56469 réponses à ce sujet

[2lame4fame]

shepard1038 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I disagree with the point that it actually makes sense. After ME2 and Arrival, Harbinger sees Shepard as the most important enemy. When the Normany shows up, he knows how important it and its crew are to Shepard, what role they played in the destruction of Sovereign, the Collectors, the Alpha relay.... There is no way he wouldn't fire at them especially considering he seems to be able to shoot loads of beams at the same time.

If really depends on how you look at it. Shepard has more personal significance to Harbinger because he has foiled a couple of their plots, but in terms of raw military necessity the greater threat at the moment are the troops who are near the beam. Anyone who gets aboard the Citadel can potentially foil the Reapers' plans, as they apparently haven't garrisoned it. The only opponent Anderson and Shepard ever meet aboard the Citadel is TIM.

There is also the possibility that the events of the Reaper war had also gotten Anderson the same level of recognition from the Reapers as they gave Shepard. He had been leading a fairly effective resistance movement on Earth for months, and had been a key player in Shepard unravelling Sovereign's plot. If they knew he was among the ground troops attacking the beam it could also account for Harbinger's single-minded focus on the ground team.

I would have to agree with @Han Shot First. All it takes is one troop to get to the beam to win the war. So Harbinger doesn't have the luxury of turning his eyes off the troops running. The troops running at the beam are moreimportant at the moment than the Normandy.

liara was my li but there where garrus in my end

[Aristobulus500]

lillitheris wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

I can not believe how many of you, even here in the Liara thread, not just people out there in the forsaken wasteland of the rest of the hostile BSN and elsewhere - are absolutely nitpicking the hell out of the beam run scene.

These issues - how could the Normandy land, how come they didn't get blasted by Harbinger - are incredibly pointless.

Incorrect.

I’m glad they have no significance for you, though.

I'm not incorrect. You seriously need to look up the differences between hard and soft sci fi.

[lillitheris]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

I can not believe how many of you, even here in the Liara thread, not just people out there in the forsaken wasteland of the rest of the hostile BSN and elsewhere - are absolutely nitpicking the hell out of the beam run scene.

These issues - how could the Normandy land, how come they didn't get blasted by Harbinger - are incredibly pointless.

Incorrect.

I’m glad they have no significance for you, though.

I'm not incorrect.

I refer you to my earlier statement. If you’re happy with plot holes, more power to you. How about you ignore the complaints about it instead, since you have practice? It’s not even like there’s a particularly vicious debate going on.

Now, I suggest you go for a deep breath scene, and come back rejuvenated.

[Theodoro]

I agree with everything Aristobulus said. What would you rather have? A poignant final goodbye with Liara - a powerful and emotional exchange right in the middle of a war zone, speaking volumes for the bond between them and allowing for a heartfelt moment or a scenario in which everyone you bring along with you on the run to the beam dies? Because that makes no sense from a gameplay perspective because you would always bring those who you don't want to die with you in the end, and you won't be able to have those who you really want at your side. I honestly can't see how they could have made your crew members actually survive the odds placed against them differently.

And having the Normandy being the way to safety is also a much more personal touch than just a random vehicle getting them out of the way.

Modifié par Theodoro, 27 juin 2012 - 09:57 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

frudi wrote...

It would have been possible to have a powerful scene with Liara while not introducing a bunch of new plot holes. She could have been left behind in some relatively safe cover, the other squadmate covering her until she could be safely extracted. Or the squadmates could have gotten physically separated from Shepard somehow, with Liara and Shepard then saying goodbye over the comm while only able to see each other at a distance over the battlefield. Or who knows how many more options which don't break suspension of disbelief as much as Normandy playing peek-a-boo with Harbinger right under his nose.

I wonder if they could have done it with simply having  shuttles land to drop reinforcements and pick up wounded, and have one of them be the one to pick her op instead of the Normandy.

Would make more sense, and be more justified for why Harbinger does not shoot that one specific shuttle.

[Aristobulus500]

Hahahahaha are you serious? You want to turn what was a really powerful moment with visuals like this



Into a talk over the radio. Great. Yeah that's real romantic. Much better, you're totally right.

[Aristobulus500]

frudi wrote...

@Aristobulus: just because you can't imagine it, doesn't mean an equally powerful scene cannot be portrayed in different circumstances.

Maybe, but a radio talk sure as hell ain't it.

[Akernis]

Please, calm down Aristobulus, I can see where you are coming from but there is no need to become agressive.

Many, most of us I think, utterly love the evac scene, it is one of my favourite scenes in the game and absolutely my favourite scene in the EC (followed by the not-quite-putting-the-plaque-on-the-wall scene) as I said if that had been the only scene in the EC I would still have declared it a success.

But despite that there can still be things that make little sense, or could have been improved, I can pesonally ignore everything about that scene that might not be logical since it was such a fantastic and emotionel one and I really loved it. I prefer to have it the way it is and would not have changed it for any alternatives I can think of, others might have other preferences or simply like to talk about it.

We normanlly nitpick over all scenes with Liara, from her not acknowledging the romance in the timecapsule scene or Shepard not comforting her after Thessia to the romance lock-in at the datescene etc, that does not make the scenes any less wonderful or poignant for that.

Modifié par Akernis, 27 juin 2012 - 10:20 .

[Erenbe]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Hahahahaha are you serious? You want to turn what was a really powerful moment with visuals like this

*snippic*

Into a talk over the radio. Great. Yeah that's real romantic. Much better, you're totally right.

Ever thought of the possibility that they might be able to give us something equally powerful with less inconsistencies? Just because Bioware waved the Liara flag and gave us a powerful scene....and it is powerful...doesn't mean that everyone can simply ignore everything else.

[Aristobulus500]

Erenbe wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Hahahahaha are you serious? You want to turn what was a really powerful moment with visuals like this

*snippic*

Into a talk over the radio. Great. Yeah that's real romantic. Much better, you're totally right.

Ever thought of the possibility that they might be able to give us something equally powerful with less inconsistencies? Just because Bioware waved the Liara flag and gave us a powerful scene....and it is powerful...doesn't mean that everyone can simply ignore everything else.

You're more than welcome to try to suggest what would be an equally powerful scene with less consistencies. But so far I don't see people asking for that, I see people asking for Shepard to leave Liara lying face down in the dirt. I see people asking for Shepard to talk to her over a an impersonal comm like he uses to talk to Hackett. I don't see anything reasonable that would actually provide as powerful a scene as we got, just scenes that get hung up in answering nitpicky technical details that are completely irrelevant to a soft sci fi like ME.

Honestly, if you think "How can the Normandy land" matters in the slightest tiny bit then ME is not for you. Soft sci fi is not a genre that concerns itself with logical technicalities, hard sci fi is.

That's a serious suggestion you should take to heart - you might honestly find something you like more than ME, if you're interested in the hows and whys of the technology. Because that is the point of hard sci fi. Hard sci fi is about exploring futuristic concepts in as realistic a concept as possible, and sticks to reality and real science as hard as it can. Soft sci fi breaks concepts and physics all the time, for the sake of a story, so if you can't handle physics being twisted or broken for the sake of a story like that, you would just honestly prefer hard sci fi, because it's going to happen in soft sci fi.

[Aristobulus500]

frudi wrote...

The point is, the newly introduced plot-holes could easily have been avoided without sacrificing the impact of the scene.

The thing is, this doesn't seem to be the case. I haven't seen a single suggestion that would fix the inconsistencies without sacrificing the emotion and power of the scene.

[lillitheris]

Theodoro wrote...

What would you rather have?

How is this an either-or?

There’s nothing that’ll fix all the ‘inconsistencies’, but that shouldn’t prevent anyone from complaining about them…

Modifié par lillitheris, 27 juin 2012 - 10:32 .

[lillitheris]

And this terrible viciousness. You should be ashamed, Aristobulus.

I’m just going to stick you in my ignore script and see if you calm down in a day or two.

[Erenbe]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Erenbe wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Hahahahaha are you serious? You want to turn what was a really powerful moment with visuals like this

*snippic*

Into a talk over the radio. Great. Yeah that's real romantic. Much better, you're totally right.

Ever thought of the possibility that they might be able to give us something equally powerful with less inconsistencies? Just because Bioware waved the Liara flag and gave us a powerful scene....and it is powerful...doesn't mean that everyone can simply ignore everything else.

You're more than welcome to try to suggest what would be an equally powerful scene with less consistencies. But so far I don't see people asking for that, I see people asking for Shepard to leave Liara lying face down in the dirt. I see people asking for Shepard to talk to her over a an impersonal comm like he uses to talk to Hackett. I don't see anything reasonable that would actually provide as powerful a scene as we got, just scenes that get hung up in answering nitpicky technical details that are completely irrelevant to a soft sci fi like ME.

Honestly, if you think "How can the Normandy land" matters in the slightest tiny bit then ME is not for you. Soft sci fi is not a genre that concerns itself with logical technicalities, hard sci fi is.

That's a serious suggestion you should take to heart - you might honestly find something you like more than ME, if you're interested in the hows and whys of the technology. Because that is the point of hard sci fi. Hard sci fi is about exploring futuristic concepts in as realistic a concept as possible, and sticks to reality and real science as hard as it can. Soft sci fi breaks concepts and physics all the time, for the sake of a story, so if you can't handle physics being twisted or broken for the sake of a story like that, you would just honestly prefer hard sci fi, because it's going to happen in soft sci fi.

You know...I am not even going to go into an detailed answer for you. If you think that your way of approaching other peoples opinions is correct. Go on and continue doing it. I personally find your way of writing and addressing other people as unnecessarily aggressive and flat out offending.

You are apparently the self declared expert on how other people should take their scifi or interpret ME. So pardon me if my simple questions are creating a problem for you. Just ignore them, why don't you. 

And here's a serious suggestion from me for you. Try accepting that other people might have different opinions than you. It might make life easier and keep your blood pressure down. If you don't agree with them..fine...but at least try to respect the person behind that opinion. Lashing out at everything that doesn't fit into your interpretation of ME gets a bit old by now. 

[noxiuniversitas1]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

*snip*

Agree with the *content* of what you've said. I don't really care about the technicalities / plotholes (shock, horror), as long as the characters are developed, real, and are people I can empathise with.

Edit: I should probably clarify that I don't care about the technicalities / plotholes *because* they are too numerous for the EC to fix. They really did bug me initially (and still do), but it was never a realistic ambition for BW to tackle them with free DLC alone. However, the EC did what I wanted (except for a reunion scene, which I then wrote for myself anyway...), and for that, BW is due credit.

Modifié par noxiuniversitas1, 27 juin 2012 - 10:53 .

[DOsquareZER]

Now, now gentlefolk - So minor details can be changed but in the end the larger picture of Liara getting to safety remains the same - all of which can be head canoned same as before when you tell your version. (Normandy being the iconic rescuer of shepard/crew in previous games why stop now...) Arista's kinda right, it's pointless nitpicking. There are larger ''plot holes'' that are more worthy of attention than this. If anyone expected intricate detail and perfection with this EC i feel sorry for 'em - at this point in Mass Effect 3's ending career... Im gonna side with the Emotion > Logic approach. Mass effect threw logic and sense out the window long ago, emotion is all thats left...as much of a pisser that is...

Modifié par doozer12, 27 juin 2012 - 10:51 .

[noxiuniversitas1]

ANYHOO... Can we please move back to more pleasant pastures?


http://greenflagcz.d...e-you-311072882


http://strayker.devi...ation-310585975

Modifié par noxiuniversitas1, 27 juin 2012 - 10:58 .

[Arcataye]

frudi wrote...

I really don't see why you went all blood-rage over of it.

Heh, I can understand when the first reply is just "Incorrect." with nothing else.
Nobody should force any opinions on anyone else.

I love the scene so much that the small weird parts don't matter that much. I still think about some of them, but the character interaction outweights the "plotholes". There's many things I could nitpick on, but chooce not to, as it doesn't really help anyone. They're not going redo it a second time.

Modifié par Arcataye, 27 juin 2012 - 10:58 .

[DOsquareZER]

god i love that .gif .... it should be on every page...

[Akernis]

Arcataye wrote...

That is strange, the armour here looks completely undamaged, when I played Liara wore phantom/alliance armour and I seem to recall that it looked considerably more damaged, I recall thinking that it actually made sense that the frightening amount of her blood was visible as it could flow from the damaged areas.

Is there anyone who have played with the various armours to see if if they are intact/damaged and if I simply remember wrong here?

Also poor Liara, really glad to see that she recovered so well



I so love that moment. everything is so great, the emotion in their voices and Liara's eyes, the words, even the fact that her skintone is that vibrant blue, which seems to annoyingly be rather rare in cutscenes, it is only in the gift scene and when walking up with shepard after the romance scene that her stunning blue colour is really evident .

Modifié par Akernis, 27 juin 2012 - 11:11 .

[DOsquareZER]

Ive played with two armors (that heavy one and the justicar red/black head ornament one), and it just looks like random spatter... like someone took a bucket of blood and threw it at her.

Modifié par doozer12, 27 juin 2012 - 11:08 .