208 réponses à ce sujet

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Eh, there will always be those that find theoption for it to be offensive enough. Even if they're never see it in their own games.

[bleetman]

jlb524 wrote...

I just wonder why some Ash fans are so concerned over this, considering Ashley's potential love for the ladies will never ever be shown in their MaleShep playthroughs?

Because someone, somewhere will be getting it on with her and a femshep. Which is unacceptable and will make her wear tanktops and leather shorts, and whatever other tiresome bisexual female behaviour stereotypes they've got rattling around in that head of theirs.

And we can't have that, no sir.

Modifié par bleetman, 16 juin 2011 - 02:16 .

[Volus Warlord]

Liliandra Nadiar wrote...

Eh, there will always be those that find theoption for it to be offensive enough. Even if they're never see it in their own games.

I am offended by  the option. Even if I do not see it in my own game!

[The dead fish]

octoberfire wrote...

At this point, do you even know what the word retcon even means anymore or do you just echo what others say?

That's what I think. And the reasons are there, you don't want to see the same.

This is exactly the same as claiming that Ashley is going to become a prostitute. No of course it would not be a retcon, because she didn't say she didn't like prostitutes. She said nothing about them.  It is clear that a character is measured not only in what he says, what he thinks and act, but also to all of what comes out of a whole.

There are things that do not fit with the character, although it may evolve. And there are many for Ashley, the

the character most defined of the game and that's why so many people love it or hate it. There is no half measure, for her and her strong personality.

There are things that do not fit with the character, although it may evolve.

Let's not prentending, we know the true reasons if they do that like in DA2.

Like in DA2? Someone please dig up that David Gaider quote on how the romances in DA2 were implemented the way they were to save time and resources and not because they wanted to "appease" a certain group of people. <_<

  David Gaider ? Let'see. This guy who has insulted all those against the system they Are all bi because it's a  silly mecanism,  homophobic?Don't tell me about David Gaider, I will not say more about him because this is not really the place and because he doesn't desserve it. Of all, it is one that's less credible.

It's been several months since I read the forums DA2, and the reason you gave is true but It has been argued many time that gays people in the media were under-represented, what motivated primarily Bioware to do the jump. I thought however that it wasn't to appease some groupe.

[jbblue05]

jlb524 wrote...

I just wonder why some Ash fans are so concerned over this, considering Ashley's potential love for the ladies will never ever be shown in their MaleShep playthroughs?

I'm pretty sure the only way you will see it is:

1) play as FemShep
2) flirt with Ashley
3) profit

Well sexuality is a big part of a character's personaility.

I would like Ash to be remembered as one of Bioware's deep, more complex, and controversial characters.

Not the Miranda wannabe, that runs around in a catsuit and does girl on girl.

[bleetman]

Sylvianus wrote...

This is exactly the same as claiming that Ashley is going to become a prostitute.

Sometimes, this place causes me actual, physical pain.

[Eternal Dust]

*headdesk*

*headdesk*

*headdesk*

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I don't think there is anything in Ashley's personality in ME 1 that would make me think that she couldn't have been gay. But I do think it would be out of character for her to be one to stay in the closet, especially given what was at stake. And I also don't think that it's unreasonable to believe that she is straight based on her only being able to romance Male Shepard. Would making her bi fundamentally change her character? No, but that doesn't really mean that it would make sense if they did go ahead with it. If they had arbitrarily changed her ethnicity or radically altered her facial features or recast her voice actress it would have not affected how she was written but it still would have created a major character discontinuity.

I certainly understand why people want her to be a S/S love interest, but I don't agree. And I also don't know that I would agree with Male Shepard or Female Shepard newly romancing Ashley in ME 3.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 16 juin 2011 - 02:27 .

[jlb524]

octoberfire wrote...

*headdesk*

*headdesk*

*headdesk*

[Ziggy]

jbblue05 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I just wonder why some Ash fans are so concerned over this, considering Ashley's potential love for the ladies will never ever be shown in their MaleShep playthroughs?

I'm pretty sure the only way you will see it is:

1) play as FemShep
2) flirt with Ashley
3) profit

Well sexuality is a big part of a character's personaility.

I would like Ash to be remembered as one of Bioware's deep, more complex, and controversial characters.

Not the Miranda wannabe, that runs around in a catsuit and does girl on girl.

Me too!
apart from the no girl on girl bit. You cheapen lesbian relationships, they can be just as meaningfull (and just as meaningless) as hetero ones.
She can be deep and complex and strong and independent and fall for femshep.

Modifié par Em23, 16 juin 2011 - 02:31 .

[ADLegend21]

jbblue05 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I just wonder why some Ash fans are so concerned over this, considering Ashley's potential love for the ladies will never ever be shown in their MaleShep playthroughs?

I'm pretty sure the only way you will see it is:

1) play as FemShep
2) flirt with Ashley
3) profit

Well sexuality is a big part of a character's personaility.

I would like Ash to be remembered as one of Bioware's deep, more complex, and controversial characters.

Not the Miranda wannabe, that runs around in a catsuit and does girl on girl.

Sexuality=/= personality. I know plenty of gay people I thought were straight becauseof how they act. Not everyone wears their sexuality on their sleeve. Ash doesn't go "blah blah blah I'm straight blah blah" Plus to the "retcon point" it's not a retcon if she suddenly realizes she has feelings for a female Shepard. since you know, it just happened. plus it'd be femshep only as jlb said,it's not like she'llw alk up to male shep and go "So yeah I'm gay, we're through" and walks away to make out with Liara.

[The dead fish]

jlb524 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...
1- Shepard has no choice,the Alliance requires it to be a spectre. It couble be the same for Ashley/Kaidan.

That's false.  Also, given what happened to Shepard, I would think the Council would be wary about making another human a Spectre. 

Sylvianus wrote...
2- Ashley can be convinced to work with the aliens in M1, my paragon shepard did. Besides she wanted to save the destiny ascension, and Liara not. There is already a progress in M1.

That's only if you romance her and change her view on non-humans...which not everyone did...including myself.

Sylvianus wrote...
3- Ashley will always do her duty, even if she is not a fan of aliens. The Alliance need her, she will answer.

The Spectre's answer to the Council...not the Alliance.  If the Alliance needs her so bad...why not put all her effort into aiding them?

Sylvianus wrote...
4- Humanity may need a new spectre to replace Shepard during his trial. As Shepard to choose a spectre, certainly the best known, not necessarily the most qualified. So a VS.

Shepard could have already left the Spectres before the trial.

Sylvianus wrote...
5 - Don't forget the politics, shepard became a spectre, because the council wanted to make a compromise with Humanity, not because they really wanted him.

I'd say it was a mixture of both.  If not, any old Alliance Soldier would do.

Shepard has no choice. When Shepard asked if he will not be a spectre, Anderson lets him know subtly that he has no choice, because humanity needs him. And they need their best candidate. Ashley as Shepard has a total dedication to the Alliance.

That's only if you romance her and change her view on non-humans...which not everyone did...including myself.

And it's looking at you. Not me, we'll see in the game if there will be difference. And there is obviously the main reason that Ashley will meet the expectations of the alliance.

" The Spectre's answer to the Council...not the Alliance.  If the Alliance needs her so bad...why not put all her effort into aiding them? "

You know what I mean. The Alliance need her to accept the collaboration with the council, if she is chosen by Humanity. So it works.

Shepard could have already left the Spectres before the trial.

It's just a hypothesis that shows that there are lots of possible justifications, and warn you to wait until you play the game before you decide that's not logic. Because me I see the logic somewhere.

Ashley is very competent, your view is merely subjective. If you think she is not strong based on her ranking, it's looking at you. After all she lived experience is long since become an elite fighter. Not the highest ranking or the best, but enough to become human spectre. Be among the best, not necessarily the best of human marines. Can be seen to have played a role, as Shepard.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 16 juin 2011 - 02:32 .

[PlumPaul93]

I don't really mind it to be honest as long as it makes some sense and isn't a "we did it to make people who wanted it happy". However I have a question to those who want ashley for S/S romance, what makes you want ashley to be a romance option. Her character and backstory, etc? Or the fact that she's one of the few human women in the game?

[Raanz]

octoberfire wrote...

So because Ash/Kaidan never expressed those feelings for Shepard in ME1, they can never be allowed to develop feelings later on? Characters must remain static for it to "fit" their personality?

I will give you an A for effort.  I believe that a lot of folks that play would never figure Ashley or Kaidan for bisexual based on playing the game.  Now, if you want to excuse such a drastic change in personality because you want to see it, with "well she never said she wasn't" then you do what makes you feel better.

I gave my opinion on the matter....let me restate it:  Such a change would not make sense to me.  I would chalk it up to a "fanservice" and keep playing the game...much like I chalked Tali and Garrus's sudden sexual interest in a species that they are not even biologically compatible with (without the heavy use of drugs).  Hey, maybe that's the answer, copious amounts of drugs and everyone wants to bump uglies with Shep. (joke)

As far as I am concerned, Bioware will do what they want with their characters and it's no skin off of my teeth, my point being that the move would be contrived and kind of silly.

[jbblue05]

Em23 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I just wonder why some Ash fans are so concerned over this, considering Ashley's potential love for the ladies will never ever be shown in their MaleShep playthroughs?

I'm pretty sure the only way you will see it is:

1) play as FemShep
2) flirt with Ashley
3) profit

Well sexuality is a big part of a character's personaility.

I would like Ash to be remembered as one of Bioware's deep, more complex, and controversial characters.

Not the Miranda wannabe, that runs around in a catsuit and does girl on girl.

Me too!
apart from the no girl on girl bit. You cheapen lesbian relationships, they can be just as meaningfull (and just as meaningless) as hetero ones.
She can be deep and complex and strong and independent and fall for femshep.

Maybe Ash has a defined sexuality from the beginning,
From what I've seen of Ash so far in ME3 I think making her S/S romance is just to make her less controversial and more agreeable as a character

I agree it cheapens lesbian romances. If Ash comes out of the closet it will be no different  than the Tali-mance in ME2.
, .

[jlb524]

Sylvianus wrote...

Shepard has no choice. When Shepard asked if he will not be a spectre, Anderson lets him know subtly that he has no choice, because humanity needs him. And they need their best candidate. Ashley as Shepard has a total dedication to the Alliance.

Now explain to me why the Council would trust another human Spectre when the first one went rogue and started working for a human supremicist group?

Sylvianus wrote...
And it's looking at you. Not me, we'll see in the game if there will be difference. And there is obviously the main reason that Ashley will meet the expectations of the alliance.

But it's not 'looking' at me...we will see, but I didn't see it and if they add it into ME3 it's a.......RETCON!!!!!!!!!!

Sylvianus wrote...

It's just a hypothesis that shows that there are lots of possible justifications, and warn you to wait until you play the game before you decide that's not logic. Because me I see the logic somewhere.

Oh, but there are possible explanations/justifications for Ashley's bisexuality as well.  I would warn you to wait until you play ME3 to decide if it's not logical...though, if you only play MaleShep you will never see it anyway.

But do you see that you are doing the same as we are?

You are coming up with possible reasons to explain change 'X' in Ashley even though there's no past indication that change 'X' would occur. 

Sylvianus wrote...
Ashley is very competent, your view is merely subjective. If you think she is not strong based on her ranking, it's looking at you. After all she lived experience is long since become an elite fighter. Not the highest ranking or the best, but enough to become human spectre. Be among the best, not necessarily the best of human marines. Can be seen to have played a role, as Shepard.

Oh, I think she's qualified...I'm not saying she's not.  I'm saying that this change doesn't make sense given some other things we know from past games.   However, I assume they will explain it all in ME3. 

Modifié par jlb524, 16 juin 2011 - 02:41 .

[Mr.House]

jlb524 wrote...

octoberfire wrote...

*headdesk*

*headdesk*

*headdesk*

[jlb524]

Raanz wrote...
I will give you an A for effort.  I believe that a lot of folks that play would never figure Ashley or Kaidan for bisexual based on playing the game.  Now, if you want to excuse such a drastic change in personality because you want to see it, with "well she never said she wasn't" then you do what makes you feel better.

As I don't romance either characters, I don't figure them as anything.  Plus, what 'drastic' personality change will bisexual Ashley show?  Will she become a wallflower?  Start hating poetry?  Not give a damn about her family anymore?

Raanz wrote...
As far as I am concerned, Bioware will do what they want with their characters and it's no skin off of my teeth, my point being that the move would be contrived and kind of silly.

Then don't play the FemShep/Ash romance if it's added.

[jbblue05]

ADLegend21 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I just wonder why some Ash fans are so concerned over this, considering Ashley's potential love for the ladies will never ever be shown in their MaleShep playthroughs?

I'm pretty sure the only way you will see it is:

1) play as FemShep
2) flirt with Ashley
3) profit

Well sexuality is a big part of a character's personaility.

I would like Ash to be remembered as one of Bioware's deep, more complex, and controversial characters.

Not the Miranda wannabe, that runs around in a catsuit and does girl on girl.

Sexuality=/= personality. I know plenty of gay people I thought were straight becauseof how they act. Not everyone wears their sexuality on their sleeve. Ash doesn't go "blah blah blah I'm straight blah blah" Plus to the "retcon point" it's not a retcon if she suddenly realizes she has feelings for a female Shepard. since you know, it just happened. plus it'd be femshep only as jlb said,it's not like she'llw alk up to male shep and go "So yeah I'm gay, we're through" and walks away to make out with Liara.

I never said Sexuality=Personality. A character sexuality helps you identify with them

Straight people feel like they don't have to show their sexual orientation unless they have unwanted advances from the same sex.

I want character consistency in ME3 like it was in DA Origins.  No matter if you were male or female Zevran slept with both men and women but he preferred women same with Leliana.   .

[Eternal Dust]

Anyone feel like a broken record by now?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I know this is off topic but why would Shepard's actions in ME 2 blacklist the entire human species from being spectre candidates? That doesn't make sense to me. Especially since they still offered to reinstate Shepard while he was doing it. They evidently still would accept turian spectres even though their best agent was a Turian who betrayed them to the Reapers/Geth.

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Sylvianus wrote...

Shepard has no choice. When Shepard asked if he will not be a spectre, Anderson lets him know subtly that he has no choice, because humanity needs him. And they need their best candidate. Ashley as Shepard has a total dedication to the Alliance.

I saw that more that the Alliance brass has already put Shepard's name forward as a canidate to be concidered (thus Nihlius' presence from the get go), so it's more a case of asking 'forgiveness' over asking permission. (Plot elements aside)

That's only if you romance her and change her view on non-humans...which not everyone did...including myself.

And it's looking at you. Not me, we'll see in the game if there will be difference. And there is obviously the main reason that Ashley will meet the expectations of the alliance.

" The Spectre's answer to the Council...not the Alliance.  If the Alliance needs her so bad...why not put all her effort into aiding them? "

You know what I mean. The Alliance need her to accept the collaboration with the council, if she is chosen by Humanity. So it works.

Only problem I have with that is Ashley's 'history' with the brass concerning her family. Ash is loyal to the Alliance, this is pretty much an iron-clad fact. The Alliance is not, necsesarilly loyal back. ME1 and Shepard's 'influence' put her into the spotlight and forced the Alliance to reward her actions. I don't see the Alliance (san Anderson) putting Ashley up for Specter nomination of their own initiative.

Shepard could have already left the Spectres before the trial.

It's just a hypothesis that shows that there are lots of possible justifications, and warn you to wait until you play the game before you decide that's not logic. Because me I see the logic somewhere.

Ashley is very competent, your view is merely subjective. If you think she is not strong based on her ranking, it's looking at you. After all she lived experience is long since become an elite fighter. Not the highest ranking or the best, but enough to become human spectre. Be among the best, not necessarily the best of human marines. Can be seen to have played a role, as Shepard.

Actually, Shep 'left' the Specters at the begining of ME2 after being killed. Thus it's very possible that there was no human Specter in the intervining time (and through ME2 if you played that way).

[jlb524]

jbblue05 wrote...

I want character consistency in ME3 like it was in DA Origins.  No matter if you were male or female Zevran slept with both men and women but he preferred women same with Leliana.   .

Leliana didn't even mention men if you played a female Warden...she's an inconsistent bisexual, I suppose.

[Liliandra Nadiar]

octoberfire wrote...

Anyone feel like a broken record by now?

Fairly, though I do find this oddly amusing. *shrugs*

[The dead fish]

jlb524 wrote...Now explain to me why the Council would trust another human Spectre when the first one went rogue and started working for a human supremicist group?

* Epic facepalm *

Because maybe  humanity is a part of the council. Because humanity judge shepard and takes her responsability as race's council?

Gone are the days when humanity begged the Council. It is part of the Council now.

Humanity is absolutely the right to require another human spectrum, as there are no any more. Do not you think it's a legitimate request?

I'm sorry to tell you, but you didn't seem to understand either Mass Effect or you are completely void in geopolitics. Do we must all bring you on a platter ?

Now everything else, I do not answer, because it's your right to think that about Ashley.

I find it not at all convincing to say Ashley has never said that, " she wasn't interested ".  What a theory yeah. M1, m2, and hop suddenly, she turned bi...

Where is the relevance, when it's all a character who threatens to be changed in the last episode ? If you don't understand that it can upset because you're too stuck in your own desires, that's unfortunate.

Since when characters should strongly proclaim " I'm straight " to be sure it is straight ...

Modifié par Sylvianus, 16 juin 2011 - 03:02 .