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[d32f123]

lillitheris wrote...

Reject is the romantic ending. That is, it sounds awesome if you’re 17, have convictions, and don’t really think about the reality too much

Edit: I’m pretty sure Liara would disapprove of choosing Reject. But on the upside, you won’t be there to find out.

Just think: Liara died becouse of you. That is not cool:unsure:

[Aristobulus500]

The Lightspeaker wrote...

Wrote a new blog:
The good, the bad and the ugly – some thoughts on the Extended Cut

Posting because I know some of you guys read my blogs.

That's a pretty well written piece, and if you've read my earlier post, I pretty much agree. The EC content is satisfying now, and if it was the original endings, I wouldn't have been so outraged - but it's far from perfect. Rejection is really just an insult to fans and even Destroy just feels like, not enough.

Destroy's problem is just cutting off right after the Shepard breath scene feels like it's just stopping. Like it didn't end, the game might as well have just crashed or something. It just stops. And as you point out, this way it feels way too much like they are leading into a new game, a sequel, with Shepard and his crew still.

Yet they've said they don't want to do this - so ending on this total ****tease of an ending is just, it's absurd. Why end like that if you aren't actually going to do more with the characters? It just doesn't make sense - if they intend ME3 to actually be the end of Shepard's story and his crews' story, then end it for them! Don't be vague, use the ending to straight up show concrete things happening to them.

We really should've seen a reunion scene and then different endings with Shepard for how he lives his life afterwards based on your choices - going off to live like a kind on his fame and fortune, or going off to retire to a quiet life with Liara, etc.

[coatsworth]

d32f123 wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Reject is the romantic ending. That is, it sounds awesome if you’re 17, have convictions, and don’t really think about the reality too much

Edit: I’m pretty sure Liara would disapprove of choosing Reject. But on the upside, you won’t be there to find out.

Just think: Liara died becouse of you. That is not cool:unsure:

What Would Liara Do? Destroy of course, she would haunt me for the end of days because I didn't choose to be with her and save at least some people.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Aristobulus500 wrote...
That's a pretty well written piece, and if you've read my earlier post, I pretty much agree. The EC content is satisfying now, and if it was the original endings, I wouldn't have been so outraged - but it's far from perfect. Rejection is really just an insult to fans and even Destroy just feels like, not enough.

Destroy's problem is just cutting off right after the Shepard breath scene feels like it's just stopping. Like it didn't end, the game might as well have just crashed or something. It just stops. And as you point out, this way it feels way too much like they are leading into a new game, a sequel, with Shepard and his crew still.

Yet they've said they don't want to do this - so ending on this total ****tease of an ending is just, it's absurd. Why end like that if you aren't actually going to do more with the characters? It just doesn't make sense - if they intend ME3 to actually be the end of Shepard's story and his crews' story, then end it for them! Don't be vague, use the ending to straight up show concrete things happening to them.

We really should've seen a reunion scene and then different endings with Shepard for how he lives his life afterwards based on your choices - going off to live like a kind on his fame and fortune, or going off to retire to a quiet life with Liara, etc.

If Bioware wanted to end it in an open fashion they could perhaps just have a scene where Shepard wakes up in hospital and is greeted by all of the surviving characters. Like that scene at the end of "Return of the king" with Frodo waking up in Rivendel.

[noxiuniversitas1]

Ending chat

Modifié par noxiuniversitas1, 30 juin 2012 - 05:35 .

[Han Shot First]

MidnightRaith wrote...

Yep, very subtle and only really comes out if you take her with you in ME1. I didn't always like Liara and thought she was an encyclopedia on the asari and that's it. Then, I just brought her with me on a whim for a mission and she starts to drop jokes and humor that I would. That's when I realized that Liara wasn't an encyclopedia, she's just a nerd. A lovable nerd that reminds me of myself. I felt that her situational dialogue showed her off much better than the initial conversations.

I had a similar reaction to Liara in Mass Effect 1 as well. I liked her as a character, but wouldn't have listed her as my favorite. She could at times be a 'walking encyclopedia,' though in retrospect all the squadmates have less personality in Mass Effect 1 than they do in later games. It was Liara's scenes and dialogue in LotSB and ME3 that locked her in as perhaps my favorite character in the series.  I also prefer her more confident and situationally ruthless persona she exhibits as an information broker to the more shy and inexperienced persona she had in ME1.

A lot of people didn't like that Liara threatened to flay someone with her mind, but my reaction was, "I like where this is going!"

TMA LIVE wrote...

I think Bioware just didn't want to kill the Indoctrination Theory, since if Shepard woke up, and had a reunion, it would kill it. As is right now, people can interprete them all as a dream, that Shepard wakes up from, and then finishes the fight.

I think the Refuse ending debunks Indoctrination Theory rather thoroughly. Shepard has the option of telling the Star Child that he isn't going to take any of the options presented, proving that he's not indoctrinated, and the civilizations of the current cycle are annihilated as a result.

In the run up to the EC one of the demands of some of indoctrination theorists is that the ending should be amended to include a scene where Shepard refuses to play ball with the Star Chid, and 'wins.' Bioware took their suggestion but had it end defeat rather than victory. I think that new ending was specifically put in the game to administer the coup de grace to IT.

Whatever Bioware's reasoning was for not explanding on the breath scene, I don't think it was related to IT.

[moreeman06]

d32f123 wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Reject is the romantic ending. That is, it sounds awesome if you’re 17, have convictions, and don’t really think about the reality too much

Edit: I’m pretty sure Liara would disapprove of choosing Reject. But on the upside, you won’t be there to find out.

Just think: Liara died becouse of you. That is not cool:unsure:

*the bar in turian heaven  Shepard walks in*

Shepard:  Hey everyone 

*everyone ignores him quiet*

Shepard:  come on the big hero has arrived

*everyone turns glaring at Shepard*

*Shepard falls silent and walks slowly up to the bar*

Bartender:  Honey take one step closer and I'll wipe the bar with your face

Liara:  Father!!!!

*Liara looks at Shepard*  

Liara:  *glaring* you have a lot of making up to do for this one  *a devious grin appears on her face*  alot of making up to do....

[d32f123]

moreeman06 wrote...

d32f123 wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Reject is the romantic ending. That is, it sounds awesome if you’re 17, have convictions, and don’t really think about the reality too much

Edit: I’m pretty sure Liara would disapprove of choosing Reject. But on the upside, you won’t be there to find out.

Just think: Liara died becouse of you. That is not cool:unsure:

*the bar in turian heaven  Shepard walks in*

Shepard:  Hey everyone 

*everyone ignores him quiet*

Shepard:  come on the big hero has arrived

*everyone turns glaring at Shepard*

*Shepard falls silent and walks slowly up to the bar*

Bartender:  Honey take one step closer and I'll wipe the bar with your face

Liara:  Father!!!!

*Liara looks at Shepard*  

Liara:  *glaring* you have a lot of making up to do for this one  *a devious grin appears on her face*  alot of making up to do....

 though can't imagine Liara threatening like this, well except Liara in ME2

[lillitheris]

I imagine people would be more forgiving if it turned out there was an afterlife…but I wouldn’t bank on it.

Edit: plus if before getting to said afterlife it was two-three years of constant fear and ultimately a painful, gruesome death…even then forgiveness might be a little tight coming.

Modifié par lillitheris, 30 juin 2012 - 05:58 .

[DOsquareZER]

lillitheris wrote...
Reject is the romantic ending. That is, it sounds awesome if you’re 17, have convictions, and don’t really think about the reality too much
Edit: I’m pretty sure Liara would disapprove of choosing Reject. But on the upside, you won’t be there to find out.

This.
Read the article.  Shook my head.  Still view pointless reject choice as pointless, and therefore not an option.

Reject ending and how it was handled... is just...well... *lets liara do the talking*

If Bioware wanted to end it in an open fashion they could perhaps just
have a scene where Shepard wakes up in hospital and is greeted by all of
the surviving characters. Like that scene at the end of "Return of the
king" with Frodo waking up in Rivendel.

aww reunion scenes...   who knows, maybe bioware will throw in a FINAL final scene where that waking up in a hospital scene happens as a final farewell to the mass effect trilogy and farewell nod to the loyal fans after all other DLC plans are complete. 
*snorts, tries to keep a straight face*

Aw well, here's some food for those sappy head canons and imaginations BW keeps encouraging us to use.

Modifié par doozer12, 30 juin 2012 - 06:01 .

[The Lightspeaker]

doozer12 wrote...

This.
Read the article.  Shook my head.  Still view pointless reject choice as pointless, and therefore not an option.

If you don't mind then I'm going to try and feed off your decisiveness here. I've just spent an hour fighting off a depressive fit after reading it.

Modifié par The Lightspeaker, 30 juin 2012 - 06:05 .

[MidnightRaith]

Destroy is literally the only option I go with in regards with the ending. Control and Synthesis are horrible in my opinion, but Reject has to be the worst of them all. Everyone is counting on you to save them, to end the suffering. Oh, yes, let's stand up for Shepard's morality and convictions, but not consider anyone else when you pick this. Let's just doom everyone to harvesting, indoctrination, huskification, liquidation and any manner of horrific deaths all to sate my Shepard's desire to say no. And, if the deaths of you friends, LI, possibly family and everyone you've ever known wasn't enough, you've possibly just doomed future cycles to our fate considering we don't know if the next cycle discovers those archives or if it's the cycle after that or the cycle after that. Congratulations, Shepard, by not making the hard decisions when pressed, you've doomed countless people now and in the near future to horrific deaths. Yay.

[Han Shot First]

I like the Reject Ending because it is one where the Reapers outright win, at least for the current cycle. The game needed at least one ending where Shepard fails.

I also don't understand why some people were suprised by the results. The civilizations of the current cycle are far less technologically advanced than the Reapers, and as such cannot defeat them conventionally. The results of trying to defeat them conventionally were fairly predictable.

[Aristobulus500]

Han Shot First wrote...

I like the Reject Ending because it is one where the Reapers outright win, at least for the current cycle. The game needed at least one ending where Shepard fails.

I also don't understand why some people were suprised by the results. The civilizations of the current cycle are far less technologically advanced than the Reapers, and as such cannot defeat them conventionally. The results of trying to defeat them conventionally were fairly predictable.

Except for, you know, all the other times we defeated Reapers conventionally.

Oh and the time a worm with no technology at all to aid it defeated a Reaper.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Why would anyone pick reject over control or (the better versions) of destroy? Why doom everyone when you can the end the war right now and without screwing everything up?

doozer12 wrote...
aww
reunion scenes...   who knows, maybe bioware will throw in a FINAL
final scene where that waking up in a hospital scene happens as a final
farewell to the mass effect trilogy and farewell nod to the loyal fans
after all other DLC plans are complete. 
*snorts, tries to keep a straight face*

I was okay with what we got in the EC, but damn I would have loved a reunion.

[lillitheris]

Han Shot First wrote...

I like the Reject Ending because it is one where the Reapers outright win, at least for the current cycle. The game needed at least one ending where Shepard fails.

I like it as an ending; I don’t like it as a choice. I certainly wouldn’t mind seeing it if I got ganked in the final rush to the beam, for example.

As a choice, it’s in every way worse than even the low-EMS Destroy — it only makes sense if you RP not believing the Catalyst.

[MidnightRaith]

Han Shot First wrote...

I like the Reject Ending because it is one where the Reapers outright win, at least for the current cycle. The game needed at least one ending where Shepard fails.

I also don't understand why some people were suprised by the results. The civilizations of the current cycle are far less technologically advanced than the Reapers, and as such cannot defeat them conventionally. The results of trying to defeat them conventionally were fairly predictable.

See, I wouldn't mind the option to lose if it was because I failed. Not because I chose not to do anything. That's one of the reasons I don't like the Refusal ending. A lot of people thinks it's great because you get to lose in it, but it just seems like someone handed Shepard the Idiot Ball in that choice. I'd rather have it if I failed to get a certain outcome in the course of the game. Consequences can be great if they're done right, but the ending consequences seem trivial and meaningless because we don't get to see much of their actual outcomes.

Why can't I see a slide of Joker mourning EDI? Or the Quarians trying and failing to revive the Geth after all the work we all did to gain that peace? The same with the Refusal ending. It doesn't give me much of an idea of how people react to this choice, after I get over the fact that you have to willingly chose to fail for it to occur. It's illogical, too short, had no real emotion to it and it's obvious to me that it was shoehorned in. It's just not an ending I'd ever chose for any of my Shepards.

[The Lightspeaker]

frudi wrote...

As I've mentioned before, I think Reject is the only paragon choice.

I disagree. I don't think there IS a Paragon choice.

Because choosing to reject means selfishly putting your own morals or your simple inability to make a difficult decision above all of the lives that you KNOW will be lost in a conventional war. Even if you think you have a chance of winning you also know people will die for certain and have no idea of the cost.


That said I'm not going to discuss this myself further. I don't want to throw myself into another depressive fit. The one I just got over was bad enough.

[Pinkflu]

The Lightspeaker wrote...

frudi wrote...

As I've mentioned before, I think Reject is the only paragon choice.

I disagree. I don't think there IS a Paragon choice.

Because choosing to reject means selfishly putting your own morals or your simple inability to make a difficult decision above all of the lives that you KNOW will be lost in a conventional war. Even if you think you have a chance of winning you also know people will die for certain and have no idea of the cost.


That said I'm not going to discuss this myself further. I don't want to throw myself into another depressive fit. The one I just got over was bad enough.

I agree with you. Under normal circumstances, sticking to your convictions is admirable. But to stick rigidly to them over the lives of others is selfish and moronic. A paragon Shep would never do it, in my opinion.

[lillitheris]

frudi wrote...

Pinkflu wrote...

So, Liaralovers. Did any of you read this Forbes piece? [SPOILERS!]

'The Real Hero Of Mass Effect Explains How - And Why - The 'Reject Ending' Works'

Since this has now been posted several times and since others here have commented on the Reject ending, I might as well share some of my own thoughts on it.

As I've mentioned before, I think Reject is the only paragon choice. Without meta-gaming (i.e. ignoring the foreknowledge of its actual consequences) it is, I think, also the best and only right choice for a paragon Shepard and the only choice consistent with that Shepard's character.

Could not disagree more. You’re dooming the entire galaxy into a horrific war of attrition that will — even if you were to believe there was a chance of victory — kill billions, maybe trillions in gruesome ways, and the life before that is nothing but fear and grief.

Weighed against the painless death of the geth (as the worst direct result of the other options), the Paragon choice is clear: Not Reject.

Maybe if they put up one last valiant fight to the death they can take out enough Reapers to slow them down, buy the galaxy enough time to come up with another way.

‘Valiant’ is a word used by those who didn’t get horrifically mutilated and painfully killed in said valor.

As I said, it’s the romantic option.

Modifié par lillitheris, 30 juin 2012 - 06:44 .

[adneate]

doozer12 wrote...
Still view pointless reject choice as pointless, and therefore not an option.

Indeed for one it's idealistic to a point that none of my Paragon Sheps would ever even entertain it's also really stupid. Sure Star Brat is an insane douchebag we all can agree on that and his solutions "Control" and even worse "Synthesis" are essentially Shepard totally capitulating and telling the Reaper King "Well what do we have to do to make you stop, we'll do anything!". That doesn't change that at it's most basic level the Crucible is still a 50 Gigaton bomb with the detonater right in front of you.

You have no reason to believe that stupid kid and yet nothing to lose if you try to detonate the mother of all nuclear warheads. If it doesn't blow up then you can sit down with a sadface, don't refuse to set off the bomb and skip right to sadface sitting. At least give it a damn shot, it's not like things will be worse for trying to set off the bomb when the only other outcome is being killed and turned into a grey smoothie.

I came up there to accept the Reaper's unconditional surrender, not to offer the surrender of the galaxy and if I don't get my surrender I've got a big goddamn bomb to set off.

[MidnightRaith]

I don't think there is a Paragon choice here. You're either making a deal with the devil with various consequences, or you're standing around doing nothing and dooming everyone to a horrific death. Destroy is the only option that I can make with the clearest conscience. My Shepards hate killing EDI and the Geth for it, but their sacrifice seems to buy so much more than becoming a near God or forcibly changing everyone to their very core. Every choice as that sucky aspect to it, but I really think that Reject is the worst option of them all. The sheer selfishness in standing up for yourself at the cost of the galaxy is about as un-Paragon as you can get, I believe.

[S3Plan]

I love this.



link

It made me grin like an idiot. :happy:

[lillitheris]

adneate wrote...

That doesn't change that at it's most basic level the Crucible is still a 50 Gigaton bomb with the detonater right in front of you.

It’s nothing like that, actually.

You have no reason to believe that stupid kid and yet nothing to lose if you try to detonate the mother of all nuclear warheads.

I should specify that I view Destroy essentially as your ‘nuclear warhead’…due to game mechanics, you can’t say ‘no’ and then go trigger the base mode (which is Destroy). The Catalyst only offers you Synthesis and Control as the ‘new’ options to modify the base operating mode of the Crucible.

So Destroy is essentially the ‘f— you and the horse you rode in on’ option, for me. Headcanon (and my fic) handles it as such.

Modifié par lillitheris, 30 juin 2012 - 06:52 .