56469 réponses à ce sujet

[RampantAndroid]

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah the avoiding him bit unfortunately isn't possible since BW feels the need to force her (and a railroaded friendship) down my Shep's throat.

Maybe ME3 will change this but I doubt it. That tweet was nice and all but certain things contradict it. It only seems to apply for certain characters which is BS. It should apply for everyone or no one at all. So my resentment at least isn't simply because she's there. If she was easily ignored (like say Jack or Shep had a variety of ways to treat her in every game she appeared in) I'd have no qualms. If she must be a forced friendship I want the option to kill her to kill said forced friendship (like I can with Garrus, Tali and Wrex). Ideally though there would be no forced friendship so such measures aren't necessary.

As for the sick thing...some will say the same about giggle squeeing over a virtual character and their Shep's romance with her. Kind of amuses me when anyone on a VG forum decides to call someone weird and sick. [in regards to anything that's not RL anyway. Not like the pixels can actually be hurt/love anyone back]

That said I don't see the point in complaining in the Liara thread. There's more relevant threads for complaining about Liara's sole can't die status.

/facepalm.

Look, I'm sure bioware is SOOOO HAPPPY that you paid them money for LOTSB but that's YOUR problem. It was CLEAR it was a Liara focused mission.

Moreover, you act as if Bioware is engineering this game SOLELY so people can die. I think people dying is an artifact of them trying to score the idea of "it's a suicide mission" into your head. And it works. For Liara to die, they either needed to add a renegade option to kill her at the end of LOTSB (yeah, that'd totally fit...) or have her in ME2. That you can kill people in ME2 by not using them right in the final mission, or by not upgrading the right components...is not by design. It's done so that the first time you play and go in unprepared you're forced to deal with the fact that someone died as a result. I don't think that they made characters "killable" so that you could si there and engineeer people's deaths. That's you figuring out the system and using it to your advantage.

Honestly, why don't you people get it? Or better, why don't you go cry that you couldn't kill the virmire survivor in ME2. I mean, you can't kill BOTH Ashley and Kaiden. Wahhhh.

Modifié par RampantAndroid, 27 décembre 2011 - 02:02 .

[Yuqi]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

It's because that, after a while, comisserating with fellow posters who want Liara to die simply because of the fact that she can't die in the previous games looses it's own satisfaction. So, they have to seek out people who disagree with their opinions in order to justify their own singlular point of view.

Sigh, you would think players of MA+ games would be  more mature then this. I'm staying away from the DA2 forums for similar reasons.

Seriously guys, if you don't like/hate Liara for whatever reason, can you take it  somewhere else.

=======

Modifié par Yuqi, 27 décembre 2011 - 02:12 .

[jlb524]

TMA LIVE wrote...
The way I saw it, you'd have to be someone like Cerberus if you wanted to find the Shadow Broker. Because killing a bunch of agents and getting their data isn't going to do it, unless you get lucky. If someone else in the galaxy is after the Shadow Broker, they've already done what Liara's doing right now, and more. Because unlike Liara, who's mostly acting on Illium, Cerberus is gathering info all over the galaxy. Yet those people still didn't get the Shadow Broker. It took Cerberus giving her info they gathered in order for her to finally find him.

So to me, killing the observer for data was pointless. If she did find a real lead that way, it would be out of luck

Assumptions...I trust Liara because she would know more about the situation than myself (or Shepard).  This comes back to your lack of trust in Liara.

TMA LIVE wrote... 
Then add in the fact that I don't like taking lives, unless I have to.

Like what, only the people who are shooting at you?

[TMA LIVE]

How does Liara find the Shadow Broker if you don't play ME3? I heard it'd said in the leak.

Me personal, not role-playing, I'm a cop in space. I don't hunt down
people and kill them, solely for data. Other factors have to be
involved.

jlb524 wrote...
This comes back to your lack of trust in Liara.

I didn't trust her then when it came to doing things for the right reasons. I still wouldn't say I trust her motivation either. Same with Garrus. They're acting out of anger for revenge.

I guess I trust her now because she's not acting out of that anymore. No more "They have to pay".

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 27 décembre 2011 - 02:45 .

[Nightwriter]

TMA LIVE wrote...

The way I saw it, you'd have to be someone like Cerberus if you wanted to find the Shadow Broker. Because killing a bunch of agents and getting their data isn't going to do it, unless you get lucky. If someone else in the galaxy is after the Shadow Broker, they've already done what Liara's doing right now, and more. Because unlike Liara, who's mostly acting on Illium, Cerberus is gathering info all over the galaxy. Yet those people still didn't get the Shadow Broker. It took Cerberus giving her info they gathered in order for her to finally find him.

So to me, killing the observer for data was pointless. If she did find a real lead that way, it would be out of luck

Then add in the fact that I don't like taking lives, unless I have to.

If the PC is enlisted to achieve a goal, it is usually as good as done, regardless of the odds.

[TMA LIVE]

Nightwriter wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

The way I saw it, you'd have to be someone like Cerberus if you wanted to find the Shadow Broker. Because killing a bunch of agents and getting their data isn't going to do it, unless you get lucky. If someone else in the galaxy is after the Shadow Broker, they've already done what Liara's doing right now, and more. Because unlike Liara, who's mostly acting on Illium, Cerberus is gathering info all over the galaxy. Yet those people still didn't get the Shadow Broker. It took Cerberus giving her info they gathered in order for her to finally find him.

So to me, killing the observer for data was pointless. If she did find a real lead that way, it would be out of luck

Then add in the fact that I don't like taking lives, unless I have to.

If the PC is enlisted to achieve a goal, it is usually as good as done, regardless of the odds.

I don't understand what you mean?

[Ryzaki]

RampantAndroid wrote..
/facepalm.

Look, I'm sure bioware is SOOOO HAPPPY that you paid them money for LOTSB but that's YOUR problem. It was CLEAR it was a Liara focused mission.

Moreover, you act as if Bioware is engineering this game SOLELY so people can die. I think people dying is an artifact of them trying to score the idea of "it's a suicide mission" into your head. And it works. For Liara to die, they either needed to add a renegade option to kill her at the end of LOTSB (yeah, that'd totally fit...) or have her in ME2. That you can kill people in ME2 by not using them right in the final mission, or by not upgrading the right components...is not by design. It's done so that the first time you play and go in unprepared you're forced to deal with the fact that someone died as a result. I don't think that they made characters "killable" so that you could si there and engineeer people's deaths. That's you figuring out the system and using it to your advantage.

Honestly, why don't you people get it? Or better, why don't you go cry that you couldn't kill the virmire survivor in ME2. I mean, you can't kill BOTH Ashley and Kaiden. Wahhhh.

Right because LOTSB was when my Shep gave her a hug I had no control over. Seriously? You're just as ridculous as those you mock. 

Not to mention Liara focused =/= friendship Liara focused hun. It's quite possible for SHOCK AND HORROR! Shep to want to help out Liara with the SB without the two of them being BFFS FOREVER! Plus every single LM is character focused. Doesn't make Shep forced to be BFFs with any of them during it.

FYI I wasn't talking about her being killable in ME2. But keep rolling with the assumptions. It's amusing.  

Yup you keep on with your dramatics and BSing. You're really winning an arguement there.

As for Ash/Kaidan? I'd be pleased with a GTFOMS option. (same with Liara really). That said the VS doesn't look to get a forced friendship (since devs are tweeting that they gave them the CS among other things). So frankly I don't care. Once I have confirmation that Liara's BFF status is optional? I won't give a damn if she dies or not.

And yes I gamed the system to avoid an undersirable outcome. Happens with plenty of things. Hopefully since ME3 is about a galaxy wide war I expect everyone on the squad/battlefield to have a reasonable chance of dying. No one should be exempt from this (not even my fav Garrus. Yes Garrus is my fav. I only killed him in games where my Sheps weren't BFFs with him because I didn't want my Sheps acting OOC.)

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 décembre 2011 - 03:04 .

[jlb524]

TMA LIVE wrote...
How does Liara find the Shadow Broker if Shepard doesn't help? Because I hear it's in the leaked files.

It is.

*spoiler* She finds the SB on her own and defeats him. *spoiler*

TMA LIVE wrote... 
Me personal, not role-playing, I'm a cop in space. I don't hunt down people and kill them, solely for data. Other factors have to be involved.

There were plenty of other factors.  It's not as if the SB and its agents are innocent and not a danger to Liara or Shepard.

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
How does Liara find the Shadow Broker if Shepard doesn't help? Because I hear it's in the leaked files.

It is.

TMA LIVE wrote... 
Me personal, not role-playing, I'm a cop in space. I don't hunt down people and kill them, solely for data. Other factors have to be involved.

There were plenty of other factors.  It's not as if the SB and its agents are innocent and not a danger to Liara or Shepard.

But I ain't killing people unless I know or believe it's for a good reason, or no choice.

All I was given then is Shadow Broker took my friend. He might be dead. The Shadow Broker must pay. Hack terminals and help kill someone for data. He tried to sell your body.

And the ME3 bit:

Hang on, how do I hide text?

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 27 décembre 2011 - 02:53 .

[1136342t54_]

TMA LIVE wrote...

I didn't trust her then when it came to doing things for the right reasons. I still wouldn't say I trust her motivation either. Same with Garrus. They're acting out of anger for revenge.

I guess I trust her now because she's not acting out of that anymore. No more "They have to pay".

Sorry I just came into a Liara thread to respond to this instead of professing my undying love to Liara (yet) but this is something I had to reply to.

The thing is with claiming that they act on purely anger and revenge is that Liara and Garrus's enemies have done horrible acts that have gotten many people killed. Taking out Sidonis would from Garrus view point be correct and right. Either kill him or take him to some authorities (which should have been an option) with Liara she hasn't necessarily made many wrong decisions based on emotion. What she would do is very vital to the ME universe and essentially saved it.

Liara's actions maybe extreme (sometimes) but it works. She seems to have done no worse than many in the military have. Garrus and Liara's emotional responses have never really ended in a wrong decision. Hell Sidonis may have wanted to redeem himself but what he did could easily be seen as an act of murder and sacrificed futurel  lives that could have been saved by Garrus team. At the very least he should be in jail for a very very long time but due to this skills he may save some lives.

[1136342t54_]

TMA LIVE wrote...
But I ain't killing people unless I know or believe it's for a good reason, or no choice.

All I was given then is Shadow Broker took my friend. He might be dead. The Shadow Broker must pay. Hack terminals and help kill someone for data.

And the ME3 bit:

Hang on, how do I hide text?

The SB maybe a neutral entity but is not an agent of good at all. SB even hire assassins to kill those that interferes with his business. Taking down the SB for Liara (who could use his info for your purposes) wouldn't necessarily be wrong unless you support the SB. Which technically is a possibility because a information broker with that much power is useful in keeping the balance.

[TMA LIVE]

Again, what I never liked was how she seemed like a renegade character. She'd do whatever it took to get the job done. And not because the Shadow Broker was a threat to society. Not because we'd need to steal his resources. But because she wants to kill him for Feron and Shepard. All that for revenge.

[1136342t54_]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Again, what I never liked was how she seemed like a renegade character. She'd do whatever it took to get the job done. And not because the Shadow Broker was a threat to society. Not because we'd need to steal his resources. But because she wants to kill him for Feron and Shepard. All that for revenge.

Or she wants to kill the SB because he was willing to work with the Collectors who wanted Shepard's body for the Reapers and ruin the Galaxy's last hope for survival. It isn't just about revenge.

[Ryzaki]

@TMA {color=rgb(50, 50, 50)} insert text here {/color}

Replace {} with []

I think.

[TMA LIVE]

1136342t54 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
But I ain't killing people unless I know or believe it's for a good reason, or no choice.

All I was given then is Shadow Broker took my friend. He might be dead. The Shadow Broker must pay. Hack terminals and help kill someone for data.

And the ME3 bit:

Hang on, how do I hide text?

The SB maybe a neutral entity but is not an agent of good at all. SB even hire assassins to kill those that interferes with his business. Taking down the SB for Liara (who could use his info for your purposes) wouldn't necessarily be wrong unless you support the SB. Which technically is a possibility because a information broker with that much power is useful in keeping the balance.

The Council I'm sure kills for business. Even Hackett hires you because he wants to kill someone (though he never said it to you. But he was hoping for that result). Even Liara I'm sure as the Shadow Broker, is going to kill for business.

I need other reasons then "Well, he wasn't really that good" as a motivation to kill him.

[TMA LIVE]

Thx Ryzaki.

Jlb:

I'm told she hires merc to do it. But is it said how she got her info? Was it from Cerberus?

[1136342t54_]

TMA LIVE wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
But I ain't killing people unless I know or believe it's for a good reason, or no choice.

All I was given then is Shadow Broker took my friend. He might be dead. The Shadow Broker must pay. Hack terminals and help kill someone for data.

And the ME3 bit:

Hang on, how do I hide text?

The SB maybe a neutral entity but is not an agent of good at all. SB even hire assassins to kill those that interferes with his business. Taking down the SB for Liara (who could use his info for your purposes) wouldn't necessarily be wrong unless you support the SB. Which technically is a possibility because a information broker with that much power is useful in keeping the balance.

The Council I'm sure kills for business. Even Hackett hires you because he wants to kill someone (though he never said it to you. But he was hoping for that result). Even Liara I'm sure as the Shadow Broker, is going to kill for business.

I need other reasons then "Well, he wasn't really that good" as a motivation to kill him.

So killing warlords, enemy military targets, Terrorists Shadow Broker agents (who work for someone that supports the Collectors) and many other rather bad people is killing for business? Okay then sure we can go with that. In a sense you don't want some Batarians to wreck a large colony that could bring in wealth now would we? Then again that would mean Shepard during the entire series has been killing for business. Shep is in the business of saving the galaxy right? 

[1136342t54_]

MistyStar wrote...

i love the way hillis does liara's voice.

I love the way she does the voices of a few characters.

[TMA LIVE]

Am I killing a batarian that's attacking colonies, or am I killing an information broker selling dirty secrets? Big difference. The Shadow Broker selling slaves to the Collectors didn't even get mentioned happen till LOSTB.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 27 décembre 2011 - 03:30 .

[TMA LIVE]

jreezy wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

The Council I'm sure kills for business. Even Hackett hires you because he wants to kill someone (though he never said it to you. But he was hoping for that result). Even Liara I'm sure as the Shadow Broker, is going to kill for business.

I need other reasons then "Well, he wasn't really that good" as a motivation to kill him.

He's a threat to a friend's well-being, that's reason enough to kill him.

And not capture him?

[TMA LIVE]

jreezy wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

jreezy wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

The Council I'm sure kills for business. Even Hackett hires you because he wants to kill someone (though he never said it to you. But he was hoping for that result). Even Liara I'm sure as the Shadow Broker, is going to kill for business.

I need other reasons then "Well, he wasn't really that good" as a motivation to kill him.

He's a threat to a friend's well-being, that's reason enough to kill him.

And not capture him?

Could you? He might be too dangerous for that.

Same for keeping prisoners in the battle field, yet soldiers still spared soldiers when given an option. Unless they weren't the type to do that.

[1136342t54_]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Am I killing a batarian that's attacking colonies, or am I attacking an information broker selling dirty secrets? Big difference. The Shadow Broker selling slaves to the Collectors didn't even get mentioned happen till LOSTB.

You just said.


The Council I'm sure kills for business. Even Hackett hires you because he wants to kill someone (though he never said it to you. But he was hoping for that result). Even Liara I'm sure as the Shadow Broker, is going to kill for business.

I need other reasons then "Well, he wasn't really that good" as a motivation to kill him.


If you are willing to work for groups willing to send you on missions that in your opinion will basically involve killing for business. Liara at the very least want to take down the Shadow Broker for killing Feron, Stealing Shepard's body and working for the Collectors a faction that has proven time and time again a enemy to the rest of the galaxy.