56464 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Korkki wrote...
Just a quick question for you guys, completely out of curiosity. Since I haven't explored BSN outside the Liara thread that much, is this whole hatred thing just about Liara or team dextro or other ME1 characters who have been given a big role in ME3? Because honestly I haven't heard a single word about anyone who would really post these hate comments about ME2 Characters, or have I just completely missed those?   Ofc there are people who don't necessarily like those ME2 characters but I haven't seen that they would hate them in the same scale like the people who passionately hate Liara for example.

So is all this stupid hatred thing just because some ME2 character fans didn't get their favourite character as a permanent squad member or is there more to it? Because I just can't understand that kind of hatred, I have no reason to hate any particular character even if I don't equally like them.

You don't? Just imagine this: you are a Miranda fan and do *not* dislike Liara. But in ME3, every time you walk into Miranda's office your face is pushed into the extremely unpleasant fact that Miranda isn't there and Liara occupies her room. Then you consider that Liara's character has been "developed" to change from reclusive archaeologist to competent information broker a very unconvincing way in order to make her the SB in ME2, which gives her the role of primary intelligencer for Shepard which would, without that contrivance, have fallen to Miranda, too. Add that Miranda's plot potential as a connection to Cerberus is apparently completely ignored in order to give her a smaller role in ME3. Wouldn't that change your feelings somewhat?

I think we have very good reasons for our resentment. Personally, I won't kill anyone for such a reason but I have a hard time differentiating between my feelings about the character and my feelings about how she was favored by the writers in various contrived ways. It's like Bioware telling me "you made the wrong choice". Bad enough having to deal with that in regard to some Renegade decisions, now we also get it with regard to characters. It is infuriating.


Edit:
I agree it's stupid to hold what Liara did with Shepard's body against her.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 05 décembre 2011 - 10:36 .

[Ryzaki]

CrutchCricket wrote...
That information did not exist when ME2 came out. For all intents and purposes Shepard did not feel that way at the time. Basically you can't use the leak to justify something that happened before it.

Uh what? 

So you're saying Shep not vocalizing his/her feelings about something at the current moment means he/she didn't feel them at all?

Because if so uh...I really don't have anything to say to that other than...really?

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 décembre 2011 - 10:36 .

[Korkki]

And seriously c'mon now, every Shepard's main goal is to defeat the reapers and break the cycle right? So this in mind it's irrelevant to argue whether it was right or wrong to bring Shepard back. The whole point in this trilogy is to kill the reapers and you can't do that whileyou're dead. It's completely different thing how Shepard feels about being brought back, how and by who, but that's something we get to know in ME3 perhaps (no spoilers thank you!) These are the cards the devs gave us and now we just have to play with them. You can't change the fact that Shep died and was brought back to life by Cerberus.

Modifié par Korkki, 05 décembre 2011 - 10:36 .

[CrutchCricket]

Ryzaki wrote...
Uh what? 

So you're saying Shep not vocalizing his/her feelings about something at the current moment means he/she didn't feel them at all? 

Nope I'm saying don't use the leak as proof he had those feelings in ME2.

[Ryzaki]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Nope I'm saying don't use the leak as proof he had those feelings in ME2.

You can't use ME2 as proof he didn't feel those feelings then either though.

[naledgeborn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

You don't? Just imagine this: you are a Miranda fan and do *not* dislike Liara. But in ME3, every time you walk into Miranda's office your face is pushed into the extremely unpleasant fact that Miranda isn't there and Liara occupies her room. Then you consider that Liara's character has been "developed" to change from reclusive archaeologist to competent information broker a very unconvincing way in order to make her the SB in ME2, which gives her the role of primary intelligencer for Shepard which would, without that contrivance, have fallen to Miranda, too. Add that Miranda's plot potential as a connection to Cerberus is apparently completely ignored in order to give her a smaller role in ME3. Wouldn't that change your feelings somewhat?

I think we have very good reasons for our resentment. Personally, I won't kill anyone for such a reason but I have a hard time differentiating between my feelings about the character and my feelings about how she was favored by the writers in various contrived ways. It's like Bioware telling me "you made the wrong choice". Bad enough having to deal with that in regard to some Renegade decisions, now we also get it with regard to characters. It is infuriating.


Edit:
I agree it's stupid to hold what Liara did with Shepard's body against her.

It's like this guy is a mind reader.

[CrutchCricket]

Sure I can. Because ME2 happened. I can use past events to make deductions. I can't use future events (from the point of view of the claim I'm arguing) to support said claim.

[Trinity66]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Korkki wrote...
Just a quick question for you guys, completely out of curiosity. Since I haven't explored BSN outside the Liara thread that much, is this whole hatred thing just about Liara or team dextro or other ME1 characters who have been given a big role in ME3? Because honestly I haven't heard a single word about anyone who would really post these hate comments about ME2 Characters, or have I just completely missed those?   Ofc there are people who don't necessarily like those ME2 characters but I haven't seen that they would hate them in the same scale like the people who passionately hate Liara for example.

So is all this stupid hatred thing just because some ME2 character fans didn't get their favourite character as a permanent squad member or is there more to it? Because I just can't understand that kind of hatred, I have no reason to hate any particular character even if I don't equally like them.

You don't? Just imagine this: you are a Miranda fan and do *not* dislike Liara. But in ME3, every time you walk into Miranda's office your face is pushed into the extremely unpleasant fact that Miranda isn't there and Liara occupies her room. Then you consider that Liara's character has been "developed" to change from reclusive archaeologist to competent information broker a very unconvincing way in order to make her the SB in ME2, which gives her the role of primary intelligencer for Shepard which would, without that contrivance, have fallen to Miranda, too. Add that Miranda's plot potential as a connection to Cerberus is apparently completely ignored in order to give her a smaller role in ME3. Wouldn't that change your feelings somewhat?

I think we have very good reasons for our resentment. Personally, I won't kill anyone for such a reason but I have a hard time differentiating between my feelings about the character and my feelings about how she was favored by the writers in various contrived ways. It's like Bioware telling me "you made the wrong choice". Bad enough having to deal with that in regard to some Renegade decisions, now we also get it with regard to characters. It is infuriating.

Tell me, why do you think it should be otherwise or why Liara doesn't deserve to be SB. You like one squadmate and if that one won't get attention you desire then others should not? Some characters are more important to story its just the way it is. Someone must help shepard to defeat reapers, now if that person is someone you don't want to see, that your problem. What did Miranda possibly do for shepard? Nothing. Liara helped shepard in many ways. And still if Liara wouldn't have huge roll in Me3 and Miranda would, I wouldn't give a damn. I just want to continue my romance with Liara and have her in my team.

[alex90c]

naledgeborn wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

You don't? Just imagine this: you are a Miranda fan and do *not* dislike Liara. But in ME3, every time you walk into Miranda's office your face is pushed into the extremely unpleasant fact that Miranda isn't there and Liara occupies her room. Then you consider that Liara's character has been "developed" to change from reclusive archaeologist to competent information broker a very unconvincing way in order to make her the SB in ME2, which gives her the role of primary intelligencer for Shepard which would, without that contrivance, have fallen to Miranda, too. Add that Miranda's plot potential as a connection to Cerberus is apparently completely ignored in order to give her a smaller role in ME3. Wouldn't that change your feelings somewhat?

I think we have very good reasons for our resentment. Personally, I won't kill anyone for such a reason but I have a hard time differentiating between my feelings about the character and my feelings about how she was favored by the writers in various contrived ways. It's like Bioware telling me "you made the wrong choice". Bad enough having to deal with that in regard to some Renegade decisions, now we also get it with regard to characters. It is infuriating.


Edit:
I agree it's stupid to hold what Liara did with Shepard's body against her.

It's like this guy is a mind reader.

Hey man, how's it going? :)

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Korkki wrote...
I like this human, he understands.

You know that's the thing. Even if I'm usually pretty good at talking hypothethicals and placing myself in other people's situation I just can't understand why you would kill or be mean to a character or anything like that on purpose. What's the gain, do they get some kind of pleasure when they pick a mean dialog option when talking to a character they dislike? Does it turn their ME universe into a better place when they manage to kill someone during the SM?

And yes, I admit it too, I don't really like Jack, Miranda or Zaeed, and Jacob is just meh.

Ummm ...... Yeah? :innocent:

Don't tell me you never wanted to murder a fictional character for being bloody obnoxius, like Jar Jar Binks for example.

[Korkki]

Ieldra2 wrote...

You don't? Just imagine this: you are a Miranda fan and do *not* dislike Liara. But in ME3, every time you walk into Miranda's office your face is pushed into the extremely unpleasant fact that Miranda isn't there and Liara occupies her room.

You mean like Legion is now in the same room Liara used to be in ME1, in the back of the Med Bay, and still I'm not complaining how Legion has occupied Liara's quarters. And is it a reason to hate Liara when some writer has decided to put her there.

[naledgeborn]

alex90c wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

You don't? Just imagine this: you are a Miranda fan and do *not* dislike Liara. But in ME3, every time you walk into Miranda's office your face is pushed into the extremely unpleasant fact that Miranda isn't there and Liara occupies her room. Then you consider that Liara's character has been "developed" to change from reclusive archaeologist to competent information broker a very unconvincing way in order to make her the SB in ME2, which gives her the role of primary intelligencer for Shepard which would, without that contrivance, have fallen to Miranda, too. Add that Miranda's plot potential as a connection to Cerberus is apparently completely ignored in order to give her a smaller role in ME3. Wouldn't that change your feelings somewhat?

I think we have very good reasons for our resentment. Personally, I won't kill anyone for such a reason but I have a hard time differentiating between my feelings about the character and my feelings about how she was favored by the writers in various contrived ways. It's like Bioware telling me "you made the wrong choice". Bad enough having to deal with that in regard to some Renegade decisions, now we also get it with regard to characters. It is infuriating.


Edit:
I agree it's stupid to hold what Liara did with Shepard's body against her.

It's like this guy is a mind reader.

Hey man, how's it going? :)

Fine, thanks!  Is your ass sore from all the dickriding you're doing? No need to answer, rhetorical question.

[Ryzaki]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Sure I can. Because ME2 happened. I can use past events to make deductions. I can't use future events (from the point of view of the claim I'm arguing) to support said claim.

Uh no no you can't because Shep never said how he felt about the Lazarus project one way or the other. A future event however where shep *does* say this this point some evidence in him feeling this way the whole time. (provided you pick said option. How shep feels about Lazarus is *optional*.)  

It's like having someone who never mentioned suicide killing themselves and then you say "oh they must've only felt suicidal when they killed themselves because they never said anything." 

Feelings don't work that way.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 décembre 2011 - 10:49 .

[Trinity66]

Suddenly I realized I hate my whole Me2 team, because most of them are sitting in offices of my Me1 team.




Well, I'm joking btw.

[Korkki]

Lizardviking wrote...

Ummm ...... Yeah? :innocent:

Don't tell me you never wanted to murder a fictional character for being bloody obnoxius, like Jar Jar Binks for example.

Jar Jar Binks was made for children and I was a kid the last time I watched Episode 1 (yeah I know it has been a little while), so no

Okay okay, maybe there has been some characters that have made me feel "seriously dude get the f*ck out of my face, I just can't stand you"  during these years I've been playing video games, but I've never wanted to kill a fictional character because of that, at least not that I would remember . But there aren't any that kind of characters that I just described, in ME universe, characters I would hate I mean. I dunno, maybe I'm just ultimate real life paragon for not wanting to kill and very rarely hating irritating video game/movie characters

Modifié par Korkki, 05 décembre 2011 - 10:58 .

[CrutchCricket]

Ryzaki wrote...
Uh no no you can't because Shep never said how he felt about the Lazarus project one way or the other. A future event however where shep *does* say this this point some evidence in him feeling this way the whole time. (provided you pick said option. How shep feels about Lazarus is *optional*.)  

It's like having someone who never mentioned suicide killing themselves and then you say "oh they must've only felt suicidal when they killed themselves because they never said anything." 

Feelings don't work that way.

Not necessarily. He may have come to feel that way but that does not mean he felt that way all the time. By that reasoning the person who commits suicide was suicidal his whole life because he never said otherwise.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Korkki wrote...
Jar Jar Binks was made for children and I was a kid the last time I watched Episode 1 (yeah I know it has been a little while), so no

Okay okay, maybe there has been some characters that have made me feel "seriously dude get the f*ck out of my face, I just can't stand you"  during these years I've been playing video games, but I've never wanted to kill a fictional character because of that, at least not that I would remember . But there aren't any that kind of characters that I just described, in ME universe, characters I would hate I mean. I dunno, maybe I'm just ultimate real life paragon for not wanting to kill irritating and very rarely hating video game/movie characters

Replace Jar Jar with Anakin Skywalker (both kid and older version) if you are going to pull the "It's for kids" card.

But honestly. I feel certain characters from ME2 are pretty much the mass effect equalivant of Jar Jar or Anakin. The story is better off without them.

[Trinity66]

You know what. Liara will be in Me3, she will be squaddie and will have big role it seems. Now, you can either deal with it or forget about ME3 if that bothers you so much.

[Ryzaki]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Not necessarily. He may have come to feel that way but that does not mean he felt that way all the time. By that reasoning the person who commits suicide was suicidal his whole life because he never said otherwise.

EXACTLY

Which is why BW has the option on how your Shep feels. Mine feels that way in ME2! Yours may be perfectly fine!

Differences peeps! Differences!

Trying to go "well Shep didn't say he felt X so clearly he didn't." is equally as silly as saying "well Shep didn't say he felt X so clearly he did." It's player interpretation and trying to force how your Shep may have felt on someone else's Shep does not work.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 décembre 2011 - 11:03 .

[Eclipse_9990]

Ryzaki wrote...

@Mass Storm: because clearly Shep should be bowing at Liara's feet for her handing him him over to a terrorist organiztion that was seriously considering putting a control chip in his head right? 

You like Liara and like that she saved Shep? Fine whatever. Just don't try to turn your nose and act like all other interpretations are stupid.

Who else would have had the tech, resources, and willingness to restore Shep? If I died, and was brought back I wouldn't give a crap who brought me back to life.

Also it wasn't the organization that considered the control chip it was just Miranda, and that request was ignored anyway. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 05 décembre 2011 - 11:03 .

[Ryzaki]

@Eclipse_9990 : Miranda was Cerberus head on the Lazarus project. I'm pretty sure her word had serious weight and was only stopped because TIM said no.

And yes if *you* died. You are not everyone. Everyone will not want to be brought back to life in a body that is only a cheap imitation of their original one. Those people would not necessarily be suicidal either. It varies from person to person and I'm sick and damn tired of different views being seen as stupid. It's tiresome.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 décembre 2011 - 11:09 .

[Korkki]

Lizardviking wrote...

Replace Jar Jar with Anakin Skywalker (both kid and older version) if you are going to pull the "It's for kids" card.

But honestly. I feel certain characters from ME2 are pretty much the mass effect equalivant of Jar Jar or Anakin. The story is better off without them.

Nah, I'm not that big star wars fan, I've watched all the movies but that's pretty much it. I know very little about the SW universe and stuff... That "it's for kids" is mostly just what I've heard from other people and now when I used it, it was supposed to be something humourous, don't take it so seriously

I don't wanna start a SW debate of any kind because I know basicly nothing about it.

[PMC65]

*opens thread without reading posts for fear of spoilers*

To my pals without twitter ...





@missalihillis Ali Hillis

I've missed you, Commander. RT @jhaletweets: Hangin in Mass Effect universe. ahhhhhh...

I hope that all of you are doing well! Come on March!

*closes thread to avoid spoilers*

[Eclipse_9990]

Ryzaki wrote...

@Eclipse_9990 : Miranda was Cerberus head researcher. I'm pretty sure her word had serious weight and was only stopped because TIM said no.

And yes if *you* died. You are not everyone. Everyone will not want to be brought back to life in a body that is only a cheap imitation of their original one. Those people would not necessarily be suicidal either. It varies from person to person and I'm sick and damn tired of different views being seen as stupid. It's tiresome.

Calm down; I never said your view was stupid. Also Shep was/is pretty much obsessed with stopping the Reaper threat doesn't matter if you're Renegade or Paragon. I very much doubt he'd mind being brought back to life especially if it means he can continue to fight the Reapers. Also we're playing shep who is his own character yes we can guide him, and make certain decisions for him, but he's still his own character, and he obviously didn't have a problem with being rezzed. 

I'm sure some people would love to have the option to have a shep that suddenly doesn't give two f**ks about the reaper threat, but thats not the way it works. Just like Shep (apparently)doesn't give a crap that he was brought back to life. 

[CrutchCricket]

Korkki wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Replace Jar Jar with Anakin Skywalker (both kid and older version) if you are going to pull the "It's for kids" card.

But honestly. I feel certain characters from ME2 are pretty much the mass effect equalivant of Jar Jar or Anakin. The story is better off without them.

Nah, I'm not that big star wars fan, I've watched all the movies but that's pretty much it. I know very little about the SW universe and stuff... That "it's for kids" is mostly just what I've heard from other people and now when I used it, it was supposed to be something humourous, don't take it so seriously

I don't wanna start a SW debate of any kind because I know basicly nothing about it.

Know that if you compare any fictional character to Jar-Jar, fans of that character will likely want to clumsily rearrange your intestines with a spork.

Just as a cautionary note...