56469 réponses à ce sujet

[Trinity66]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Let's not go off topic with TIM and Cerberus. And the statue bit is taking over.

How about this: How much do you want Liara to stay independent?

Because this has always been a debate with me. Some people don't what Liara to depend on Shepard, and make her own choices without his influence. Some people want to continue being the savior and white knight for Liara, and control her path. But I want to figure out what people want out of her as a character, and how she interacts with Shepard.

In some ways, she's always been strong and independent since ME1. She mostly works alone, and tries to take care of herself. The thing is, she was very shy, and you had to rescue her. A lot of people saw her as helpless, and shouldn't be on the battlefield. There's even lines where Shepard can give her romantic bull****, like "I'll keep you safe".

But after giving her this line, Liara will say "I'm not looking for a protector". Some see this as her still showing her independence. But I never liked this line, since I never felt it was completely true. Especially since she wants to be on board for protection against Saren. So I never felt sold on it. And I know a lot of people still felt like she was flower needing protection.

Now fast forward to ME2, she's independent super woman. Yet still needs you to give her data in order to find the Shadow Broker. She still needs you to hack terminals for her, because you're the only person she trusts. She's still a person that needs help.

However, that's as far as it goes. She avoids being killed by a sniper, survives an explosion, chases a Spectre, while Shepard has to play catchup. She's the one leading forward. She's the one who choose to be Shadow Broker. And she seems to not want rely on you., and clearly doesn't need your protection. This I like, because she has to learn that it's alright to need help from others. That yes, you can do things on your own, but so much more can be done with the help of others.

Now let's talk about emotional support.

Some believe being strong and independent means Liara shouldn't need Shepard emotionally. Or have any real emotional moments, where she needs support. Yet, one of my main complaints in ME1 was when she helped kill her mother, and she was over it. Yes, she misses her, but she was pretty much keeping it all inside. She's not allowing you to really help her. Or you were simply never given the chance. Which I always found disappointing.

It's something I hope never becomes repeated in ME3. Like say, say Liara's father dies:

Shepard: Oh, Liara. I'm so sorry for you. You just started getting to know your father, and now she's dead. She got indoctrinated, and you have to shoot her.

Liara: Yes, it's very sad. I'll try to remember her.

.....

Shepard: Shouldn't you be more emotional about it?

Liara: I'm over it. Let's continue the mission.

Another thing people didn't like about her character in ME2, was that no matter how much you gave, or did for her, nothing ever got beyond business. Everything was about the Shadow Broker, Feron, and hardly anything with about talking about the two of you. It was all just mostly business.

While in LOTSB, at the end, she wants to spend time with you, despite having a busy schedule. She wants to have a moment where you and her matter, and nothing else.

So, with all that being said, what exactly do you want out of Liara as a independent woman? What do you expect?

I actually read the whole damn thing

I'm kinda thinking that in ME3 this will change. In ME and ME2 Shepard was always there to help Liara, but now in ME3 Liara will help Shepard. That at least what I'd like to see, altought I don't mind if I need to help her again.
But another thing, I want Liara to calm down a little, she was so stressed and worried and I couldn't almost talk to her until we finish the mission. I want spend some time with her (that goes for other squaddies too). I know Repaers are there, but want to know as much as possible about crew in that final game.
I hope I'll see Liara onboard Normandy again. 

Modifié par Trinity66, 04 septembre 2011 - 03:10 .

[alex90c]

As long as Liara doesn't get herself killed doing so, I'm pretty happy with her being quite independent.

[robtheguru]

I'd like to see Liara successfully perform as the Shadow Broker and show alot of independence. An independence in tasks but also in her own mind. Willing to stand behind her own opinions and to even argue with Shepard about approaches. Although by the end of ME3 i'd love to return to the classic Shepard turns up on a white stallion to save the fair blue maiden from danger and have Liara realise that she won't have to worry about anything while Shepard lives. He'll always be there to help her out.

[HogarthHughes 3]

TMA LIVE wrote...
-snip-
So, with all that being said, what exactly do you want out of Liara as a independent woman? What do you expect?

My Shepard would prefer if Liara stayed as the Shadow Broker, which would allow him to have a "boss" of sorts (though he would likely still have to answer to the Council, TIM, Alliance, or whoever) that won't jerk him around.  It seems like Liara is happy as the SB, but even so Shepard wouldn't expect her to stay if she didn't want to.  Of course he would still be reluctant to throw away such a valuable resource away, so he'd look for someone else to fill the spot if possible.  Unfortunately it seems to me like Liara won't be the SB anymore come ME3 (being on Shepards goon squad again), but maybe the base is still intact.

Regardless, Liara should have her own agenda which goes beyond "helping Shepard," just as he is devoted to serving humanity above all else (even her).  What that means, I don't know.  Her revenge mission (turned rescue mission) against the Shadow Broker was largely personal, should the Reapers be destroyed I'm not sure what Liara will want to do with herself.

As for emotional stuff, it was rather strange how quickly Liara got over Benezias death when she apparently had trouble getting over Shepard.  I mean, your own mother is less valuable to you than some guy/girl you've known for a few months?  Maybe she just "held it in" so to speak.  Anyways I think her level of "emotional independence" is just fine as is:  If in a relationship emotional support is give & take, but she doesn't need Shepard to go on or any such nonsense.

Modifié par HogarthHughes 3, 04 septembre 2011 - 03:25 .

[Korkki]

Personally I don't mind helping her out, I'll always do that gladly . We've seen that Liara is a very independent and determined woman, I think she just hasn't realized that herself. She recovered Shepard's body and she found about the Ilos and became the new SB, so without her the galaxy would be doomed and the collectors would have got Shepard's body. So it's not always Shepard who has been helping, I just wish she'd finally realize how important she is and that she wouldn't feel that she is always the one who has to lean on Shepard and that she doesn't have to prove anything for my Shep. So basicly that's what I wish, that she'll realize how strong and independent she really is.

Of course I want a lot of conversations with her and especially that she would talk about her and Shepard's relationship and about other private things. Also it would be nice to learn to know her better, what kind of things she likes etc. Some may say that there won't be time for dates in ME3 when the galaxy is at stake, but hey, they might all die tomorrow, so that could be their last chance to get to know each other and to be together.

[robtheguru]

Korkki wrote...

Personally I don't mind helping her out, I'll always do that gladly . We've seen that Liara is a very independent and determined woman, I think she just hasn't realized that herself. She recovered Shepard's body and she found about the Ilos and became the new SB, so without her the galaxy would be doomed and the collectors would have got Shepard's body. So it's not always Shepard who has been helping, I just wish she'd finally realize how important she is and that she wouldn't feel that she is always the one who has to lean on Shepard and that she doesn't have to prove anything for my Shep. So basicly that's what I wish, that she'll realize how strong and independent she really is.

Of course I want a lot of conversations with her and especially that she would talk about her and Shepard's relationship and about other private things. Also it would be nice to learn to know her better, what kind of things she likes etc. Some may say that there won't be time for dates in ME3 when the galaxy is at stake, but hey, they might all die tomorrow, so that could be their last chance to get to know each other and to be together.

What people forget is that while it takes no time at all to get from relay to relay, ships still need to travel from the relays to whatever location they are heading, which can be hours at a time. So there is plenty of downtime for "dates" it's just whether they'd be allowed to take advantage of this downtime or not lol. Lets be honest, if it takes 8 hours to get from a relay to say the Citadel, you're not just going to sit around idly twiddling your thumbs. I know there are equipment checks and system checks to be done, but thats why Shepard has a crew.

If I was Shepard i'd make the time to sit down with Liara and talk. You don't know when death is going to come so i'd be taking full advantage of any time that can be made free.

[ladyvader]

HogarthHughes 3 wrote...

As for emotional stuff, it was rather strange how quickly Liara got over Benezias death when she apparently had trouble getting over Shepard.  I mean, your own mother is less valuable to you than some guy/girl you've known for a few months?  Maybe she just "held it in" so to speak.  Anyways I think her level of "emotional independence" is just fine as is:  If in a relationship emotional support is give & take, but she doesn't need Shepard to go on or any such nonsense.

Her reaction to Benezia's death makes me think with her choice to study Protheans causes a rift between them.  Even if Benezia understood why Liara choose her path, it seems that they didn't talk much those fifty years Liara was going to dig sites and doing her research.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

alex90c wrote...

As long as Liara doesn't get herself killed doing so, I'm pretty happy with her being quite independent.

I might be jumping the gun here and honestly I'm hoping that I jumping the gun, but did anyone else notice in the combat trailer when the Atlas Mech graps Liara a kind of crunching sound that usally indicates bones breaking and her scream? It reminded me when the King Calin gets killed by the ogre in Dragon Age: Origins.  

[Robhuzz]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

alex90c wrote...

As long as Liara doesn't get herself killed doing so, I'm pretty happy with her being quite independent.

I might be jumping the gun here and honestly I'm hoping that I jumping the gun, but did anyone else notice in the combat trailer when the Atlas Mech graps Liara a kind of crunching sound that usally indicates bones breaking and her scream? It reminded me when the King Calin gets killed by the ogre in Dragon Age: Origins.  

How could we forget? Liara haters came in from everywhere to show us the .gif they made of that situation. <_<
Anyway it was simply a combat death so she should get up again after the combat is over. If not, then just make sure she doesn't go near the Atlas. The guy who was playing either did it deliberately or he's a total noob.

Edit: I didn't hear those sounds. The scene appeared so insanely fast I do hope that's not the usual for combat in ME3. Although the earth and sur'kesh demo had much better speeds so... could be nothing.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 04 septembre 2011 - 04:12 .

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Robhuzz wrote...

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

alex90c wrote...

As long as Liara doesn't get herself killed doing so, I'm pretty happy with her being quite independent.

I might be jumping the gun here and honestly I'm hoping that I jumping the gun, but did anyone else notice in the combat trailer when the Atlas Mech graps Liara a kind of crunching sound that usally indicates bones breaking and her scream? It reminded me when the King Calin gets killed by the ogre in Dragon Age: Origins.  

How could we forget? Liara haters came in from everywhere to show us the .gif they made of that situation. <_<
Anyway it was simply a combat death so she should get up again after the combat is over. If not, then just make sure she doesn't go near the Atlas. The guy who was playing either did it deliberately or he's a total noob.

Edit: I didn't hear those sounds. The scene appeared so insanely fast I do hope that's not the usual for combat in ME3. Although the earth and sur'kesh demo had much better speeds so... could be nothing.

Sorry, didn't mean offend anyone.

[Korkki]

robtheguru wrote...

Korkki wrote...

Personally I don't mind helping her out, I'll always do that gladly . We've seen that Liara is a very independent and determined woman, I think she just hasn't realized that herself. She recovered Shepard's body and she found about the Ilos and became the new SB, so without her the galaxy would be doomed and the collectors would have got Shepard's body. So it's not always Shepard who has been helping, I just wish she'd finally realize how important she is and that she wouldn't feel that she is always the one who has to lean on Shepard and that she doesn't have to prove anything for my Shep. So basicly that's what I wish, that she'll realize how strong and independent she really is.

Of course I want a lot of conversations with her and especially that she would talk about her and Shepard's relationship and about other private things. Also it would be nice to learn to know her better, what kind of things she likes etc. Some may say that there won't be time for dates in ME3 when the galaxy is at stake, but hey, they might all die tomorrow, so that could be their last chance to get to know each other and to be together.

What people forget is that while it takes no time at all to get from relay to relay, ships still need to travel from the relays to whatever location they are heading, which can be hours at a time. So there is plenty of downtime for "dates" it's just whether they'd be allowed to take advantage of this downtime or not lol. Lets be honest, if it takes 8 hours to get from a relay to say the Citadel, you're not just going to sit around idly twiddling your thumbs. I know there are equipment checks and system checks to be done, but thats why Shepard has a crew.

If I was Shepard i'd make the time to sit down with Liara and talk. You don't know when death is going to come so i'd be taking full advantage of any time that can be made free.

I agree with you and that's what I kinda meant even I didn't say it directly (or at all). I just hope that we could have more of these chats and that they would be deeper than just 'hey, I'm an asari, I have a tentacle head and I can mate with anyone' or that every chat wouldn't be just about the mission. Lets just hope that BW gets that not every Shepard wants to adjust his/hers gear or do push-ups all those hours:P

[Trinity66]

Why do people getting this scene as possible Liara's death. That's silly. Like you'd play Arrival and when Shepard gets knocked by Kensen's (or whatever she is) grenade and you'd go "Oh ****, Shepard is dead, lol.

[IndigoWolfe]

Robhuzz wrote...

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

alex90c wrote...

As long as Liara doesn't get herself killed doing so, I'm pretty happy with her being quite independent.

I might be jumping the gun here and honestly I'm hoping that I jumping the gun, but did anyone else notice in the combat trailer when the Atlas Mech graps Liara a kind of crunching sound that usally indicates bones breaking and her scream? It reminded me when the King Calin gets killed by the ogre in Dragon Age: Origins.  

How could we forget? Liara haters came in from everywhere to show us the .gif they made of that situation. <_<
Anyway it was simply a combat death so she should get up again after the combat is over. If not, then just make sure she doesn't go near the Atlas. The guy who was playing either did it deliberately or he's a total noob.

I'd be willing to bet the farm that it was just a combat death. It simply wouldn't make sense as anything else. For one; they wouldn't let a spoiler like that drop.

It was a plot for trailer drama, something to stir up the chivalrous, protective instinct present in the majority of impressionable young men. And most certainly Liara fans.:innocent:

[Korkki]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

alex90c wrote...

As long as Liara doesn't get herself killed doing so, I'm pretty happy with her being quite independent.

I might be jumping the gun here and honestly I'm hoping that I jumping the gun, but did anyone else notice in the combat trailer when the Atlas Mech graps Liara a kind of crunching sound that usally indicates bones breaking and her scream? It reminded me when the King Calin gets killed by the ogre in Dragon Age: Origins.  

How could we forget? Liara haters came in from everywhere to show us the .gif they made of that situation. <_<
Anyway it was simply a combat death so she should get up again after the combat is over. If not, then just make sure she doesn't go near the Atlas. The guy who was playing either did it deliberately or he's a total noob.

I'd be willing to bet the farm that it was just a combat death. It simply wouldn't make sense as anything else. For one; they wouldn't let a spoiler like that drop.

It was a plot for trailer drama, something to stir up the chivalrous, protective instinct present in the majority of impressionable young men. And most certainly Liara fans.:innocent:

Nothing that good old medi-gel can't fix

[Grunt Lord]

I'm wondering does Tim really knows where the Shadow broker base is if in story line its supposed to happen 2 months after SM, Because Shepard brakes away from Cerberus and the ship needs repaired and almost an overhaul from SM even if you have all upgrades.

just throwing my idea out there so please don't start an argument!

[Ophiskc]

I'm sorry i come up with the theme again... but i was trying to see if i could improve a little Liara's statue, following the anime concept from the artist... still looks young, but i would consider into buying it or not, cant say the same of the original

Here is the photo

[Ophiskc]

Grunt Lord wrote...

I'm wondering does Tim really knows where the Shadow broker base is if in story line its supposed to happen 2 months after SM, Because Shepard brakes away from Cerberus and the ship needs repaired and almost an overhaul from SM even if you have all upgrades.

just throwing my idea out there so please don't start an argument!

I think TIM knows, just as he knew that Liara took over as the new SB, whoever informed him is unknown

[kumquats]

Grunt Lord wrote...

I'm wondering does Tim really knows where the Shadow broker base is if in story line its supposed to happen 2 months after SM.

I don't think that Hagalaz can just take off and fly to another planet, this ship was build to navigate in this storm.
The only way TIM doesn't know where the SB Base is, if Liara left Hagalaz and build a new Base.

Maybe it's just hard to find the base in this storm, but not impossible.

[alex90c]

Ophiskc wrote...

I'm sorry i come up with the theme again... but i was trying to see if i could improve a little Liara's statue, following the anime concept from the artist... still looks young, but i would consider into buying it or not, cant say the same of the original

Here is the photo

Maybe if the eyes were a tad closer together, but yeah it's definitely an improvement.

Step 2: remove gigantic breasts

[Korkki]

Ophiskc wrote...

Grunt Lord wrote...

I'm wondering does Tim really knows where the Shadow broker base is if in story line its supposed to happen 2 months after SM, Because Shepard brakes away from Cerberus and the ship needs repaired and almost an overhaul from SM even if you have all upgrades.

just throwing my idea out there so please don't start an argument!

I think TIM knows, just as he knew that Liara took over as the new SB, whoever informed him is unknown

I'm not quite sure what the damaged Normandy and TIM knowing the location of SB base have to do with each other, but it's possible that TIM doesn't know the exact location of the SB base. I understood that Liara figured that out from Saket's files, so if someone didn't leak that information to TIM it's possible that he doesn't know, not yet anyway..

[Robhuzz]

Ophiskc wrote...

Grunt Lord wrote...

I'm wondering does Tim really knows where the Shadow broker base is if in story line its supposed to happen 2 months after SM, Because Shepard brakes away from Cerberus and the ship needs repaired and almost an overhaul from SM even if you have all upgrades.

just throwing my idea out there so please don't start an argument!

I think TIM knows, just as he knew that Liara took over as the new SB, whoever informed him is unknown

I'm not sure TIM writes all those mission reports. I used to think so but on my latest playthrough I did the cerberus operative mission and sent the Cerberus data to the Alliance. The report stated 'Data uploaded to the Alliance for decryption'. Now if TIM knew that, he would not be too happy. You actually get an email from Andersson stating who great a job you did at weakening Cerberus. If TIM wrote that report he would damn well have had something to say.

 I understood that Liara figured that out from Saket's files, so if someone didn't leak that information to TIM it's possible that he doesn't know, not yet anyway..

That's just blind optimism, with EDI and other monitoring systems on board, TIM full well knows where the base is located.

Modifié par Robhuzz, 04 septembre 2011 - 04:46 .

[Ophiskc]

kumquats wrote...

Grunt Lord wrote...

I'm wondering does Tim really knows where the Shadow broker base is if in story line its supposed to happen 2 months after SM.

I don't think that Hagalaz can just take off and fly to another planet, this ship was build to navigate in this storm.
The only way TIM doesn't know where the SB Base is, if Liara left Hagalaz and build a new Base.

Maybe it's just hard to find the base in this storm, but not impossible.

I always got the impression that the SB ship was built to be more of a tank than a speed ship, if is attacked by various enemies, i dont believe will have a chance to escape away. But thats just my point of view

[Robhuzz]

Ophiskc wrote...

kumquats wrote...

Grunt Lord wrote...

I'm wondering does Tim really knows where the Shadow broker base is if in story line its supposed to happen 2 months after SM.

I don't think that Hagalaz can just take off and fly to another planet, this ship was build to navigate in this storm.
The only way TIM doesn't know where the SB Base is, if Liara left Hagalaz and build a new Base.

Maybe it's just hard to find the base in this storm, but not impossible.

I always got the impression that the SB ship was built to be more of a tank than a speed ship, if is attacked by various enemies, i dont believe will have a chance to escape away. But thats just my point of view

If it had any external defenses, the original Shadow Broker would've used them against Shepard and Liara when they landed on the ship. The fact that it doesn't leads me to believe it was specifically built to stay hidden in the storm on hagalaz. That said, it's very unlikely it could actually take off and leave the planet for someplace else though it would be awesome to see Liara try to pilot that thing.

[Kadzin]

Robhuzz wrote...

Ophiskc wrote...

kumquats wrote...

Grunt Lord wrote...

I'm wondering does Tim really knows where the Shadow broker base is if in story line its supposed to happen 2 months after SM.

I don't think that Hagalaz can just take off and fly to another planet, this ship was build to navigate in this storm.
The only way TIM doesn't know where the SB Base is, if Liara left Hagalaz and build a new Base.

Maybe it's just hard to find the base in this storm, but not impossible.

I always got the impression that the SB ship was built to be more of a tank than a speed ship, if is attacked by various enemies, i dont believe will have a chance to escape away. But thats just my point of view

If it had any external defenses, the original Shadow Broker would've used them against Shepard and Liara when they landed on the ship. The fact that it doesn't leads me to believe it was specifically built to stay hidden in the storm on hagalaz. That said, it's very unlikely it could actually take off and leave the planet for someplace else though it would be awesome to see Liara try to pilot that thing.

Yes I can picture it now:
Judge: Commander Shepard, you are accused of killing thousands of batarians and destroying a mass relay, how do you plead?
*SB ship comes crashing down into the court building and Liara jumps out of it and lands directly in the mid of the court room.*
Liara: Not guilty your honor!
Shepard: *swoon*

Modifié par Kadzin, 04 septembre 2011 - 04:59 .

[IndigoWolfe]

Kadzin wrote...
Yes I can picture it now:
Judge: Commander Shepard, you are accused of killing thousands of batarians and destroying a mass relay, how do you plead?
*SB ship comes crashing down into the court building and Liara jumps out of it and lands directly in the mid of the court room.*
Liara: Not guilty your honor!
Shepard: *swoon*

That, or;

Batarian Ambassador: (pointing at Shepard) I present to this Council, Commander Shepard; renegade and terrorist! Not only is he responsible for a prison break in a secure Hegemony system and the murder of over three hundred thousand batarian colonists but he is indesputably affiliated with the most notorious human extremist group of the current time! We demand the expodition of Shepard, we demand justice!

Liara: (entering the court chamber) Batarian justice is a unique point of view, ambassador. (To the Council) I have come to speak on behalf of the accused.

Batarian Ambassador: Personal bias! Her history with Shepard is well known!

(place the reference)