208 réponses à ce sujet

[Maugrim]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

Hmm this almost calls for it's own thread. Fight Four The Love?!

Signed.  Signed.  Signed.  Signed.

Chris and javier are both about the forums right now, it would get killed pretty quick at the moment.

[Syledir]

 For the record. I support FemShep + Ashley.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

MegaBadExample wrote...
I agree with you. Ashley has always been open with herself and others about her beliefs. I can't see her turning gay or bi all of a sudden.

She wouldn't be turning gay.  She would always have been that way.  She just never got up on a soap box and made the announcement.

FemShep and Ashley are two peas in the same pod. 

[78stonewobble]

elektrego wrote...

Ash says, she believes in God, that is a long way from being religious or even christian. People and their assumptions!

Hmmm I wouldn't call it an assumption per say. She could surprise me offcourse but it would be a "big" surprice due to my interpretation of her character. It's just my interpretation though...

Well I probably wouldn't notice any change to my mshep's relationship to her. So it doesn't matter that much to me .

So if it adds to your experience I support you... Though I would like that change not to pop up in my game where I have my "favorite" interpretation of the characters

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 15 juin 2011 - 05:08 .

[Raanz]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

It fits perfectly.  A lot of gays go out of their way to make noise about how being gay shouldn't be so much as acknowledged.  Nevermind Garrus or Ashley living along side these other people while never being comfortable with themelves.  Eventually, they just sort it out.  In the ME games, Ashely and Garrus (and a certain someone else) eventually sort it out.

I'm curious as to why you think it would fit based on the reason you gave.  Does your reasoning have more to do with the idea that you would like to see it and that you would take advantage of the opportunity in your playthrough, or does it "really" make sense that it is done?  Not trying to be confrontational here, I just enjoy a good discussion.
 

You see, I think that a lot of folks that are saying it wouldn't be against established storylines and it would fit quite well in the story are probably really wanting this to happen for their own playthroughs....meaning they will excersize this new option for their character.  Because of that, they are trying to justify any character personality diversions it may cause.

[Aquilas]

If there was one heterosexual female left in the galaxy, it would be Operations Chief Ashley Williams.

I base my conclusion purely on the character creation and development seen in ME and, to a much lesser extent, ME2. Look at what Ash does, listen to what she says, and ask yourself if revealing Ash is bi, or homosexual with the Only True One, would be honest to the character.

I have absolutely no objections to homosexual relationships in games. I pursued them in Jade Empire and DAO. I pursued the Juhani romance in KotOR, and I played the FRevan mod for that game.

But to echo Seboist's comment earlier in this thread, revealing Ash is open to S/S relationships in ME3 would be a complete ass-pull. Ash wouldn't have to come out of the closet--she'd have to come out of a bank vault.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

Ashley probably hates homosexuals, it fits with the rest of her character.

[78stonewobble]

In any case it adds a bit of realism and immersion to me that I can't have any and everyone as a mshep or vice versa as femshep I'd assume.

[Eternal Dust]

Hyper Cutter wrote...

And if someone shows interest in the opposite sex while showing no interest in the same sex during an otherwise-identical scene, there's really only one interpretation for that.

Showing interest or lack of interest for one person does not define their entire sexuality.

Raanz wrote..

I never said I took no issue with what they
did to the characters of Garrus and Tali in ME2.  You make the same
mistake that you accuse me of: assumption.
Thank you for telling me
what my mindset is.  I have no preconceived notion of their orientation,
I have a developed notion of what their orientation is based on their
actions throughout the story in Mass Effect.  If any character was going
to have a "moment" with Shepard (regardless of sex or orientation) it
was going to be before Ilos....that's the way the story played out.  My
Shep was male, and I never got any inclination that Kaidan was bi during
any of the conversations he had with him.  So I didn't except to have
to turn him down at any point during the game.

Don't try and over
analyze my opinion.  It's just that, it's based solely on storytelling
and nothing on my views of sexuality and gamers.

So because Ash/Kaidan never expressed those feelings for Shepard in ME1, they can never be allowed to develop feelings later on? Characters must remain static for it to "fit" their personality?

Modifié par octoberfire, 15 juin 2011 - 10:04 .

[ReallyRue]

My main Shep is still holding out for this.

[Mecha Tengu]

far too many neckbeards

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Ashley wouldn't be my choice for a f/f LI mostly because she was mean to Liara, I found that very unattractive. But for the most part I like Ashley and don't see why she shouldn't be a s/s LI. I know gay people that are religious so I don't see what that has to do with anything, although some of them won't come out to their parents, some religious people are homophobic but not all. The Bible says a lot of things and Ashley didn't come across as the sort that believes everything from the Bible.

[Liliandra Nadiar]

MegaBadExample wrote...

Ash is a Christian, and grew up with three sisters. It would be out of her character for me. Besides I don't want ME3 to turn into a DA2 with romances. That failed. I'm fine with other characters being bi, like Liara. I understand that.

Wait, what? Not touching on the realigious aspect, please explain how having three sisters means she can't be interested or curious about having an intimate relationship with another woman.

[The dead fish]

No, no, and no. It doesn't work at all for Ashley. I don't want her turned bi because of ****ing fanservice again as in DA2.

Not because I am a fan of her, but because her character is at far the least credible for that. And those who want her turned bi don't care at all about her personality. So no, just to satisfy your will at the expense of the character.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 16 juin 2011 - 12:03 .

[bleetman]

Sylvianus wrote...

And those who want her turned bi don't care at all about her personality.

Oh my, yes. We all just want her for her smoking hot uniform-with-every-female-human-character-in-the-game body.

Hang on, that doesn't make any sort of sense. Hrmm.

[Eternal Dust]

Liliandra Nadiar wrote...

MegaBadExample wrote...

Ash is a Christian, and grew up with three sisters. It would be out of her character for me. Besides I don't want ME3 to turn into a DA2 with romances. That failed. I'm fine with other characters being bi, like Liara. I understand that.

Wait, what? Not touching on the realigious aspect, please explain how having three sisters means she can't be interested or curious about having an intimate relationship with another woman.

Because, obviously, having 3 sisters means they all gather around the pool and talk about boys. It's the pinnacle of heterosexual behavior, don't you know! :innocent:

[The dead fish]

bleetman wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

And those who want her turned bi don't care at all about her personality.

Oh my, yes. We all just want her for her smoking hot uniform-with-every-female-human-character-in-the-game body.

Hang on, that doesn't make any sort of sense. Hrmm.

The meaning is that if you respect her personality, you should not issue such a desire to see her personality altered only to have it.

And yes in real life, there are lovely girls who are lesbians. Unfortunately there is no god who uses his wand to alter their personality just to please me, me big guy egocentric who do not care what they are and how they are defined.
So I'm more inclined to believe what you said in your post indeed.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 16 juin 2011 - 12:12 .

[Eternal Dust]

Sylvianus wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

And those who want her turned bi don't care at all about her personality.

Oh my, yes. We all just want her for her smoking hot uniform-with-every-female-human-character-in-the-game body.

Hang on, that doesn't make any sort of sense. Hrmm.

The meaning is that if you respect her personality, you should not issue such a desire to see her personality altered only to have it.

And yes in real life, there are lovely girls who are lesbians. Unfortunately there is no god who uses his wand to alter their personality just to please me, my big guy egocentric who do not care what they are and how they are defined.
So I'm more inclined to believe what you said in your post indeed.

Personality ≠ sexuality

[The dead fish]

octoberfire wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

And those who want her turned bi don't care at all about her personality.

Oh my, yes. We all just want her for her smoking hot uniform-with-every-female-human-character-in-the-game body.

Hang on, that doesn't make any sort of sense. Hrmm.

The meaning is that if you respect her personality, you should not issue such a desire to see her personality altered only to have it.

And yes in real life, there are lovely girls who are lesbians. Unfortunately there is no god who uses his wand to alter their personality just to please me, my big guy egocentric who do not care what they are and how they are defined.
So I'm more inclined to believe what you said in your post indeed.

Personality ≠ sexuality

Ashley is a woman who knows what she wants. If she has not made signs to Femshep in M1 is that she obviously was not interested. No way in M3.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 16 juin 2011 - 12:17 .

[bleetman]

Sylvianus wrote...

The meaning is that if you respect her personality, you should not issue such a desire to see her personality altered only to have it.

Ignoring that her personality won't change in the slightest, despite whatever people seem intent on believing about bi/homosexual people, and that I've honestly yet to come across a compelling reason that rules it out in her case, why on earth not? I'd consider it pretty natural to hope your desires come to fruition.

This isn't pandering. If Bioware are comfortable in moving a character's writing in such a direction, which has yet to be confirmed anyway, I'm certainly not going to argue. What complete arrogance this is to maintain the writers can't decide what works for their characters.

Modifié par bleetman, 16 juin 2011 - 12:19 .

[Eternal Dust]

Sylvianus wrote...

octoberfire wrote...

Personality ≠ sexuality

Ashley is a woman who knows what she wants. If she has not made signs to Femshep in M1 is that she obviously was not interested. No way in M3.

Again, I'll repeat myself:

Showing interest or lack of interest for one person does not define their entire sexuality.

Just because Ash never expressed her feelings for a female Shepard in ME1 does not mean she can't develop feelings later on.

Modifié par octoberfire, 16 juin 2011 - 12:21 .

[The dead fish]

bleetman wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

The meaning is that if you respect her personality, you should not issue such a desire to see her personality altered only to have it.

Ignoring that her personality won't change in the slightest, despite whatever people seem intent on believing about bi/homosexual people, and that I've honestly yet to come across a compelling reason that rules it out in her case, why on earth not? I'd consider it pretty natural to hope your desires come to fruition.

This isn't pandering. If Bioware are comfortable in moving a character's writing in such a direction, which has yet to be confirmed anyway, I'm certainly not going to argue. What complete arrogance this is to maintain the writers can't decide what works for their characters.

Yes they can decide to do retcon. Writers have this right, but players aren't obliged to accept being taken for idiots. What will happen if Ashley is bi.

[The dead fish]

octoberfire wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

octoberfire wrote...

Personality ≠ sexuality

Ashley is a woman who knows what she wants. If she has not made signs to Femshep in M1 is that she obviously was not interested. No way in M3.

Again, I'll repeat myself:

Showing interest or lack of interest for one person does not define their entire sexuality.

Just because Ash never expressed her feelings for a female Shepard in ME1 does not mean she can't develop feelings later on.

But what's the point of ruining the best game character ? Sorry, it's subjective. What is the benefit to risk spoiling one of the best characters in the game in the eyes of those who have been fans since the early days and all the others?

Bioware has suddenly decided for reasons out of the game to implement gay romances. And all know it.  That's fine. But why should it become dangerous through the old romance available? Focus on new or at least the most credible. I know that if Ashley become bi it's not for the true reasons.

Ashley shouldn't be a romance if she  wasn't a LI  in M1, whether for  femshep or manshep in M3.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 16 juin 2011 - 12:32 .

[bleetman]

Sylvianus wrote...

Yes they can decide to do retcon. Writers have this right, but players aren't obliged to accept being taken for idiots. What will happen if Ashley is bi.

And I'll say it again: Ashley being revealed as bi-sexual (if, indeed, that even happens) doesn't contradict her ME1 character. The only established point about her sexuality is that she's interested in men. Any interest in women is inferred, because at no point is it made irrefutably clear that she isn't, and can never be. That might be a logical conclusion, but not a definitive one.

Sylvianus wrote...

But what's the point of ruining the best game character ? Sorry, it's subjective. What is the benefit to risk spoiling one of the best characters blah blah, yadda, so on and so forth.

Y'know, the fact you equate bi-sexuality with ruination probably suggests I shouldn't still be reading your posts.

Modifié par bleetman, 16 juin 2011 - 12:34 .

[Eternal Dust]

Sylvianus wrote...

octoberfire wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

octoberfire wrote...

Personality ≠ sexuality

Ashley is a woman who knows what she wants. If she has not made signs to Femshep in M1 is that she obviously was not interested. No way in M3.

Again, I'll repeat myself:

Showing interest or lack of interest for one person does not define their entire sexuality.

Just because Ash never expressed her feelings for a female Shepard in ME1 does not mean she can't develop feelings later on.

But what's the point of ruining the best game character ? Sorry, it's subjective. What is the benefit to risk spoiling one of the best characters in the game in the eyes of those who have been fans since the early days and all the others?

Bioware has suddenly decided for reasons out of the game to implement gay romances. And all know it.  That's fine. But why should it become dangerous through the old romance available? Focus on new or at least the most credible. I know that if Ashley become bi it's not for the true reasons.

Ashley shouldn't be a romance if she  wasn't a LI  in M1, whether for  femshep or manshep in M3.

How is it ruining her character? Did we not already establish that personality and sexuality are not the same? Just because she might be interested in FemShep does not mean she will become a different person.