56459 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexMBrennan]

Wasn't Liara's motivation in Redemption at first just to find Shepard's body so it could be given a proper burial, and thereby letting her get some closure

Yes.
Still, risking one's life to recover a body doesn't sound much healthier (yeah, I know lots of soldiers will do that but still - Shepard's dead, they're not going to care)

[Stardusk78]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Wasn't Liara's motivation in Redemption at first just to find Shepard's body so it could be given a proper burial, and thereby letting her get some closure

Yes.
Still, risking one's life to recover a body doesn't sound much healthier (yeah, I know lots of soldiers will do that but still - Shepard's dead, they're not going to care)

This is just your real life cynicism.

[Yuqi]

Oh look another one of THOSE people, bloody hell.

Modifié par Yuqi, 02 février 2012 - 03:26 .

[AlexMBrennan]

You are scaring me. You do have loved ones right?
Glad I am not your brother, cause if I was to die and no one could locate my body, you'd just say, eh what the hell, he's in heaven I guess... WTF!! smilie

I have said that I understand her decision. I might do the same if I was in her position; however, that would make the decision healthy.

[DigitalMaster37]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

You are scaring me. You do have loved ones right?
Glad I am not your brother, cause if I was to die and no one could locate my body, you'd just say, eh what the hell, he's in heaven I guess... WTF!! smilie

I have said that I understand her decision. I might do the same if I was in her position; however, that would make the decision healthy.

Out of sheer curiousity, what makes a decision like that healthy or unhealthy? I am just curious as to what you'll say.

Some psychologist would totally argue you under a table to the fact that closure is more important than moving on. Closure = finding the body of deceased = or confirming death in the first place. 

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Wasn't Liara's motivation in Redemption at first just to find Shepard's body so it could be given a proper burial, and thereby letting her get some closure

Yes.
Still, risking one's life to recover a body doesn't sound much healthier (yeah, I know lots of soldiers will do that but still - Shepard's dead, they're not going to care)

Liara is no stranger to trouble at this point and how much resistance would she expect meet in the start?

[Stardusk78]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

You are scaring me. You do have loved ones right?
Glad I am not your brother, cause if I was to die and no one could locate my body, you'd just say, eh what the hell, he's in heaven I guess... WTF!! smilie

I have said that I understand her decision. I might do the same if I was in her position; however, that would make the decision healthy.

Out of sheer curiousity, what makes a decision like that healthy or unhealthy? I am just curious as to what you'll say.

Some psychologist would totally argue you under a table to the fact that closure is more important than moving on. Closure = finding the body of deceased = or confirming death in the first place. 

He is all basing it on real-life cynicism and values where no one gives a damn about anything or anyone and in that sense the VS is someone more people can relate to but the good thing about ME is that it is fantasy.

[Yuqi]

He is just jealous; because Liara gets all the girls, as well as the guys. 

Modifié par Yuqi, 02 février 2012 - 04:24 .

[Stardusk78]

Yuqi wrote...

He is jus't jealous because Liara gets all the girls as well as the guys

lol

[DigitalMaster37]

Yuqi wrote...

He is just jealous; because Liara gets all the girls, as well as the guys. 

Lol! 

[Han Shot First]

Fans of the series sometimes have a bad habit of exaggerating character traits. So Liara is obsessive while Ashley is a racist, bible-thumping zealot. None of those things of course, is really true. Liara for example handles it very well if Shepard breaks it off with her, even if Shep is breaking it off with her for one of the ME2 LIs. So she's hardly someone who is a stalker.

Searching for Shepard's body is hardly obsessive either. Lets use a real world parallel. If a soldier was killed in a war, but his body was never found, would you call his friends and family obsessive if they were dedicated in trying to find and recover his remains, so that he can have a proper burial at homel? Would you call this obsessive?

(O/T: If you don't find that vid moving, you are heartless.  )

Liara originally was just trying to recover Shepard's body. It wasn't about bringing him back from the dead.

Exactly. All the VS apologists can say what they want but the fact is, the VS gave up on Shepard, didn't do a follow-up.

This criticism of the VS is unfair as well. The VS is an active duty member of the Alliance military, and as such, didn't have freedom of moment. Once the Normandy was destroyed they would have been issued new orders to another ship or posting. The VS couldn't have searched for Shepard's body even if they wanted to.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 02 février 2012 - 07:01 .

[PMC65]

Stardusk78 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Liara really is the only character that truly loves Shepard. That is why I love her.

Some may call it "obsessive" but I think it's more of an unconditional love.

Absolutely. No other character comes close, despite all the VS apologists and there are so many of them!

You rang?

I am one of those players that loves all three love interests in ME1 and both have their romantic story arcs if you will.

Liara in ME2 (pre-LotSB) may have greeted Shepard with a kiss but then she turned cold ...

Ash/Kaidan in ME2 may have greeted you with a hug but then they turned angry ...

Liara fans were given LotSB to bring that relationship back to the happy place, if that Shepard wanted.

VS fans were given ... well, uh ... crap!

My Liara romanced Shepard is in a good place going into ME3 regarding that relationship.

My VS romanced Shepards are hoping to be able to work past ME2 as well. I was hoping that the DLC Arrival would have done that but ... well, uh ... crap!

I don't think any relationship is better than the others ... that any character loves Shepard more ... it's all about the Shepard/gamer and how they see it.

Liara going after the body of a douche Shepard is weird ... maybe she does it because only (s)he can save humanity against the reapers ... but then why does she have his/her armor? That is weird. They should have set the game where if Liara was not romanced she did not have the armor or dog tags at all as well as not be so "friendly" ... or Shepard be so "Liara is in there!" I can see where that got to be really WTF???? for those who are not her friend or like her.

But in all my games (romanced or not) Shepard cares about Liara so I personally never had a problem at all with LotSB. It does not mean that I don't understand the complaints. The same as those who hate the VS for Horizon, I don't but we all have our own viewpoints.

Your $$$, your game, your Shepard, your story.  

[Han Shot First]

Liara going after the body of a douche Shepard is weird

Liara trying to recover Shepard's body isn't weird, even if they weren't in a relationship and even if Shepard's personality left a lot to be desired. He had been her Commanding Officer and a comrade-in-arms. A quote from Shakespeare's version of Henry V might shed some light on her motivations.

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother."

[PMC65]

Han Shot First wrote...

Liara going after the body of a douche Shepard is weird

Liara trying to recover Shepard's body isn't weird, even if they weren't in a relationship and even if Shepard's personality left a lot to be desired. He had been her Commanding Officer and a comrade-in-arms. A quote from Shakespeare's version of Henry V might shed some light on her motivations.

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother."

And her keeping his armor?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

There is also the issue if Shepard was a spacer, even if Liara was romanced I hope she had the decency to ask Hannar before keeping the dog-tags and armor.

[Han Shot First]

PMC65 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Liara going after the body of a douche Shepard is weird

Liara trying to recover Shepard's body isn't weird, even if they weren't in a relationship and even if Shepard's personality left a lot to be desired. He had been her Commanding Officer and a comrade-in-arms. A quote from Shakespeare's version of Henry V might shed some light on her motivations.

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother."

And her keeping his armor?

It isn't unusual for people to keep something that belonged to someone close to them that passed away, if it reminds them of the person that died. In fact it is a fairly standard way that some people deal with mourning.

There is also the issue if Shepard was a spacer, even if Liara was romanced I hope she had the decency to ask Hannar before keeping the dog-tags and armor.

Shep may have had more than one set of dog tags. It isn't uncommon for people in the military to keep an extra pair of dog tags in their boots as well, so that their body can still be identified even if they get blown to pieces. So for all we know one set may have went to Hannah, and the others may have been in Shepard's boots.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 02 février 2012 - 07:23 .

[PMC65]

Han Shot First wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Liara going after the body of a douche Shepard is weird

Liara trying to recover Shepard's body isn't weird, even if they weren't in a relationship and even if Shepard's personality left a lot to be desired. He had been her Commanding Officer and a comrade-in-arms. A quote from Shakespeare's version of Henry V might shed some light on her motivations.

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother."

And her keeping his armor?

It isn't unusual for people to keep something that belonged to someone close to them that passed away, if it reminds them of the person that died. In fact it is a fairly standard way that some people deal with mourning.

The problem is that she keeps the armor of a Shepard that was openly hostile to her and yes, you can play it that way. That is one of my complaints with the game. Either allow the characters to call that Shepard out and not act like they were friends or take that option away.

If I had played a Shepard that hated Liara it would have been a WTF? seeing my armor in her place.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

PMC65 wrote...
The problem is that she keeps the armor of a Shepard that was openly hostile to her and yes, you can play it that way. That is one of my complaints with the game. Either allow the characters to call that Shepard out and not act like they were friends or take that option away.

If I had played a Shepard that hated Liara it would have been a WTF? seeing my armor in her place.

But that is really a problem that plaques all the ME1 characters.

Tali still speaks fondly of jerkass Shepard and even wanting to ride on said Jerkass if he is a man.

The VS still acts friendly and respectful over for Shepard.

Garrus acts like your old buddy even if you did not recruit him (only the initial dialog changes AFAIK).

It is not only Liara thats forced on Shepard.

"EDIT"

One thing that we should remember is that if Liara was not romanced, she recieved the dog-tags from Hackett so she could send the along.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 02 février 2012 - 07:31 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Han Shot First wrote...
Shep may have had more than one set of dog tags. It isn't uncommon for people in the military to keep an extra pair of dog tags in their boots as well, so that their body can still be identified even if they get blown to pieces. So for all we know one set may have went to Hannah, and the others may have been in Shepard's boots.

I was not aware of that.

Still, I just headcanon it as Liara asked Hannar at the funeral but was told she could keep them.

[PMC65]

Lizardviking wrote...

PMC65 wrote...
The problem is that she keeps the armor of a Shepard that was openly hostile to her and yes, you can play it that way. That is one of my complaints with the game. Either allow the characters to call that Shepard out and not act like they were friends or take that option away.

If I had played a Shepard that hated Liara it would have been a WTF? seeing my armor in her place.

But that is really a problem that plaques all the ME1 characters.

Tali still speaks fondly of jerkass Shepard and even wanting to ride on said Jerkass if he is a man.

The VS still acts friendly and respectful over for Shepard.

Garrus acts like your old buddy even if you did not recruit him (only the initial dialog changes AFAIK).

It is not only Liara thats forced on Shepard.

Absolutely ... I am hoping that in ME3 these "forced friendships" are either disposed of or Shepard's ability to be an absolute creep is taken away. If a player opts to say a jerky thing to Liara, Tali, VS, Miranda, etc the character should have a "screw you as5!" response.

[TMA LIVE]

It's implied that Liara only got the Tags while Shepard was still alive. And was given to her by Hackett. So she didn't give them to anyone, because Hackett wanted her to give them to Shepard.

[Hekate]

Ok, so my 'I Support Paragon Interrupt Kisses... With Liara' sig banner went down. Replaced with a image went down image. Anyone have it saved that can repost it on here for me please? Thanks.

[DigitalMaster37]

PMC65 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

PMC65 wrote...
The problem is that she keeps the armor of a Shepard that was openly hostile to her and yes, you can play it that way. That is one of my complaints with the game. Either allow the characters to call that Shepard out and not act like they were friends or take that option away.

If I had played a Shepard that hated Liara it would have been a WTF? seeing my armor in her place.

But that is really a problem that plaques all the ME1 characters.

Tali still speaks fondly of jerkass Shepard and even wanting to ride on said Jerkass if he is a man.

The VS still acts friendly and respectful over for Shepard.

Garrus acts like your old buddy even if you did not recruit him (only the initial dialog changes AFAIK).

It is not only Liara thats forced on Shepard.

Absolutely ... I am hoping that in ME3 these "forced friendships" are either disposed of or Shepard's ability to be an absolute creep is taken away. If a player opts to say a jerky thing to Liara, Tali, VS, Miranda, etc the character should have a "screw you as5!" response.

But see that is where the game's design and your preference separate. Shepard, no matter who plays him, cannot actually be a complete jerk. There is no dialog that allows you to completely get rid of your squadmate. Even if squaddies died in ME2, the context was never because "Shepard" hated them, maybe the jerk that played shepard, but not shepard himself. 

So BioWare is NOT gonna give you the opportunity to be a complete jerk as that will NOT fit in with the story or vein of the game. Instead that is your role playing which thankfully is not taken into effect in-game, but left to your imagination (thankfully)

No one is forced on anyone, that is Shepards squad, like it or not and they all have a place and in one way or another, been totally effective and vital to Shepards cause. 

If YOU hate them, that is merely a part of your imagination, of which you really cannot effectively express in-game, except to forego loyalty missions and whathaveyou to get them killed. But in context for example, Shepard simply didnt have the time to help Tali (for example sake) so she wasnt ready for the suicide mission. He is remorseful for that as well after all is said and done. Never will Shepard in game throw a party because a squaddie is gone or killed. 

Modifié par Deltaboy37-1, 02 février 2012 - 07:59 .

[PMC65]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

But see that is where the game's design and your preference separate. Shepard, no matter who plays him, cannot actually be a complete jerk. There is no dialog that allows you to completely get rid of your squadmate. Even if squaddies died in ME2, the context was never because "Shepard" hated them, maybe the jerk that played shepard, but not shepard himself. 

So BioWare is NOT gonna give you the opportunity to be a complete jerk as that will NOT fit in with the story or vein of the game. Instead that is your role playing which thankfully is not taken into effect in-game, but left to your imagination (thankfully)

No one is forced on anyone, that is Shepards squad, like it or not and they all have a place and in one way or another, been totally effective and vital to Shepards cause. 

If YOU hate them, that is merely a part of your imagination, of which you really cannot effectively express in-game, except to forego loyalty missions and whathaveyou to get them killed. But in context for example, Shepard simply didnt have the time to help Tali (for example sake) so she wasnt ready for the suicide mission. He is remorseful for that as well after all is said and done. Never will Shepard in game throw a party because a squaddie is gone or killed. 

You can be a jerk because I've clicked dialogue that has made me think "What a creep!" and then replayed the scene because I don't like playing a creep. If Bioware gave an in-game option to be rude to his teammates then having them respond in kind would have been much better.

Now I personally do not hate any of the characters nor have I played a Shepard who was a rude jerk because that fit none of my stories nor do I want to spend 80+ hours watching a creep. But if there is an option to not be "friends" with characters then Bioware should take that into account when looking at scenes.

EDIT: TOP

Modifié par PMC65, 02 février 2012 - 08:17 .

[hollow22_]

Yuqi wrote...

He is just jealous; because Liara gets all the girls, as well as the guys. 

epic win