56459 réponses à ce sujet

[Pockles]

alex90c wrote...

Pockles wrote...

alex90c wrote...
You haven't got an attachment to these 15 billion people so Bioware know full well most people would save their LIs.

Only the people that can't do math or lack a moral compass.

I'd save the LI.

See, my emotion gets in the way of me making the logical decision, and you shouldn't be surprised that I and a few other people would do this.

Then you're a slave to your emotions. We can act beyond our feelings.

[alex90c]

I'm just saying what I would realistically do. Of course I know every time I should save the 15 billion people, but putting myself in that situation ... then, well, I guess Liara's gonna live.

[Pariah Culexus]

alex90c wrote...

Pockles wrote...

alex90c wrote...
You haven't got an attachment to these 15 billion people so Bioware know full well most people would save their LIs.

Only the people that can't do math or lack a moral compass.

I'd save the LI.

See, my emotion gets in the way of me making the logical decision, and you shouldn't be surprised that I and a few other people would do this.

Same here.

While logic and emotion each play into the dicision morals, in my mind, does not.
Saving the one you love is an emotional decision; saving the many that you do not love is a logical decision.
Both are moral they just defirenciate between being selfish and selfless. 
Which ever you choose would depend on wichever of emotion or logic has a greater hold over you, not whether you are a good or evil person.
An amoral dicision (speaking very much in black and white here) would be to not save anyone and let them all die.  

[Korkki]

Pariah Culexus wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Pockles wrote...

alex90c wrote...
You haven't got an attachment to these 15 billion people so Bioware know full well most people would save their LIs.

Only the people that can't do math or lack a moral compass.

I'd save the LI.

See, my emotion gets in the way of me making the logical decision, and you shouldn't be surprised that I and a few other people would do this.

Same here.

While logic and emotion each play into the dicision morals, in my mind, does not.
Saving the one you love is an emotional decision; saving the many that you do not love is a logical decision.
Both are moral they just defirenciate between being selfish and selfless. 
Which ever you choose would depend on wichever of emotion or logic has a greater hold over you, not whether you are a good or evil person.
An amoral dicision (speaking very much in black and white here) would be to not save anyone and let them all die.  

Plus that this is still just a videogame we're talking about here. I'd save Liara over any number of people just because I want to see how Shepard and Liara's story will conclude, and still I don't consider myself a massmurderer. If I were in that kind of situation irl, I hope that I'd be able to make the right decision and save those 15 billion people instead of my love one, because that would be the right and logical decision. But luckily in a videogame, I don't have to be sorry for those 15 billion virtual deaths, my Shepard can be sorry for those deaths but not me.

[Robhuzz]

What if the decision seemed a little more 'fair'? Like you either save Liara, or another person. You go after Liara for personal reasons or the other for a different interest. As it turns out, the other person is an 8 year old child who, when she comes of age, can assume the throne of a kingless country and stop it from falling apart. Since your country falling apart was the equivalent of 'the world is ending!' in medieval times, this decision could be more difficult than saving the statistic that is 10 billion virtual people, or your LI. It's also a lot more realistic than derp "save your LI and 10 billion people will magically die" if you ask me.

Back to the actual question. IF there we a situation like you guys described, I would also save Liara over 10 billion virtual people, I don't have to stay rational since it's just a video game at the end of the day.

[diamondedge]

Maybe it's a tough choice in the first playthrough, if you care about Triss.

I take it you haven't read any of the books? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie] If you did, it's near impossible not to care about her. And Elven Ruins bath scene? Oh, MAN.

But yes, first time is the charm. You didn't know weather he/she survives, but the fact remains, if you go help either Roche/Iorveth, as far as you know,  you have  effectively condemned Triss to die. It's more like the fact that the
choice is there and could have happened instead of just saving them all in any order you desire.

Which decision are you talking about exactly? I haven't  finished Roche's path just yet, currently nearing the end of act 2. I do know Triss always survives in act 3, even if you choose not to rescue her. Letho will save her himself in that case.

Yes, now that you know she survives in any case it's easy, but not knowing that, it was the most difficult decision for most people I've talked to about it. Roche IMO is far more interesting than Iorveth and one of people that is still loyal to the king and Temeria and is still able to act in best interest of the kingdom, even after his death, whereas Iorveth is just well; as Saskia says - a terrorist.

But anyway, back to Liara yes, I'm just glad I've found more Witcher fans and people who apreciate mature content, that is all. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]

Robhuzz wrote...

What if the decision seemed a little more 'fair'? Like you either save Liara, or another person. You go after Liara for personal reasons or the other for a different interest. As it turns out, the other person is an 8 year old child who, when she comes of age, can assume the throne of a kingless country and stop it from falling apart. Since your country falling apart was the equivalent of 'the world is ending!' in medieval times, this decision could be more difficult than saving the statistic that is 10 billion virtual people, or your LI.

Yup.

I can't see why people are so against making decisions where people die regardless of how you choose. Yes, it's a video game we often play to escape the realities of life but this is damn war. In war, there are soldiers, and soldiers die. I love Virmire and like both Kaidan and Ashley, but it's easily one of my favourite things in both games due to sheer amount of emotion and the fact you have to think long and hard where your priorities lie, and who are you letting to die. Especially for us, who romance Liara and don't save either of them due to the simple fact that one of them is our LI.

I certainly hope there is something like it in ME3. It is my deepest desire of course, that marriage, old age and a lot of little blue children come true eventually, but I also want some great drama. I want to feel something I felt when I finished MGS3.

Modifié par diamondedge, 30 octobre 2011 - 10:20 .

[kumquats]

I wonder how Liara would feel. I don't think she would be thankful that Shepard killed billions of lifes for her.

[Robhuzz]

@Diamondedge

I haven't read the books but I always did care about triss. Even back in TW1. I simply put that fact in because not everyone will think the same way. Back when I did Iorverth's path I also saved Triss in Loch Muine instead of going after... can't remember who I was supposed to go after instead. I like Iorverth's path as well because you effectively go rogue, abandoning your quest for the kingslayer in favor of finding Triss, whereas in Roche's playthrough, Geralt is more 'Duty first'.

@Kumquats

No I doubt Liara would be very grateful if you saved her and let billions die because of that. Thankfully I can't imagine a situation where saving Liara would be the direct cause of so many getting killed.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Korkki wrote...
I was a huge BF2 fan "back in the old days" and I've played it tons and tons of hours, so I really waited for BF3, then I tested the beta and I was really, really disappointed, most likely I'm not even getting the game, have to test it at my friend's though before I say the final word...

You could also play Battkefield 2142 (like me :innocent:). It is more or less a more refined version of BF2 where all the BS have been removed, leaving only the pure battlefield experience left

Althrough I will have to see once I get my laptop back if BF3's release have killed off the remaining servers..

"EDIT"

I would welcome a "Choose between your squadmates fate" althrough I would like it once again to more like Vimire instead of something cheesy like "10 billion lives or your LI".

Modifié par Lizardviking, 30 octobre 2011 - 10:56 .

[kumquats]

diamondedge wrote...

Maybe it's a tough choice in the first playthrough, if you care about Triss.

I take it you haven't read any of the books? {smilie} If you did, it's near impossible not to care about her. And Elven Ruins bath scene? Oh, MAN.

But yes, first time is the charm. You didn't know weather he/she survives, but the fact remains, if you go help either Roche/Iorveth, as far as you know, you have effectively condemned Triss to die. It's more like the fact that the
choice is there and could have happened instead of just saving them all in any order you desire.

No I haven't read the books.

So the question still stands, why should they implement a choice, which isn't really a choice in ME3?
Wasn't that the main problem people had with DA2, that the choices made weren't having any consequences?

No I don't want a tough choice which is only interesting in the first playthrough, but in the 8 other playthroughs I fall asleep because I know, no matter what happens, Liara will survive.
There should be a consequence to everything Shepard does in ME3, that's all I'm saying.

The choice where I can save elven women in a burning building or kill Laredo, that's a good one!

I like the timer from the SM and Arrival. Maybe you have to fight of waves after waves of enemies to save Liara. That would give me a kick for Insanity. I would even tolerate a quicktime event for that.

[diamondedge]

I didn't say they have to do exactly that; I am saying that CDP has enough courage to actually put a player in position where he has to choose between LI or fate of a nation, regardless of how the choice turns out.

Only good for first play through? Well, obviously.

[kumquats]

diamondedge wrote...

I didn't say they have to do exactly that; I am saying that CDP has enough courage to actually put a player in position where he has to choose between LI or fate of a nation, regardless of how the choice turns out.

Only good for first play through? Well, obviously.

So in theory. When you do the Triss romance and have to choose between her and thousands of lifes, this has a greater emotianal impact on you, then doing the Ashley romance and leaving Kaidan behind?
I don't know. Does the number of lifes sacrificed for your LI make such a big difference?
I have to think about the answer, this is almost getting philosophical. ^^

[Pariah Culexus]

kumquats wrote...

diamondedge wrote...

I didn't say they have to do exactly that; I am saying that CDP has enough courage to actually put a player in position where he has to choose between LI or fate of a nation, regardless of how the choice turns out.

Only good for first play through? Well, obviously.

So in theory. When you do the Triss romance and have to choose between her and thousands of lifes, this has a greater emotianal impact on you, then doing the Ashley romance and leaving Kaidan behind?
I don't know. Does the number of lifes sacrificed for your LI make such a big difference?
I have to think about the answer, this is almost getting philosophical. ^^

I think we had a talk about this ealier in the thread, more or less pricisly really, which also ended up as a philosiphical talk. I guess that is the nature of these "who and/or how many may/must die becouse of..." topics 

[Korkki]

Pariah Culexus wrote...

I think we had a talk about this ealier in the thread, more or less pricisly really, which also ended up as a philosiphical talk. I guess that is the nature of these "who and/or how many may/must die becouse of..." topics 

Was it that time when I ended up talking about utilitarianism and other ethics/moral philosophy with some one?

But yeah, if we start talking about that kind of stuff, it's an endless road, seriously.

Modifié par Korkki, 30 octobre 2011 - 03:42 .

[ladyvader]

Korkki wrote...

Pariah Culexus wrote...

I think we had a talk about this ealier in the thread, more or less pricisly really, which also ended up as a philosiphical talk. I guess that is the nature of these "who and/or how many may/must die becouse of..." topics 

Was it that time when I ended up talking about utilitarianism and other ethics/moral philosophy with some one?

But yeah, if we start talking about that kind of stuff, it's an endless road, seriously.

Which is why in general I don't get into those discussions.

Mass Effect has always been about choices.  I choose to save Liara 100% of the time.  Even the Sheps that have a someone else as the LI, Liara 100% saved.  If I can't do that, I'll be a sad panda.

[ladyvader]

No, blue on this page yet.  That makes Liara sad.

[Korkki]

ladyvader wrote...

Korkki wrote...

Pariah Culexus wrote...

I think we had a talk about this ealier in the thread, more or less pricisly really, which also ended up as a philosiphical talk. I guess that is the nature of these "who and/or how many may/must die becouse of..." topics 

Was it that time when I ended up talking about utilitarianism and other ethics/moral philosophy with some one?

But yeah, if we start talking about that kind of stuff, it's an endless road, seriously.

Which is why in general I don't get into those discussions.

Mass Effect has always been about choices.  I choose to save Liara 100% of the time.  Even the Sheps that have a someone else as the LI, Liara 100% saved.  If I can't do that, I'll be a sad panda.

Philosophical discussions are interesting, as long as you are talking about different point of views (like what would Immanuel Kant think about this or some one else) and you're not even trying to find the ultimate truth, because there is none. If we slip into this what is or what is not an ethical thing to do there is no end for that discussion. Ofc there are things that are commonly considered right or wrong in our western society but still...

Yes I agree that ME is about your own choices and it's after all just a video game, so that's why I'm saving Liara too, no matter what. :innocent:

[alex90c]

fear not liara, i am coming to the rescue



god, I seriously need to turn on safe search when I google anything liara related

Modifié par alex90c, 30 octobre 2011 - 04:28 .

[Robhuzz]

god, I seriously need to turn on safe search when I google anything liara related

That bad huh?

[Korkki]

alex90c wrote...

god, I seriously need to turn on safe search when I google anything liara related

I know what you mean, my brains and eyes burn every time I see that damn pony screwing Liara and that is just one out of many horrible pics there those always give me the feeling that I want to destroy internetz and all the horrible sh!t people upload there

But I guess if we really want to avoid those pics, we just need to stay out of the Internet

And yes, don't take this post too seriously

Modifié par Korkki, 30 octobre 2011 - 04:36 .

[alex90c]

Robhuzz wrote...

god, I seriously need to turn on safe search when I google anything liara related

That bad huh?

step 1: go in to google
step 2: click on the images tab
step 3: type in "mass effect liara"
step 4: look at the images displayed and realise the second search result is one of pregnant liara
step 5: rage on BSN

[Robhuzz]

Korkki wrote...

alex90c wrote...

god, I seriously need to turn on safe search when I google anything liara related

I know what you mean, my brains and eyes burn every time I see that damn pony screwing Liara and that is just one out of many horrible pics there those always give me the feeling that I want to destroy internetz and all the horrible sh!t people upload there

But I guess if we really want to avoid those pics, we just need to stay out of the Internet

And yes, don't take this post too seriously

I'm pretty sure I'll soon regret asking this but... Pony screwing Liara?

[kumquats]

Korkki wrote...

Pariah Culexus wrote...

I think we had a talk about this ealier in the thread, more or less pricisly really, which also ended up as a philosiphical talk. I guess that is the nature of these "who and/or how many may/must die becouse of..." topics 

Was it that time when I ended up talking about utilitarianism and other ethics/moral philosophy with some one?

But yeah, if we start talking about that kind of stuff, it's an endless road, seriously.

My brain already hurts.

And random picture.

I think Grunt looks kind of cute in that shot.

[Korkki]

Robhuzz wrote...

Korkki wrote...

alex90c wrote...

god, I seriously need to turn on safe search when I google anything liara related

I know what you mean, my brains and eyes burn every time I see that damn pony screwing Liara and that is just one out of many horrible pics there those always give me the feeling that I want to destroy internetz and all the horrible sh!t people upload there

But I guess if we really want to avoid those pics, we just need to stay out of the Internet

And yes, don't take this post too seriously

I'm pretty sure I'll soon regret asking this but... Pony screwing Liara?

Well, it's been linked/posted here before, you don't want to see it but here it is  <<< WARNING CONTAINS MATERIAL THAT IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR EYES AND MIND!

Modifié par Korkki, 30 octobre 2011 - 04:48 .

[alex90c]

I just decided to watch the Genesis comic on Youtube, and why does Liara look like a horse in pretty much every single shot of herself?