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[phimseto]

And just to elaborate on what others have written above, I do think there's a huge disconnect between veteran Bioware gamers and the studio's philosophy today.  We are passionate about it, and while I've come across extremely angry rants about it, our rants tend to be well-written and readible.  To be completely blunt, I don't think the whole Hepler episode would ever have happened with the veteran crowd. I view that as a classic example of Bioware courting a certain crowd of gamer and getting bitten in the ass by it. 

I actually got into a conversation about this on the Baldur's Gate forum, and what I wrote there seems to be apropos here as we lament Kelly's probable consignment to priority change oblivion:

When I play an RPG, the gameplay/combat is the least interesting element of the game. 

I don't think I'm alone. I have a poll on what people's favorite ME2 loyalty missions were. The top choice was Tali's, and the runner-ups were Samara's and Kasumi's. All three are significant because their most notable elements are the extensive non-combat sequences which drive them. 

When I read her comments, I could see how she and I could disagree on implementation of such views, but fundamentally I agreed with her - the more story and interaction and plot depth you can give me, the happier I am. The more I am reading about what didn't make into ME3 - either abandoned or cut - the more upset I get, because BW's insistence on pushing MP in and attracting a different fan base seems to be undercutting the fanbase that made ME such a success to begin with.

That's why I think and hope we are on the cusp of a new wave of gaming types - these AAA titles that somewhat blend into sameness to justify the ridiculous development costs and smaller titles that are cheaper to produce but offer more varied and deeper gameplay. It's no surprise that the first three big Kickstarter initiatives (announced or pending) to attract money and excitement are from Double Fine, Brian Fargo, and Obsidian. People know what they are missing in today's games, and they want to create a market where they can get those lost experiences again.

And it's for that reason that I don't think Baldur's Gate is dead in the form we would like to see it.  If these other initiatives prove successful - particularly if Obsidian's game is a Planescape Torment follow-up - then you might get Wizards of the Coast looking at the potential for revisiting the title.  

Modifié par phimseto, 02 mars 2012 - 03:28 .

[The Enforcer OS]

I didn't even know about the Hepler thing until recently when it hit other gaming sites. I didn't know the origin, but the backlash sounded juvenile.

I'd love to know how BioWare has pared out feedback amidst all the crap they take. Obviously they listen to some things... and with this being the last game in Shepard's Trilogy, I'd love to know if they have intention to rectify any glaring omissions through DLC

[draken-heart]

hey, i think the fact that they said Kelly was not a true romance in ME2 was due to the fact that Kelly, if romanced, wanted an Open relationship (sleep with who you want and the other person won't mind it). what do you all think?

Modifié par draken-heart, 02 mars 2012 - 05:39 .

[The Enforcer OS]

draken-heart wrote...

hey, i think the fact that they said Kelly was not a true romance in ME2 was due to the fact that Kelly, if romanced, wanted an Open relationship (sleep with who you want and the other person won't mind it). what do you all think?

This fine since it wasn't a dedicated one, but the talk speculation that she isn't in there or no interest whatsoever (if that were true, not saying it is) would be a punch in the gut to those who didn't get any kind of resolution. 

[phimseto]

draken-heart wrote...

hey, i think the fact that they said Kelly was not a true romance in ME2 was due to the fact that Kelly, if romanced, wanted an Open relationship (sleep with who you want and the other person won't mind it). what do you all think?

Yeah, that's true, but since then, the word had gone out that Kelly would be a LI in ME3 only to have that rug yanked out from under interested parties over the week or so.  Again, the frustration is that if you go through the trouble of romancing (and rescuing) Kelly, you have an investment in the character that gets totally thrown away.  For the final game of the trilogy, I don't want new LIs thrown my way, I want a chance to explore my investment on old ones.   

[The Enforcer OS]

If other rumblings I hear are true, I don't think I can be upset w/ Bioware for her not being full fledged LI, as I've stated before as long as there is resolution as to why or why not.

If the only evidence previously has been the leaked script, then it technically wasn't official, just like a host of other things that people found in game data. It's not technically 'official' until its accessible in game.

That said, doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see it happen.

[phimseto]

The Enforcer OS wrote...

If other rumblings I hear are true, I don't think I can be upset w/ Bioware for her not being full fledged LI, as I've stated before as long as there is resolution as to why or why not.
 

If it has anything to do with her Cerberus affiliation, I have issues with that, too, because ME2 leaves it pretty concretely that you've gone off on your own no matter how pro-Cerberus you might be.  One of the things driving me crazy is that I somehow have a mystery new crew when I a. would have kept my old crew and b. would certainly have made sure they were protected from reprisals from either the Illusive Man or anyone else.  That they're seemingly scattered to the four winds at the start of ME3 bugs me already, on top of everything else.  

[The Enforcer OS]

Well if history is repeating itself there is likely a time game between ME2 & 3 like with 1 & 2.

Even if Shepard is anti-Cerberus or pro-Cerberus, the same might not be said of his pro-Cerberus crew. They likely need a time gap to explain Shepard magically becoming Alliance favored again which would also explain the crew replacement... The only people we know that are typically loyal to Shepard are Squadmates, Joker, Chakwas and Anderson, etc.

Kelly & Gardner (can't think of any other non-squad Cerberus ops) for that matter may still be pro Cerberus. I seriously hope no one screamed for Gardner as LI, XD lol

[sheppard7]

The Enforcer OS wrote...

Well if history is repeating itself there is likely a time game between ME2 & 3 like with 1 & 2.

Even if Shepard is anti-Cerberus or pro-Cerberus, the same might not be said of his pro-Cerberus crew. They likely need a time gap to explain Shepard magically becoming Alliance favored again which would also explain the crew replacement... The only people we know that are typically loyal to Shepard are Squadmates, Joker, Chakwas and Anderson, etc.

Kelly & Gardner (can't think of any other non-squad Cerberus ops) for that matter may still be pro Cerberus. I seriously hope no one screamed for Gardner as LI, XD lol

Hey, Gardner washes his hands....  most of the time. lol

[The Enforcer OS]

sheppard7 wrote...

Hey, Gardner washes his hands....  most of the time. lol

LoL, I had conveniently forgotten that fact.  Gardner for "Krogan Boot Scrapings" XD

[gearseffect]

phimseto wrote...

The Enforcer OS wrote...

If other rumblings I hear are true, I don't think I can be upset w/ Bioware for her not being full fledged LI, as I've stated before as long as there is resolution as to why or why not.
 

If it has anything to do with her Cerberus affiliation, I have issues with that, too, because ME2 leaves it pretty concretely that you've gone off on your own no matter how pro-Cerberus you might be.  One of the things driving me crazy is that I somehow have a mystery new crew when I a. would have kept my old crew and b. would certainly have made sure they were protected from reprisals from either the Illusive Man or anyone else.  That they're seemingly scattered to the four winds at the start of ME3 bugs me already, on top of everything else.  

Iagree with ya Phimseto, on many of your posts. It bugs me that my ME2 crew is thrown out to the wolves, I made sure I rescued Kelly and all my Crew, and I'd dang sure be willing to keep them on and safe from TIM and Cerberus, and While I'm at it, I don't want new LI's, when old flames are being thrown to thw wolves, Samara and Kelly are the big ones for me.

Every part of MP takes space that could have been used for these characters, every part of Combat mode too.

Also this is not going off the leaked scripts this is going off people who have played the game already, and gotten it early, and as much as I hated theleaked scripts those scirpts seem like the lesser of 2 evils, compaired to the finale game.

[Captain McBuck]

Aw Man, so no Kelly? :/ My FemShep is going to be so ****y to her replacement for this.

[Kalralahr]

From the Same sex romance discussion thread:

Chouan wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Checked
Kelly's dialogues, the other LIs don't seem to be mentioned any longer.
However, a dialogue in which you can tell Kelly that you "still have
her" is still there. So unless it's unused, you can continue romance
with Kelly.

Fantastic, thank you for that bit of info [smilie]../../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie] Is the fade-to-black lovescene in the game (the one from the leaked script)?

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/325/index/7625505/891#9588661

IsaacShep wrote...

Chouan wrote...

Fantastic, thank you for that bit of info [smilie]../../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie] Is the fade-to-black lovescene in the game (the one from the leaked script)?

That scene still seems to be there. But I don't know if it's actually used.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/325/index/7625505/891#95887

Seem to match what was in the leak. Of course it's not proof that she's still in the game but I'd be surprised if she wasn't given how we know is in the game i.e Ken and Gabby for instance.

[Drone223]

^Is it the November one?

[phimseto]

Kalralahr wrote...

From the Same sex romance discussion thread:

Chouan wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Checked
Kelly's dialogues, the other LIs don't seem to be mentioned any longer.
However, a dialogue in which you can tell Kelly that you "still have
her" is still there. So unless it's unused, you can continue romance
with Kelly.

Fantastic, thank you for that bit of info [smilie]../../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie] Is the fade-to-black lovescene in the game (the one from the leaked script)?

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/325/index/7625505/891#9588661

IsaacShep wrote...

Chouan wrote...

Fantastic, thank you for that bit of info [smilie]../../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie] Is the fade-to-black lovescene in the game (the one from the leaked script)?

That scene still seems to be there. But I don't know if it's actually used.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/325/index/7625505/891#95887

Seem to match what was in the leak. Of course it's not proof that she's still in the game but I'd be surprised if she wasn't given how we know is in the game i.e Ken and Gabby for instance.

Gotta admit...I'm pretty tired and cannot parse this. What does this all add up to? Am i happy or sad?

[Kalralahr]

It's confirming that there are dialogue files for Kelly in the game and that they resemble what was in the leaked script. It would seem to be a good thing.

[The Enforcer OS]

I doubt the script would reflect as such, but wishful thinking suggests Kelly replace the new comms op! lol

[Captain McBuck]

Traynor: Commander, its a real honour to serve on the Normandy.
Shep: I'm sorry, Who are you?
Traynor: Specialist Samantha Traynor, I'm your new Yeoman.
Shep: Wheres Kelly?
Traynor: Who?
Shep: Yeoman Kelly Chambers *eyes Traynor suspiciously*
Traynor: Ah, Miss Chambers has been reasigned.
Shep: *Eyes narrow in anger* why wasn't I consulted about this?
Traynor: *shifts nervously* Admiral Hackett beieved her skills could be better suited elsewhere..and given her former affilations with Cerberus....
Shep: Right. *Shep brushes past her with a grunt muttering under her breath*
Traynor *sighs* That could have gone better

[Drone223]

Captain McBuck wrote...

Traynor: Commander, its a real honour to serve on the Normandy.
Shep: I'm sorry, Who are you?
Traynor: Specialist Samantha Traynor, I'm your new Yeoman.
Shep: Wheres Kelly?
Traynor: Who?
Shep: Yeoman Kelly Chambers *eyes Traynor suspiciously*
Traynor: Ah, Miss Chambers has been reasigned.
Shep: *Eyes narrow in anger* why wasn't I consulted about this?
Traynor: *shifts nervously* Admiral Hackett beieved her skills could be better suited elsewhere..and given her former affilations with Cerberus....
Shep: Right. *Shep brushes past her with a grunt muttering under her breath*
Traynor *sighs* That could have gone better

The old leaks says she's on the Citadel, so look for her there 

[Captain McBuck]

Drone223 wrote...

Captain McBuck wrote...

Traynor: Commander, its a real honour to serve on the Normandy.
Shep: I'm sorry, Who are you?
Traynor: Specialist Samantha Traynor, I'm your new Yeoman.
Shep: Wheres Kelly?
Traynor: Who?
Shep: Yeoman Kelly Chambers *eyes Traynor suspiciously*
Traynor: Ah, Miss Chambers has been reasigned.
Shep: *Eyes narrow in anger* why wasn't I consulted about this?
Traynor: *shifts nervously* Admiral Hackett beieved her skills could be better suited elsewhere..and given her former affilations with Cerberus....
Shep: Right. *Shep brushes past her with a grunt muttering under her breath*
Traynor *sighs* That could have gone better

The old leaks says she's on the Citadel, so look for her there 

I heard, but one of the things about ME2 was that my FemShep actually came to care about the crew, Kelly,  Kenneth, Gabby, even Gardener and Hawthorn, she had a crew, one she cared about and trusted, they went through hell together and back, it was why she tore hell and went through the Omega 4 Relay so quickly was "to get her people back"and now the Alliance has torn most of them out and reassigned them across the galaxy? My Shepard at least will not be happy about this, not one bit and will almost certainly resent some of the people the alliance has installed in place of the people she wanted.

[phimseto]

Any updates?

[The Enforcer OS]

phimseto wrote...

Any updates?

25.25 Hrs until game is in hands, so that + hours to locate, otherwise not as of yet.

[WoJo2307]

haven't seen Kelly even after 3. mission

[The Enforcer OS]

WoJo2307 wrote...

haven't seen Kelly even after 3. mission

Panic Button!!11!!  She must not be in the game! 

LoL, sorry, kidding. 

Worst case scenarios >> Cameo

Best case scenario >> Probably more than a cameo

[FROST4584]

I saw Kelly for the first time. She looked great. She looked the same at the same time very different. I imported my Ashley romance first. I am going to import, my single (male) Shep -> "romance" only Kelly playthrough next, or even before I finish my first playthrough.