56469 réponses à ce sujet

[TMA LIVE]

1) No we don't. We only know Wilson was working for him. We don't even know if Wilson was hired by the Shadow Broker to do what he did at the beginning of ME2. The only time the Shadow Broker gives a references to still wanting to sell me, is when I took over his base, and aimed a gun at his head, moments after learning his true identity. You think he wants you alive at that point?

2) He was selling a dead body. Not a living hero.

3) The Shadow Broker wanted info on Cerberus. Not the Alliance. How is that going to get people killed?

4) About the "he tried to sell 2 years ago" equals threat thing again? You just lied to me. Liara never said the Shadow Broker was a threat.

5) Don't care that he tried to sell me when I was a meat bag.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 27 décembre 2011 - 04:44 .

[TMA LIVE]

Nightwriter wrote...

I have the advantage of being very revenge friendly.

I'm not.

[Nightwriter]

I was more preoccupied with my inability to understand why she wanted "revenge." Her hatred of the Shadow Broker seemed out of proportion to me, even when explained.

[TMA LIVE]

Nightwriter wrote...

I was more preoccupied with my inability to understand why she wanted "revenge." Her hatred of the Shadow Broker seemed out of proportion to me, even when explained.

So you're saying 'Don't think" when it comes to Liara's mission against the Shadow Broker?

Come on.

[Nightwriter]

I didn't understand a word of that. You'll have to run it by me again.

[TMA LIVE]

Nightwriter wrote...

I didn't understand a word of that. You'll have to run it by me again.

You're saying you can't understand Liara's revenge.

[Nightwriter]

Yes.

[jlb524]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I didn't understand a word of that. You'll have to run it by me again.

You're saying you can't understand Liara's revenge.

Vanilla ME2 didn't do the greatest job at explaining it.

[TMA LIVE]

I think I can understand it. She spend years of crap happening to her, and needing to be cold about it. It got to her. It went from saving Feron to just avenging him, in a galaxy soon going to hell. And she had to do it all alone.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 27 décembre 2011 - 05:08 .

[1136342t54_]

TMA LIVE wrote...
1) No we don't. We only know Wilson was working for him. We don't even know if Wilson was hired by the Shadow Broker to do what he did at the beginning of ME2. The only time the Shadow Broker gives a references to still wanting to sell me, is when I took over his base, and aimed a gun at his head, moments after learning his true identity. You think he wants you alive at that point?

Its easier if you just quote things since I'm assuming you are saying no we don't know Shepard is alive in ME2?

Also we know Wilson is working for the SB but at the same time we don't know if he was hired by the SB? SB wants Shepard's body to sell to the Collectors. By your reasoning the Collectors would want Shep alive or dead so they can get closer to the Collectors.

The SB could have easily rectified the situation by not keeping Feron. If this was really a misunderstanding the SB realized that both parties are after the same group then he could have easily sent Feron back and stop attempting to have Shep's teammate killed.

2) He was selling a dead body. Not a living hero.

Again SB is still willing to kill a live Shepard to give to the SB.

3) The Shadow Broker wanted info on Cerberus. Not the Alliance. How is that going to get people killed?

Cerberus had a large amount of info on the Alliance and their own organization. There was a reason why you had to consider giving it to the Alliance since it is their property and giving it to a another group could easily be used for nefarious purposes.

4) About the "he tried to sell 2 years ago" equals threat thing again? You just lied to me. Liara never said the Shadow Broker was a threat.

Basically if you know a group is willing to sell your body to your enemy why wouldn't they try it again? Like I said they are a possible threat and LOTSB just confirms it. They may not have directly gone after you likely due to Cerberus working against them but taking you down is still a possibility.

Also this was never just about Liara getting revenge. In her shoes I could easily see the SB as a threat if he is willing to work with the Collectors. The SB was always a possible threat its just that ME2 and LOTSB shows that you can be on their crosshairs. Is it that difficult to understand that maybe just maybe Liara could have wanted revenge and saw him as a possible threat?

5) Don't care that he tried to sell me when I was a meat bag.

After the Lazarus Project. You aren't a corpse at that point.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 27 décembre 2011 - 05:16 .

[Nightwriter]

TMA LIVE wrote...

I think I can understand it. She spend years of crap happening to her, and needing to be cold about it. It got to her. It went from saving Feron to just avenging him, in a galaxy soon going to hell. And she had to do it all alone.

I could see this leading to general distress or anger, but I didn't understand her level of hate for the Shadow Broker himself. I was perhaps more confused by the fact that Liara had not previously been a character who reacted to emotional turmoil with anger.

[1136342t54_]

Eh screw it the whole point was about whether Liara is doing this out of just revenge or possible both revenge and the likelihood of the SB being a threat. This is going in circles with us repeating the same points over again (which wasn't what I intended) that amounts to nothing.

[The_Other_M]

Nightwriter wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

I think I can understand it. She spend years of crap happening to her, and needing to be cold about it. It got to her. It went from saving Feron to just avenging him, in a galaxy soon going to hell. And she had to do it all alone.

I could see this leading to general distress or anger, but I didn't understand her level of hate for the Shadow Broker himself. I was perhaps more confused by the fact that Liara had not previously been a character who reacted to emotional turmoil with anger.

Soooo you're saying that if someone you love/or friend disappeared because some all-knowing mob boss decided to double-cross you.....you wouldn't want to get back at them?

[TMA LIVE]

1136342t54 wrote...

Its easier if you just quote things since I'm assuming you are saying no we don't know Shepard is alive in ME2?

You wrote this. "You do know that Shepard was alive most of ME2 right? He wanted Shepard's body even then LOTSB just made it more convenient for him. smilie"

We don't know he was after Shepard's body still after Redemption. Only that the Collector's deal is still being offered.

1136342t54 wrote...
Also we know Wilson is working for the SB but at the same time we don't know if he was hired by the SB? SB wants Shepard's body to sell to the Collectors. By your reasoning the Collectors would want Shep alive or dead so they can get closer to the Collectors.

The SB could have easily rectified the situation by not keeping Feron. If this was really a misunderstanding the SB realized that both parties are after the same group then he could have easily sent Feron back and stop attempting to have Shep's teammate killed.

For all we know, Wilson was just leaking info to the SB. There is nothing in the SB files that say Wilson was going to sell Shepard over to the SB.

And you mean the Shadow Broker would want to sell Shepard to get closer to the Collectors?

And why give a traitor freedom? He could have did what the SB told him to do, but he didn't. And instead, he stole info from him and gave it to Cerberus, and stole Shepard's corpse. I'm surprised he didn't kill him.

1136342t54 wrote...
Cerberus had a large amount of info on the Alliance and their own organization. There was a reason why you had to consider giving it to the Alliance since it is their property and giving it to a another group could easily be used for nefarious purposes.

That's you guessing. We stole it from a Cerberus base. The only thing that's given is that they're encrypted. Nothing says they have anything to do with the Alliance. You're simply working for the Alliance, and shouldn't be passing what you've found to someone else because they're now classified.

1136342t54 wrote...
Basically if you know a group is willing to sell your body to your enemy why wouldn't they try it again? Like I said they are a possible threat and LOTSB just confirms it. They may not have directly gone after you likely due to Cerberus working against them but taking you down is still a possibility.

Yet, the SB didn't. I'm not offing someone based off guess work, and suspecting he might try again.

1136342t54 wrote...

After the Lazarus Project. You aren't a corpse at that point.

Yeah, and he did not go after Shepard after the Lazarus Project that we know of.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 27 décembre 2011 - 05:39 .

[TMA LIVE]

The_Other_M wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

I think I can understand it. She spend years of crap happening to her, and needing to be cold about it. It got to her. It went from saving Feron to just avenging him, in a galaxy soon going to hell. And she had to do it all alone.

I could see this leading to general distress or anger, but I didn't understand her level of hate for the Shadow Broker himself. I was perhaps more confused by the fact that Liara had not previously been a character who reacted to emotional turmoil with anger.

Soooo you're saying that if someone you love/or friend disappeared because some all-knowing mob boss decided to double-cross you.....you wouldn't want to get back at them?

But before LOSTB, as Liara says, all she thought about was getting revenge. It being a rescue mission she had almost no hope for till she saw his picture.

And do you still consider all those people that died on Illium in the bombing worth saving Feron's life?

To Liara, it is in order to save him. If she said she'd sacrifice what's his name again if given the choice, I'm sure it means the same to all of them.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 27 décembre 2011 - 05:45 .

[TMA LIVE]

1136342t54 wrote...

Eh screw it the whole point was about whether Liara is doing this out of just revenge or possible both revenge and the likelihood of the SB being a threat. This is going in circles with us repeating the same points over again (which wasn't what I intended) that amounts to nothing.

From what Liara says, it's out of revenge mostly, till she saw Feron's picture. Because I imagine she considered him dead by the beginning of the second year.

The SB is more of a threat to her, for what she did in Redemption, and how she's both gunning for him, and messing with his business by killing his agents.

[1136342t54_]

TMA LIVE wrote...
You wrote this. "You do know that Shepard was alive most of ME2 right? He wanted Shepard's body even then LOTSB just made it more convenient for him. smilie"

We don't know he was after Shepard's body still after Redemption. Only that the Collector's deal is still being offered.

Not even sure the way you worded it is even correct since SB seems to actually heavily hint at it and takes it under consideration. Hell if the SB even figured out that the Collectors are working for the Reapers then why continue with this conflict with Liara?

1136342t54 wrote...

For all we know, Wilson was just leaking info to the SB. There is nothing in the SB files that say Wilson was going to sell Shepard over to the SB.

And you mean the Shadow Broker would want to sell Shepard to get closer to the Collectors?

And why give a traitor freedom? He could have did what the SB told him to do, but he didn't. And instead, he stole info from him and gave it to Cerberus, and stole Shepard's corpse. I'm surprised he didn't kill him.

You recently said that Wilson is working for the SB. He wouldn't have to sell Shepard SB could just easily order him to steal Shep. It isn't out of the realm of possibility and quite realistic also since he would still want to sell shepard's body. What other reason for him to screw up the Lazarus projec for the lolz?

1136342t54 wrote...
That's you guessing. We stole it from a Cerberus base. The only thing that's given is that they're encrypted. Nothing says they have anything to do with the Alliance. You're simply working for the Alliance, and shouldn't be passing what you've found to someone else because they're now classified.

Actually Shep is a Spectre who can disobey Alliance orders (although he couldn't do it to blatantly) I would have to go play the game again to make sure though since this is generally guess work on both parts.

Yet, the SB didn't. I'm not offing someone based off guess work, and suspecting he might try again.

I already gave a possible reason why SB likely couldn't attempt it.

Yeah, and he did not go after Shepard after the Lazarus Project that we know of.

Again it is likely he went after Shepard by the end of the Lazarus project but failed. 

You are still missing the main point of this. The main argument is was Liara doing this mostly due to Revenge. My point is that its both revenge and a likelihood of the SB possibly being a threat. 

[1136342t54_]

TMA LIVE wrote...
From what Liara says, it's out of revenge mostly, till she saw Feron's picture. Because I imagine she considered him dead by the beginning of the second year.

The SB is more of a threat to her, for what she did in Redemption, and how she's both gunning for him, and messing with his business by killing his agents.

So first its just out of revenge now it could be both the SB being a threat and revenge? Then what is the point of you arguing it? Its basically what I've been saying but for some reason the argument was brought into other areas.

Liara was obviously angry about Feron being supposedly killed and Shepard's body being taken. Also Liara was struggling with wondering if she did the right thing by giving Shepards body to Cerberus. 

Liara wants revenge but sees the SB as a threat. Knowing how much she wanted to protect Shepard and not letting him go its possible that she would have also believed Shep could still be in danger so the SB would be a even greater threat in her eyes.

[TMA LIVE]

When I say threat, I'm asking if the SB was a threat to the galaxy, or to Shepard.

When really, the SB is mostly a threat to Liara, because she's making herself a threat to him, by attacking him.

Her main motive is revenge for a friend. Not trying to make the galaxy a better place. Nor simply defending herself.

[1136342t54_]

TMA LIVE wrote...

When I say threat, I'm asking if the SB was a threat to the galaxy, or to Shepard.

When really, the SB is mostly a threat to Liara, because she's making herself a threat to him, by attacking him.

Her main motive is revenge for a friend. Not trying to make the galaxy a better place. Nor simply defending herself.

Screw it I'm not going to repeat myself again (Since its late, getting repetative and is lacking in Liara pics) you know my point already.

[Dariustwinblade]

LOTSB is Liara's revenge/rescue mission and like loyalty mission.

If you don't like Liara DON'T DO Lotsb.

If you don't want to kill the broker DON'T DO lotsb.

LOTSB is a mission to help a friend rescue a friend and help them get revenge.

Shepard dosen't HAVE TO DO LOTSB.


Liara can do fine WITHOUT you butting in.

She takes out the broker without your help. WITH MUCH LESS CASUALTY.

Vasir dosen't die. The trade center is not bombed those two results were caused due to Shepard giving Vasir, Liara's location


Without you or Cerberus, Liara.


Spoiler



1. Finds out about the brokers location.

2. Storms the base leading a dosen mercs

3. Kills the broker takes over his network.



Clean simple and efficient.


Liara beats the broker without your help.

And no her becoming the SB is very important to the plot. And is not tossed aside.

[kumquats]

Nightwriter wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

I think I can understand it. She spend years of crap happening to her, and needing to be cold about it. It got to her. It went from saving Feron to just avenging him, in a galaxy soon going to hell. And she had to do it all alone.

I could see this leading to general distress or anger, but I didn't understand her level of hate for the Shadow Broker himself. I was perhaps more confused by the fact that Liara had not previously been a character who reacted to emotional turmoil with anger.

I make it simple: People with an high IQ often lack EQ. That's Liara in my opinion.
A "normal" person could maybe cope with everything that has happened, Liara can't.

[Yuqi]

kumquats wrote...

I make it simple: People with an high IQ often lack EQ. That's Liara in my opinion.
A "normal" person could maybe cope with everything that has happened, Liara can't.

^This

I like those xmas pics they are simply adorable.

[Kachie]

Yuqi wrote...

kumquats wrote...

I make it simple: People with an high IQ often lack EQ. That's Liara in my opinion.
A "normal" person could maybe cope with everything that has happened, Liara can't.

^This

I like those xmas pics they are simply adorable.

what does EQ mean? o.o

[Dariustwinblade]

Emotional Qualities/Quantities.