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[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Robhuzz wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...
Kaidan steals all the paragon remarks from Liara so I usually just take Liara with me, and Wrex...because....well. No explanation required actually...

kaidan's presence turns poor Liara into an evil renegade. That is why I never take him with me.

I took him on a few playthroughs when Liara wasn't on the team. Even took him with me to Ilos once, at that time I didn't know he would make Liara into a renegade. Since Liara is ALWAYS on my Ilos team, that was the last time Kaidan got to see Ilos.

The best two people to take with you to the final battle on the citadel (looking at dialogue) are Liara/Ashley imo. Liara as a full blown paragon sees that, in order for humanity to gain the trust of the other races, they must do whatever they can to help, so no sacrificing the council if Liara has anything to say about it. Ashley on the other hand is understandably frustrated with the council and feels they've never done anything right, and that sacrificing human lives for those 3 ungrateful *censored* is a waste.

Killing Kaidan on Virmire becuase he turns Liara into a renegade is a ittle harsh don't you think? You could just take someone else with Liara.

I too prefer having Liara be the paragon advocate for the end battle. I can¨t remember Ashley's reaction to the end choice, but I do remember Tali and I like her line about letting the council die. Sorta like her seeing the council stuck in a similar situation like her people, feeling that they do not deserve to be saved and should be left like they left the Quarians.

[Robhuzz]

Lizardviking wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...
Kaidan steals all the paragon remarks from Liara so I usually just take Liara with me, and Wrex...because....well. No explanation required actually...

kaidan's presence turns poor Liara into an evil renegade. That is why I never take him with me.

I took him on a few playthroughs when Liara wasn't on the team. Even took him with me to Ilos once, at that time I didn't know he would make Liara into a renegade. Since Liara is ALWAYS on my Ilos team, that was the last time Kaidan got to see Ilos.

The best two people to take with you to the final battle on the citadel (looking at dialogue) are Liara/Ashley imo. Liara as a full blown paragon sees that, in order for humanity to gain the trust of the other races, they must do whatever they can to help, so no sacrificing the council if Liara has anything to say about it. Ashley on the other hand is understandably frustrated with the council and feels they've never done anything right, and that sacrificing human lives for those 3 ungrateful *censored* is a waste.

Killing Kaidan on Virmire becuase he turns Liara into a renegade is a ittle harsh don't you think? You could just take someone else with Liara.

I too prefer having Liara be the paragon advocate for the end battle. I can¨t remember Ashley's reaction to the end choice, but I do remember Tali and I like her line about letting the council die. Sorta like her seeing the council stuck in a similar situation like her people, feeling that they do not deserve to be saved and should be left like they left the Quarians.

I didn't say that. I usually kill off Ashley and Kaidan evenly. Only playthrough it's Kaidan, the other it's ashley. With 6 different classes that should leave 6 playthroughs for ME3. 3 with Kaidan and 3 with Ashley. I simply meant I'm no longer taking Kaidan with me to Ilos, even if he survived Virmire:P

ETA: Yes, Tali's is convincing as well, although the Liara/Ashley line sounds very personal. Liara gave the general opinion on humanity during her... I think it was her 2nd conversation. Humanity was seen as a bully who does everything to gain more influence. Liara kind of says that by saving the council, this is a chance for humanity show the other races that they're willing to really work together. 

Ashley saw what the council did for humanity so far and she says sacrificing humans for a council who does not care about humanity is just dumb and she urges Shepard to let the council die. Garrus says the same but it carries less weight from him because he's no human (I do like Garrus though, don't ever let it be said that I don't)

Modifié par Robhuzz, 02 octobre 2011 - 07:58 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Robhuzz wrote...

ETA: Yes, Tali's is convincing as well, although the Liara/Ashley line sounds very personal. Liara gave the general opinion on humanity during her... I think it was her 2nd conversation. Humanity was seen as a bully who does everything to gain more influence. Liara kind of says that by saving the council, this is a chance for humanity show the other races that they're willing to really work together. 

Ashley saw what the council did for humanity so far and she says sacrificing humans for a council who does not care about humanity is just dumb and she urges Shepard to let the council die. Garrus says the same but it carries less weight from him because he's no human (I do like Garrus though, don't ever let it be said that I don't)

Garrus also only works if he's turned renegade and even then it feels like it does not contain any real weight.

But to return to topic. I just really do not like renegade Liara. Having her tell Shepard to kill the council and ignore the Feros colonist in favor of the issions feels jarring.

[Pariah Culexus]

Lizardviking wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

ETA: Yes, Tali's is convincing as well, although the Liara/Ashley line sounds very personal. Liara gave the general opinion on humanity during her... I think it was her 2nd conversation. Humanity was seen as a bully who does everything to gain more influence. Liara kind of says that by saving the council, this is a chance for humanity show the other races that they're willing to really work together. 

Ashley saw what the council did for humanity so far and she says sacrificing humans for a council who does not care about humanity is just dumb and she urges Shepard to let the council die. Garrus says the same but it carries less weight from him because he's no human (I do like Garrus though, don't ever let it be said that I don't)

Garrus also only works if he's turned renegade and even then it feels like it does not contain any real weight.

But to return to topic. I just really do not like renegade Liara. Having her tell Shepard to kill the council and ignore the Feros colonist in favor of the issions feels jarring.

Agreed, I far prefer her as paragon, I think it suits her much better than when she goes renegade (with Kaiden in the party and before she tells you about her part in your recovery in ME2) I hope she behaves more paragonish in ME3.
Not that I in any way dislike paragade Liara from LotSB, I just hope she keeps to her earlier ideals now that she is back with Shepard, which I assure she is for most of us here 

P.S. can someone give me the rundown of how to upload pictures, please *Liara puppy eyes* 

[alex90c]

Pariah Culexus wrote...

P.S. can someone give me the rundown of how to upload pictures, please *Liara puppy eyes* 

;D

All you do is find the direct link of an image, and then place IMG%20[*/IMG]%20[img]%20 tags around it. If you want to actually upload pictures rather than just display them in your post, then find a website like imgur, photobucket, imageshack (ew) etc. and then upload an image from your computer there and then just do what I said before.

edit - good god I screwed that up pretty hard, but basically IMG in square brackets before the link and them /IMG in square brackets at the end

Modifié par alex90c, 02 octobre 2011 - 08:49 .

[Robhuzz]

Pariah Culexus wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

ETA: Yes, Tali's is convincing as well, although the Liara/Ashley line sounds very personal. Liara gave the general opinion on humanity during her... I think it was her 2nd conversation. Humanity was seen as a bully who does everything to gain more influence. Liara kind of says that by saving the council, this is a chance for humanity show the other races that they're willing to really work together. 

Ashley saw what the council did for humanity so far and she says sacrificing humans for a council who does not care about humanity is just dumb and she urges Shepard to let the council die. Garrus says the same but it carries less weight from him because he's no human (I do like Garrus though, don't ever let it be said that I don't)

Garrus also only works if he's turned renegade and even then it feels like it does not contain any real weight.

But to return to topic. I just really do not like renegade Liara. Having her tell Shepard to kill the council and ignore the Feros colonist in favor of the issions feels jarring.

Agreed, I far prefer her as paragon, I think it suits her much better than when she goes renegade (with Kaiden in the party and before she tells you about her part in your recovery in ME2) I hope she behaves more paragonish in ME3.
Not that I in any way dislike paragade Liara from LotSB, I just hope she keeps to her earlier ideals now that she is back with Shepard, which I assure she is for most of us here 

P.S. can someone give me the rundown of how to upload pictures, please *Liara puppy eyes* 

With upload pictures I assume you mean add them to thread? It's easy. Just type:

[img ]*Link of image*[/img ]  and remove the spaces.

Edit: Darn it! I'm getting nina'ed left and right today.

Lack of blue makes Liara sad.

And now it's time for some sleep. Good night folks-_-

Modifié par Robhuzz, 02 octobre 2011 - 08:53 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Pariah Culexus wrote...

Agreed, I far prefer her as paragon, I think it suits her much better than when she goes renegade (with Kaiden in the party and before she tells you about her part in your recovery in ME2) I hope she behaves more paragonish in ME3.
Not that I in any way dislike paragade Liara from LotSB, I just hope she keeps to her earlier ideals now that she is back with Shepard, which I assure she is for most of us here 

P.S. can someone give me the rundown of how to upload pictures, please *Liara puppy eyes* 

I prefer her the way she is now. She is still good but become somewhat more jaded.

to upload pictures. Go to imageshack and just upload your screenshots. Or use BSN and create an album (that way they will be preserved).

"EDIT"

Ninja'd

Modifié par Lizardviking, 02 octobre 2011 - 08:50 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Ericzio wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...
Kaidan steals all the paragon remarks from Liara so I usually just take Liara with me, and Wrex...because....well. No explanation required actually...

kaidan's presence turns poor Liara into an evil renegade. That is why I never take him with me.

That never happens to me.. in fact no one other than Liara talks in my game 

Really? Sounds like a bug.

[Pariah Culexus]

Robhuzz wrote...

With upload pictures I assume you mean add them to thread? It's easy. Just type:

[img ]*Link of image*[/img ]  and remove the spaces.

Edit: Darn it! I'm getting nina'ed left and right today.

Lack of blue makes Liara sad.

And now it's time for some sleep. Good night folks-_-

Thank you all.
Yeah I meant  add the to the thread, can't seem to express myself clearly today

Okay testing...

http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=liara mass effect 2&order=9&offset=120#/d2y9zw7

Edit: okay that did not work... well I will have to work on that later

Modifié par Pariah Culexus, 02 octobre 2011 - 10:55 .

[Golden Owl]

Hello Liara fans....Someone just challenged me on another thread in regards to 'Ruthlessness'...I have decided to examine it further in regards to the NPC's involved....So question for you: "Why in your perceptions is Liara not ruthless?....Examples included please?"

[who would know]

[karmensandiego]

who would know wrote...

Liara looks a little creepy in that pic, like she's stoned or something.  I think the eyes are a little wide.  But otherwise its really good.

[kumquats]

Golden Owl wrote...

Hello Liara fans....Someone just challenged me on another thread in regards to 'Ruthlessness'...I have decided to examine it further in regards to the NPC's involved....So question for you: "Why in your perceptions is Liara not ruthless?....Examples included please?"

Well I can't help you with that. I think Liara is ruthless. Like her VAs said, Liara has many layers and her ruthless side belongs to her just like her empathic and nerdy side.
She was ruthless in ME1 and she will be in ME3, which doesn't mean we will see this side all the time.

That's what makes her a three dimensional character. It's not like she is perfectly fine with being ruthless, she cries in LotSB because she is so relieved.

So maybe someone else can help.

[Robhuzz]

kumquats wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Hello Liara fans....Someone just challenged me on another thread in regards to 'Ruthlessness'...I have decided to examine it further in regards to the NPC's involved....So question for you: "Why in your perceptions is Liara not ruthless?....Examples included please?"

Well I can't help you with that. I think Liara is ruthless. Like her VAs said, Liara has many layers and her ruthless side belongs to her just like her empathic and nerdy side.
She was ruthless in ME1 and she will be in ME3, which doesn't mean we will see this side all the time.

That's what makes her a three dimensional character. It's not like she is perfectly fine with being ruthless, she cries in LotSB because she is so relieved.

So maybe someone else can help.

Erm.. When exactly in ME1 is she ruthless? I agree she is in her Illium cameo and during most of Lotsb. She's definitely not ruthless in ME1 and judging from the way Lotsb ends, she will again be a lot less so in ME3. I'm not saying she'll revert back to pure paragon, nor do I want her  to  (paragade all the way:wizard:) like she was in ME1, but she probably will be less renegade than in ME2.

[kumquats]

I believe just because we don't see her ruthless side in ME1 like in ME2, doesn't mean that this side doesn't exist.

[Pockles]

karmensandiego wrote...

who would know wrote...

Liara looks a little creepy in that pic, like she's stoned or something.  I think the eyes are a little wide.  But otherwise its really good.

Not quite. Her pupils are in the very center of her eyes, instead of slightly inward. It makes her look dazed, unfocused, and (in conjuction with that smile) creepy.

Modifié par Pockles, 03 octobre 2011 - 08:31 .

[Barquiel]

Golden Owl wrote...

Hello Liara fans....Someone just challenged me on another thread in regards to 'Ruthlessness'...I have decided to examine it further in regards to the NPC's involved....So question for you: "Why in your perceptions is Liara not ruthless?....Examples included please?"

I think she's somewhat ruthless (we could describe most squaddies as ruthless, imo), but not callous.

But having seen the discussion on the other thread...I disagree with the statement that she is selfish. She cares about other people (Shepard, Feron), that's why she has started her information broker operation. Nyxeris does say that Liara could hold even more power and influence if she wanted to. Her solitary goal was to find Feron and destroy the Shadow Broker...not power or money.

Modifié par Barquiel, 03 octobre 2011 - 09:14 .

[Robhuzz]

kumquats wrote...

I believe just because we don't see her ruthless side in ME1 like in ME2, doesn't mean that this side doesn't exist.

I disagree. I firmly believe Liara's ruthless side like we saw in ME2 was caused by certain events that had a deep impact on her (Shepard's death, almost getting killed herself by the SB, losing Feron) and wasn't present in ME1. Part of her renegade side is also for show, a result of emotional barriers she put up to hide her good natured self to make sure she didn't look 'weak' to the other people on Illium.

[Pariah Culexus]

Robhuzz wrote...

kumquats wrote...

I believe just because we don't see her ruthless side in ME1 like in ME2, doesn't mean that this side doesn't exist.

I disagree. I firmly believe Liara's ruthless side like we saw in ME2 was caused by certain events that had a deep impact on her (Shepard's death, almost getting killed herself by the SB, losing Feron) and wasn't present in ME1. Part of her renegade side is also for show, a result of emotional barriers she put up to hide her good natured self to make sure she didn't look 'weak' to the other people on Illium.

^this, comepletly

She is the single most empathic and compassionate character in the game in my opinion, even more so than Kaiden dispite what the game mechanics say. 

I cannot think of any point in the game where she seems the least bit ruthless, she advocate releasing the ragni queen, saving the colonists and even has sympathy for Saren's situation etc.
If we leave out the part where she shoot saren and advocate the destruction for the council if kaiden is present, which seems out of character and more like story/gameplay segregation (or whatever that is called) to me, there is simply no place I can remember where she is behaving ruthless, either in convesation or action.

In ME2 well, I could not have put it better than Robhuzz did.

[Wulfram]

I wouldn't call ME1 Liara ruthless, but she's clearly got some serious steel in her. She turns herself from a civilian scientist into effectively an elite commando with little apparent trouble. She helps kill her mother and is able to pretty much just get on with things afterwards. And there's the cold satisfaction in her voice when she says "I think we're done here" after the battle.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

I would imagine that Liara can be dedicated and focused on something if she believes in what she is doing. Couple that with being emotionally cold and distant for two years, fighting against a foe that that don't play by the rules and she could easily be seen as ruthless.

[PMC65]

Pariah Culexus wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

kumquats wrote...

I believe just because we don't see her ruthless side in ME1 like in ME2, doesn't mean that this side doesn't exist.

I disagree. I firmly believe Liara's ruthless side like we saw in ME2 was caused by certain events that had a deep impact on her (Shepard's death, almost getting killed herself by the SB, losing Feron) and wasn't present in ME1. Part of her renegade side is also for show, a result of emotional barriers she put up to hide her good natured self to make sure she didn't look 'weak' to the other people on Illium.

^this, comepletly

She is the single most empathic and compassionate character in the game in my opinion, even more so than Kaiden dispite what the game mechanics say. 

I cannot think of any point in the game where she seems the least bit ruthless, she advocate releasing the ragni queen, saving the colonists and even has sympathy for Saren's situation etc.
If we leave out the part where she shoot saren and advocate the destruction for the council if kaiden is present, which seems out of character and more like story/gameplay segregation (or whatever that is called) to me, there is simply no place I can remember where she is behaving ruthless, either in convesation or action.

In ME2 well, I could not have put it better than Robhuzz did.

Kaidan is much "softer" than Liara to me and Liara had many layers in her that weren't shown in ME1.
I agree with Ali and KQ that Liara has different sides to her and some are very steely, strong and cold.

But that is the beauty of role playing and coloring your own version of the game - there really isn't a right or wrong. Unless you are speaking specific moments in-game all is open to the gamer on how they perceive the character(s). Even Liara's opinions/dialogue aren't written in stone ... they change if you take Kaidan which I love because it shows the possibilities. For Kaidan fans they can't see a renegade which is a little of a bummer, although you can make him not so trusting of aliens.

If you love a 100% paragon Liara then you got it. If you like some renegade in her you can have that too. I like a more mature Liara with cold edges and a brilliant chess playing mind. Others like her sweet, nerdy and virginal. Whatever floats your boat is good.

In ME1 I don't remember any character being truly ruthless in Shepard's crew because there was no option for that. Or I am forgetting moments in the game, highly possible. ME2 saw more sides to the crew with their loyalty missions that weren't in the first game. Let's see what happens in ME3!

   

[jamesp81]

Korkki wrote...

eltan2481 wrote...

I know this pic was posted mid-thread; however in my mind it is by far the best Liara fan art made thus far; and so, I figured I would bring it back as a treat to other Liara supporters.

It is by Paul Grant, a phenomenally talented arist (this is hand painted, not computer generated!), his artwork can be found here: http://prg1.deviantart.com/

I love this pic, it's just so beautiful. The scene and everything are great and the artist has really managed to capture the mood and the feelings here. And on top of everyting else the painting itself is a masterpiece. If art museums and galleries were full of this kind of paintings I'd happily spend all my free time there

I think you can even see a touch of sadness in her eyes.  It says something, something like "Goddess.  I miss you...so much."  Nothing complicated, just a hurting, longing heart.

[Robhuzz]

jamesp81 wrote...

Korkki wrote...

eltan2481 wrote...

I know this pic was posted mid-thread; however in my mind it is by far the best Liara fan art made thus far; and so, I figured I would bring it back as a treat to other Liara supporters.

It is by Paul Grant, a phenomenally talented arist (this is hand painted, not computer generated!), his artwork can be found here: http://prg1.deviantart.com/

I love this pic, it's just so beautiful. The scene and everything are great and the artist has really managed to capture the mood and the feelings here. And on top of everyting else the painting itself is a masterpiece. If art museums and galleries were full of this kind of paintings I'd happily spend all my free time there

I think you can even see a touch of sadness in her eyes.  It says something, something like "Goddess.  I miss you...so much."  Nothing complicated, just a hurting, longing heart.

Something like that would make for an absolutely beautiful scene in ME3.