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Liara Fans: keep your love blue and true!

Débuté par Grunt Lord , juin 13 2011 05:04

56469 réponses à ce sujet

#45151
Guest_frudi_*
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 12:21

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lillitheris wrote...

frudi wrote...

lillitheris: with the Alpha relay destroyed, the Reapers came into the galaxy through Batarian space, thus the Batarians faced their full force alone.


I still don’t see how your logic works here. The batarians

1. Are not limited by the Alpha relay, they have others; and
2. Would have been destroyed earlier had Shepard not blown up the relay.

There is nothing in Shepard’s actions, that I can see, that made the situation worse for the batarians. If you’re saying that if the relay had been intact, the Reapers would have come through it and destroyed Bahak, but then attacked exclusively non-batarian systems, I guess you can make that argument…but I don’t find it particularly convincing. Plus the batarians would have died in the end anyway.

So, all in all, to me it seems clear that destroying the relay was the best thing to help the batarians.

1. and those other Batarian systems were the first the Reapers went through, since they couldn't use the Alpha relay to attack the rest of the galaxy
2. that's just because Mac & Co. decided to pull a Deus Ex Machina (ie the Crucible) out of their ass to unwaste the 6 months the rest of the galaxy wasted

What Shepard did was trap all the Reapers in Batarian space, thus ensuring their destruction, to buy the rest of the galaxy some time. They might have died in the end anyway, but at least they would have had a fighting chance.

#45152
shepard1038
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 12:23

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If you don't want to get your hands tainted then don't play arrival. That way Shepard doesn't have anything to do about the incident.

#45153
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Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 12:25

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shepard1038 wrote...

If you don't want to get your hands tainted then don't play arrival. That way Shepard doesn't have anything to do about the incident.

It's not about that at all. If anything my Shepard is glad to make this horrific choice so that someone else doesn't have to. But she'll also have to live with it, which is basically my whole point.

#45154
Akernis
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 12:28

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frudi wrote...

Akernis wrote...

The Reaper would always come through the batarian space, the Alpha relay would just have given them a means of quickly reaching the rest of the galaxy after killing the batarians.

Yes and no. They would enter through the Bahak system, but from there they would immediately spread out through the galaxy. The Batarians would therefore face just a fragment of the Reapers' full force, at least giving them a chance to hold out for a while and maybe join their forces with the rest of the species. As things turned out, the Batarians were literally sacrificed to buy the galaxy a useless 6 months.

If the Reapers wanted to spread out before hitting the batarians which we don't know if they would. Besides while I agree with you that the less Reaper's to fight the better even a "fraction" of the Reapers total strengh would easily wide the batarians out, we have no idea how many Reapers there actually are.

Also the batarians are a rogue state that chance that any race would come to their aid if the Reapers also invaded their worlds would be very very small.

In short no matter what happened as far as I see it the batarians were doomed the second the Reapers arrived from that direction.

Modifié par Akernis, 28 juillet 2012 - 12:41 .

#45155
shepard1038
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 12:31

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The Leviathan supposedly indoctrinated batarians that leaved the batarian planet vulnerable.

#45156
lillitheris
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 12:35

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PMC65 wrote...

lillitheris - You are cracking me up. My reasons for not wanting trials has been duly noted. As such, I really have nothing to add. If you would like to post what you would deem necessary for the future of the Mass Effect galaxy after the reaper wars ... please do.


I did. (I have this bad habit of trying to actually discuss stuff on discussion boards rather than avoid engaging people. It gets me in no end of trouble.)

More specifically, I just clarified that what I want to happen and what will happen are two different things, because your response seemed to mix the two. So to turn around, when you say that you do not want trials, does that mean that you as a person do not, or you as an author do not?

Modifié par lillitheris, 28 juillet 2012 - 12:53 .

#45157
Akernis
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 12:40

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@ frudi: I surrender the agument, we don't see eye to eye here and am not really in a mood to dicuss it further. Lets stop while it is in good spirit. 

PMC65 wrote...
Akernis - Poor guys ... They miss out on the bonding that starts within the womb. I've watched my sister-in-laws during that time and it is amazing. There are some downsides (morning sickness, discomfort, labor) but feeling the baby move inside and knowing that your body is not only growing but protecting a little being that is a part of you? That's a miracle.

I do not deny that, the bolded part especially, though will never experience that myself.
Kaelis Shepard would appreciate that with Liara and be there with and for her Image IPB

lillitheris wrote...

Oh, I like the idea. I just don’t think it’s going to happen to a huge degree. Cf. WWI, “The War to End All Wars”. For that reason, I do not find such a story inherently interesting (=compelling).

Okay, I see what you mean.

lillitheris wrote...
I’ll exaggerate a little in turn and say that there is. Nothing’s ever rainbows, and nothing’s ever grimdark :)

Like I said, I appreciate both of those, too, when well done.

True.

I think I will be going to sleep now, see you guys tomorrow Image IPB

Modifié par Akernis, 28 juillet 2012 - 12:41 .

#45158
Guest_frudi_*
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 12:40

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Akernis wrote...

If the Reapers wanted to spread out before hitting the batarians which we don't know if they would.

That was the whole premise of Arrival and the point of the Alpha relay, wasn't it? That that particular relay would allow the Reapers to reach anywhere in the galaxy. It therefore only makes sense to assume that is exactly what they would do.

Akernis wrote...

Besides while I agree with you that the less Reaper's to fight the better even a "fraction" of the Reapers total strengh would easily wide the batarians out, we have no idea how many Reapers there actually are.

Once the Repaers spread out we don't see them wiping out any single species, not even Earth which is presumably being hit the hardest. I don't buy it that the Batarians would have been wiped out in either case, certainly not as quickly.

Akernis wrote...
Also the batarians are a rogue state that chance that any race would gome to their aid of the Reapers also invaded their worlds would be very very small.

Maybe, maybe not. Personally I think it would be idiotic on the part of the rest of the Council races to ignore Batarians, they did have one of the strongest militaries in the galaxy. I doubt there would have been any significant aid the Council could have offered the Batarians, but I think they would certainly welcome into an alliance against the Reapers.

shepard1038 wrote...

The Leviathan supposedly indoctrinated batarians that leaved the batarian planet vulnerable.

Shepard has no idea about that, therefore it doesn't affect the weight of her decision.
Besides, if anything, delaying the invasion by several months only left the Batarian government and military more compromised by indoctrinated agents, thus speeding up their destruction.


edit:

Akernis wrote...

@ frudi: I surrender the agument, we don't see eye to eye here and am not really in a mood to dicuss it further. Lets stop while it is in good spirit.

Well, I just posted this at the same time you did... didn't mean to seem like I want to get the last word in. We can drop the topic, even though I think we're all mature enough to keep the discussion civil ;) 

Modifié par frudi, 28 juillet 2012 - 12:48 .

#45159
lillitheris
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 12:47

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frudi wrote...

What Shepard did was trap all the Reapers in Batarian space, thus ensuring their destruction, to buy the rest of the galaxy some time. They might have died in the end anyway, but at least they would have had a fighting chance.


If they had access to the Alpha relay, the Reapers would have gotten to the rest of the batarian space faster, too. As it was, they had to fly through conventionally—that means that it took them at least very close to the 6 months to get to the first batarian system with a relay (and therefore likely the first batarian system period), from the remains of Bahak. As soon as they got to another relay, they would have started spreading out.

I just don’t see it, sorry. I’ll leave this particular topic at this point, too.

Modifié par lillitheris, 28 juillet 2012 - 12:50 .

#45160
shepard1038
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 12:50

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No, i meant that the Leviathan is to blame too for the fall of the batarians. If Shepard haven't delayed the invasion. Liara wouldn't have found the blueprints for the crucible. So the reapers have won. A fall of a planet is nothing compared to the fall of a galaxy.

Modifié par shepard1038, 28 juillet 2012 - 12:51 .

#45161
Guest_frudi_*
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 01:03

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lillitheris, yes, they would have gotten to the rest of Batarian space faster too. But that's irrelevant, it's not like the Batarians (or anyone else for that matter) did anything to prepare for the war in those 6 months.
For Batarians it's basically a choice between:
a.) getting hit by an overwhelming force in a couple of months and being switfly wiped out
b.) facing a far smaller force right now and having a fighting chance to survive

All I argue is that b.) is a far preferred choice for the Batarians as it's the only one that gives them any kind of hope, but Shepard forced a.) on them.

shepard1038: again, Shepard had no idea anyone would find a miracle weapon to defeat the Reapers. For all we've been told, a conventional victory against the Reapers was always impossible, so I'm not even sure what we're supposed to make of sacrificing Bahak and Batarians for what we're supposed to assume is a lost cause anyway. But that's even more off-topic...

#45162
CrimsonN7
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 01:04

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This page needs more blue:whistle:

Image IPB

Image IPB

Image IPB

Modifié par CrimsonN7, 28 juillet 2012 - 01:04 .

#45163
Guest_frudi_*
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 01:06

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CrimsonN7 wrote...

This page needs more blue:whistle:

Image IPB

Since we now have it, might as well use it:
Image IPB

:lol::lol:

#45164
Obsidian Gryphon
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 01:26

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On the Batarians. I think even if the Alpha relay was not destroyed and the Reapers spread out, thwy would still suffer overwhelming loses due to the fact that their exposure to indoctrination was years earlier than anyone else. Decimantion from within. There's no way they could fight against that when they wouldn't even know who's friend, who's foe.

#45165
CrimsonN7
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 01:54

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Image IPB

Hehe sorry British sheps out there but if it's any consolation if it was an Irish shep it would have probably been too drunk to respond:P

Modifié par CrimsonN7, 28 juillet 2012 - 01:55 .

#45166
Ravii
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 01:59

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It doesn't belong in here but what the heck.

Image IPB

Obi was so right about this.

I agree Crimson more blue.

Image IPB

Modifié par Ravii, 28 juillet 2012 - 02:02 .

#45167
PMC65
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 02:08

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lillitheris wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

lillitheris - You are cracking me up. My reasons for not wanting trials has been duly noted. As such, I really have nothing to add. If you would like to post what you would deem necessary for the future of the Mass Effect galaxy after the reaper wars ... please do.


I did. (I have this bad habit of trying to actually discuss stuff on discussion boards rather than avoid engaging people. It gets me in no end of trouble.)

More specifically, I just clarified that what I want to happen and what will happen are two different things, because your response seemed to mix the two. So to turn around, when you say that you do not want trials, does that mean that you as a person do not, or you as an author do not?


As a person - no trials / as an author - it gets dirty Image IPB

#45168
shepard1038
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 02:48

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Even after the reapers are defeated is still a dire situation. Because Hackett leaved the Sol System and went to the rendezvous point. Which we can believe it has medical supplies, food, Water, weapons, ect. But communications (I think) go out for a few hours. So Hackett doesn't know if the reapers are defeated or not so he has to keep the fleets ready to not get attacked by surprise by the reapers. 

Which means that he can't send supplies to earth and organize rescue teams. Which means that shepard could end up sitting on the rubble for hours and even if communications don't go out. Earth is still hours away. And add to that the Citadel has civilians so you need to rescue them and they may be injured civilians and soldiers on earth. And i don't think earth has enough medical supplies. And you need places to put the wounded. So you can treat them. Thoughts?

Modifié par shepard1038, 28 juillet 2012 - 02:53 .

#45169
Thessaly77
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 02:48

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PMC65 wrote...

Akernis wrote...

PMC65 wrote...
I still worry that EW Shepard curing the genophage will bite her children's children in the butt!

If EW's children are asari that might be some time in coming Image IPB

Wait, wasn't EW the one who did not want children? you are really confusing me today Image IPB


EW Shepard has no desire to have children with Liara.

I have said that EW would like a child of her own. A child that would have features of her parents ... maybe even laugh like her mother, pout like her father. She would like to feel that child move in her stomach. She would want to have (carry, birth & raise) a child of her own. But no blue babies, which is fine since *Liara will not desire children until a few centuries later. The blue baby comments made in-game are these two joking with each other and I find it cute,

*This applies only to my headcanon and others may have Liara wanting children with Shepard.


This is extremely confusing, do you mean that your Shepard has no desire either to stay with Liara since she does not want to have children with her, but wants to have children of her own? I assume you are saying the above in the context that Liara is your LI, and down the line when your Shepard is ready to have children she will go off and have them with someone else. :blink:

#45170
karmensandiego
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 03:00

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^^ AWWW YEAH^^ :D

[/quote]

OMIGOD!  SHE'S ONE  OF US!!!  ALI UNDERSTANDS!!!

Oh jees... PMC, the next time you see Ali please do not hit on her with a cheesy line about omni tools! <_<

#45171
PMC65
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 03:10

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Thessaly77 wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

Akernis wrote...

PMC65 wrote...
I still worry that EW Shepard curing the genophage will bite her children's children in the butt!

If EW's children are asari that might be some time in coming Image IPB

Wait, wasn't EW the one who did not want children? you are really confusing me today Image IPB


EW Shepard has no desire to have children with Liara.

I have said that EW would like a child of her own. A child that would have features of her parents ... maybe even laugh like her mother, pout like her father. She would like to feel that child move in her stomach. She would want to have (carry, birth & raise) a child of her own. But no blue babies, which is fine since *Liara will not desire children until a few centuries later. The blue baby comments made in-game are these two joking with each other and I find it cute,

*This applies only to my headcanon and others may have Liara wanting children with Shepard.


This is extremely confusing, do you mean that your Shepard has no desire either to stay with Liara since she does not want to have children with her, but wants to have children of her own? I assume you are saying the above in the context that Liara is your LI, and down the line when your Shepard is ready to have children she will go off and have them with someone else. :blink:


I'm always amazed how people do not think that Shepard herself would want to children of her own. If she were with Kaidan no problem ... but with Liara her ovaries are null and void. Image IPB

Why would Shepard have to leave Liara to have her own children? Women have children without males in their life through artificial insemination today. Would that no longer be an option in the future? And if people see Shepard loving Liara's children why not the reverse? Liara would see Shepard's children through 10+ generations potentially ... wouldn't that be amazing?

EDIT: Keep in mind that in my headcanon Liara does not desire children in this stage of her life. She will become a matron in another two centuries when that desire to nest and have children hits her. Others see her as moving into that stage almost 250 years early. To each his own.

Modifié par PMC65, 28 juillet 2012 - 03:17 .

#45172
karmensandiego
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 03:27

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PMC65 wrote...

Thessaly77 wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

Akernis wrote...

PMC65 wrote...
I still worry that EW Shepard curing the genophage will bite her children's children in the butt!

If EW's children are asari that might be some time in coming Image IPB

Wait, wasn't EW the one who did not want children? you are really confusing me today Image IPB


EW Shepard has no desire to have children with Liara.

I have said that EW would like a child of her own. A child that would have features of her parents ... maybe even laugh like her mother, pout like her father. She would like to feel that child move in her stomach. She would want to have (carry, birth & raise) a child of her own. But no blue babies, which is fine since *Liara will not desire children until a few centuries later. The blue baby comments made in-game are these two joking with each other and I find it cute,

*This applies only to my headcanon and others may have Liara wanting children with Shepard.


This is extremely confusing, do you mean that your Shepard has no desire either to stay with Liara since she does not want to have children with her, but wants to have children of her own? I assume you are saying the above in the context that Liara is your LI, and down the line when your Shepard is ready to have children she will go off and have them with someone else. :blink:


I'm always amazed how people do not think that Shepard herself would want to children of her own. If she were with Kaidan no problem ... but with Liara her ovaries are null and void. Image IPB

Why would Shepard have to leave Liara to have her own children? Women have children without males in their life through artificial insemination today. Would that no longer be an option in the future? And if people see Shepard loving Liara's children why not the reverse? Liara would see Shepard's children through 10+ generations potentially ... wouldn't that be amazing?

EDIT: Keep in mind that in my headcanon Liara does not desire children in this stage of her life. She will become a matron in another two centuries when that desire to nest and have children hits her. Others see her as moving into that stage almost 250 years early. To each his own.



Shhhh Shhhh Thessaly77... *pat pat*

Do not try to understand the blue baby hater.  There is no understanding of her.  She's like... like Scientology, like the appeal of Justin Bieber, like those two headed turtles... she's inexplicable.

It's best to just let her be with her delusions and just occasionally poke her or throw blue babies at her.

#45173
Guest_frudi_*
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 03:34

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Obsidian Gryphon wrote...

On the Batarians. I think even if the Alpha relay was not destroyed and the Reapers spread out, thwy would still suffer overwhelming loses due to the fact that their exposure to indoctrination was years earlier than anyone else. Decimantion from within. There's no way they could fight against that when they wouldn't even know who's friend, who's foe.

I actually mostly agree with this, though of course Shepard knew nothing about how compromised the Batarian leadership was when she decided to throw them to the wolves Reapers. But after the war, something along these lines will be what she tells herself to help deal with her decision, the same argument also echoed by those close to her.

PMC65 wrote...

I'm always amazed how people do not think that Shepard herself would want to children of her own. If she were with Kaidan no problem ... but with Liara her ovaries are null and void. Image IPB

Why would Shepard have to leave Liara to have her own children? Women have children without males in their life through artificial insemination today. Would that no longer be an option in the future? And if people see Shepard loving Liara's children why not the reverse? Liara would see Shepard's children through 10+ generations potentially ... wouldn't that be amazing?

EDIT: Keep in mind that in my headcanon Liara does not desire children in this stage of her life. She will become a matron in another two centuries when that desire to nest and have children hits her. Others see her as moving into that stage almost 250 years early. To each his own.

Very good points actually. In my headcanon Shepard and Liara do end up also having human babies ;).

As for Liara and her matron stage... as you said, to each his own. I think there is enough indications in canon to suggest Liara is ready to settle down for good with Shepard, which for me includes starting a family. It is however unusual for an asari so young and there are some, hm, 'issues' with her transition to a matron =]

#45174
PMC65
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 03:34

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karmensandiego - Are you saying that women who want to have their own children would not be with Liara? What would it be like if Liara was there when Shepard had a baby? She would be a cute coach and teaching her how to brush a little girl's hair would be priceless.

EDIT: Top

And for those who also want blue babies ... why not a mix in that household? Both have a child? Loving Liara does not mean Shepard kisses her maternal instinct or ovaries away. That's all I'm saying.

frudi - A mix in your Shepard & Liara's household? That's sweet! Image IPB

Image IPB

Modifié par PMC65, 28 juillet 2012 - 03:41 .

#45175
shepard1038
Posté 28 juillet 2012 - 03:40

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Where is the b.b.b.b. when you need them?
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