56469 réponses à ce sujet

[Batlass8]

@mavqt: Lol, thanks for the pic!  I just find the random addition of villainous goatees to non-villainous characters (or characters who suddenly and unprecedently become villainous *cough*CassCain*cough*) to be funny.  For some reason.  Maybe because Snidley Whiplash was so funny?  I don't know.  Sorry, LizardViking!

lillitheris wrote...

Batlass8 wrote...

I think the only point that was trying to be made is that of ME3, there is no straight human love interest for a female Shepard (from a meta perspective).

I disagree with that perspective.  It's...let's say 'incorrect.'  Kaidan is male, female Shepard is female.  That is, by definition, a straight relationship.  If anyone thinks that the supposed 'bi-ness' somehow invalidates that relationship, they need some serious self-reflection is my opinion.

I apologize if what I wrote came off as implying that a m/f couple in which one or both partners identifies as bisexual is not a real or valid relationship.  It was most certainly not what I intended, and not what I believe. 

Perhaps it would have been better if I had said that the revelation that Kaidan is bisexual and the removal of Jacob as an LI means that there is no human male LI in Mass Effect 3 who expresses a romantic interest only in females.  I used "straight" as shorthand, perhaps unthinkingly.  (Again, from a meta perspective, since it's true that in a female Shepard's playthrough there aren't any hints that Kaidan is attracted to men). 

JDee3 wrote...

Batlass8 wrote...

Since my straight Shepard who romanced Kaidan left him for Liara in game three

I didn't know that was possible ._.

Lol, neither did she.  Or Kaidan, for that matter.  I certainly didn't see it coming.  :innocent: 

But yes, it's totally possible to start romancing Liara in ME3, and the whole progression is kind of sweet.  (Although not overly different from the established romance, unfortunately).  Of course, it occurs to me know that you might be joking, so if you are, just pretend that I got the joke right off.

Modifié par Batlass8, 04 août 2012 - 08:21 .

[TheDonk95]

[quote]TheDonk95 wrote...

[quote]Han Shot First wrote...

Best backside in Mass Effect, in my opinion.

[/quote]
What the hell, Bioware...
[/quote]


Disappointed that Bioware completed a partially nude model for her, or that it was obscured during the romance scene?[/quote]

Neither, it's just... I like Bioware's style with the ME girls..

[mumba]

The "politically correct" term for Asari is mono-gendered, but let's face it. When we all saw the Asari for the first time we instantly thought they were women. As far as I'm concerned they have nothing that could possibly make them resemble a Human male, but the Asari have tons of characteristics that make them resemble Human females. And unlike the Salarian and Turian in Eternity (ME2) The Asari resemble Humans more than any other species, obviously.

[mumba]

mavqt wrote...

Am I the only that saw the scene where Kaidan flirts with Femshep? Of cause he finds human women attractive.

Also when he walks into Chora's den for the first time. "it's got quite the err, view." 

[Batlass8]

@frudi: IIRC, he mentions going out with a doctor in his post-Horizon email, but doesn't mention gender.

[Han Shot First]

I don't really understand why Liara says that she is "technically" not a woman.

I think she was talking about the cultural views of the Asari, rather than Asari biology.

As a monogendered species words like 'male' and 'female' would not have much meaning to them, as it would be a foreign concept. This would be especially true if all life on Thessia follows a monosexual or asexual model, and their first experience with sexually dimorphic life was after exploring the cosmos. Of course that last sentence is entirely speculative, as we know nothing about the animal kingdom on Thessia.

Biologically the Asari are female however, despite reproducing by a form of parthogenesis. Besides being told that the Asari are an all female species in the codex (the codex is canon), in biology females are defined by the production of ova. For mammalian species females are further distinguished by the presence of mammary glands for the nursing of young, and with the exception of archaic mammals like the Platypus, by giving birth to live young. Both are true for the Asari, so I don't think the codex entry that notes that the Asari are 'all female' conflicts with biology. Even reproduction by parthogenesis does not necessarily conflict with being biologically female, as there are species on Earth where females can reproduce via parthogenesis. Hammerhead sharks and Komodo dragons are two examples.

Neither, it's just... I like Bioware's style with the ME girls..

The future is awesome.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 04 août 2012 - 08:40 .

[Akernis]

Mumba1511 wrote...
The "politically correct" term for Asari is mono-gendered, 

Yes as in one-gended, female. Being mono-gendered has nothing to do with not being a woman it simply means that (in this case) there are no males.

frudi wrote...
Technically, or rather biologically, she's not actually female either

And why is that? what exactly stops her from being female? There is no clue given anywhere that i have seen that gives any indication of her being anything other than female, from physiology to behaviour and personality.
Codex: "the asari are an all-female race..."

Edit: ninja'ed

Modifié par Akernis, 04 août 2012 - 08:46 .

[Mavqt]

@batlass
It was my pleasure.



Anyone just love this scene/picture/whatever from the 'flashback' part of the ending?

Have to be honest, that's when the tears started flowing for me. xD

[Akernis]

frudi wrote...
Why would asari consider themselves female?

Because they are? Unless all life on Thesisa were mono-gended they would know that there is a diffirence and know which gender they themselves were. Even then after having lived in the galaxy for literally thousands of years with species with both genders the distinction would be more than apparent.

frudi wrote...
Because they look similar to the members of the female sex of a minor species they only first met 30 years ago? 

The asari have scientist, they can't have failed to notice that they can concieve like only female member of every other species we know of in the galaxy, the fact that they physically resembles humans more than those others changes nothing about that.

frudi wrote...
And they only appear to use female pronouns and forms of words when referring to themselves because that's how our translators translate their language.

That might very well be so, or that their entire language consist of only femininum words (or what we would qualitfy as femininum words).

frudi wrote...

Akernis wrote...

Mumba1511 wrote...
The "politically correct" term for Asari is mono-gendered, 

Yes as in one-gended, female. Being mono-gendered has nothing to do with not being a woman it simply means that (in this case) there are no males.

No, single-sex means a single sex, that doesn't mean that one sex is either male or female.

Yes as I said, one-gender or single-sex as you say. Which in this happens to be female, unless you know some other gender I am not currently aware of that fits all the criteria for an asari beyond female. 

There is literally nothing about the asari that prevents them form being considered female. Not one thing. Thus I would say that they are female.  

I am sorry if I sound a bit hostile, that is not my intent I just can't see where you are going with this, sure the asari might not make a big deal out of only having one gender since they can mate with either, but the fact that they does not care does not make them any less female.

Modifié par Akernis, 04 août 2012 - 09:02 .

[kumquats]

Akernis wrote...

I don't really understand why Liara says that she is "technically" not a woman.

Maybe Liara means, that she knows that her physical appearence, mean for other aliens, that she is the equivalent to a female of that race. But that asari don't understand the concept of gender identity.

Or she means something else, which I'd rather not discuss.

[Han Shot First]

frudi wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Biologically the Asari are female however, despite reproducing by a form of parthogenesis. Besides being told that the Asari are an all female species in the codex (the codex is canon), in biology females are defined by the production of ova. For mammalian species females are further distinguished by the presence of mammary glands for the nursing of young, and with the exception of archaic mammals like the Platypus, by giving birth to live young. Both are true for the Asari, so I don't think the codex entry that notes that the Asari are 'all female' conflicts with biology. Even reproduction by parthogenesis does not necessarily conflict with being biologically female, as there are species on Earth where females can reproduce via parthogenesis. Hammerhead sharks and Komodo dragons are two examples.

Asari are not females. Using our definition of the biological differences between sexes is useless because our definitions are based on our ideas of differentiating between two sexes. If anything, asari should be considered a separate sex.

As for the codex, it is written by humans so it reflects human views of the asari. Asari on the other hand don't consider themselves female. I'll take Liara's word over a human-centric codex any day

I think we'll have to agree to disagree then.

The Asari would be female if for no other reason than they are defined as such by the official game canon, whether or not we agree with how they were defined in the codex. But beyond that they also share all the physical characteristics of mammalian females. They've got a birth canal and bear and give birth to live young, and mammary glands from which to nurse them.

Culturally they're also female, even if they don't define themselves as such. While universal translators are being used, if the Asari used gender neutral terms to refer to themselves and their life stages, presumably it would be translated into gender neutral words as well. Matriarch might be rendered as 'elder' instead for example, and 'huntress' as 'hunter.'

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

lillitheris wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

He finds Liara attractive, …

Or simply pretty, if there’s no attraction, merely…art appreciation.

Oh come on! You know Kaidan was just being too much of a gentleman to outright admit he found her hot.

[Akernis]

@ Han: agreed, that is what I mean, just not that eloquent today.

Modifié par Akernis, 04 août 2012 - 09:06 .

[Han Shot First]

On a side note, I like that Bioware made the most powerful and enlightened species in the galaxy an all female one. Most of human history has been one of male dominance, and it is kind of interesting to turn that upside down.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 04 août 2012 - 09:06 .

[Mavqt]

^True that!

[mumba]

mavqt wrote...

@batlass
It was my pleasure.



Anyone just love this scene/picture/whatever from the 'flashback' part of the ending?

Have to be honest, that's when the tears started flowing for me. xD

My favorite picture if liara. Tears were shed from me aswell. This picture stuck with me throughout my depression of the ending. lol

[lillitheris]

Batlass8 wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Batlass8 wrote...

I think the only point that was trying to be made is that of ME3, there is no straight human love interest for a female Shepard (from a meta perspective).

I disagree with that perspective.  It's...let's say 'incorrect.'  Kaidan is male, female Shepard is female.  That is, by definition, a straight relationship.  If anyone thinks that the supposed 'bi-ness' somehow invalidates that relationship, they need some serious self-reflection is my opinion.

I apologize if what I wrote came off as implying that a m/f couple in which one or both partners identifies as bisexual is not a real or valid relationship.  It was most certainly not what I intended, and not what I believe.

Not at all. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that you were saying that. It’s the attitude I often see behind the argument.

Perhaps it would have been better if I had said that the revelation that Kaidan is bisexual and the removal of Jacob as an LI means that there is no human male LI in Mass Effect 3 who expresses a romantic interest only in females.  I used "straight" as shorthand, perhaps unthinkingly.  (Again, from a meta perspective, since it's true that in a female Shepard's playthrough there aren't any hints that Kaidan is attracted to men).

Right; I disagree both with the statement that Kaidan is necessarily bisexual (essentially I view it as three different Kaidan characters—straight, gay, bi—not a single character), and that he would somehow be a worse option for a female Shepard if he was. This is one of those things I literally just cannot understand.

That said, f/m relationships for female Shepards are absurdly lacking in comparison to f/f, and male Shepard, but that topic’s been hashed many times.

…

@all: ‘Female’ in the context of a mammalian monogendered species refers to definitive female traits such as being able to carry and give birth to a child. A monogendered species that was not all-female would reproduce by cloning or whatever. In all the meaningful senses of the word for humans, asari are an all-female species.

Modifié par lillitheris, 04 août 2012 - 09:25 .

[Akernis]

frudi wrote...
And why would they define themselves within the two sexes of other species?

Because they perfectly fit with all the criteria of one of those two sexes.

frudi wrote...
What if there's species with three sexes in the galaxy

But there isn't, at least not as far as we are aware.

frudi wrote...
would you say you are a member of one of their three sexes?

Yes I would if that gender perfectly overlapped with my mentality, physology and behaviour patterns. to stay in Mass Effect lets call this race rachni and the three sexes used: asari, turian and geth. I would assume that their gender (turian) and mine (male) were precisely the same, just with a diffirent name if every thing that applied to a turian rachni (as opposed to an asari rachni or a geth rachni) also applied to me as opposed to a female human.

frudi wrote...
And those scientist would also notice that they can fertilise other asari, something that males typically do. They would also notice that their particular form of reproduction is distinctly different from those species with sexual reproduction (if those exist on Thessia), so it would not make sense to categorise themselves by criteria of those species.

They can only fertilise other asari however, but all species and genders can fertilise them, making the asari always the one to carry the child.
That they reproduce via pathogenesis rather than sex does not make them any less female, IMO.

frudi wrote...

That might very well be so, or that their entire language consist of only femininum words (or what we would qualitfy as femininum words).

If their language only consists of feminine forms of words, than by definition their language doesn't differentiate between genders, hence it is meaningless to claim it is using feminine forms.  

Han explained that one better than me, if they only used neautral pronouns they would probably have been translated as such by trasnlation equipment rather than using the feminine forms.

Though I propose we agree to disagree, I firmly believes that asari are female and you do not caragorise them as such, lets end this in good spirit

Modifié par Akernis, 04 août 2012 - 09:31 .

[Han Shot First]

Liara on top.

[Mavqt]

How long did you wait just to do that, han?

"25th post as come, now quick post!"

Modifié par mavqt, 04 août 2012 - 09:32 .