208 réponses à ce sujet

[Eternal Dust]

jbblue05 wrote...
You're argument is a slippery slope.  You might as well say everybody can easily be bisexual, all aliens could be open to some xenophilia.  Everyone could be up for some Beastiality. Everybody could be open to sex with robots.

You've got to be kidding me.

[ADLegend21]

jbblue05 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

and what consistency would ashley have in a femshep playthrough where she's not romanced stay "stag" and single? She never mentions any guys to either Male or female Shepard so it's only assumed she's straight because she cna be romanced by a male shepard without the unused files allowing for femshep to do the same, she could STILL be bi since bisexuals date people of both genders. She's never said declared she was straight so her sexuality is up in the air. She'd still love poetry, care deeply for her family name (which she's done proud by becoming a Spectre and Lieutenant) and defend the Alliance and humanity with every fiber in her being. Same Ash different lovers.

In a femshep playthrough  or if you give Ash the You're out of line dialogue Ash still gets the e-mail from her sister "that Kaidan is cute"  Their is still "James" e-mail.
I'm sure Bioware can alter her character to be bi in many ways.. But in ME1 she's Straight, she never hits on a female character
You're argument is a slippery slope.  You might as well say everybody can easily be bisexual, all aliens could be open to some xenophilia.  Everyone could be up for some Beastiality. Everybody could be open to sex with robots.

Ash has already been altered from ME1 Ash. In a way Bioware is admitting they made a mistake with Ash and they're altering her to be a more agreeable character.  Ash should be the character Bioware intended from the Begiining of ME1, making her a F/F romance is appeasement and making her more agreeable

She never hits on any male Characters either! (Male Shep not withstanding) Kaidan's cute to her younger sister but when aske dif she has eyes for the Lieutenant she says no. Also James is cute, but bisexuals are attracted to both genders. My arguements pretty solid, you're just making grabs at outlandish logic. Ash being "altered" is called Character growth, they do grow over timeotherwise there's not point in advancing the story if no one grows from the beginning. Hell for all I know Ash is a nun in PT's where I'm not romancing her or just plain avoiding her except for combat situations. in Me1 She was intended to be bisexual so Bioware WOULD be making her how they inteded from ME1  since you know they ahd to cut S.Sstuff due to time contstraights and they delayed it to make sure there was no such occurence this time around.

[jbblue05]

ADLegend21 wrote...


She never hits on any male Characters either! (Male Shep not withstanding) Kaidan's cute to her younger sister but when aske dif she has eyes for the Lieutenant she says no. Also James is cute, but bisexuals are attracted to both genders. My arguements pretty solid, you're just making grabs at outlandish logic. Ash being "altered" is called Character growth, they do grow over timeotherwise there's not point in advancing the story if no one grows from the beginning. Hell for all I know Ash is a nun in PT's where I'm not romancing her or just plain avoiding her except for combat situations. in Me1 She was intended to be bisexual so Bioware WOULD be making her how they inteded from ME1  since you know they ahd to cut S.Sstuff due to time contstraights and they delayed it to make sure there was no such occurence this time around.

You're going into "What if?" scenarios.  Its really convienent Ash is all of a sudden interested the same sex the exact time Bioware decides to install s/s romances. 
So Ash wearing a catsuit and getting huge boobs is "character growth"

Why weren't their s.s romances in ME2 than.  Bioware had more resources from EA..  They had unique s/s dialogue for characters like Thane and Miranda in hidden files.   Facts are same sex has been cut in both ME1 and 2.it has been suggested but never implemented until now.

If Ash is bi from the beginning, why doesn't she show interest in Femshep that sleeps with the consort, watches Asari strippers, or is interested in Liara.  Those are green lights that Femshep is interested in the same sex

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I think altering sexuality is too big of a change, plus I don't know why it would really amount to any real character development if her personality stays the same. If Zevran, for example, appeared in a future Dragon Age and had mostly lost interest in men, I would not be impressed with that turn of events either.

[Syledir]

post from a different thread:
I've got the impression that some people tend to forget one thing. Ashley would still love only YOUR MShep, even if she would be open to s/s romance in ME3. She would have fallen in love with your MShep in ME1, lost and found him again in ME2 and would (maybe) welcome him back with open arms in ME3. Or do you believe she would say something like: "Oh Shepard, I wish you were a woman." Come on. Have some trust in BioWare. Look at what they have done with Dragon Age 2. All of the LIs made sure that you know that they love your Hawke for who he/she is. Not what gender he/she has. And the little hear icons in the dialogue wheel made sure that there was no ninjamancing. So people who felt uncomfortable with s/s romance could avoid it, easily.

Or is it the knowledge enough that someone, somewhere wants to see a romance between FemShep and Ashley that bothers them so much? Clearly, falling in love with FemShep would turn THEIR beautiful Ashley into something vile and disgusting, right?

Again, romances will be optional. No one will be forced into anything. But every player should have the freedom to have the same choices everyone else does, thus turning a good game in a satisfying experience.

[jbblue05]

Syledir wrote...

post from a different thread:
I've got the impression that some people tend to forget one thing. Ashley would still love only YOUR MShep, even if she would be open to s/s romance in ME3. She would have fallen in love with your MShep in ME1, lost and found him again in ME2 and would (maybe) welcome him back with open arms in ME3. Or do you believe she would say something like: "Oh Shepard, I wish you were a woman." Come on. Have some trust in BioWare. Look at what they have done with Dragon Age 2. All of the LIs made sure that you know that they love your Hawke for who he/she is. Not what gender he/she has. And the little hear icons in the dialogue wheel made sure that there was no ninjamancing. So people who felt uncomfortable with s/s romance could avoid it, easily.

Or is it the knowledge enough that someone, somewhere wants to see a romance between FemShep and Ashley that bothers them so much? Clearly, falling in love with FemShep would turn THEIR beautiful Ashley into something vile and disgusting, right?

Again, romances will be optional. No one will be forced into anything. But every player should have the freedom to have the same choices everyone else does, thus turning a good game in a satisfying experience.

Too bad it doesn't work that way.
Judging by DA2 people were offended just as much as they thought it was no big deal.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Personally, the main way this would affect me personally is that it might complicate up my plans on one of my female Shepards. I had hoped to try to romance her the first time around with her but since I couldn't I moved on to other characters. I find it irritating that they'd only give me the option now when it doesn't make sense anymore rather than when I could have incorporated it into my character's story.

But beyond that, it's the principle of the thing. I don't think randomly changing her sexuality at the end of the trilogy does justice to her character. In fact I think it cheapens her if supposedly all that's important is that the broadest number of people get to romance her at the expense of the integrity of the character's developmen.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 16 juin 2011 - 05:54 .

[Liliandra Nadiar]

jbblue05 wrote...
You're going into "What if?" scenarios.  Its really convienent Ash is all of a sudden interested the same sex the exact time Bioware decides to install s/s romances. 
So Ash wearing a catsuit and getting huge boobs is "character growth"

Why weren't their s.s romances in ME2 than.  Bioware had more resources from EA..  They had unique s/s dialogue for characters like Thane and Miranda in hidden files.   Facts are same sex has been cut in both ME1 and 2.it has been suggested but never implemented until now.

If Ash is bi from the beginning, why doesn't she show interest in Femshep that sleeps with the consort, watches Asari strippers, or is interested in Liara.  Those are green lights that Femshep is interested in the same sex

To be fank, you're going into 'What if's as well.

"why doesn't she show interest in Femshep that sleeps with the consort" - Why doesn't anyone? No one anywhere makes a comment if either Shepard does this.

"watches Asari strippers" - How do you know she doesn't? We're never showed what anyone does on thier off time. LotSB is the only time we get any 'flavoring' for our squadmates about what they do when not with/around Shepard.

"or is interested in Liara." - "Hey Skipper, want me to ask about her sex life?" Maybe she's not into 'bookish' scientists. Or her early game distrust for aliens doesn't let her concider it.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I thought having a love interest while talking to the Consort will cause them to make a slightly jealous remark?

[jbblue05]

Liliandra Nadiar wrote...


To be fank, you're going into 'What if's as well.

That was my intent

"why doesn't she show interest in Femshep that sleeps with the consort" - Why doesn't anyone? No one anywhere makes a comment if either Shepard does this.

"watches Asari strippers" - How do you know she doesn't? We're never showed what anyone does on thier off time. LotSB is the only time we get any 'flavoring' for our squadmates about what they do when not with/around Shepard.

"or is interested in Liara." - "Hey Skipper, want me to ask about her sex life?" Maybe she's not into 'bookish' scientists. Or her early game distrust for aliens doesn't let her concider it.

You do know I'm talking about female Shep's interest not Ashley's right?

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Unless it's put off until well later in the game, I've never seen/heard one. I've always run the 'mission' prior to becoming a Specter, let alone talking to the LIs enough to get them to confess an interest.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I was almost sure I got one such comment once.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 16 juin 2011 - 06:13 .

[PMC65]

Now listen up sisters of Sappho, straight people know who can be bi/gay better than you .. stop fighting the truth. Their reasons are absolutely valid and you should use the following as your Lipman Test  when you are looking for a date ... Top 8 "why Ash would not love Femshep":

Bi women DO NOT:

1) Have sisters
2) Believe in God
3) Refrain from flashing their breasts or exchanging phone numbers within the first game week that they know you ... keyword: U-Haul
4) Serve in the military
5) Have children
6) Admire & respect men ... men are disgusting, even their grandfathers, fathers, brothers, nephews, etc
7) Read poetry ... Sappho?
8) EVER date men, sleep with men, kiss men ... this revokes their "girl" card

I'm sure there are more reasons but ....

Now having said that .. let's pretend this is a fantasy ... even a sci-fi world where you can make it with other species. Femshep herself can go with an asari, turian or drell but hooking up with a human female ... deal breaker and totally unbelievable ... like the drell isn't? Or the asari? Or the turian?

Despite this though, Ash and my femshep have had an unspoken attraction since they met on Eden Prime ... I sat poor confused Ash down to explain why she could not have these feelings for femshep, why she could not be  ... well, you know, gay/bi and here is what she said:

Everything about her
Was beautiful. . .
I was in love

My first time
To be in love
With a woman

Waking up everyday
Knowing I was going
To see her again...

She saw things in me
That I could never see
Very perceptive was she

Why won't she understand that my femshep and her can NEVER be together? Or why won't she stop reciting poetry? Straight people know who is and who isn't bi in the game, because they know these characters ... of course, they really don't know my Ashley or Shepard, but that is beside the point. Hard headed, stubborn, confused woman! I'll have to make her read this thread and maybe then she will understand.

(a portion of the poem "A Covered Rose" by D. L. Vaineo)

[Eternal Dust]

jbblue05 wrote...

You're going into "What if?" scenarios.  Its really convienent Ash is all of a sudden interested the same sex the exact time Bioware decides to install s/s romances. 
So Ash wearing a catsuit and getting huge boobs is "character growth"

What.

jbblue05 wrote...
Why weren't their s.s romances in ME2 than.  Bioware had more resources from EA..  They had unique s/s dialogue for characters like Thane and Miranda in hidden files.   Facts are same sex has been cut in both ME1 and 2.it has been suggested but never implemented until now.

There can be lots of reasons. One can even go into conspiracy theories. It doesn't matter. Fact is they're being implemented now because BioWare has made the decision to do so.

jbblue05 wrote...
If Ash is bi from the beginning, why doesn't she show interest in Femshep that sleeps with the consort, watches Asari strippers, or is interested in Liara.  Those are green lights that Femshep is interested in the same sex

Just because she could be bi from the beginning doesn't mean she would be interested in FemShep right away. Neither Garrus nor Jacob showed any interest in FemShep until the player initiated something and opened them up to the possibility. Being bi doesn't automatically mean you go jumping on every person you see. Honestly, your assumptions about bisexuality makes me wonder if you've ever met an actual bisexual person in your life.

[jbblue05]

octoberfire wrote...

What.

There can be lots of reasons. One can even go into conspiracy theories. It doesn't matter. Fact is they're being implemented now because BioWare has made the decision to do so.

That's obvious

Just because she could be bi from the beginning doesn't mean she would be interested in FemShep right away. Neither Garrus nor Jacob showed any interest in FemShep until the player initiated something and opened them up to the possibility. Being bi doesn't automatically mean you go jumping on every person you see. Honestly, your assumptions about bisexuality makes me wonder if you've ever met an actual bisexual person in your life.

The more What if scenarios posted, the more it seems s/s is added just so people cam fulfill their gay fantasies even if it alters a character.

Once again your making assumption about me percieving all bisexuals as the same.
FYI I had a friend who recently turned bi

[shepskisaac]

jbblue05 wrote...
FYI I had a friend who recently turned bi

I'll tell you a secret. He/she was bi all that time

[V-rex]

As it stands, I don't have a problem with the idea of Ashley becoming an love interest for FemShep. After all, Tali never showed any kind of interest in Shepard in Mass Effect 1 and she still ended up becoming a potential love interest in the second game. Yes, you can chalk it up to fan service but the point still stands.

Maybe as it turns out, Ashley never made a move on FemShep because FemShep never tried to put the moves on her? Remember most romantic dialogues have to be initiated by Shepard, hence maybe the failing was on FemShep for not leaping in, not Ashley.

If nothing else, there had clearly been a plan to make the VS character compatible with same sex relationships. So it's not like this is a totally 'out of the blue' realization. It would be a little bit strange for Ashley to be available to female shepard when she wasn't before, but it wouldn't bother me if they did that.
The option existing for some people won't change things for me. As long as Ashley is still the same ol' wise crackin', badass, poetry reading gal with attitude and a beautiful form... I can handle the idea that in some iterations of the game, she's gay.

THAT SAID... one thing I want to make VERY clear is that while I support the idea of Ashley being a lesbian option for FemSheps, I'll only accept it if said romance is an actual proper romance. With emotions, tension, build up and affection.
I do NOT want to see it end up with Ashley being sexed up in her catsuit getting on with another woman for the sake of basic titilation. It has to feel like a real, genuine romance... not just an excuse for girl on girl.

[78stonewobble]

What I find the most morally problematic in this whole ordeal is not that there are gay, bi, straight, nudity, violence in an adult game.

I still think that the somewhat arbitrary ability to change a persons sexuality (people have good but subjective arguments for and against) is kinda "disgusting".

Changing someone from straight to a bi- or ******-sexual is no different than the opposite. The ability to change bi- or homosexual's into straights.

Heck we've got people out there in the real world right now that refuses to accept that people just are whatever they are and forcibly tries to change this (in one ridiculous way or the other). Why bring such an ugly part of todays society into a game in a way?

People can change (or in my interpretation: learn to know themselves fully) but for that to be a part of a character it should be an integral part to the characters development and not something just slapped on to appease a certain part of society.

Thats said... I fully support same sex romances in games in general.

I am however divided on the "best" implementation of this in an existing set universe like ME.


An addition and slightly as an example on what I meant.

Ashley was straight in ME1 (cut content or not she was like that gamewise). Sure she can become bi or even gay in ME3 but then make it some good character development. It should be part of HER story ingame in the conversations.

Not like some some switch were switched on and off and we don't know why.

Basically I would like it to be logical and well made change from bioware's side than one broad ugly stroke of change.

Or the alternative as I've mentioned elsewhere. One canon story/universe/characters and ingame editing of all squadmates, loveinterests and major characters.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 16 juin 2011 - 11:37 .

[Puzzlewell]

PMC65 wrote...

*snip*

Can I hug you? I swear the most ridiculous (and hilarious) reason I've heard so far why Ashley can't be bisexual is because she has sisters. WTF? I'm a pansexual woman, my only sibling is my older sister. Guess I'm doing it wrong then. D:

[Rune-Chan]

After having seen the modded PC dialogue with Femshep and Ash I think she does seem quite fitting as a bisexual character, I do not think all characters suit it though, and I hope they don't make all the previous romances bisexual for Mass Effect 3.

Kaidan, Tali and Ashley I can see it. Garrus, Thane, Jacob, Miranda I cannot.

Tali because of her dialogue about missing Shepard and the whole 'linking suits' conversation.
Kaidan because every time my Male Shepard spoke to him aboard the Normandy I swear they made eyes at each other.
Ash for the reasons I gave above.

I am veering off topic so: Yes, Ashley should be a love interest for a femshep in ME3, hell I wouldn't mind a patch to allow her to be one in ME1/2 either.

jbblue05 wrote...


FYI I had a friend who recently turned bi../../../images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png

People do not "turn" Bi, they realise that they are.

Modifié par Machines Are Us, 16 juin 2011 - 01:37 .

[Raanz]

PMC65 wrote...

Now listen up sisters of Sappho, straight people know who can be bi/gay better than you .. stop fighting the truth.

I quit reading your post after this.....oh enlightened one.

[Rune-Chan]

Raanz wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

Now listen up sisters of Sappho, straight people know who can be bi/gay better than you .. stop fighting the truth.

I quit reading your post after this.....oh enlightened one.

It was quite obviously a joke post mocking all the straight people who think they know more about gay and bisexual people...

Modifié par Machines Are Us, 16 juin 2011 - 04:19 .

[PMC65]

CalamityRanger wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

*snip*

Can I hug you? I swear the most ridiculous (and hilarious) reason I've heard so far why Ashley can't be bisexual is because she has sisters. WTF? I'm a pansexual woman, my only sibling is my older sister. Guess I'm doing it wrong then. D:

I like hugs!

[ADLegend21]

jbblue05 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...


She never hits on any male Characters either! (Male Shep not withstanding) Kaidan's cute to her younger sister but when aske dif she has eyes for the Lieutenant she says no. Also James is cute, but bisexuals are attracted to both genders. My arguements pretty solid, you're just making grabs at outlandish logic. Ash being "altered" is called Character growth, they do grow over timeotherwise there's not point in advancing the story if no one grows from the beginning. Hell for all I know Ash is a nun in PT's where I'm not romancing her or just plain avoiding her except for combat situations. in Me1 She was intended to be bisexual so Bioware WOULD be making her how they inteded from ME1  since you know they ahd to cut S.Sstuff due to time contstraights and they delayed it to make sure there was no such occurence this time around.

You're going into "What if?" scenarios.  Its really convienent Ash is all of a sudden interested the same sex the exact time Bioware decides to install s/s romances. 
So Ash wearing a catsuit and getting huge boobs is "character growth"

Why weren't their s.s romances in ME2 than.  Bioware had more resources from EA..  They had unique s/s dialogue for characters like Thane and Miranda in hidden files.   Facts are same sex has been cut in both ME1 and 2.it has been suggested but never implemented until now.

If Ash is bi from the beginning, why doesn't she show interest in Femshep that sleeps with the consort, watches Asari strippers, or is interested in Liara.  Those are green lights that Femshep is interested in the same sex

You brought up the what ifs buddy. Not me.

You've seen a few pictures and part of a demo, so you know ALL of Ashley's character in ME3 way to go. Bioware ADDED S/S dialogue for Femsheps who romanced the Male LI's (Jack, Tali, and Miranda) to LoTSB because they knew people were modding for S/S so they threw them a bone and had Hale record the dialogue Meer had for Liara asking if shepard is fighting for the ME2 LI's. Devs have come and said they fully intende dot have S/S in all teh game but time constraints prevented it so they're making sure it gets into ME3 as part of the delay to 2012 instead of fall 2011. Hmm let's see If a femshep is watching Asari strippers, having sex withteh asari consort and is interested in Liara, Ash would think sheps' into asari so why bother trying to get her into humans if she has an Asari fetish?