Ieldra2 wrote...
You don't? Just imagine this: you are a Miranda fan and do *not* dislike Liara. But in ME3, every time you walk into Miranda's office your face is pushed into the extremely unpleasant fact that Miranda isn't there and Liara occupies her room.
Eclipse_9990 wrote..
Calm down; I never said your view was stupid. Also Shep was/is pretty much obsessed with stopping the Reaper threat doesn't matter if you're Renegade or Paragon. I very much doubt he'd mind being brought back to life especially if it means he can continue to fight the Reapers. Also we're playing shep who is his own character yes we can guide him, and make certain decisions for him, but he's still his own character, and he obviously didn't have a problem with being rezzed.
I'm sure some people would love to have the option to have a shep that suddenly doesn't give two f**ks about the reaper threat, but thats not the way it works. Just like Shep (apparently)doesn't give a crap that he was brought back to life.
Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 décembre 2011 - 11:17 .
CrutchCricket wrote...
Know that if you compare any fictional character to Jar-Jar, fans of that character will likely want to clumsily rearrange your intestines with a spork.
Just as a cautionary note...
but.. did I accidentaly compare some character to Jar Jar? If I did that wasn't my intention 
Or did you just give that as a simple advice for future?
Korkki wrote...
CrutchCricket wrote...
Know that if you compare any fictional character to Jar-Jar, fans of that character will likely want to clumsily rearrange your intestines with a spork.
Just as a cautionary note...
Thanks for the advice!
Nope Lizardviking did. You said you didn't know much about Star Wars but if there's one thing to note within this context is that Jar-Jar is one of the most hated characters of our modern times. I'm pretty sure there have been expys of Hitler that have been better recieved.Korkki wrote...
CrutchCricket wrote...
Know that if you compare any fictional character to Jar-Jar, fans of that character will likely want to clumsily rearrange your intestines with a spork.
Just as a cautionary note...
Thanks for the advice!
Modifié par CrutchCricket, 05 décembre 2011 - 11:21 .
Pinkflu wrote...
Arguments against Liara handing Shep to Cerberus fall to pieces under the weight of three facts:
1) Shepard is the only person capable of stopping the reapers,
2) Cerberus was the only organisation willing to attempt to bring Shepard back,
3) Liara had no way of knowing in what condition Shepard would come back in if Cerberus did revive her, but knew for sure what condition she'd stay in if Liara didn't hand her over; dead. And the reapers would be unchallenged. And everyone dies.
So giving Shepard to Cerberus was absolutely the morally correct thing to do. It wasn't a perfect solution, it was the only solution.
Which isn't to say that a big factor of it wasn't selfishness on Liara's part - I don't know if you never romanced her, but if you did she admits that she handed Shep over because she couldn't let go. Which, personally, I like - a bit of selfishness makes her a well-rounded character, in my opinion.
Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 décembre 2011 - 11:24 .
Liara went after Shepards body to make sure Shepard was really dead or not, and if she was to give her a proper burial, she had no plans to give the body to Cerberus to bring back to life until afetr Cerberus told her what they wanted to do and it was a hard choice for Liara.Ryzaki wrote...
Pinkflu wrote...
Arguments against Liara handing Shep to Cerberus fall to pieces under the weight of three facts:
1) Shepard is the only person capable of stopping the reapers,
2) Cerberus was the only organisation willing to attempt to bring Shepard back,
3) Liara had no way of knowing in what condition Shepard would come back in if Cerberus did revive her, but knew for sure what condition she'd stay in if Liara didn't hand her over; dead. And the reapers would be unchallenged. And everyone dies.
So giving Shepard to Cerberus was absolutely the morally correct thing to do. It wasn't a perfect solution, it was the only solution.
Which isn't to say that a big factor of it wasn't selfishness on Liara's part - I don't know if you never romanced her, but if you did she admits that she handed Shep over because she couldn't let go. Which, personally, I like - a bit of selfishness makes her a well-rounded character, in my opinion.
! & 2 is metagaming. The only reason Shep is the only person capable of stopping the Reapers is because the game made it so. If the game wanted to it'd make it so Conrad was the key to stopping the Reapers.
3. Same issue
As for morally correct. Again I don't agree. The morally correct thing to do as far as I'm concerned is to leave Shep dead. He/she knew the risks when s/he went to save Joker.
Modifié par Mr.House, 05 décembre 2011 - 11:24 .
Mr.House wrote...
Liara went after Shepards body to make sure Shepard was really dead or not, and if she was to give her a proper burial, she had no plans to give the body to Cerberus to bring back to life until afetr Cerberus told her what they wanted to do and it was a hard choice for Liara.
Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 décembre 2011 - 11:26 .
You seem to think it was easy for Liara to make that choice.Ryzaki wrote...
Mr.House wrote...
Liara went after Shepards body to make sure Shepard was really dead or not, and if she was to give her a proper burial, she had no plans to give the body to Cerberus to bring back to life until afetr Cerberus told her what they wanted to do and it was a hard choice for Liara.
And she still decided to give Shep's body over to a known terrorist organization and made no plans to make sure Shep wouldn't become a tool for them. Sorry but I'm not really feeling all that inclined to look upon that favorably. To me it's like "See it all worked out for the best!" Just...no Liara. No.
Mr.House wrote...
You seem to think it was easy for Liara to make that choice.
Pinkflu wrote...
Arguments against Liara handing Shep to Cerberus fall to pieces under the weight of three facts:
1) Shepard is the only person capable of stopping the reapers,
2) Cerberus was the only organisation willing to attempt to bring Shepard back,
3) Liara had no way of knowing in what condition Shepard would come back in if Cerberus did revive her, but knew for sure what condition she'd stay in if Liara didn't hand her over; dead. And the reapers would be unchallenged. And everyone dies.
So giving Shepard to Cerberus was absolutely the morally correct thing to do. It wasn't a perfect solution, it was the only solution.
Which isn't to say that a big factor of it wasn't selfishness on Liara's part - I don't know if you never romanced her, but if you did she admits that she handed Shep over because she couldn't let go. Which, personally, I like - a bit of selfishness makes her a well-rounded character, in my opinion.
Korkki wrote...
Ryzaki, now I don't really understand. Would you prefer that Liara wouldn't have recovered Shepard's body and given it to Cerberus for rebuilding? Can you explain? The devs decided that Shep dies at the beginning of ME2, so only possible solution to continue this trilogy is to bring Shepard back, right?
Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 décembre 2011 - 11:37 .
Ryzaki wrote...
Mr.House wrote...
Liara went after Shepards body to make sure Shepard was really dead or not, and if she was to give her a proper burial, she had no plans to give the body to Cerberus to bring back to life until afetr Cerberus told her what they wanted to do and it was a hard choice for Liara.
And she still decided to give Shep's body over to a known terrorist organization and made no plans to make sure Shep wouldn't become a tool for them. Sorry but I'm not really feeling all that inclined to look upon that favorably. To me it's like "See it all worked out for the best!" Just...no Liara. No.
Ryzaki wrote...
Eclipse_9990 wrote..
Calm down; I never said your view was stupid. Also Shep was/is pretty much obsessed with stopping the Reaper threat doesn't matter if you're Renegade or Paragon. I very much doubt he'd mind being brought back to life especially if it means he can continue to fight the Reapers. Also we're playing shep who is his own character yes we can guide him, and make certain decisions for him, but he's still his own character, and he obviously didn't have a problem with being rezzed.
I'm sure some people would love to have the option to have a shep that suddenly doesn't give two f**ks about the reaper threat, but thats not the way it works. Just like Shep (apparently)doesn't give a crap that he was brought back to life.
You didn't. Some in this thread did and that's what got me agitated. And your Shep not minding being brought back to life isn't everyone's Shep. Mine did mind but he didn't want others to suffer if he could stop it.
Why because he doesn't say anything? That's pretty faulty logic. You don't have to be constantly wangsting for something to bother you. Otherwise I guess SS Shep doesn't care about working with Cerberus and Akuze means nothing to him seeing as he never mentions it.
I never wanted a Shep that didn't give a crap about the Reaper threat. I wanted a Shep that expressed how he felt about the Lazarus project and Cerberus that was delegated to a few throwaway "I don't trust them." lines.
Pinkflu wrote...
Ryzaki wrote...
Mr.House wrote...
Liara went after Shepards body to make sure Shepard was really dead or not, and if she was to give her a proper burial, she had no plans to give the body to Cerberus to bring back to life until afetr Cerberus told her what they wanted to do and it was a hard choice for Liara.
And she still decided to give Shep's body over to a known terrorist organization and made no plans to make sure Shep wouldn't become a tool for them. Sorry but I'm not really feeling all that inclined to look upon that favorably. To me it's like "See it all worked out for the best!" Just...no Liara. No.
More a case of, 'It might work out for the best, but it definately won't if I do nothing.' A slim chance is better than nothing.
Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 05 décembre 2011 - 11:38 .
Ryzaki wrote...
Korkki wrote...
Ryzaki, now I don't really understand. Would you prefer that Liara wouldn't have recovered Shepard's body and given it to Cerberus for rebuilding? Can you explain? The devs decided that Shep dies at the beginning of ME2, so only possible solution to continue this trilogy is to bring Shepard back, right?
Nope. I don't care what she did with the body. My issue is with not being able to RP my Shep as doing anything other than agreeing with her or acting like a chastized child when she gives her reasoning.
Pinkflu wrote...
More a case of, 'It might work out for the best, but it definately won't if I do nothing.' A slim chance is better than nothing.
I disagree that knowing Shepard is the only one able to stop the Reapers is metagaming. Liara knows better than anyone how true it is - a large part of the citadel/alliance fleets were destroyed by Sovereign alone, and the only reason why everyone didn't kick the collective galactic bucket right then was because of Shepard.
It's not only Shepard's abilities, leadership and otherwise, that make her the only opposition to the Reapers, it's primarily her willingness to believe in the threat in the first place. To take it seriously. And so does Liara. Why wouldn't she? She melded with Shepard and saw the Prothean message for herself, several times.
Shepard was the only one expecting the Reapers, and the only one looking to do anything about it. Until Cerberus came along, of course.
BlueMagitek wrote...
The problem is, you can pick up a completely delusional Liara who then has a bit of a breakdown and you can be rude to her. Outside of some sort of creepy obsession, she doesn't have a reason to want to bring Shepard back to life
Modifié par Barquiel, 05 décembre 2011 - 11:43 .
Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Shep can mind working for Cerberus if you want him to. He has quite a bit of opportunities to voice his displeasure for them. There was one real moment when he discussed being brought back to life, and thats when he was talking with Jacob. If you talk to to him Jacob mentions if you got any upgrades when you were brought back to life, and Shep can respond "I'm glad enough they brought be up to snuff, but it couldn't hurt to keep some spare parts handy though." Yes this is one response, and I suppose it can be interpreted in different ways, but I don't see any negatives in what he said.
I can understand that you would want the option for Shep to voice his displeasure for the project; its always good to have options like that, but the fact of the matter is he doesnt have that option.. So it can be assumed that he doesn't care or mind that he was brought back to life, or it could be that he does mind but doesn't want to bring it up.
Ryzaki wrote...
Korkki wrote...
Ryzaki, now I don't really understand. Would you prefer that Liara wouldn't have recovered Shepard's body and given it to Cerberus for rebuilding? Can you explain? The devs decided that Shep dies at the beginning of ME2, so only possible solution to continue this trilogy is to bring Shepard back, right?
Nope. I don't care what she did with the body. My issue is with not being able to RP my Shep as doing anything other than agreeing with her or acting like a chastized child when she gives her reasoning. (I'm debating alternating between my Shep's POV (had no right to use his body) and mine (Just want to be able to discuss it).
Frankly I know what she did was necessary to move the plot along. My Shep and Liara don't know that though and should not act as such.
Korkki wrote...
Okay, thanks, now I see better what you mean. I undertand what you're trying to say here, and I kind of agree with this "you weren't able to say what you think about being brought back" and there were some other situations in ME2 as well where you were'nt able to say what you think. But I fail to see what this has to do with Liara. And this is still kinda irrelevant, because even Shepard knows, hes/she is basicly the only person who at the same time takes the threat seriously and is able to unite the galaxy. But that's just my opinion though, maybe I'm just not RPing it enough.
Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 décembre 2011 - 11:54 .
Barquiel wrote...
BlueMagitek wrote...
The problem is, you can pick up a completely delusional Liara who then has a bit of a breakdown and you can be rude to her. Outside of some sort of creepy obsession, she doesn't have a reason to want to bring Shepard back to life
Liara is sceptical at first but TIM convinced her: We want Shepard.s remains..but it's vital that the collectors not have them. Whatever their reasons are, they can't be any good. Which is why we need you."
I think that's an good argument, even if Liara and Shep were not very close in ME1.
Ryzaki wrote...
Korkki wrote...
Okay, thanks, now I see better what you mean. I undertand what you're trying to say here, and I kind of agree with this "you weren't able to say what you think about being brought back" and there were some other situations in ME2 as well where you were'nt able to say what you think. But I fail to see what this has to do with Liara. And this is still kinda irrelevant, because even Shepard knows, hes/she is basicly the only person who at the same time takes the threat seriously and is able to unite the galaxy. But that's just my opinion though, maybe I'm just not RPing it enough.
Let me put it this way.
Say someone in Shep's crew blew up a Cerberus base..turns out no one was inside but they recently moved a bunch of children/doctors and scientists out. They had reason to believe their was a risk the kids were still along with the party member close to Shep in the base but s/he blows it up anyway. So Shep cheerfully hugs her/him and when s/he goes "well Shep. It was a risk I had to take." Shep acts chastized and the conversation continues and the two of them are still bestest buddies.
That's my issue with it.
I have the same issue with Garrus, Tali and to an extent Wrex. But it's far more easy for me to ignore with them.
I'm not asking for a 'OMG FU LIARA DIE!" option but for one where my Shep is more "I see." and stays nice and distant from Liara without being all "Lulz Liara remember old times?"
Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 05 décembre 2011 - 11:59 .
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