56469 réponses à ce sujet

[KawaiiKatie]

laecraft wrote...

Tell! I want to hear it. I can't promise a debate, but I love to listen.

Okay, well, here's the thing... Bioware tried to play off Liara's fascination and devotion to Shepard as one-size-fits-all, but it definitely is not. If Liara is your lover or your very close friend, her actions make sense. But under some people's circumstances (like mine) Liara very much comes off as a stalker, but the game doesn't address that at all. Both of these things are more than a little discomforting.

First of all, there was the fact that Liara "couldn't let Shepard go" after he died, even though the sum of my interactions with her in ME1 amounted to threatening to throw her in a volcano. In ME2, she acted like she was my Shepard's closest friend, though that couldn't have been further from the truth. Perhaps she only feels close to my Shepard because of the mind-melding, but her utter devotion to a Shepard who threatened to kill her was enough to make me quirk an eyebrow.

Then I learned that she knew about Shepard's resurrection all along, but also neglected to tell his loved ones and family about it. Perhaps understandable, given the secretive nature of Cerberus, but Liara came out of that encounter with trophies. If she's your Shepard's lover, it makes sense that she would treasure them and take care of them... but, again, I threatened to kill her, and romanced someone else. Moreover, my Shepard has a family. Couldn't Liara have sent those trinkets along to my mother? Even if she couldn't tell Hannah Shepard that her child was alive, why wouldn't Liara want to give a momento to a grieving mother? Or a grieving lover, if Ash or Kaidan was Shepard's love-interest? If you romanced Ash or Kaidan, Liara knows how much he or she cared for Shepard, and yet she keeps the piece of Shepard's armour for herself. Liara's devotion to Shepard again makes me quirk an eyebrow.

What caps it for me, however, what makes me really start to call her a "stalker" (on top of everything else) is the fact that Liara kept my dogtags after I refused her offer for drinks. I was trying to stay loyal to Ashley, and I didn't want to do anything that would give anybody the wrong idea. Liara was under orders from Hackett to return those dogtags to me... but she didn't. Because my Shepard turned her down, because my Shepard said, "No, Liara. We're just friends, nothing more," she kept my tags for herself. On top of Shepard's old armour, she has a very respectable Shepard Collection, and I really have to wonder why she needs those things to comfort herself, especially since she only kept them because I turned her away.

So, there it is. As rationally as I can put it. Liara can very much be interpreted as a "stalker" in my game, and I feel that it's a fair assessment. You may disagree, of course, but... that's what makes it fun, I guess!

EDIT: Oh no, I'm sorry Liara fans! I took the ToP spot! I'm sorry. Hopefully this is agreeable? :happy:

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 02 septembre 2011 - 05:54 .

[Kadzin]

laecraft wrote...

Kadzin wrote...

Liara: Hey Shepard!
Shepard: Yes Liara?
Liara: I watch you in your sleep.
Shepard: ...

*snip*

P.S. this is only a joke, please don't take me seriously

That would explain at least why people think of her as such. I was just confused that Liara would be called a stalker of all people, when she treats you rather coldly in ME2 initially, especially if you didn't date her. Her thoughts are on SB, not on Shepard.

Legion would suit the role so much better. Even VS would suit the role better, tracking you down without your knowledge. I suppose VS has an excuse, though - the mission. And it's unclear if VS was tracking Shepard or just investigating the reports. It's a big coincidence, though.

Hell, even Harbinger would suit the role better. Well, I suppose he's got an excuse, too, being the antagonist. But you cannot deny that his attention is unwanted, that he wants Shepard's body, that he's rather presistent, and TIM warns you, too: "Be careful, Shepard. The Collectors will be watching you."

I think the reasoning behind it was that she was the only squadmate that went after Shepard's body and tried to bring him back. Seemes a bit obscessive, especially for those who didn't date Liara.

I do not support such a theory however, I think she showed more dedication then Shepard's Alliance squadmates (Kaidan or Ashley).

Shepard does however poke fun at Liara at some point after SB's death saying: "You're not going to turn into a crepy recluse with information on everyone, are you?"

[Robhuzz]

laecraft wrote...

@KawaiiKatie: I had no idea about those dogtags! She keeps them? Or maybe sends them back to Hackett? That's pretty sneaky of her.

Yes, Liara does say that she couldn't let Shepard go, and it's the strangest thing, because I clearly remember her telling Miranda in the comic that resurrecting Shepard is going too far, and that Shepard should stay dead. I remember thinking, good thing that Shepard's in Cerberus' hands now, they aren't going to give up on him.

Also, now I'm thinking of Shepard's family. They think he's dead, don't they. And I don't remember Shepard informing them of his return from the dead.

Only spacer Shepard has a family. Earthborn family is never mentioned while colonist Shepard's familily was killed by.. of course.. Batarian pirates. Captain Hannah Shepard is a member of the alliance so it makes sense to avoid telling her that Shepard is alive and has been rebuilt by Cerberus (Considering Cerberus's reputation among the Alliance).

[KawaiiKatie]

laecraft wrote...

@KawaiiKatie: I had no idea about those dogtags! She keeps them? Or maybe sends them back to Hackett? That's pretty sneaky of her.

I really hope that gets addressed in ME3. Maybe Liara will say something like, "I know we're not very close, but Hackett wanted you to have these" or something to that effect. Really, anything that doesn't make it seem like Liara is going to cling to those tags because I hurt her feelings.

[Kadzin]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

laecraft wrote...

@KawaiiKatie: I had no idea about those dogtags! She keeps them? Or maybe sends them back to Hackett? That's pretty sneaky of her.

I really hope that gets addressed in ME3. Maybe Liara will say something like, "I know we're not very close, but Hackett wanted you to have these" or something to that effect. Really, anything that doesn't make it seem like Liara is going to cling to those tags because I hurt her feelings.

I read your other post, you know what I found ironic about the whole issue?
People that romanced Liara tend to think the acts pretty cold towards Shepard when you meet her on Illium.
And people that didn't romance her think that she cats too friends (in your case at least).
I guess Bioware could have handled the whole issue better.

[Robhuzz]

Kadzin wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...

laecraft wrote...

@KawaiiKatie: I had no idea about those dogtags! She keeps them? Or maybe sends them back to Hackett? That's pretty sneaky of her.

I really hope that gets addressed in ME3. Maybe Liara will say something like, "I know we're not very close, but Hackett wanted you to have these" or something to that effect. Really, anything that doesn't make it seem like Liara is going to cling to those tags because I hurt her feelings.

I read your other post, you know what I found ironic about the whole issue?
People that romanced Liara tend to think the acts pretty cold towards Shepard when you meet her on Illium.
And people that didn't romance her think that she cats too friends (in your case at least).
I guess Bioware could have handled the whole issue better.

That's the difficult part of having a single character be responsible for, in this case, retrieving Shepard's corpse. Shepard can be friendly or be an ass to everyone and may or may not have family or friends from their pre service period. So BioWare had to have a character who would want to do this for Shepard, no matter what. Because Liara eventually finds herself attracted to any Shepard, regardless of gender and alignment, she was the logical choice.

[pf17456]

Liara: Hey Shepard!
Shepard: Yes Liara?
Liara: I sometimes watch you in your sleep.
Shepard: That's sweet Liara, I watch you sometimes too.

http://wingedmoggy.d...fset=0#/d46r154

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

KawaiiKatie wrote...
Okay, well, here's the thing... Bioware tried to play off Liara's fascination and devotion to Shepard as one-size-fits-all, but it definitely is not. If Liara is your lover or your very close friend, her actions make sense. But under some people's circumstances (like mine) Liara very much comes off as a stalker, but the game doesn't address that at all. Both of these things are more than a little discomforting.

First of all, there was the fact that Liara "couldn't let Shepard go" after he died, even though the sum of my interactions with her in ME1 amounted to threatening to throw her in a volcano. In ME2, she acted like she was my Shepard's closest friend, though that couldn't have been further from the truth. Perhaps she only feels close to my Shepard because of the mind-melding, but her utter devotion to a Shepard who threatened to kill her was enough to make me quirk an eyebrow.

All ME1 squadmates are retconned into being Shepard's best friend or having great respect for Shepard. It may suck that some characters are forced on you, and I understand that. But to use that as a reason to hate one single character is dumb if you ignore all the other characters that does the same.

Then I learned that she knew about Shepard's resurrection all along, but also neglected to tell his loved ones and family about it. Perhaps understandable, given the secretive nature of Cerberus, but Liara came out of that encounter with trophies. If she's your Shepard's lover, it makes sense that she would treasure them and take care of them... but, again, I threatened to kill her, and romanced someone else. Moreover, my Shepard has a family. Couldn't Liara have sent those trinkets along to my mother? Even if she couldn't tell Hannah Shepard that her child was alive, why wouldn't Liara want to give a momento to a grieving mother? Or a grieving lover, if Ash or Kaidan was Shepard's love-interest? If you romanced Ash or Kaidan, Liara knows how much he or she cared for Shepard, and yet she keeps the piece of Shepard's armour for herself. Liara's devotion to Shepard again makes me quirk an eyebrow.

I agree. Her keeping the momentos when not romanced (and especially if Shepard is a spacer) is actually somewhat selfish. A valid riticism.

What caps it for me, however, what makes me really start to call her a "stalker" (on top of everything else) is the fact that Liara kept my dogtags after I refused her offer for drinks. I was trying to stay loyal to Ashley, and I didn't want to do anything that would give anybody the wrong idea. Liara was under orders from Hackett to return those dogtags to me... but she didn't. Because my Shepard turned her down, because my Shepard said, "No, Liara. We're just friends, nothing more," she kept my tags for herself. On top of Shepard's old armour, she has a very respectable Shepard Collection, and I really have to wonder why she needs those things to comfort herself, especially since she only kept them because I turned her away.

You Shepard did not state "No. We are just friends." declining her coming to the Normandy is more in the line of "No Liara. We're not friends. So ****** off!". You're Shepard treated her like dirt. So she did not give you your present.

Anderson also hands Shepard his dog tags to him just before he leaves Earth in ME3. Suggesting that Anderson got his hands on Shepard's dogtags. Most likely he took them when the Alliance confiscated the SR-2. But if Shepard never recieved the dog-tags from Liara. The only way Anderson could have gotten them is if Liara sended them back.

[KawaiiKatie]

Lizardviking wrote...

You Shepard did not state "No. We are just friends." declining her coming to the Normandy is more in the line of "No Liara. We're not friends. So ****** off!". You're Shepard treated her like dirt. So she did not give you your present.

Oh, come on now, that's not true at all. He did not treat her like dirt. He did not spew hatred at her. All he did was look away from Liara and calmly said, "I don't think that's a good idea."

Perfectly reasonable, if you ask me. And for Liara to take that rejection so personally that she decides to keep Shepard's tags for herself suggest to me that she has an unheathly attachment to Shepard.

Anderson also hands Shepard his dog tags to him just before he leaves Earth in ME3. Suggesting that Anderson got his hands on Shepard's dogtags. Most likely he took them when the Alliance confiscated the SR-2. But if Shepard never recieved the dog-tags from Liara. The only way Anderson could have gotten them is if Liara sended them back.

I think I need to see that in-game before I forgive Liara for sending my tags to Anderson instead of handing them to me. It was my understanding that Anderson was handing Shepard new tags, telling Shepard that he/she has been reinstated in the Alliance. I don't know, but I'm willing to wait and see but I judge too harshly. Again, I hope that the issue is addressed in ME3, since the dogtags (and their implications) appear to be something that fans care about.

Modifié par KawaiiKatie, 02 septembre 2011 - 09:00 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

KawaiiKatie wrote...

Anderson also hands Shepard his dog tags to him just before he leaves Earth in ME3. Suggesting that Anderson got his hands on Shepard's dogtags. Most likely he took them when the Alliance confiscated the SR-2. But if Shepard never recieved the dog-tags from Liara. The only way Anderson could have gotten them is if Liara sended them back.

I think I need to see that in-game before I forgive Liara for sending my tags to Anderson instead of handing them to me. It was my understandign that Anderson was handing Shepard new tags, telling Shepard that he/she has been reinstated in the Alliance. I don' tknow, but I'm willing to wait and see. Again, I hope that the issue is addressed in ME3, since the dogtags (and their implications) appear to be something that fans care about.

Execpt Shepard was on Earth to stand trial. Why would Anderson create new dog tags for someone who was most likely to be send to prison or execution? Unless of course Anderson KNEW the Reapers would attack Earth.

[Barquiel]

There is the option of completing the main Shadow Broker mission and then returning later to invite Liara back to the Normandy (iirc).

BW didn't make two cabin scenes -> Liara can't give you the dogtags on the SB ship

[Kadzin]

pf17456 wrote...

Liara: Hey Shepard!
Shepard: Yes Liara?
Liara: I sometimes watch you in your sleep.
Shepard: That's sweet Liara, I watch you sometimes too.

http://wingedmoggy.d...fset=0#/d46r154

Renegade players are creepy, nuff said

[KawaiiKatie]

Lizardviking wrote...


Execpt Shepard was on Earth to stand trial. Why would Anderson create new dog tags for someone who was most likely to be send to prison or execution?

Honestly, in my mind, I assumed that Anderson didn't give two flyin' fraks about what the verdict of Shepard's trial was, at the end of the day, he was still going to consider Shepard an Alliance soldier, even if the Alliance branded Shepard a terrorist.

Anderson printing up new dogtags for Shepard just seemed more plausable to me than Anderson finding/confiscating/tracking down Shepard's old tags, but I'll admit that's a possibility. Perhaps, if Liara held on to Shepard's tags, she heard about the trial, had second thoughts, decided that Shepard really should have them, and then sent them off to Anderson and hoped that he'd be a more honest deliveryperson than she was....?

It's possible. I maintain my suspicion that Liara is, perhaps, a little too attached to my Shepard... but I'll admit that I might not have all of the information. I'll wait and see, and cross my fingers.

[Kadzin]

Robhuzz wrote...

Kadzin wrote...

KawaiiKatie wrote...

laecraft wrote...

@KawaiiKatie: I had no idea about those dogtags! She keeps them? Or maybe sends them back to Hackett? That's pretty sneaky of her.

I really hope that gets addressed in ME3. Maybe Liara will say something like, "I know we're not very close, but Hackett wanted you to have these" or something to that effect. Really, anything that doesn't make it seem like Liara is going to cling to those tags because I hurt her feelings.

I read your other post, you know what I found ironic about the whole issue?
People that romanced Liara tend to think the acts pretty cold towards Shepard when you meet her on Illium.
And people that didn't romance her think that she cats too friends (in your case at least).
I guess Bioware could have handled the whole issue better.

That's the difficult part of having a single character be responsible for, in this case, retrieving Shepard's corpse. Shepard can be friendly or be an ass to everyone and may or may not have family or friends from their pre service period. So BioWare had to have a character who would want to do this for Shepard, no matter what. Because Liara eventually finds herself attracted to any Shepard, regardless of gender and alignment, she was the logical choice.

Pretty much this, Liara was the logical choice.

And you know that says about her character?

She's awesome, that's what it says!

[Kadzin]

laecraft wrote...

Heh. Shepard Collection. My Shepard cannot begrudge Liara her little hobby. Shepard likes collecting stuff, too.

Do you think Liara would just sit in Shepard's quarters and poke the Prothean orb all day, giggling?
For some reason I can totally picture her doing that, no matter how childish and silly it sounds

[alex90c]

laecraft wrote...

Heh. Shepard Collection. My Shepard cannot begrudge Liara her little hobby. Shepard likes collecting stuff, too.

I love how Miranda's arse is sticking so far out

Modifié par alex90c, 02 septembre 2011 - 10:37 .

[Robhuzz]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

ladyvader wrote...
I found it quite easy to 'cheat' on either Ash or Kaidan.  Especially after talking to them on Horizon.  They only give LI Shep a hug.  Or a handshake if they are just friends.

Liara on the other hand....Kisses LI Shepard and hugs her friend Shepard. 

Liara is all "Hey Shepard, I just need you to hack some terminals fo me. Mkay, thanks. That would be all then."

Liara doesn't care for the relationship. And when you refuse to do the dirty work for her she threatens and even possibly blackmails you.

She also knows that Shepard is going on a *suicide* mission and doesn't care.

I find it easier to "cheat" on Liara then either Ash or Kaidan.

Liara's Illium cameo is at times cringeworthy but she does care about the relationship. She kisses Shepard but then breaks it off because she has other things on her mind, that doesn't mean she doesn't care about the relationship. She's obsessed over the Shadow Broker and only after the old SB lies dead does her obsession end. I will not allow her to become obsessed with the SB data in ME3 either, that base and all of it's data is a goner as far as I'm concerned. Naturally I'll make sure Liara is off the ship when it goes down. Come on Cerberus, attack that ship, you know you want to...

She's awesome, that's what it says!

And we all agree with that. Except for the haters but let's be honest, who cares about the haters anyway?

Modifié par Robhuzz, 02 septembre 2011 - 10:56 .