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Liara Fans: keep your love blue and true!

Débuté par Grunt Lord , juin 13 2011 05:04

56469 réponses à ce sujet

#46176
Akernis
Posté 04 août 2012 - 09:33

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mavqt wrote...

How long did you wait just to do that, han?

"25th post as come, now quick post!"

Who complains? Image IPB, he played his cards well.

#46177
Mavqt
Posté 04 août 2012 - 09:36

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I'm not complaining, It made me giggle

Now we need Liara underneath on the 25th post. :D

#46178
Guest_frudi_*
Posté 04 août 2012 - 09:38

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Akernis wrote...

Yes as I said, one-gender or single-sex as you say. Which in this happens to be female, unless you know some other gender I am not currently aware of that fits all the criteria for an asari beyond female. 

There is literally nothing about the asari that prevents them form being considered female. Not one thing. Thus I would say that they are female.  

I am sorry if I sound a bit hostile, that is not my intent I just can't see where you are going with this, sure the asari might not make a big deal out of only having one gender since they can mate with either, but the fact that they does not care does not make them any less female.

Indeed I do know of another sex, the one that all asari are members of (admittedly I do not know how they call it).
Naturally, species with multiple sexes would tend to want to cram asari into their own definitions of sexes (see this discussion ;)), but asari themselves would not consider themselves as such.

And don't worry, I do not find your tone hostile... :)

Han Solo Wrote...

The Asari would be female if for no other reason than they are defined as such by the official game canon, whether or not we agree with how they were defined in the codex. But beyond that they also share all the physical characteristics of mammalian females. They've got a birth canal and bear and give birth to live young, and mammary glands from which to nurse them.

As I said, the codex is written by an anthropocentric bag of di*ks that can't help but anthropomorphise the asari. It naturally reflects the fact that humans consider asari female. Liara herself is quite clear - male/female have no real meaning for asari; and given the context in which she says that she quite clearly means it in regard to biological sex, not societal gender roles.
As for the argument that they're female because they give birth - well, any single-sex species would obviously be able to reproduce. This can only be used to differentiate between sexes if there are more of them. In any case, there are also species, though not mammalian, where males carry and birth the young.

Culturally they're also female, even if they don't define themselves as such. While universal translators are being used, if the Asari used gender neutral terms to refer to themselves and their life stages, presumably it would be translated into gender neutral words as well. Matriarch might be rendered as 'elder' instead for example, and 'huntress' as 'hunter.'

I think translators would be sufficiently advanced by then to apply proper gender pronouns and word forms based on context.
As for asari being culturally female - *cough* Aethyta *cough* ;). But seriously, as I said before, they are not strictly monogendered. They actually recognise separate roles for mother and father, though they obviously don't associate them with different sexes and the differences are subsequently also smaller.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree then.

By all means. I don't really have any problem with us humans referring to asari as female ;). I just think they don't consider themselves as such.

Modifié par frudi, 04 août 2012 - 09:38 .

#46179
Han Shot First
Posté 04 août 2012 - 09:41

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mavqt wrote...

I'm not complaining, It made me giggle

Now we need Liara underneath on the 25th post. :D


Yes we do. Image IPB

By the way I feel like a dork for just noticing that the page count jumps forward one whenever a page fills up, even though the first post of the next page hasn't been created yet.

For example when are now on 1848, and when someone gets to the last post in this page, if the Liara thread is viewed from the main Character and Romance forum it will display 1849 pages. Clicking on page 1849 triggers an error message though, because the first post hasn't been created yet.

If I had noticed that ages ago I wouldn't have been caught topless so often. It would have saved me quite a few edits. How embarrasing. Image IPB

#46180
Guest_frudi_*
Posté 04 août 2012 - 09:47

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Akernis wrote...

frudi wrote...

And why would they define themselves within the two sexes of other species?

Because they perfectly fit with all the criteria of one of those two sexes.

Correction - they fit perfectly with all the human criteria for one of those two sexes. Do you think asari consider themselves quite as similar to Krogan females? To Salarian females? To Rachni females?
You keep thinking like a human, understandable though as that is. Try thinking of it from an asari perspective ;) 

Modifié par frudi, 04 août 2012 - 09:48 .

#46181
rubynorman
Posté 04 août 2012 - 09:54

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mavqt wrote...

I'm not complaining, It made me giggle

Now we need Liara underneath on the 25th post. :D

Let's see ME1 romance scene, tho I dont have a good screenshot

But I like this Liara on top more :P

Image IPB

Topped by ~FolksNeedHeroes

#46182
Mavqt
Posté 04 août 2012 - 10:07

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Image IPB
Not good enough for the 25th but still good!


OH and @ Batlass, another for you!
http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing

Modifié par mavqt, 04 août 2012 - 10:12 .

#46183
rubynorman
Posté 04 août 2012 - 10:17

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^ They are floating in the air in that scene right? Technically not underneath :P

#46184
mumba
Posté 04 août 2012 - 10:19

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mavqt wrote...

http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing

That moustache actually suits Ashley :lol:.

#46185
Akernis
Posté 04 août 2012 - 10:19

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frudi wrote...
Correction - they fit perfectly with all the human criteria for one of those two sexes. 

Okay they perfectly fit with every single human criteria for females, and as such I would consider them females for all intents and purposes. Hell we always and only call her and her entire race "she" and "her" rather than any non-feminine pronoun for goddess sake, as does any other species, including themselves. 
And beyond a single line Liara says in ME1 they are also displayed as such everytime we see them. Beyond Liara's "I am not technically a woman" there is no point I can recall where they ever refer to themselves as anything but female. Personally I think that line makes no sense since it, in my mind at least, contradict how we are shown the asari in every other instance. I think that line was thrown in for A) make the asari seem more alien despite being portrayed exactly as human females in both personality and biology everywhere but that line, and B) to make the F/F romance with her seem less "wrong" and give an excuse to persue it, which I obviously disagree with since there is nothing wrong with romancing her with a Femshepard no matter whether she is "technically" a woman not.

frudi wrote...
Do you think asari consider themselves quite as similar to Krogan females? To Salarian females? To Rachni females?

Biologically yes, Krogan females concieve, as does salarian females and rachni queens, even if the last two lay eggs rather than birth living young, the primary characteristic of a female is to concieve, for every race, which asari also does.

frudi wrote...
You keep thinking like a human, understandable though as that is. Try thinking of it from an asari perspective Image IPB 

And why not? asari seem to think exactly like us, Liara behave perfectly human-like from everything from appaarent thought-process to emotions, morals and motivations.
But if that were not the case then none of us could think like an asari, since we are not asari. No matter how much we try; not me, not you. But asari are build on a human template (and I mean out-of universe, since in-universe they simply happened to share an unnaturally close resemblance on practically every level) so it makes sense to use that as an very accurate comparison.
 
But I think we are talking past each other, I am talking about a biological absolute, and you are talking about a cultural view, if I am correct. 

But I have already suggested agreeing to disagree on the previous page (no matter how bad I am at following my own adviceImage IPB) so I concede the agument, I have to get back to my writting about LiaraImage IPB.

Modifié par Akernis, 04 août 2012 - 10:38 .

#46186
lillitheris
Posté 04 août 2012 - 10:41

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frudi wrote...

As for the argument that they're female because they give birth - well, any single-sex species would obviously be able to reproduce.


Reproduction ≠ giving birth.

Also, I know you didn’t mean it that way but when you say that asari can’t be considered culturally female because of Aethyta’s behavior, you’re treading on some really thin ice. I mean, ‘culturally female’ is a nonsense argument anyway, but you probably don’t want to start trying to define what that might be…

(Edit: like that one genius somewhere who argued that asari exhibit ‘male traits’ such as having scientists…)

Modifié par lillitheris, 04 août 2012 - 10:42 .

#46187
Mavqt
Posté 04 août 2012 - 10:47

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^Let us steer clear of that.

#46188
ArawnNox
Posté 04 août 2012 - 11:07

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*wanders into thread, sees current topic of discussion*
Personally, my favorite in-universe weigh-in on the Asari physiology was during the confrontation scene in ME1.
Kaiden: "I didn't know that you preferred other women."
Liara: "I'm not technically female."
Kaiden: "But you look... oh never mind!"

#46189
Guest_frudi_*
Posté 04 août 2012 - 11:22

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Akernis wrote...

Hell we always and only call her and her entire race "she" and "her" rather than any non-feminine pronoun, as does any other species, including themselves.

That's just for convenience; we are actually experiencing the language through two filters - first through the in-universe translators that I already explained would feminise the asari language and secondly by playing a game that would just sound weird if asari were referred to as it (or even worse if Bioware invented whole new pronouns :P)

...there is no point I can recall where they ever refer to themselves as anything but female.

And I don't recall them actually ever referring to themselves as female. On the other hand Liara rejects the notion on at least two occasions that I can think of.

Biologically yes, Krogan females concieve, as does salarian females and rachni queens, even if the last two lay eggs rather than birth living young, the primary characteristic of a female is to concieve, for every race, which asari also does.

Aside for carrying the young asari have little in common with the females of other species they've encountered (aside from humans), mostly because those other females are very varied. To a single-sex species it would not be at all as self-evident as to us that they should group themselves in with one sex based primarily on the ability to conceive and carry young. I think that they would simply consider themselves as a separate sex.

But if that were not the case then none of us could think like an asari, since we are not asari. No matter how much we try; not me, not you.

No, we can not think exactly like an asari. But we can make an effort to recognise our own biases and try to imagine how the lack of those biases might give another species a different perspective.

lillitheris wrote...

Reproduction ≠ giving birth.

I am aware of that, it's just that the argument was originally about asari giving birth, similar to humans, I just expanded it to reproduction in general (because even other ME species don't all give live birth).

Also, I know you didn’t mean it that way but when you say that asari can’t be considered culturally female because of Aethyta’s behavior, you’re treading on some really thin ice. I mean, ‘culturally female’ is a nonsense argument anyway, but you probably don’t want to start trying to define what that might be…

(Edit: like that one genius somewhere who argued that asari exhibit ‘male traits’ such as having scientists…)

Again, by using "culturally female" I was only responding to a previous argument that used that phrase. And I didn't actually mean that asari in general couldn't be considered such because of Aethyta, but that not all asari act as femininely as some here claim. I probably should have been clearer, re-reading that sentence in my previous post now I can see why my intention came across wrong.

Akernis wrote...

But I have already suggested agreeing to disagree on the previous page (no matter how bad I am at following my own adviceImage IPB)

Yeah, sorry about not dropping this and dragging you back in :innocent:. It's harder to drop a subject when other people also keep chiming in ;). Besides, I think we're all being very civil and respectful in this discussion; I don't think we should necessarily fear to discuss things we don't automatically all agree on.

Modifié par frudi, 04 août 2012 - 11:36 .

#46190
Y3Y00
Posté 04 août 2012 - 11:51

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Mumba1511 wrote...

The "politically correct" term for Asari is mono-gendered, but let's face it. When we all saw the Asari for the first time we instantly thought they were women. As far as I'm concerned they have nothing that could possibly make them resemble a Human male, but the Asari have tons of characteristics that make them resemble Human females. And unlike the Salarian and Turian in Eternity (ME2) The Asari resemble Humans more than any other species, obviously.


You haven't seen their genitals yet... I suspect that it's radically different from what we expect... but why would they even need ones? Not sure if it's mentioned in Mass Effect lore, but their reproduction method does not require phyiscal contact. Okay, I digress and that's a particularly pecuilar discussion. Thanks, bye.:P

#46191
mumba
Posté 04 août 2012 - 11:56

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Y3Y00 wrote...

Mumba1511 wrote...

The "politically correct" term for Asari is mono-gendered, but let's face it. When we all saw the Asari for the first time we instantly thought they were women. As far as I'm concerned they have nothing that could possibly make them resemble a Human male, but the Asari have tons of characteristics that make them resemble Human females. And unlike the Salarian and Turian in Eternity (ME2) The Asari resemble Humans more than any other species, obviously.


You haven't seen their genitals yet... I suspect that it's radically different from what we expect... but why would they even need ones? Not sure if it's mentioned in Mass Effect lore, but their reproduction method does not require phyiscal contact. Okay, I digress and that's a particularly pecuilar discussion. Thanks, bye.:P

I doubt the romance scenes would be as... Intimate as they are with Liara if she didn't have Female-like genitals. 

#46192
shepdog77
Posté 05 août 2012 - 12:02

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Liara fans, check out this video.

Apparently Liara isn't as faithful as any of us thought. :unsure:

#46193
mumba
Posté 05 août 2012 - 12:04

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shepdog77 wrote...

Liara fans, check out this video.

Apparently Liara isn't as faithful as any of us thought. :unsure:

What the actually F*** did I just watch? haha 

#46194
Guest_frudi_*
Posté 05 août 2012 - 12:05

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Y3Y00 wrote...

You haven't seen their genitals yet... I suspect that it's radically different from what we expect... but why would they even need ones? Not sure if it's mentioned in Mass Effect lore, but their reproduction method does not require phyiscal contact. Okay, I digress and that's a particularly pecuilar discussion. Thanks, bye.:P

Actually, we do get to see their genitals. Just...
*shudders* hell no, I'm not giving doozer, devil and ananas more excuses, not when I barely just got over the nightmares :pinched:

#46195
shepdog77
Posté 05 août 2012 - 12:07

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Mumba1511 wrote...

shepdog77 wrote...

Liara fans, check out this video.

Apparently Liara isn't as faithful as any of us thought. :unsure:

What the actually F*** did I just watch? haha 


Lol, those person's Mass Effect vids are hilarious.

Modifié par shepdog77, 05 août 2012 - 12:14 .

#46196
Mavqt
Posté 05 août 2012 - 12:10

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frudi wrote...

Y3Y00 wrote...

You haven't seen their genitals yet... I suspect that it's radically different from what we expect... but why would they even need ones? Not sure if it's mentioned in Mass Effect lore, but their reproduction method does not require phyiscal contact. Okay, I digress and that's a particularly pecuilar discussion. Thanks, bye.:P

Actually, we do get to see their genitals. Just...
*shudders* hell no, I'm not giving doozer, devil and ananas more excuses, not when I barely just got over the nightmares :pinched:


Too late. (Waits for the banshee pic)^_^

#46197
shepdog77
Posté 05 août 2012 - 12:15

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mavqt wrote...

Too late. (Waits for the banshee pic)^_^


Incoming.

*snip proof of asari female parts.*

Modifié par shepdog77, 05 août 2012 - 12:26 .

#46198
Mavqt
Posté 05 août 2012 - 12:17

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ArawnNox wrote...

*wanders into thread, sees current topic of discussion*
Personally, my favorite in-universe weigh-in on the Asari physiology was during the confrontation scene in ME1.
Kaiden: "I didn't know that you preferred other women."
Liara: "I'm not technically female."
Kaiden: "But you look... oh never mind!"


He did seem to have a 'agressive' attitude to Shep appearing 'gay'. Those words being used loosely.

At least is the way he spoke.

#46199
Mavqt
Posté 05 août 2012 - 12:18

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shepdog77 wrote...

mavqt wrote...

Too late. (Waits for the banshee pic)^_^


Incoming.



Needs more Omni-tool.

Edit:

^Worst top pic ever. :C:C:C

Edit: part 2

Hopefully this fixes it :C

http://desmond.image...png&res=landing

Modifié par mavqt, 05 août 2012 - 12:25 .

#46200
Guest_frudi_*
Posté 05 août 2012 - 12:18

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Sigh... *mumbles something about there being no omni-tool at least*

edit: ninjas, ninjas everywhere!

Modifié par frudi, 05 août 2012 - 12:18 .

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