56469 réponses à ce sujet

[Ronin09]

I'm currently bringing a save of my Femshep that romanced her back in ME1 thruogh the trilogy and fair or not, I have to admit all the extra work put into to her romance writing vs. some of the other LIs is bringing my Femshep back around to her. I was ready just go back through ME3 with Traynor to get the EC, but I'm enjoying this more the I would that I think.

[lillitheris]

Yuqi wrote...

doozer12 wrote...

CrimsonN7 wrote...
I just wanted Shep to show some compassion to Liara in that scene, not to give her bondmate another pep talk, Liara always asks how Shep is feeling, there to offer comfort if needed, I really would have loved for Shep to return the favour in that scene. Oh well what's done is done:whistle:

maybe the pep talk was as much for sheps benefit as it was for Liara's - it may sound cold but it does get you off your ass, instead if allowing emotions of the situation weaken you and reduce you to a weepy mess, harness it and use it to fuel your strength to soldier on.  Theyre both pretty emotionally compromised in those scenes - its hard to remain a rock for someone when you yourself feel worn and slightly broken.  Which is what the defeat of Thessia was supposed to make Shepard feel - that and very angry.  Not really the best of moods to be comforting... at least not for my shep - but again thats the problem right there in a nutshell - lack of options for the variety of shepards romancing our lady blue.

Pretty much this ^  +100 for doozer.

Terrible writing is terrible writing is terrible writing. Removal of player agency is removal of player agency.

I’m glad at least some can rationalize it away for some Shepards…but it’s just bad writing, that’s all it is.

[Yuqi]

lillitheris wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

doozer12 wrote...

CrimsonN7 wrote...
I just wanted Shep to show some compassion to Liara in that scene, not to give her bondmate another pep talk, Liara always asks how Shep is feeling, there to offer comfort if needed, I really would have loved for Shep to return the favour in that scene. Oh well what's done is done:whistle:

maybe the pep talk was as much for sheps benefit as it was for Liara's - it may sound cold but it does get you off your ass, instead if allowing emotions of the situation weaken you and reduce you to a weepy mess, harness it and use it to fuel your strength to soldier on.  Theyre both pretty emotionally compromised in those scenes - its hard to remain a rock for someone when you yourself feel worn and slightly broken.  Which is what the defeat of Thessia was supposed to make Shepard feel - that and very angry.  Not really the best of moods to be comforting... at least not for my shep - but again thats the problem right there in a nutshell - lack of options for the variety of shepards romancing our lady blue.

Pretty much this ^  +100 for doozer.

Terrible writing is terrible writing is terrible writing. Removal of player agency is removal of player agency.

I’m glad at least some can rationalize it away for some Shepards…but it’s just bad writing, that’s all it is.

It was appropriate for a millitary character like Shepard to act like that; so I don't see how that part was bad writing. (Bad writing was the V.S.)

Modifié par Yuqi, 12 juillet 2012 - 08:12 .

[kumquats]

I kind of like the other scene, after Thessia. Liara on the bed crying and Shepard just says: "I know."
I like how Shepard seems so helpless and she can't just make everything okay. I wouldn't want my Shepard to comfort Liara in that scene.
My Shep is confident, maybe a little bit too arrogant sometimes and I play her after Thessia, that she is herself deeply shocked that she was defeated.

I mean, when you follow a leader who always says: we will defeat them, that makes you kind of secure, but when a leader like Shepard is scared or shocked, you know you're in trouble.
I really liked that.

The only problem is, that they make a close up of Shepard's face and I didn't remove the Renegade scars. That was kind of freakish. ^.^

[cohina]

Welcome aboard JDee3! I don't have any irl friends who play ME either, so I know how you feel, and it's okay to post long posts when there's something you want to say, and it wasn't even that long really .

[Arcataye]

Barquiel wrote...

http://biowarestore....lash-drive.html
so cute

Why the hell is all the Liara stuff so crappy. Egghead usb, anime statue, pinup shirt... <_<

mavqt wrote...

Fingers crossed for Femshep, but we all know it's going to me Mshep. if they go ahead with it.

Yep, Male Shepard & Ashley   :|

Han Shot First wrote...

If those things ever end up getting made, who do you think should play Liara?

The cinematic trailer CGI quality is perfectly fine for a movie, so just get Ali and everyone else to do the voices.

TheMarshal wrote...

If the way ME3 was handled is any indication, EA/Bioware doesn't particularly care about current fans of the franchise, since they spent so much time making sure ME3 was a "great place to start the series"... &nbsp;So I'm sure that any Mass Effect movie that gets made won't be made for any of us.

The movie might just get people who do not play games interested in the universe just enough to buy ME3 and DLC's that have come out at that point.

JDee3 wrote...

First forum I actually read and write on. I have no friends that play ME to talk about this kinda stuff with:(

Welcome, and me neither.

TheMarshal wrote...

Chapter 6 of Returned is up!

I'll be taking a bit of a hiatus after this to work on something for the Mass Effect Big Bang over on LJ.  I should be back on this by September!

Yay!  Do you mean this Big Bang? Never heard of it, just searched on Google.


Oh and Hubble discovered a fifth moon orbiting Pluto but we all know what it really is.

- Only drawback would be that it would mean the Reapers are coming.
- But we know what to do now and we have like 150 years.
- Imagine walking up to the Council holding the Mass Effect trilogy and being like "There's your proof right there! The reapers are coming!"

Modifié par Arcataye, 12 juillet 2012 - 09:10 .

[lillitheris]

Yuqi wrote...

It was appropriate for a millitary character like Shepard to act like that; so I don't see how that part was bad writing. (Bad writing was the V.S.)

No, it wasn’t. Military characters love. Most lovers wouldn’t act like that.

It fits your Shepard? Fantastic. No, really, I mean it. But it doesn’t seem to fit 95% of the people here!

So please, for the love of the Goddess, please stop explaining why some railroading of the character makes sense when it’s something that should obviously have been left up to the individual players to choose.

And that doesn’t mean it would have been great if it had been the other way around and there was only a cuddly moment — this is a game. Not a movie, not a book. You are supposed to get to have options in a game.

I’m sorry I’m animated, but I hate it when clear bugs or bad writing are rationalized away. Accept it and ignore it is fine…but trying to explain it away as if it was the player’s fault for ‘not getting it’ or whatever, that gets me every time.

[Jebel Krong]

Akernis wrote...

TheDonk95 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

There has been some talk recently on the boards about the Mass Effect movies.

If those things ever end up getting made, who do you think should play Liara? Pretending for a moment that you are the casting director, who would you want to cast? If Ali Hillis is your first choice, who would be your second if she were unavailable or the producers had made a decision not to cast the voice actors from the games?

Well I guess having Jilian Murray (forgot her exact name, the girl Liara is modeled after), while changing her voice through a computer program or something.
Though I'm really againt such a movie to be made, because usually movies that are made after video game really suck and they are just a disgrace to the game itself. I really don't want this to be the case with Mass Effect.

I does not really matter to me since I won't be invested in it anyway, I might watch it but there is no way it is going to do the game even remotely justice, even if they do everything (or what little they can fit in) as I did it still won't be or feel like my Shepard but just a Shepard. And I am really scared what they will do to the characters in it, since unlees Liara is written by Sylvia (or who wrote her in ME1), voiced by Ali and modelled after Julian it just won't be Liara to me.
In general I think a movie over any of the games is a horrible idea, if it had been about another part of the universe we don't know that much about like the first contact war, or a battle taking place during the Reaper War where Shep and company is not present I would have been ecstatic.
But as it is it is just going to feel wrong, especially since one of the most important thing, the interaction by the player is removed and a huge amount of the game will be dropped, and only a small group of the fans will actually be satified by the choices being made.
I just don't see the movie having any chance of being able to do the game justice.

see i just dn't get this attitude from any of the fans here, especially anyone who has then also created any form of fanart/fiction: of course the shepard won't be "your" one, but that doesn't invalidate "yours" or "theirs" and it won't make the resultant film better or worse - it will live or die on it's own qualities. yes there have been some awful game to film adaptations, but that's par for the course in hollywood, however for every "battleship" there's an "avengers" or "the dark knight rises". and if a film broadens the audience and gets more people buying the games, which in turn gives us more games in the franchise, we all win by default.

The events of the first game could be truncated a litle and would make a great movie - hell the games are cinematic aleady. it appeals to existing fans because you get to see an interpretation of the game that you know, and it appeals to new people because it's a new experience - you have the benefit of known quantities: story, quality and - hopefuly - core audience, making the risk of budget somewhat less. personally i'd love to see blur studios do it as a cgi feature, if they can match the quality of their trailers it would not only give a unique spin on it, but also undoubtedly look stunning (and probably could be done for less money than would otherwise be needed to do the film justice).

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 12 juillet 2012 - 09:28 .

[Jebel Krong]

frudi wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

* I had no political agenda, but if you must inject politics into this** at least be accurate: the different symbolism you may be thinking is that of totalitarianism.

Sigh...

It's not about totalitarianism, if you want to nitpick it would be about totalitarian socialism. You know, the only kind that has ever existed. Hence why people that have any experience with it probably don't see the need to explicitly qualify socialism as totalitarian.

lillitheris wrote...

** Like, really, you had to?

I genuinely thought of it just as an innocent joke. I did not expect people to get this excited at the mere mention of socialism.



As for what exactly caught my eye about that HTL poster. The motif, colour scheme and even the slogan are all unfortunately reminiscent of the type of political propaganda posters anyone who ever lived in a socialist country would recognise. I'm not actually big on symbols, if I have something against them I generally just ignore them or alternatively make fun of them. Though, since people seem to be taking my comments as an attack on their values or something, I should probably clarify I don't have anything against Rosie's posters, my comments were directed squarely at the HTL version.

It's just that the author of this particular Liara re-creation chose an unfortunate combination of elements, one that in me evoked a different association than intended. I commented on it, mostly as a joke, and unfortunately things got kind of out of hand. Lesson learned, in the future assume people have no sense of humour when it comes to politics or symbols...

i agree with you totally: the reason for the association with socialist/communist/totalitarianist states is simply the strong iconography represented within many: ****sm, soviet republic etc. the fact that it was copied by the allied forces is because it was effective, and then adapted in many different ways in a variety of applications thereafter. There should be no stigma attached to it - it's just a certain style of art after all, and indeed anyone from a eastern european/russian background would readily recognise such symbols (and those educated elsewhere should, too).

[Jebel Krong]

Yuqi wrote...

I'm starting to wonder, if Liara is the most cheated on LI. I wonder how many 'new' Liara fans would run back to Miranda/whomever, if they got more content. I'm kind of disgusted actually. Ihave to ask is this an English thing?



by ~VVernacatola

that's awesome!

[lillitheris]

Jebel Krong wrote...

i agree with you totally: the reason for the association with socialist/communist/totalitarianist states is simply the strong iconography represented within many: ****sm, soviet republic etc. the fact that it was copied by the allied forces is because it was effective, and then adapted in many different ways in a variety of applications thereafter.

Please be accurate, at least: US propaganda posters from 1917 and earlier. (Other countries too.)

The style is clearly recognizable — and there wasn’t even a Soviet Union back then… So, again, I’m sorry that you’ve got weird — if understandable — political hang-ups about this, but it really has nothing to do with that.

(The posters are quite interesting, actually, even if you don’t care about this particular line of discussion.)

Modifié par lillitheris, 12 juillet 2012 - 10:05 .

[Jebel Krong]

lillitheris wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

i agree with you totally: the reason for the association with socialist/communist/totalitarianist states is simply the strong iconography represented within many: ****sm, soviet republic etc. the fact that it was copied by the allied forces is because it was effective, and then adapted in many different ways in a variety of applications thereafter.

Please be accurate, at least: US propaganda posters from 1917 and earlier. (Other countries too.)

The style is clearly recognizable — and there wasn’t even a Soviet Union back then… So, again, I’m sorry that you’ve got weird — if understandable — political hang-ups about this, but it really has nothing to do with that.

(The posters are quite interesting, actually, even if you don’t care about this particular line of discussion.)

iconography goes back to before the roman empire if you want to be pendantic about it - i was merely highlighting the most common examples of the last century. propaganda, symbolism etc go back to the dawn of time - same as religion (which has a lot of the same hallmarks).

[mumba]

 You know... for someone who spent half of her life studying Protheans, Liara is pretty damn good at dancing in Flux. 

[Obsidian Gryphon]

Mumba1511 wrote...

 You know... for someone who spent half of her life studying Protheans, Liara is pretty damn good at dancing in Flux. 

Well, there's the growing up pains.   Maybe all Asari learn to dance in school.

[AlexMBrennan]

TheMarshal wrote...

Chapter 6 of Returned is up!

I'll be taking a bit of a hiatus after this to work on something for the Mass Effect Big Bang over on LJ. I should be back on this by September!

That's just evil.

[Mavqt]

Mumba1511 wrote...

 You know... for someone who spent half of her life studying Protheans, Liara is pretty damn good at dancing in Flux. 

Thats what I thought when I first played ME1, but I came to conclusion that she must be naturally gifted in the art of dance!:happy:

[Flatrid]

Another one from Mallixable

http://fc07.devianta...ble-d56s4sv.gif

[lillitheris]

Stick it inside img tags, like:

Modifié par lillitheris, 12 juillet 2012 - 02:11 .

[Yuqi]

lillitheris wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

It was appropriate for a millitary character like Shepard to act like that; so I don't see how that part was bad writing. (Bad writing was the V.S.)

No, it wasn’t. Military characters love. Most lovers wouldn’t act like that.

It fits your Shepard? Fantastic. No, really, I mean it. But it doesn’t seem to fit 95% of the people here!

So please, for the love of the Goddess, please stop explaining why some railroading of the character makes sense when it’s something that should obviously have been left up to the individual players to choose.

And that doesn’t mean it would have been great if it had been the other way around and there was only a cuddly moment — this is a game. Not a movie, not a book. You are supposed to get to have options in a game.

I’m sorry I’m animated, but I hate it when clear bugs or bad writing are rationalized away. Accept it and ignore it is fine…but trying to explain it away as if it was the player’s fault for ‘not getting it’ or whatever, that gets me every time.

 The Shepard Character is formost military.( It dosn't matter what name, hair colour, or gender you give them that is always going to be the case.) After a significant loss like Thessia, no  millitary commander would waste time comforting one-person, when there're a million other productive things they could be doing. Which  the paragon option does illustrate by Shepard being:  firm,fair, to the point, and straight onto something more productive. 

So I'm going to have to disagree with you on this scene, the writing was appropriate for the scenario.

[Xilizhra]

RE Lilitheris: That scene strikes me as sort of sad, really... well, it's a good thing that Shepard came back, of course.

As for Yuqi, consider that Shepard isn't exactly shy about breaking fraternization regulations. There's every possibility, especially in such an emotionally fragile state herself, that she'd just want to be comforting, or even mutually pained, with Liara in that moment.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 12 juillet 2012 - 02:27 .

[Yuqi]

Xilizhra wrote...

RE Lilitheris: That scene strikes me as sort of sad, really... well, it's a good thing that Shepard came back, of course.

As for Yuqi, consider that Shepard isn't exactly shy about breaking fraternization regulations. There's every possibility, especially in such an emotionally fragile state herself, that she'd just want to be comforting, or even mutually pained, with Liara in that moment.

Not all Shepards break the fraternization regulation.
Not all Shepards are female
The level of Shepards fragility is debatable
But all Shepards are  millitary, so the writing there is  appropriate and fits way more variables and scenarios in players heads.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Yuqi wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

RE Lilitheris: That scene strikes me as sort of sad, really... well, it's a good thing that Shepard came back, of course.

As for Yuqi, consider that Shepard isn't exactly shy about breaking fraternization regulations. There's every possibility, especially in such an emotionally fragile state herself, that she'd just want to be comforting, or even mutually pained, with Liara in that moment.

Not all Shepards break the fraternization regulation.
Not all Shepards are female
The level of Shepards fragility is debatable
But all Shepards are  millitary, so the writing there is  appropriate and fits way more variables and scenarios in players heads.

"But all Shepards are  millitary, so the writing there is  appropriate
and fits way more variables and scenarios in players heads."

I call foul on this. The idea that having Shepard always be distant and cold during this scene is outrageous, especially since Liara can either be a good friend or lover. So yes, not all Shepards are going to be in love with Liara, but the scene sure as hell should have accounted for the possibility and have options to reflect that.

[adneate]

Yuqi you do realize that soldiers and even Officers are people right? They aren't turned out in a factory somewhere and programmed with rules on how to act. I've had plenty of CO's who had very personable touches to them, who wouldn't just care for their combat unit but also the individuals in it. There are many different styles of command and leadership, trying to argue one as "Military" and the others as not basically glosses over the thousands of accomplished and dedicated Officers and NCOs that don't conform to your template.

Every single day isn't boot camp or soldier qualification and believe it or not some of the people you serve with aren't just comrades or friends but they're an extended family. The attention to the details of the individuals under your command is one of the marks of a great Officer and not everything is solved with a speech or just telling someone to move on.

[lillitheris]

Yuqi wrote...

 The Shepard Character is formost military.( It dosn't matter what name, hair colour, or gender you give them that is always going to be the case.) After a significant loss like Thessia, no  millitary commander would waste time comforting one-person, when there're a million other productive things they could be doing.

This is simply false, I’m sorry. Some would surely feel that way. Some wouldn’t. You seriously can’t take 5 minutes to comfort the person you love? Or, hell, 5 seconds to give a hug before telling them to get back to work.

My Shepards wouldn’t. Yours might. Bioware’s apparently did.

It’s first and foremost removal of player agency (it’s a f— game, let me pick), but also terrible writing. Had the paragon Shepard consistently only been about the mission and nothing else, that’d be one thing — but that’s pretty much the exact opposite of her typical motif (and, in fact, quite close to what people argue the Renegade options are about). The paragon options consistently let you give comfort or help, rather than tell the distressed people to deal with it.

In other  words, it’s extremely out of character for a paragon Shepard and, as such, terrible writing.

A hint in case it‘s useful in the future: if the person you love is hurting, it’s probably a better idea to give them a hug than to tell them to deal with it.

…

Edit: topless, damn it. Here’s some MShep for a change, ugly as he is. Liara and the baby are very well done, though.


By Haupmann?

Modifié par lillitheris, 12 juillet 2012 - 03:06 .

[Wulfram]

I think a pep talk is what Liara needed at that time, not a hug. The issue wasn't sadness, it was being stuck in despair, helplessness and guilt.

Which isn't to say that Shepard shouldn't have been able to offer comfort - that's what I'd likely have done - just that I don't think it would have really helped at that point.