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[Han Shot First]

Ravii wrote...

Barquiel wrote...


I actually liked the redemption comics (after playing LOTSB), but I agree...some of her one-liners were really bad.

I think I understand why they called this place Afterlife is probably my "favorite"

When did she say that line? Right now I try hard to remember that but can't figure it out. Maybe I overheard that but I don't think so.

It is in the comics.

[Ravii]

Han Shot First wrote...

Ravii wrote...

Barquiel wrote...


I actually liked the redemption comics (after playing LOTSB), but I agree...some of her one-liners were really bad.

I think I understand why they called this place Afterlife is probably my "favorite"

When did she say that line? Right now I try hard to remember that but can't figure it out. Maybe I overheard that but I don't think so.

It is in the comics.

Wow. I need to read it again...right now and thanks.

[DOsquareZER]

Ya know, I totally missed that explanation line hence my Wtf? thats it? response.. until about my third PT of me2 (in total, i didnt take the same shep through three times - so roughly about a 4-5 month time lapse of me not knowing). I stumbled across it with my engineer (who didn't romance anyone, unfortunately) when my niece simply directed me to "Pick that line" as she watched me play. Both my other sheps just wished her luck (or my paragon refused to help, the pious ninny), shrugged their shoulders, and went on their merry way convinced Liara had moved on with her life. I had to double take and go you did wha? when she spilled the beans. THEN i picked up redemption, and LotSB and the affection and respect i have for this asari increased tenfold.

As far as the comic and her being OOC, eh slowly shrugging it off - A)Walters...comic books... whatever... and  maybe a little of my romanced renegade came off on her through the melds or something, tie that in with the emotional stress she was going through and sure..lets believe she'd punch every second person she saw that threatened her and lay waste to one of the SB's bases.  

Also: 1800, Liara approves.  Not long now and she can accomplish her goal of world domination, if we can just stem the hordes of those tali fans...

Modifié par doozer12, 26 juillet 2012 - 06:37 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Barquiel wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...



Another
thing that bothers me is when the writers give Liara those corny action
one liners, ME1 had that problem with the canned one liners they gave
all the squadmember at the start and end of combat, Redemption also had
quite a few if I remember and there is the one scenario in ME3 if Garrus
is dead where she has one.



Liara saying one liners in battle just feels so jarring, it works for characters like Garrus, but not Liara.

I actually liked the redemption comics (after playing LOTSB), but I agree...some of her one-liners were really bad.



I think I understand why they called this place Afterlife is probably my "favorite"

I
just feel that Liara would not find battle or fighting "fun", unlike
say, Garrus who proberly enjoys the prospect of dispensing some justice
on criminal scum. Liara on the other hand just wants the fighting part
over as soon as possible.

adneate wrote...
I think they
used the "Liara is angry wants to fight Feron says not yet" thing a bit
too much. Though I mean in 2/3rds of backstories for Shepard you do
something completely and utterly suicidal, the Torfan assault is
suicidal and Shepard makes it worse through agression and trying to
paint the walls with every single Batarian in the bunker. Elysium is
probably the most suicidal since you're taking on a superior force with
almost nothing but Militia quality troops in a straight up slugging
match.

So maybe a little bit of that rubbed off on her and she
feels strongly enough about this to throw reason to the wind. That being
said they did a really bad job of writing a rational character behaving
irrationally. It wouldn't be as simple as them acting crazy and doing
stupid things, more of them digging in on something that much harder or
closing up their motives all the more. Instead of wanting to charge them
in a spur of the moment fight she'd have a plan to attack the Broker's
base and she'd resist any attempt by anyone to alter or deviate from the
plan. Closing herself off from any other possibilites and being
transfixed by the goal she has in mind.

I am no
military expert, but I always got the impression that between Elysium
and Torfan, Torfan was more deadly and lethal battlefield.

And
while I can't remember the Redemption comic very well (thank god!), I
remember feeling that Liara seemed too irrational and violent no matter
how much Shepard rubbed off on her her.

@Regarding the Illium cameo.

The problem with it is that it does not make any sense if you unlock the "I couldn't let you go" dialog, since Bioware in their attempt to create drama(which is not necessarily a bad thing) forced Shepard to act in a certain way that does not work with that dialog, especially in a romance.

[adneate]

Lizardviking wrote...
I am no military expert, but I always got the impression that between Elysium and Torfan, Torfan was more deadly and lethal battlefield.

Torfan is characterized as a bloodbath against a hardened target, though with Elysium they do give the odds Shepard faced when he or she went to plug a gap in the line alone, Shepard went solo against an entire Platoon with is about 30 - 50 soldiers. The odds are so suicidal that I can't see any trained Officer choosing to put themselves in that situation willingly, unless they unwittingly walked into the situation checking a section of the line or they had a death wish.

Bad odds are 3:1 suicidal odds are 40:1. I wouldn't guess at what the statistical odds of surviving an action like that are but they would be low, very low. Which fits if the requirements for the Star of Terra are anything like the Victoria Cross or Medal of Honor most of those who earn the award earn it posthumously.

[lillitheris]

rubynorman wrote...


About the comic, I understand her motive, but the way she did it is out of her character IMO. She is supposed to be the one who think before doing.

The world would be a much simpler place if people always did what you expect them to :happy:

…

Why do we care about people abandoning Liara/whoever again?

[Barquiel]

Lizardviking wrote...

I
just feel that Liara would not find battle or fighting "fun", unlike
say, Garrus who proberly enjoys the prospect of dispensing some justice
on criminal scum. Liara on the other hand just wants the fighting part
over as soon as possible.

agreed

Liara even says she would prefer lengthier studies... and fewer explosions.

[lillitheris]

Barquiel wrote...

Liara even says she would prefer lengthier studies... and fewer explosions.

…And yet, she’s where the explosions are.

The world would also be a much simpler place if everyone could have what they preferred :happy:

…

Anyway, if you don’t like the take, just headcanon it to something else, the details of the retrieval aren’t all that important.

I personally like the small bit of unpredictability that comes from Liara’s handling of negative emotions under stress (and there’s also the classic opening the floodgates thing—once you lose control, it’s hard to rein it back in immediately).

[Barquiel]

lillitheris wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Liara even says she would prefer lengthier studies... and fewer explosions.

…And yet, she’s where the explosions are.

The world would also be a much simpler place if everyone could have what they preferred :happy:

…

Anyway, if you don’t like the take, just headcanon it to something else, the details of the retrieval aren’t all that important.

I personally like the small bit of unpredictability that comes from Liara’s handling of negative emotions under stress (and there’s also the classic opening the floodgates thing—once you lose control, it’s hard to rein it back in immediately).

Her ME1 battle cries ("Finally, some action!", "Now it gets fun!" etc.) were a bit ooc. I think that's what Lizardviking meant. As I've said, I rather like the comics.

Modifié par Barquiel, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:04 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

adneate wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
I am no
military expert, but I always got the impression that between Elysium
and Torfan, Torfan was more deadly and lethal battlefield.

Torfan
is characterized as a bloodbath against a hardened target, though with
Elysium they do give the odds Shepard faced when he or she went to plug a
gap in the line alone, Shepard went solo against an entire Platoon with
is about 30 - 50 soldiers. The odds are so suicidal that I can't see
any trained Officer choosing to put themselves in that situation
willingly, unless they unwittingly walked into the situation checking a
section of the line or they had a death wish.

Bad odds are 3:1
suicidal odds are 40:1. I wouldn't guess at what the statistical odds of
surviving an action like that are but they would be low, very low.
Which fits if the requirements for the Star of Terra are anything like
the Victoria Cross or Medal of Honor most of those who earn the award
earn it posthumously.

Fair enoug, the reason I said
Torfan sounded more dangerous is that I always imagined that Shepard was
involved in the heavy fighting that took place (as opposed to just
sitting in the background throwing her squad away), but perhaps that was
just my ignorance shining through?

doozer12 wrote...

Also: 1800, Liara approves.  Not long now
and she can accomplish her goal of world domination, if we can just stem
the hordes of those tali fans...

Ohmygod! This is such an adorable picture of Liara! Almost as good as Angry!Liara, and I l <3 Angry!Liara


Angry!Liara

Modifié par Lizardviking, 26 juillet 2012 - 07:54 .

[shepard1038]

adneate wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
I am no military expert, but I always got the impression that between Elysium and Torfan, Torfan was more deadly and lethal battlefield.

Torfan is characterized as a bloodbath against a hardened target, though with Elysium they do give the odds Shepard faced when he or she went to plug a gap in the line alone, Shepard went solo against an entire Platoon with is about 30 - 50 soldiers. The odds are so suicidal that I can't see any trained Officer choosing to put themselves in that situation willingly, unless they unwittingly walked into the situation checking a section of the line or they had a death wish.

Bad odds are 3:1 suicidal odds are 40:1. I wouldn't guess at what the statistical odds of surviving an action like that are but they would be low, very low. Which fits if the requirements for the Star of Terra are anything like the Victoria Cross or Medal of Honor most of those who earn the award earn it posthumously.

No, they have been soldiers in real life that have survived such encounters. Also remember that Shepard is N7.Thats the equivalent to a green beret.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

lillitheris wrote...

rubynorman wrote...


About the comic, I understand her motive, but the way she did it is out of her character IMO. She is supposed to be the one who think before doing.

The world would be a much simpler place if people always did what you expect them to :happy:

…

Why do we care about people abandoning Liara/whoever again?

Yes, Liara is there were the exploisions are, but even then I doubt she is the type to say one-liners. Liara would instead simply just coldy kill those that got in her way and get moving.

And I still recall her just acting way too agressive in the comics IMO, but maybe that was just my memories.

[Mavqt]

I missed 1800? for f*** sake. :C

[rubynorman]

shepard1038 wrote...

adneate wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
I am no military expert, but I always got the impression that between Elysium and Torfan, Torfan was more deadly and lethal battlefield.

Torfan is characterized as a bloodbath against a hardened target, though with Elysium they do give the odds Shepard faced when he or she went to plug a gap in the line alone, Shepard went solo against an entire Platoon with is about 30 - 50 soldiers. The odds are so suicidal that I can't see any trained Officer choosing to put themselves in that situation willingly, unless they unwittingly walked into the situation checking a section of the line or they had a death wish.

Bad odds are 3:1 suicidal odds are 40:1. I wouldn't guess at what the statistical odds of surviving an action like that are but they would be low, very low. Which fits if the requirements for the Star of Terra are anything like the Victoria Cross or Medal of Honor most of those who earn the award earn it posthumously.

No, they have been soldiers in real life that have survived such encounters. Also remember that Shepard is N7.Thats the equivalent to a green beret.

Shep did Elysium when she/he was 22. I always headcanon that after Elysium they invited Shep to the N program not before Elysium  

Edit: this thread is quite funny
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/12397584/1

Modifié par rubynorman, 26 juillet 2012 - 08:58 .

[adneate]

shepard1038 wrote...
No, they have been soldiers in real life that have survived such encounters. Also remember that Shepard is N7.Thats the equivalent to a green beret.

Most Spec Ops fail so being Special Forces doesn't make a huge difference in terms of how many bullets 50 guys will shoot at you. The strength of special forces is being in and out before anyone knows what's going on, not taking on superior forces in a straight up fight. Encounters like that tend to go very poorly without some kind of outside support, like helicopter gunships or an airstrike. While some have survived impossible odds that doesn't change the fact that the odds are suicidal. Nobody in their right mind would willingly take on a platoon by theirselves, it's something that circumstance forces on you.

[AlexMBrennan]

Edit: this thread is quite funny
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/12397584/1

I always went for pink/green/cyan camouflage...

Most Spec Ops fail so being Special Forces doesn't make a huge difference in terms of how many bullets 50 guys will shoot at you. The strength of special forces is being in and out before anyone knows what's going on, not taking on superior forces in a straight up fight.

Is that a fact? I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that training does matter. In particular, I can see a special forces soldier, who spends a few hours at the range every day, having the advantage in a confrontation with pirates and slaver. Your average serviceman (pirate/slaver/Taliban) is simply not a very good marksman.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 26 juillet 2012 - 09:37 .

[shepard1038]

Incorrect most operations are classified. Yes, it does. Training trains you to adapt to every possible situation and makes you a marksman. They can kill you faster than you could kill them. And they use teamwork. So they become an unstoppable force. Incorrect one of the various training involves training for that.

[lillitheris]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Edit: this thread is quite funny
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/12397584/1

I always went for pink/green/cyan camouflage...

Most Spec Ops fail so being Special Forces doesn't make a huge difference in terms of how many bullets 50 guys will shoot at you. The strength of special forces is being in and out before anyone knows what's going on, not taking on superior forces in a straight up fight.

Is that a fact? I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that training does matter. In particular, I can see a special forces soldier, who spends a few hours at the range every day, having the advantage in a confrontation with pirates and slaver. Your average serviceman (pirate/slaver/Taliban) is simply not a very good marksman.

Yeah. That’s when you’re facing 4 enemies. 40…a few of them will get lucky.

[adneate]

AlexMBrennan wrote...
Is that a fact? I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that training does matter. In particular, I can see a special forces soldier, who spends a few hours at the range every day, having the advantage in a confrontation with pirates and slaver. Your average serviceman (pirate/slaver/Taliban) is simply not a very good marksman.

The problem is simple really it's suppression fire, 50 guys regardless of marksman ability or lack there of can produce a withering amount of small arms fire. To the point that you'll be pinned down behind cover unable to move or return fire. Then they'll just flank you and kill you.

It's how every single inferior quality force overtakes one of superior quality, they simply overwhelm you with numbers and firepower. They don't have to hit you, they can fire 10,000 rounds and miss with every single one, but they've got you pinned that whole time and once they find a flank where your cover is worthless you're dead. You break cover that suppression fire will cut you down, you don't break cover the flanking force will kill you. All it takes is one bullet to end the fight on your end and if the air above you is full of high speed death you won't want to stick your head up there to use your perfectly honed shooting skills.

Modifié par adneate, 26 juillet 2012 - 10:23 .

[Wulfram]

In the mass effect universe you've got personal shields. Means that a few lucky shots won't kill you, and you maybe can pop up into that suppression fire. Particularly if you've got top of the line military gear and they're equipped like youd'd expect from a bunch of pirate scumbags

[lillitheris]

^ Yeah, and so do the other guys.

^^ Kinda want to get back from off-topic, but I’ve got a final recommendation, since it happens to be on the TV just now: “Tears of the Sun” gives you a semi-semi-realistic account of Special Forces vs. lots of enemies.

In short, I prefer my fights semi-realistic: 1:50 = dead.

…

And now for some

stunwaldo

Modifié par lillitheris, 26 juillet 2012 - 10:49 .

[adneate]

lillitheris wrote...
^^ Kinda want to get back from off-topic, but I’ve got a final recommendation, since it happens to be on the TV just now: “Tears of the Sun” gives you a semi-semi-realistic account of Special Forces vs. lots of enemies.

I agree it's pretty well put together in the sense that they use an elastic defence then call in air support to break the attack.

I think the point I was making was lost, I wasn't saying Elysium was impossible merely that it's a very reckless and dangerous action, even if a noble one. Something that could have rubbed off on Liara in time for redemption when she throws caution to the wind trying to get Shepard back. They go too far in redemption but a War Hero Shepard has that forceful, "frak the odds" element to their personality.

[shepard1038]

I was just trying to say that you can survive. You just stop their advancement. They will either give up (most likely) or continue and just hold their advancement until reinforcement. When troops are pinned down by a larger force they hold out until reinforcements. Well Shepard is the type of person that defies the odds. They are persons that are like that. Like Garrus, Grunt, Wrex. :)I think Shepard's attitude got in to Liara. Because she gets a little reckless in Me2.
Am i the only one that thinks being around Shepard is dangerous to your health by the amount of fire that Shepard takes and the dangerous stunts he makes?

Modifié par shepard1038, 26 juillet 2012 - 11:49 .

[CrimsonN7]

karmensandiego wrote...

moreeman06 wrote...

And Karmen I'm not sure where they all went although Doozer being a VI does make sense i was wondering why i could see the liquid pouring in a puddle beneath him/her wherever he/she walked....  Yes I've been in this thread that long and still have no idea if your a boy or girl doozer,  I'm just going to refer to you as starbuck for now on.

*sad sigh*  I miss them  Moree!!!  Where's Hollow?  And Jlb?  And and Ladyvader and and ALL THE REST???

Come on Karmen gives us newbies a chance, we don't suck that much, do we? *looks cautiously in the direction of the threads resident Matriarchs erm... you don't have to answer that*

Finally caught up and for feck sake I've missed the 1800 grrr:pinched: Please forgive my tardiness Liara
by Estebanmn @ DeviantArt

Lol Doozer and PMC that lil Titanic discussion had me in knots:D Speaking of movies went to see the new Batman film last night, f*ckin' brill, the best of the trilogy IMO, seeing how perfect they ended that great trilogy of Nolan/Bale Batman's made me pretty pissed again with what Bioware did to what should have been the best game of the Mass Effect trilogy. <_< Well at least Batman didn't leave me down;)

[shepard1038]

@CrimsonN7

I don't. I had shared some interesting and good topics in this thread:whistle:. I too missed page 1800. Glad to see you didn't mentioned me<_<. Since i was part of the discussion. Would you recommend the movie? Are you dissapointed with Mass Effect 3 or the ending? If is the endings i agree that Mass Effect 3 deserved better endings, but if is the game i disagree.

Modifié par shepard1038, 27 juillet 2012 - 12:35 .