56461 réponses à ce sujet

[kumquats]

The more interesting question would be, what are the alternatives? Could Liara run away from an organisation like Cerberus? I don't see TIM as a forgiving man. I don't see anyone running around the Galaxy with a casket and living long enough to bury Shepard.
I know a lot of people think that Cerberus is a bunch of incompetent idiots, but I like to think TIM is a very smart guy and most of all a very sneaky guy.

[Trinity66]

You actually came to Liara thread to moan more?

[Ryzaki]

Trinity66 wrote...

You actually came to Liara thread to moan more?

Nah came to the Liara thread because I was bored.

[Ryzaki]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
*looks at Overlord*

Yup they do.

For you CrutchCricket. Everyone isn't so attached to life that they'll take the risk of being a slave with it.

*Looks at Lazarus and Normandy SR-2*

Damn, back to square 1...

And where is the risk of being a slave? Control chip? Did that actually happen? No. Is it technically possible to tell Cerberus to go **** itself? Yes. Risk of slavery=0.

Uh...right the fact that they rebuilt the Normandy (for their own purposes mind) and Shep (same reason) is totally not them working for their own benefit.

Oh boy. So we're gonna use that actually happened as evidence of what Shep should/shouldn't be concerned about now? I suppose Shep shouldn't give a damn about the Council's "Ah yes "Reapers."." or concentrating on Sovie vs saving the DA because hey the Reapers are gonna be defeated regardless!

[Korkki]

Thank you for great answers guys! That was just something that has puzzled me for some time.

I have to agree with CrutchCricket here, that even if this whole BSN (and all the other forums like this) exist because of us fans (because otherwise there would be no users here) but at the same time we are the ones who cause all the problems and arguments and nothing is ever good enough for us. I guess no matter how reasonable you try to be, every fan is biased, you can't help it, it just comes with being a fan. But maybe the difference is, if you're even trying to see the big picture or not.

I also understand that some people are really frustrated because their favourite character got a smaller role than they wanted. But venting that aggression by telling how they're going to kill all the characters they dislike is just stupid and childish, that is just too much imo. And some people should remember that ME is after all just a game. It's fictional story and that means all the characters as well as their roles are made up. How could a character get a role too big or important in a fictional story, even if that character was replaced with other character, the whole thing would be still made up. But yes, I understand why they try to twist it like that.

It would be interesting to see how I would act myself if Liara was given only a small role or just a cameo in ME3, would I be raging too..

[Barquiel]

hhh89 wrote...

I think he's saying that Liara should've burnt Shepard's body.

Liara gave Shepard the opportunity to decide for herself...and I think this makes more sense than assuming Shepard would rather be a pile of ash than doing some work for cerberus. She can't ask Shep in that situation.

[CrutchCricket]

Ryzaki wrote...
Uh...right the fact that they rebuilt the Normandy (for their own purposes mind) and Shep (same reason) is totally not them working for their own benefit.

Oh boy. So we're gonna use that actually happened as evidence of what Shep should/shouldn't be concerned about now? I suppose Shep shouldn't give a damn about the Council's "Ah yes "Reapers."." or concentrating on Sovie vs saving the DA because hey the Reapers are gonna be defeated regardless!

Meh mutual gain.

And no I refer to no inevitability. But by the time you met Liara the control chip issue had already been dealt with. Thus there is no reason to get pissed about it.

[Ryzaki]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Meh mutual gain.

And no I refer to no inevitability. But by the time you met Liara the control chip issue had already been dealt with. Thus there is no reason to get pissed about it.

Depending on the Shep.

Except that's not the only thing my Shep's pissed about. It's a combination of factors. Is it 100% logical? No but feelings rarely are. Neither was Liara's decision to hand Shep over to cerberus of all people.

I just disagree about the "OMG SHEP IS SO DUMB IF HE DISLIKES LIARA!" assertion.

[alex90c]

Korkki wrote...

Thank you for great answers guys! That was just something that has puzzled me for some time.

I have to agree with CrutchCricket here, that even if this whole BSN (and all the other forums like this) exist because of us fans (because otherwise there would be no users here) but at the same time we are the ones who cause all the problems and arguments and nothing is ever good enough for us. I guess no matter how reasonable you try to be, every fan is biased, you can't help it, it just comes with being a fan. But maybe the difference is, if you're even trying to see the big picture or not.

I also understand that some people are really frustrated because their favourite character got a smaller role than they wanted. But venting that aggression by telling how they're going to kill all the characters they dislike is just stupid and childish, that is just too much imo. And some people should remember that ME is after all just a game. It's fictional story and that means all the characters as well as their roles are made up. How could a character get a role too big or important in a fictional story, even if that character was replaced with other character, the whole thing would be still made up. But yes, I understand why they try to twist it like that.

It would be interesting to see how I would act myself if Liara was given only a small role or just a cameo in ME3, would I be raging too..

The thing is, I don't really like Jacob, Thane, Miranda or Zaeed but I don't actually try to go out of my way to kill them (or be rude ... 8 playthroughs later and I haven't been mean to Jacob once). I just can't understand why people would, it just seems so petty.

[Trinity66]

This is just pointless, people are complaining about anything. I could complain about all squaddies, hell I wanted to shoot Jack on sight when I first met her or at least not recruit her, but I had no choice! That goes also for Miranda, if there was a choice, she wouldn't be in my team. And when Liara got that few sec scene in ME2 i was disapointed, but I never raged on other squaddies and start complaining on forums "Why Talimancers got Tali in the team again, but not Liara, and they could **** her or whatever". I have never argue about any squad member, if Tali or someone else had "plot armor" instead of Liara, i wouldn't mind. Why should I? Aa long as I can talk to Liara, take her in my team and stuff I don't care if Tali can't die.
Just go complain somewhere else.

[CrutchCricket]

Ryzaki wrote...
Depending on the Shep.

Except that's not the only thing my Shep's pissed about. It's a combination of factors. Is it 100% logical? No but feelings rarely are. Neither was Liara's decision to hand Shep over to cerberus of all people.

I just disagree about the "OMG SHEP IS SO DUMB IF HE DISLIKES LIARA!" assertion.

All Sheps want to stop the Collectors and in so doing hurt the Reapers.

And maybe Shepard's baseline is leaning more towards the logical? I know people can role play and headcannon differently but when it comes down to it there are a few things that are nailed down and apply across the board.

I hope no intelligent person would make that assertion seriously. But I don't think that's what we were talking about. Anyway I think we've defined what we'll agree and disagree on. Perhaps it's time to move on.

[Trinity66]

Ryzaki wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...
Meh mutual gain.

And no I refer to no inevitability. But by the time you met Liara the control chip issue had already been dealt with. Thus there is no reason to get pissed about it.

Depending on the Shep.

Except that's not the only thing my Shep's pissed about. It's a combination of factors. Is it 100% logical? No but feelings rarely are. Neither was Liara's decision to hand Shep over to cerberus of all people.

I just disagree about the "OMG SHEP IS SO DUMB IF HE DISLIKES LIARA!" assertion.

If you don't like the Liara for giving your body to Cerberus, then don't play ME2. Problem solved.

[Yuqi]

Ryzaki wrote...

Trinity66 wrote...

You actually came to Liara thread to moan more?

Nah came to the Liara thread because I was bored.

Childish...

[CrutchCricket]

The previous 2 replies really aren't helping. Let's try to keep this in discussion mode and not irrational attack mode please.

[Korkki]

alex90c wrote...

The thing is, I don't really like Jacob, Thane, Miranda or Zaeed but I don't actually try to go out of my way to kill them (or be rude ... 8 playthroughs later and I haven't been mean to Jacob once). I just can't understand why people would, it just seems so petty.

I like this human, he understands.

You know that's the thing. Even if I'm usually pretty good at talking hypothethicals and placing myself in other people's situation I just can't understand why you would kill or be mean to a character or anything like that on purpose. What's the gain, do they get some kind of pleasure when they pick a mean dialog option when talking to a character they dislike? Does it turn their ME universe into a better place when they manage to kill someone during the SM?

And yes, I admit it too, I don't really like Jack, Miranda or Zaeed, and Jacob is just meh.

[Ryzaki]

CrutchCricket wrote...
All Sheps want to stop the Collectors and in so doing hurt the Reapers.

And maybe Shepard's baseline is leaning more towards the logical? I know people can role play and headcannon differently but when it comes down to it there are a few things that are nailed down and apply across the board.

I hope no intelligent person would make that assertion seriously. But I don't think that's what we were talking about. Anyway I think we've defined what we'll agree and disagree on. Perhaps it's time to move on.

Um...no. That's *one* of their goals. not even remotely all they want to do. And in truth Shep does more to hurt the Reapers in Arrival (something given by the Alliance) than all of ME2.

Yeah and how Shep feels about his resurrection is *not* one of them (given the leaked script). Plus...Shep's baseline is logical? You *did* play ME1 right? 

"Yeah I should totally keep this to myself. I can't convince the council with dreams." 

"THE REAPERS ARE COMING YO!" 

Really?  Yeah it is perhaps time to move on. *shrugs*

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 décembre 2011 - 10:19 .

[CrutchCricket]

Ryzaki wrote...
Um...no. That's *one* of their goals. not even remotely all they want to do.

Yeah and how Shep feels about his resurrection is *not* one of them (given the leaked script).

Really?  Yeah it is perhaps time to move on. *shrugs*

Who said it was all they wanted to do?

Wait you're not busting out antecedant data to validate a previous point are you? What you didn't want me doing earlier?

Other than that I'm ready to move on.

[Ryzaki]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Who said it was all they wanted to do?

Wait you're not busting out antecedant data to validate a previous point are you? What you didn't want me doing earlier?

Other than that I'm ready to move on.

No one did I read that wrong. Sorry.

What antecedant data am I using? I didn't want you using it to invalidate how Shep should feel about his resurrection. Now if you simply said it was a bad decision sure whatever.

Sure.

[Ammonite]

alex90c wrote...
The thing is, I don't really like Jacob, Thane, Miranda or Zaeed but I don't actually try to go out of my way to kill them (or be rude ... 8 playthroughs later and I haven't been mean to Jacob once). I just can't understand why people would, it just seems so petty.

What I think disliking "plot armor" really comes down to.

[Trinity66]

[CrutchCricket]

How Shepard feels about his resurrection in the leak is irrelevant (in more ways than one) to how he felt during the Liara portion of ME2. That information was not available to either Shepard or us at the time.

And we're good!

[Ryzaki]

CrutchCricket wrote...

How Shepard feels about his resurrection in the leak is irrelevant (in more ways than one) to how he felt during the Liara portion of ME2. That information was not available to either Shepard or us at the time.

And we're good!

What? How is knowing he was brought back from the dead and not feeling comfortable in his skin irrevleant?  Heck one should say he'd be more concerned in ME2 because he knows less about it and doesn't even have the stress test of disobeying TIM (that he gets if he destroys the CB) to make sure there's really not a Control chip in his head.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 décembre 2011 - 10:26 .

[Korkki]

Trinity66 wrote...

Happy Liara is happy Thank you Trinity!

Modifié par Korkki, 05 décembre 2011 - 10:35 .

[Trinity66]

Ryzaki wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

How Shepard feels about his resurrection in the leak is irrelevant (in more ways than one) to how he felt during the Liara portion of ME2. That information was not available to either Shepard or us at the time.

And we're good!

What? How is knowing he was brought back from the dead and not feeling comfortable in his skin irrevleant?  Heck one should say he'd be more concerned in ME2 because he knows less about it and doesn't even have the stress test of disobeying TIM (that he gets if he destroys the CB) to make sure there's really not a Control chip in his head.

I feel bad for your Shepard, how he or she can live with so much burden 
"My" Shepard feels better then ever. 

Now, stop complaining already, I beg you.

[CrutchCricket]

Ryzaki wrote...
What? How is knowing he was brought back from the dead and not feeling comfortable in his skin irrevleant?  Heck one should say he'd be more concerned in ME2 because he knows less about it and doesn't even have the stress test of disobeying TIM (that he gets if he destroys the CB) to make sure there's really not a Control chip in his head.

That information did not exist when ME2 came out. For all intents and purposes Shepard did not feel that way at the time. Basically you can't use the leak to justify something that happened before it.