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[Asch Lavigne]

The only way to see Liara on the Normandy in the opening of ME2 is to have her as an LI, correct?

[Ryzaki]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

What would have been the better option; to leave your body alone? If Liara didn't get Shepards body, the Collectors would have. Who knows what the Collectors would have done to Shepard; by bring your corpse to Cerberus Liara saved you in more ways than one. 

As far as my Shep's concerned? Yes that would've been the better option instead of taking the risk on Cerberus. It may have worked out (to an extent.) but if he had been in Liara's shoes he wouldn't have handed over the corpse.

And she may have saved *your Shepard* in more ways than one but Liara didn't save my life considering she's pixels. As for my shep she doesn't feel he saved her either just resigned him to several more years of struggle. This of course varies depending on Shep which I wish people would realize.

He doesn't feel close to her anymore. He doesn't really want to be around her anymore. (which is why I hoped for a "Hey Liara...how about you do SB things...over there. Where it's safe. Normandy's too dangerous". option).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2011 - 12:04 .

[Ryzaki]

Asch Lavigne wrote...

The only way to see Liara on the Normandy in the opening of ME2 is to have her as an LI, correct?

that or if you're using the comic/playing the PS3 version I believe.

[Abispa]

I believe that "lonely" Shepard also had Liara as a default in the ME2 opening.

[Ryzaki]

Abispa wrote...

I believe that "lonely" Shepard also had Liara as a default in the ME2 opening.

Nope.

I have only 2 romance imports in ME1 and for every other of my games the VS shows up (regardless of VS gender compared to Shep). Only reason Liara shows up in PS3 is because the player hasn't decided which VS has survived yet (since he/she can't pick a romance until then).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2011 - 12:07 .

[Eclipse_9990]

Ryzaki wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

What would have been the better option; to leave your body alone? If Liara didn't get Shepards body, the Collectors would have. Who knows what the Collectors would have done to Shepard; by bring your corpse to Cerberus Liara saved you in more ways than one. 

As far as my Shep's concerned? Yes that would've been the better option instead of taking the risk on Cerberus. It may have worked out (to an extent.) but if he had been in Liara's shoes he wouldn't have handed over the corpse.

And she may have saved *your Shepard* in more ways than one but Liara didn't save my life considering she's pixels. As for my shep she doesn't feel he saved her either just resigned him to several more years of struggle. This of course varies depending on Shep which I wish people would realize.

He doesn't feel close to her anymore. He doesn't really want to be around her anymore. (which is why I hoped for a "Hey Liara...how about you do SB things...over there. Where it's safe. Normandy's too dangerous". option).

What? This hardly makes any sense.. Taking a risk on Cerberus is worse than being at the mercy of the Collectors? If she left your body alone the Collectors would have found it, and done all manner of things to you. The collectors could have brought you back as a slave, or used your genes against the other races in the galaxy. I hate Cerberus as well, but how is this better than Cerberus getting your body? 

[Ryzaki]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...
What? This hardly makes any sense.. Taking a risk on Cerberus is worse than being at the mercy of the Collectors? If she left your body alone the Collectors would have found it, and done all manner of things to you. The collectors could have brought you back as a slave, or used your genes against the other races in the galaxy. I hate Cerberus as well, but how is this better than Cerberus getting your body? 

Liara's options were not "give Shep to Cerberus." or "Give Shep to collectors." 

Her options were closer to "give Shep to Cerberus" or "Don't give Shep to Cerberus and try to destroy the body." Hell even if Cerberus had went ahead and stolen Shep's body back I would've been fine with it. Bodies aren't nondestructable things. That can be destroyed. Probably far more easily in ME timeline.

So yes my Shep becoming ashes would be far preferable to Cerberus getting his body as far as he's concerned.

As for the slave comment...Cerberus could have done that just as well. It's only due to TIM for some reason not being a complete pragamtist that Shep doesn't have a control chip installed. I'm betting he wished he listened to Miranda when my Shep blew up that base.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2011 - 12:14 .

[Barquiel]

BlueMagitek wrote...

But do you know what, it wouldn't even had been so bad if you could call her out and break off the relationship in ME2.  You can destroy Tali's life, ruin Zaeed's chance at the one thing he's living for, ruin any chance of peace for Thane, replace Samara, etc.  but you're forced to accept Liara's argument. 

Well, it would be a bit hypocritical if Shepard (arriving with her cerberus frigate) blames Liara for her Cerberus connections

[Ryzaki]

Shep: "I don't like looters." *hacks wall safe.*

because clearly Shep's never a hypocrite. (and this isn't getting into a paragon Shep encouraging Garrus to be renegade or vice versa).

That said it would not be hypocrisy for Shep to show anger at Liara handing *his* body over to Cerberus. He did not consent to that. Yes he was dead I know. But someone being dead does not mean you can do whatever to their body. Otherwise having sex with corpses wouldn't be a crime.

If he got angry about her working with Cerberus in general then yeah he'd have no leg to stand on. But angry because she gave his body over? Yeah that's not hypocritical. Not unless he dumps Liara onto a labtable in a Cerberus facility.

And heck I have Sheps that are massively grateful to Liara. I just don't like feeling like they're the only ones who are validated in game.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2011 - 12:24 .

[BlueMagitek]

Barquiel wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

But do you know what, it wouldn't even had been so bad if you could call her out and break off the relationship in ME2.  You can destroy Tali's life, ruin Zaeed's chance at the one thing he's living for, ruin any chance of peace for Thane, replace Samara, etc.  but you're forced to accept Liara's argument. 

Well, it would be a bit hypocritical if Shepard (arriving with her cerberus frigate) blames Liara for her Cerberus connections

It's not about her connections, it's about her actions.  Your entire squad gives you grief about keeping the CB, a lot of people give you grief if you "Focus on Sovereign".  If you find her action unfavorable, you should be allowed to break off any connection with her if you wish.

[Barquiel]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

But do you know what, it wouldn't even had been so bad if you could call her out and break off the relationship in ME2.  You can destroy Tali's life, ruin Zaeed's chance at the one thing he's living for, ruin any chance of peace for Thane, replace Samara, etc.  but you're forced to accept Liara's argument. 

Well, it would be a bit hypocritical if Shepard (arriving with her cerberus frigate) blames Liara for her Cerberus connections

 If you find her action unfavorable, you should be allowed to break off any connection with her if you wish.

Well, you can do that in ME2 (ME3 is probably a different story).

But as I have said before, she can't ask Shepard -> she assumed Shepard prefers being alive as opposed to the alternative of being dead. Makes sense to me.

[Eclipse_9990]

Ryzaki wrote...

Shep: "I don't like looters." *hacks wall safe.*

because clearly Shep's never a hypocrite. (and this isn't getting into a paragon Shep encouraging Garrus to be renegade or vice versa).

That said it would not be hypocrisy for Shep to show anger at Liara handing *his* body over to Cerberus. He did not consent to that. Yes he was dead I know. But someone being dead does not mean you can do whatever to their body. Otherwise having sex with corpses wouldn't be a crime.

If he got angry about her working with Cerberus in general then yeah he'd have no leg to stand on. But angry because she gave his body over? Yeah that's not hypocritical. Not unless he dumps Liara onto a labtable in a Cerberus facility.

And heck I have Sheps that are massively grateful to Liara. I just don't like feeling like they're the only ones who are validated in game.

Heh.. One of the reasons I didn't say anything to those looters in Omega; paragon points be damned. 

You're right that it might not be hypocritical for Shep to show anger to Liara, but I feel it would be uncalled for, She only did what she thought was best. 

What is your reason for not wanting to be brought back? I don't think I read your reasons for this, and I'm curious. 

[Ryzaki]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Heh.. One of the reasons I didn't say anything to those looters in Omega; paragon points be damned. 

You're right that it might not be hypocritical for Shep to show anger to Liara, but I feel it would be uncalled for, She only did what she thought was best. 

What is your reason for not wanting to be brought back? I don't think I read your reasons for this, and I'm curious. 

I do it because it makes me lmao that no one bothers going "wait...what?" 

Meh Shep shows his anger at plenty of people who deserve it less (like emotionally scarred scientists for one).

It's not my reason it's my Shep's (and they vary in reasoning. Some are grateful to Liara for bringing them back to life, some never want to look at her again. Which is why I get so annoyed when someone tries to claim any side is stupid or OOC for Shep). One was finally at peace (my paragon colonist/sole survivor who went from paragon to renegade who is pretty much a tragedy magnet). He died and did all he could to save the galaxy. Being brought back to life by Cerberus (of all people) and having to deal with collectors? He's furious. (thus the renegade shift). He's at the point where he just wants everything to hurt. Cerberus made tweaks to his body to "improve" him that make him feel like he's in a shell that's not his. (his eyesight's too good, his healing is too fast, he's missing several scars and has several extra ones, his biotics are now ridculously OP, small stuff like that) (I'm pretty sure if he has the option to turn into a Reaper he'd take it just as a massive FU to everyone. But then he'd think about innocents being killed and he'll just decide to try to take the reapers out and get himself killed again in the process. Hopefully in small enough chunks that resurrection is impossible. ).

And another just wants to give Liara a big hug because they wanted to be able to stay alive and love their LI and have kids and have a good life after all the Reaper crap is over. I like having a variety of reactions to companions. I'm spoiled by Dragon Age. ME has far far too many forced friendships for my taste. I love how one of my Wardens can be practically sisters with Morrigan while another is openly hostile to her. It's variety. It's nice. It makes sense. Having my above Shep give Liara the same hug that my grateful to her Shep though? Just...no. It's jarring and it's horrible.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2011 - 12:43 .

[BlueMagitek]

Barquiel wrote...
Well, you can do that in ME2 (ME3 is probably a different story).

But as I have said before, she can't ask Shepard -> she assumed Shepard prefers being alive as opposed to the alternative of being dead. Makes sense to me.

Can you?  You can't recruit Samara or Thane without her (for some reason; I'd imagine that Samara at least would be the talk of the town, so to speak). 

She can make an assumption based on your Shepard.  Would an SS Shepard really want to be in debt to Cerberus?  Sure, if she's romancing Shepard you can claim she doesn't want to let go, but to pretend that the choice is the morally correct one is fantastic.

[Eclipse_9990]

Ryzaki wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Heh.. One of the reasons I didn't say anything to those looters in Omega; paragon points be damned. 

You're right that it might not be hypocritical for Shep to show anger to Liara, but I feel it would be uncalled for, She only did what she thought was best. 

What is your reason for not wanting to be brought back? I don't think I read your reasons for this, and I'm curious. 

I do it because it makes me lmao that no one bothers going "wait...what?" 

Meh Shep shows his anger at plenty of people who deserve it less (like emotionally scarred scientists for one).

It's not my reason it's my Shep's (and they vary in reasoning. Some are grateful to Liara for bringing them back to life, some never want to look at her again. Which is why I get so annoyed when someone tries to claim any side is stupid or OOC for Shep). One was finally at peace (my paragon colonist/sole survivor who went from paragon to renegade who is pretty much a tragedy magnet). He died and did all he could to save the galaxy. Being brought back to life by Cerberus (of all people) and having to deal with collectors? He's furious. (thus the renegade shift). He's at the point where he just wants everything to hurt. Cerberus made tweaks to his body to "improve" him that make him feel like he's in a shell that's not his. (his eyesight's too good, his healing is too fast, he's missing several scars and has several extra ones, his biotics are now ridculously OP, small stuff like that) (I'm pretty sure if he has the option to turn into a Reaper he'd take it just as a massive FU to everyone. But then he'd think about innocents being killed and he'll just decide to try to take the reapers out and get himself killed again in the process. Hopefully in small enough chunks that resurrection is impossible. ).

And another just wants to give Liara a big hug because they wanted to be able to stay alive and love their LI and have kids and have a good life after all the Reaper crap is over. I like having a variety of reactions to companions. I'm spoiled by Dragon Age. ME has far far too many forced friendships for my taste. I love how one of my Wardens can be practically sisters with Morrigan while another is openly hostile to her. It's variety. It's nice. It makes sense. Having my above Shep give Liara the same hug that my grateful to her Shep though? Just...no. It's jarring and it's horrible.

Oh so its mostly roleplay. I'm chill with that; for a while I thought this was some sort of moral issue. I can see why you would have some issues; you just want to add more depth to your character right? 

[Ryzaki]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Oh so its mostly roleplay. I'm chill with that; for a while I thought this was some sort of moral issue. I can see why you would have some issues; you just want to add more depth to your character right? 

Yes.

My Shep has a moral issue to her handing over his corpse.

I really don't care because it's a game. But I'd like it if my shep could express that issue instead of acting like a chastized child that had misbehaved when she gave her reasoning. Frankly it gives the character interaction far more flavor and is a lot more interesting than being friends by default.

[Eclipse_9990]

Ryzaki wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Oh so its mostly roleplay. I'm chill with that; for a while I thought this was some sort of moral issue. I can see why you would have some issues; you just want to add more depth to your character right? 

Yes.

My Shep has a moral issue to her handing over his corpse.

I really don't care because it's a game. But I'd like it if my shep could express that issue instead of acting like a chastized child that had misbehaved when she gave her reasoning. Frankly it gives the character interaction far more flavor and is a lot more interesting than being friends by default.

Fair enough; even though I respect, and agree with Liara's decision, I can I understand why you wouldn't. So I guess the only options now is to hope Bioware allows you to voice your displeasure in ME3, or just improvise your ingame roleplay. 

Or you can just argue with us until you're satisfied, that seems to be the most popular course of action. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 06 décembre 2011 - 01:02 .

[Ryzaki]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Fair enough; even though I respect, and agree with Liara's decision, I can I understand why you wouldn't. So I guess the only options now is to hope Bioware allows you to voice your displeasure in ME3, or just improvise your ingame roleplay. 

Or you can just argue with us until you're satisfied, that seems to be the most popular course of action. 

Nah I only started because being told a viable RP option is stupid tends to hit my rant button. And yes I do want BW to allow my Shep to not be bestest buddies with everyone on the ship. The devs said they did that but I'm not overly confident in their ability to do that.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2011 - 01:05 .

[Eclipse_9990]

Ryzaki wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Fair enough; even though I respect, and agree with Liara's decision, I can I understand why you wouldn't. So I guess the only options now is to hope Bioware allows you to voice your displeasure in ME3, or just improvise your ingame roleplay. 

Or you can just argue with us until you're satisfied, that seems to be the most popular course of action. 

Nah I only started because being told a viable RP option is stupid tends to hit my rant button. And yes I do want BW to allow my Shep to not be bestest buddies with everyone on the ship. The devs said they did that but I'm not overly confident in their ability to do that.

Well you can always roleplay that Shep came to terms with it. Even if Shep didn't like the idea, all the new stuff regarding the Reapers might have been enough to change his mind. 

[Wulfram]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Can you?  You can't recruit Samara or Thane without her (for some reason; I'd imagine that Samara at least would be the talk of the town, so to speak). 

You can complete the game without ever landing on Ilium

[Ryzaki]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Well you can always roleplay that Shep came to terms with it. Even if Shep didn't like the idea, all the new stuff regarding the Reapers might have been enough to change his mind. 

Even if he did come to terms with it it would not be that quickly (it'd take at least 2 years for him to come to terms with it and Me2 and Me3 don't have that much time between them) unless I made him ridculously OOC (which I'm not gonna do). The most he'd do is push it to the back of his mind and push himself so hard that he can focus on nothing else but the Reapers.

Wulfram wrote...


You can complete the game without ever landing on Ilium

Not if you don't have DLC you can't. Only way to avoid Illium is if you have Kasumi and/or Zaeed. Otherwise the 7 (is it 7 or 8? I forget.) character limit requires you recruit Tali and either Samara or Thane.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2011 - 01:18 .

[Eclipse_9990]

Ryzaki wrote...

Even if he did come to terms with it it would not be that quickly unless I made him ridculously OOC (which I'm not gonna do).

Would it really be that quickly? I always thought that the events from when Shepard woke up till the beginning of Mass Effect 3 would be atleast a few months; though I may be wrong. If I'm right a few months can be a believable time frame. 

[Ryzaki]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Would it really be that quickly? I always thought that the events from when Shepard woke up till the beginning of Mass Effect 3 would be atleast a few months; though I may be wrong. If I'm right a few months can be a believable time frame. 

It's about 6 - 9 months from the beginning of ME2 to ME3 I think based off the leak (at least a certain event is said to happen before a character meets Shep and that event was 6 or 9 (I forgot which) months from the time that character is talking to Shep again). To me him coming to terms with coming back from the dead (and in this time he is not in a peaceful enviornment but in a  jail cell trying to figure out how to defeat mecha cthulu and before that on the run trying to stop said mecha cthulu from hitting their I win button.) that quickly doesn't fit him. Might fit someone else's Shep but not mine

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2011 - 01:25 .

[Eclipse_9990]

Ryzaki wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Would it really be that quickly? I always thought that the events from when Shepard woke up till the beginning of Mass Effect 3 would be atleast a few months; though I may be wrong. If I'm right a few months can be a believable time frame. 

It's about 6 - 9 months from the beginning of ME2 to ME3 I think based off the leak (at least a certain event is said to happen before a character meets Shep and that event was 6 or 9 (I forgot which) months from the time that character is talking to Shep again). To me him coming to terms with coming back from the dead (and in this time he is not in a peaceful enviornment but in a  jail cell trying to figure out how to defeat mecha cthulu.) that quickly doesn't fit him. Might fit someone else's Shep but not mine. 

Well then I don't know what to say; expect I hope you find an agreeable option for your Shepard.