208 réponses à ce sujet

[The dead fish]

Y'know, the fact you equate bi-sexuality with ruination probably suggests I shouldn't still be reading your posts

Yes in part. I want people are bi  because they were so decided from the beginning, not because at the end there a will to please some at the expense of the others besides. not because of fanservice it was decided to have some fun. I don't want her to be part of fanservice to some. This kind of process early is unacceptable.

Bioware would lack real consideration for those who believed in his stories and his work on the characters he creates seriously first.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 16 juin 2011 - 12:43 .

[ArawnNox]

People can and do change their beliefs, values, and personalities in as little as a year.
They are not static. A well developed character changes in response to the events of the story and their interaction with other characters (Liara). A poorly developed character is the same at the end of the story as they were at the beginning of the story (Jacob).

I, personally am in favor of Ashley being available as a S/S option, so call me biased if you want.

A well written character is not defined by their sexuality or how they choose to express it (Maya from Evangelion). It's one part of a whole tapestry that makes up a character. Making the character open to a same sex relationship (that, in this case, was originally intended, but cut, from what I understand) is no less of a "betrayal" than it was making Tali a love interest in ME2.

On the subject of Ash's faith being a "gay deal breaker" I have to say this. In her dialogues, she expresses her faith in a higher power (God), and that it gives her strength and a view of the afterlife. She does not talk about anything dogmatic in relation to that. She does not point out she's Christian. She could be Muslim or Jewish for all we know, and that's not discounting the multitudes of sects and denominations she could be a part of. Again, for all we know, she could be a part of a sect that has no problem with different sexuality. This is a minefield the game's writers decided not to go into.

So, ultimately, making Ash (or any other character) open to s/s relationships isn't always going to be a "messing up" of the character. The only betrayal will be what we've projected onto the character from our own opinions and biases.

[jlb524]

The fact that they're bringing Ashley back and giving her a large role (Spectre) is fanservice.

[The dead fish]

jlb524 wrote...

The fact that they're bringing Ashley back and giving her a large role (Spectre) is fanservice.

Nobody ask to make her spectre. Bioware has decided it.
I recall for all that Ashley's fans were the first surprised by this information and many didn't believe it until recently.

If Bioware has decided to make her spectre, it's not for us, but their story.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 16 juin 2011 - 12:47 .

[earthbornFemShep]

I have a modded femshep/ashley pairing, but it would be GREAT if the game supported it forthright. I'm for this in ME3!

[Eternal Dust]

Sylvianus wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

The fact that they're bringing Ashley back and giving her a large role (Spectre) is fanservice.

Nobody ask to make her spectre. Bioware has decided it.
I recall for all that Ashley's fans were the first surprised by this information and many didn't believe it until recently.

If Bioware has decided to make her spectre, it's not for us, but their story.

But nothing suggests she should have been a Spectre in the first game! She didn't show any traits of a good soldier. She left her squad to die on Eden Prime! Her family is blacklisted! RETCONNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jlb524]

Sylvianus wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

The fact that they're bringing Ashley back and giving her a large role (Spectre) is fanservice.

Nobody ask to make her spectre. Bioware has decided it.
I recall for all that Ashley's fans were the first surprised by this information and many didn't believe it until recently.

If Bioware has decided to make her spectre, it's not for us, but their story.

You could say they only made her a Spectre in order to bring her back and make her relevant...b/c that's what the fans asked for. 

[The dead fish]

octoberfire wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

The fact that they're bringing Ashley back and giving her a large role (Spectre) is fanservice.

Nobody ask to make her spectre. Bioware has decided it.
I recall for all that Ashley's fans were the first surprised by this information and many didn't believe it until recently.

If Bioware has decided to make her spectre, it's not for us, but their story.

But nothing suggests she should have been a Spectre in the first game! She didn't show any traits of a good soldier. She left her squad to die on Eden Prime! Her family is blacklisted! RETCONNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nobody asked to make her spectre, as you ask to make her bi just to satisfy some. That's matter  darling.
And I see many reasons, in particular politicians but we'll see.

Bioware has decided it, not us, so....

Modifié par Sylvianus, 16 juin 2011 - 12:58 .

[jlb524]

Actually, there were some fans that wanted Ashley (and Kaidan) to become Spectres.

[The dead fish]

jlb524 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

The fact that they're bringing Ashley back and giving her a large role (Spectre) is fanservice.

Nobody ask to make her spectre. Bioware has decided it.
I recall for all that Ashley's fans were the first surprised by this information and many didn't believe it until recently.

If Bioware has decided to make her spectre, it's not for us, but their story.

You could say they only made her a Spectre in order to bring her back and make her relevant...b/c that's what the fans asked for. 

Speculation, we don't know why they make her spectre. We'll know in the game infortunately. :s

Modifié par Sylvianus, 16 juin 2011 - 01:02 .

[The dead fish]

jlb524 wrote...

Actually, there were some fans that wanted Ashley (and Kaidan) to become Spectres.

Actually I've seen people speculate like anyone in any topic that she would become a spectre, that's all. I've never seen anyone asked that she must be a spectre, or worse, created a topic. I would have seen it, given how many people hated Ashley before her new look.

Ashley must be a spectre because they have decided it, because that's the story they wanted, not because the fans have requested, I am very clear on this.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 16 juin 2011 - 01:09 .

[bleetman]

Sylvianus wrote...

Speculation, we don't know why they make her spectre. We'll know in the game infortunately. :s

Nor do we know why they're making her bo-sexual. Assuming they even are, that is. That you constantly call it 'fan service' doesn't make it the case.

Remember that post about arrogance? <_<

[Eternal Dust]

Sylvianus wrote...

Ashley must be a spectre because they have decided it, because that's the story they wanted, not because the fans have requested, I am very clear on this.

Then Ashley can be bi because they (BioWare) have decided it, because that's the story they wanted, regardless of whether the fans have requested it or not.

[The dead fish]

bleetman wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Speculation, we don't know why they make her spectre. We'll know in the game infortunately. :s

Nor do we know why they're making her bo-sexual. Assuming they even are, that is. That you constantly call it 'fan service' doesn't make it the case.

Remember that post about arrogance? <_<

I said that the process was unacceptable and that it would be stupid fanservice. I never said that Bioware is currently practiced it with her. <_<

Modifié par Sylvianus, 16 juin 2011 - 01:17 .

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Sylvianus wrote...

Ashley is a woman who knows what she wants. If she has not made signs to Femshep in M1 is that she obviously was not interested. No way in M3.

"We Willaims women are  a decivie bunch commander. We do things when we're ready, not before." Ashley Willaims, SSV Normandy SR1, Mass Effect 1 (slight paraphrasing possible)

So if she wasn't ready to try approaching Femshep in ME1, she wouldn't. It's now two years later and if she is ready, she'll make/be responsive to Femshep.

Modifié par Liliandra Nadiar, 16 juin 2011 - 01:21 .

[jbblue05]

octoberfire wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Ashley must be a spectre because they have decided it, because that's the story they wanted, not because the fans have requested, I am very clear on this.

Then Ashley can be bi because they (BioWare) have decided it, because that's the story they wanted, regardless of whether the fans have requested it or not.

So everyone on your squad and Shpeard realizes they're attracted to the same gender in ME3 and not from the beginning.   Yeah I think its just appeasement for the pro-gay crowd and not Bioware's intention

Modifié par jbblue05, 16 juin 2011 - 01:25 .

[jbblue05]

Sylvianus wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Actually, there were some fans that wanted Ashley (and Kaidan) to become Spectres.

Actually I've seen people speculate like anyone in any topic that she would become a spectre, that's all. I've never seen anyone asked that she must be a spectre, or worse, created a topic. I would have seen it, given how many people hated Ashley before her new look.

Ashley must be a spectre because they have decided it, because that's the story they wanted, not because the fans have requested, I am very clear on this.

None of the Ash fans asked for her to be Mirandified.
We never asked for the huge rack and the catsuit.
If Ash is s/s tyhey might as well make her Atheist and thiink aliens are supercool.
just to make an Ash a more agreeable character.  

I really don't want them tearing down the foundation of Ash's character just to get her more fans its a big F U for pre ME3 Ash fans 

Modifié par jbblue05, 16 juin 2011 - 01:31 .

[The dead fish]

octoberfire wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Ashley must be a spectre because they have decided it, because that's the story they wanted, not because the fans have requested, I am very clear on this.

Then Ashley can be bi because they (BioWare) have decided it, because that's the story they wanted, regardless of whether the fans have requested it or not.

If it had decided that Ashley was to be a bi romance, they would have done it in M1. And you know it. That wasn't the case. These kind of things are decided in the first game.

 As I said, they can also decide to do retcon to satisfy some at the expense of others.

Let's not prentending, we know the true reasons if they do that like in DA2.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 16 juin 2011 - 01:36 .

[jlb524]

Sylvianus wrote...

Speculation, we don't know why they make her spectre. We'll know in the game infortunately. :s

Yes, because it totally makes sense for someone who was so wary of non-humans and the Council in ME1 to join up with them and become one of their most elite operatives sometime in ME2/ME3 (whenver it happened).

[shepskisaac]

Sylvianus wrote...
If it had decided that Ashley was to be a bi romance, they would have done it in M1. And you know it. That wasn't the case. These kind of things are decided in the first game.

Urhm, but they did wanted her to be bi romance. It was cut due to time constraints. Why can't implement it now? They dropped the idea of Talimance from ME1 too but they reimplemented it in ME2.

Sylvianus wrote...
 As I said, they can also decide to do retcon to satisfy some at the expense of others.

First of all, in order to retcon something it has to be established in the first place. She doesn't state her orientation. Means neither you, nor I, can know if she's only interested in man or also in women. Only BW does.

[Eternal Dust]

Sylvianus wrote...
If it had decided that Ashley was to be a bi romance, they would have done it in M1. And you know it. That wasn't the case. These kind of things are decided in the first game.

Really? They are 100% set on how everything is and never change or improve upon it in the sequels? Like how they never changed guns from overheating to thermal clips? Or changed the gameplay or added more biotic powers? Or how you can suddenly romance Garrus and Tali?

As I said, they can also decide to do retcon to satisfy some at the expense of others.

At this point, do you even know what the word retcon even means anymore or do you just echo what others say?

Let's not prentending, we know the true reasons if they do that like in DA2.

Like in DA2? Someone please dig up that David Gaider quote on how the romances in DA2 were implemented the way they were to save time and resources and not because they wanted to "appease" a certain group of people. <_<

Modifié par octoberfire, 16 juin 2011 - 01:47 .

[The dead fish]

jlb524 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Speculation, we don't know why they make her spectre. We'll know in the game infortunately. :s

Yes, because it totally makes sense for someone who was so wary of non-humans and the Council in ME1 to join up with them and become one of their most elite operatives sometime in ME2/ME3 (whenver it happened).

1- Shepard has no choice, the Alliance requires it to be a spectre. It couble be the same for Ashley/Kaidan.

2- Ashley can be convinced to work with the aliens in M1, my paragon shepard did. Besides she wanted to save the destiny ascension, and Liara not. There is already a progress in M1.

3- Ashley will always do her duty, even if she is not a fan of aliens. The Alliance need her, she will answer.

4- Humanity may need a new spectre to replace Shepard during his trial. As Shepard to choose a spectre, certainly the best known, not necessarily the most qualified. So a VS.

5 - Don't forget the politics, shepard became a spectre, because the council wanted to make a compromise with Humanity, not because they really wanted him.

It's not my fault if you do not know Mass Effect as well as you think.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 16 juin 2011 - 01:52 .

[jlb524]

Sylvianus wrote...
1- Shepard has no choice,the Alliance requires it to be a spectre. It couble be the same for Ashley/Kaidan.

That's false.  Also, given what happened to Shepard, I would think the Council would be wary about making another human a Spectre. 

Sylvianus wrote...
2- Ashley can be convinced to work with the aliens in M1, my paragon shepard did. Besides she wanted to save the destiny ascension, and Liara not. There is already a progress in M1.

That's only if you romance her and change her view on non-humans...which not everyone did...including myself.

Sylvianus wrote...
3- Ashley will always do her duty, even if she is not a fan of aliens. The Alliance need her, she will answer.

The Spectre's answer to the Council...not the Alliance.  If the Alliance needs her so bad...why not put all her effort into aiding them?

Sylvianus wrote...
4- Humanity may need a new spectre to replace Shepard during his trial. As Shepard to choose a spectre, certainly the best known, not necessarily the most qualified. So a VS.

Shepard could have already left the Spectres before the trial.

Sylvianus wrote...
5 - Don't forget the politics, shepard became a spectre, because the council wanted to make a compromise with Humanity, not because they really wanted him.

I'd say it was a mixture of both.  If not, any old Alliance Soldier would do.

[jbblue05]

IsaacShep wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...
If it had decided that Ashley was to be a bi romance, they would have done it in M1. And you know it. That wasn't the case. These kind of things are decided in the first game.

Urhm, but they did wanted her to be bi romance. It was cut due to time constraints. Why can't implement it now? They dropped the idea of Talimance from ME1 too but they reimplemented it in ME2.

Sylvianus wrote...
 As I said, they can also decide to do retcon to satisfy some at the expense of others.

First of all, in order to retcon something it has to be established in the first place. She doesn't state her orientation. Means neither you, nor I, can know if she's only interested in man or also in women. Only BW does.

Their is no sexual identiy in the s/s dialogue male shep and femshep have the same exact lines.  It was something that was suggested but got cut.  Talimance in ME1 was cut because one of the devs thought nobody would romance a girl who wears an enviro suit. and has chicken feet.

[jlb524]

I just wonder why some Ash fans are so concerned over this, considering Ashley's potential love for the ladies will never ever be shown in their MaleShep playthroughs?

I'm pretty sure the only way you will see it is:

1) play as FemShep
2) flirt with Ashley
3) profit