When the Normany shows up, he knows how important it and its crew are to Shepard, what role they played in the destruction of Sovereign, the Collectors, the Alpha relay.... There is no way he wouldn't fire at them especially considering he seems to be able to shoot loads of beams at the same time.

I loved the scene and it was very emotional and beautiful but I still do not think it makes sense and it really feels like they pasted that on to cover up a plot hole.

[Han Shot First]

frudi wrote...

And yet, what seems like 15 minutes later, she walks of the Normandy on Gilligan's planet like nothing even happened to her and in a sparkling clean suit of armor .

The miracles of medigel!

The scene would probably have been better if she were limping or reappared with a bandage around her crest at least, but I can live with it.

Yes, I know, I'm nitpicking... I'm not trying to diminish the impact of the evac scene, I loved Liara's part in it as much as everyone else here; it just seems to me clear giveaways that the scene was duct-taped on to fill one plot hole and ended up introducing several new ones.

You can actually still hear the deep booms of the impacts of Harbingers shots during that whole sequence. He is still knocking out tanks and such, the action just occurs off screen.  The volume of the impacts also gets turned down a couple notches in prepartion for the dialogue.

I'm sure there must be a TV trope category that it falls into.  "Wait...they're about to say something important! Hold your fire men!"

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Han Shot First wrote...

Yes, I know, I'm nitpicking... I'm not trying to diminish the impact of the evac scene, I loved Liara's part in it as much as everyone else here; it just seems to me clear giveaways that the scene was duct-taped on to fill one plot hole and ended up introducing several new ones.

You can actually still hear the deep booms of the impacts of Harbingers shots during that whole sequence. He is still knocking out tanks and such, the action just occurs off screen.  The volume of the impacts also gets turned down a couple notches in prepartion for the dialogue.

I'm sure there must be a TV trope category that it falls into.  "Wait...they're about to say something important! Hold your fire men!"

http://tvtropes.org/...ngIsAFreeAction?

As said by Robhuzz. Scene is great but it felt silly from a logical POV.

[Han Shot First]

I disagree with the point that it actually makes sense. After ME2 and Arrival, Harbinger sees Shepard as the most important enemy. When the Normany shows up, he knows how important it and its crew are to Shepard, what role they played in the destruction of Sovereign, the Collectors, the Alpha relay.... There is no way he wouldn't fire at them especially considering he seems to be able to shoot loads of beams at the same time.

If really depends on how you look at it. Shepard has more personal significance to Harbinger because he has foiled a couple of their plots, but in terms of raw military necessity the greater threat at the moment are the troops who are near the beam. Anyone who gets aboard the Citadel can potentially foil the Reapers' plans, as they apparently haven't garrisoned it. The only opponent Anderson and Shepard ever meet aboard the Citadel is TIM.

There is also the possibility that the events of the Reaper war had also gotten Anderson the same level of recognition from the Reapers as they gave Shepard. He had been leading a fairly effective resistance movement on Earth for months, and had been a key player in Shepard unravelling Sovereign's plot. If they knew he was among the ground troops attacking the beam it could also account for Harbinger's single-minded focus on the ground team.

Ha saying goodbye to javik.
Howd that go lol was there a sentimental palm to face followed by a sappy but deeply touching promise that he could have your fish if you died?

The goodbye with Javik actually worked out a little weird for me, because I always give him the Echo Shard. As much as I like the character I always have him interact with the Echo Shard because it triggers that excellent conversation about his indoctrinated squadmates, and also has Javik say one of my favorite quotes in the series. "War is an atrocity committed in the name of survival."

Since he was planning to kill himself over the graves of his men, Shepard's comment about 'needing to know someone survives this' was a bit odd. I think that scene probably works better with Javik if he hasn't interacted with the Echo Shard.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 27 juin 2012 - 09:05 .

[Wulfram]

I think a big problem with the evac scene is that we know it was put in to fix the Normandy crash issue. If we were coming at it "fresh" it probably wouldn't seem too off, because these sorts of silly things tend to happen all the time in fiction.


(A scene most people on this thread probably won't see much)

[shepard1038]

Han Shot First wrote...

I disagree with the point that it actually makes sense. After ME2 and Arrival, Harbinger sees Shepard as the most important enemy. When the Normany shows up, he knows how important it and its crew are to Shepard, what role they played in the destruction of Sovereign, the Collectors, the Alpha relay.... There is no way he wouldn't fire at them especially considering he seems to be able to shoot loads of beams at the same time.

If really depends on how you look at it. Shepard has more personal significance to Harbinger because he has foiled a couple of their plots, but in terms of raw military necessity the greater threat at the moment are the troops who are near the beam. Anyone who gets aboard the Citadel can potentially foil the Reapers' plans, as they apparently haven't garrisoned it. The only opponent Anderson and Shepard ever meet aboard the Citadel is TIM.

There is also the possibility that the events of the Reaper war had also gotten Anderson the same level of recognition from the Reapers as they gave Shepard. He had been leading a fairly effective resistance movement on Earth for months, and had been a key player in Shepard unravelling Sovereign's plot. If they knew he was among the ground troops attacking the beam it could also account for Harbinger's single-minded focus on the ground team.

I would have to agree with @Han Shot First. All it takes is one troop to get to the beam to win the war. So Harbinger doesn't have the luxury of turning his eyes off the troops running. The troops running at the beam are moreimportant at the moment than the Normandy.

Modifié par shepard1038, 27 juin 2012 - 09:22 .

[Han Shot First]

(A scene most people on this thread probably won't see much)

How does Liara end up in that scene? I'm guessing it has something to do with another character being romanced, as Ashley showed up instead of Liara in both the run where Javik and Vega were on the beam rush, and the one where it was Liara and Garrus. (both were replays of the same career with Liara as an LI)

[Wulfram]

Han Shot First wrote...

(A scene most people on this thread probably won't see much)

How does Liara end up in that scene? I'm guessing it has something to do with another character being romanced, as Ashley showed up instead of Liara in both the run where Javik and Vega were on the beam rush, and the one where it was Liara and Garrus. (both were replays of the same career with Liara as an LI)

I had Garrus and Kaidan with me on the beam rush.  Romancing Garrus instead of Liara for once.

[TheDonk95]

Han Shot First wrote...

(A scene most people on this thread probably won't see much)

How does Liara end up in that scene? I'm guessing it has something to do with another character being romanced, as Ashley showed up instead of Liara in both the run where Javik and Vega were on the beam rush, and the one where it was Liara and Garrus. (both were replays of the same career with Liara as an LI)

Yes, if Liara isn't the romanced character, there is a chance that she will be the one who tells Joker that they must go; a romanced Liara would never do that.

[shepard1038]

One of the things i liked about the EC is that my entire squadmates of Mass Effect 3 survive.
Before the EC it was your Li and the person you talked most to. And i wanted Garrus to survive but i
also wanted Javik to survive but what about Tali or the VS.

[lillitheris]

The Normandy scene makes no sense. It’s equivalent to ‘it’s a dream’. That’s all it is…It cannot make sense. There is no way whatsoever that it could in any way be even remotely plausible. Just don’t think about it too hard

If you want a more logical approach, I’m going to shamelessly claim that “Unity” does the best job.

Agree/disagree?

[Wulfram]

I think I'll just head canon the scene to be Shepard leaving Liara behind some sort of cover, rather than putting her onto the Normandy.

[Yuqi]

Who else here chose Control?

(It might just be me, but I swear the English Male V.A shows subtle favortisim towards Tali. Which peeved me because the Italian version actor shows favortisim with Liara.)

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Yuqi wrote...

Who else here chose Control?

(It might just be me, but I swear the English Male V.A shows subtle favortisim towards Tali. Which peeved me because the Italian version actor shows favortisim with Liara.)

I did.

And what was wrong with Mark Meer's preformance during the evac scene? I thought he was pretty great. Have not heard the one with Tali, so maybe he does a better preformance there. Still thinks he does a good job in the Liara version.

[Aristobulus500]

I can not believe how many of you, even here in the Liara thread, not just people out there in the forsaken wasteland of the rest of the hostile BSN and elsewhere - are absolutely nitpicking the hell out of the beam run scene.

These issues - how could the Normandy land, how come they didn't get blasted by Harbinger - are incredibly pointless. You want to know why? Because ME is a character driven story - and this moment, this bit between Liara/Shepard - it's about them. It's not about the technicalities of the Normandy, it's not about Harbinger, it's not about the rest of the troops running towards the beam - it is solely about Liara/Shepard.

It is a huge personal, intimate final moment for them, encapsulating the finale of their romance. It is just more in depth character development for them and their romance - it is a look at just how deep their love is for eachother - how could you want to give up the chance to have Shepard/Liara embrace for the final time, Liara staring into Shepard's eyes - I can not get over that look she's giving to Shepard - a pleading look really full of love - and their final declarations of love, before they finally part - Liara still reaching out to Shepard.

The rest simply doesn't matter - the shuttle is there, Harbinger doesn't blast them - so that this scene can exist. Nothing about this breaks canon so it doesn't matter. It's not like they literally teleported to Thessia to have the scene, they just didn't get blasted.

Remember this - Mass Effect is soft sci fi. This means it is not about the technology. The tech is built up well, but it exists purely to help tell the story and allow the growth and development of the characters - it exists purely to allow moments like that to happen, and it does so well.

You can hand wave away your own reasons for how they had time for an evac, how Harbinger was distracted and couldn't take time to shoot them, it really, truly could not possibly matter less. Because the large scale, and technical questions like that, have never been the strength or focus of ME. That is for hard sci fi.

ME's technical aspects constantly are twisted and broken for the sake of having more interesting scenes, more character development, and that's just the nature of soft sci fi. If you are that bugged by the why of technicalities, you should look up harder sci fi.

Really. That's not the point of soft sci fi - think about it, if these nitpicks were actually answered, the strength of this moment between Liara/Shep would be lost. You'd either not be able to have it at all - instead Shepard would just have to leave ****ing lying in the dirt without having time to even give her a glance back - real ****in' romantic Commander - or you'd have to spend time having some quarian walk up and say "Oh by the way commander we have some troops distracting Harbinger so you and Liara can talk, and also here's the technics on why this shuttle is here" and it's just - it's not needed.

Stop nitpicking. There are serious issues with the plot and characters that are actually appropriate to criticize, because that's the point and strength of ME. This is not.

[lillitheris]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

I can not believe how many of you, even here in the Liara thread, not just people out there in the forsaken wasteland of the rest of the hostile BSN and elsewhere - are absolutely nitpicking the hell out of the beam run scene.

These issues - how could the Normandy land, how come they didn't get blasted by Harbinger - are incredibly pointless.

Incorrect.

I’m glad they have no significance for you, though.


Edit: dammit, I gotta go stop going around topless. Here’s an apropos image:


http://mallyxable.de...Alive-305223840

Modifié par lillitheris, 27 juin 2012 - 09:50 .