483 réponses à ce sujet

[InvincibleHero]

@Siansonea

There were mass executions of POWs when it was inconvenient to take them into custody. Not every accused war criminal was taken alive either. However probably best not to delve more into that.

Yes you could if you could tie the mob mook to the murder. All they would have to do was proven to be present at the time and its a done deal.

Again no her confession would have more value since relatively few individuals actually make one without having done the crime. If you can't accept even that then there is no reasoning with you. many possible reasons that are valid have been provided yet you try to handwave them away.

You keep trying to say it is wrong no matter what. Are we going to see a trail for Shiala in ME3? Highly unlikely. Her only "punishment" is her word to stay and help them rebuild. She can leave at any time and what is Shepard going to hunt her down? Nope. Has he mentioned to anyone crimes Shiala might be culpable to any authorities? If so it wasn't shown. So letting her go is just that no consequences.

Conspiring with Saren is enough. She kills the merc even after getting info despite no crime being comitted before her. Did you even listen to the asari "cop" explain what they do. Samara herself says if code calls for death that is it. She does not bring them in. Did she try to bring Morinth her own daughter in? Nope. Justicars will kill for what to humans seem insignificant crimes.

You just don't get it. Samara basically vowed to kill you and she has no mercy whatsoever. Yeah can't trust Morinth too much either but guess what as a fugitive she has less power and standing than Samara. It isn't even close. Samara can get C-sec and asari warships after Shepard and what can Morinth do? That's right nothing but try to kill him herself.

You can't have it both ways saying Shepard murders Shiala yet saying you can't blame Samara for killing innocent civilians. Either both are murder or not. Except I don't believe Shiala is 100% innocent while those poor villagers were duped and had not a chance. Samara is certainly not good. As I said IRL I would take my chances with Samara. If she promised to kill me then I might think about throwing my lot in with Morinth. Some chance is better than no chance.

My point is both are not good. Both have motivations we don't know about. You have to trust either one at their word. Both do the job taking you to the end of the game with no messy situations.

[Siansonea]

InvincibleHero wrote...

@Siansonea

There were mass executions of POWs when it was inconvenient to take them into custody. Not every accused war criminal was taken alive either. However probably best not to delve more into that.

Yes you could if you could tie the mob mook to the murder. All they would have to do was proven to be present at the time and its a done deal.

Again no her confession would have more value since relatively few individuals actually make one without having done the crime. If you can't accept even that then there is no reasoning with you. many possible reasons that are valid have been provided yet you try to handwave them away.

You keep trying to say it is wrong no matter what. Are we going to see a trail for Shiala in ME3? Highly unlikely. Her only "punishment" is her word to stay and help them rebuild. She can leave at any time and what is Shepard going to hunt her down? Nope. Has he mentioned to anyone crimes Shiala might be culpable to any authorities? If so it wasn't shown. So letting her go is just that no consequences.

Conspiring with Saren is enough. She kills the merc even after getting info despite no crime being comitted before her. Did you even listen to the asari "cop" explain what they do. Samara herself says if code calls for death that is it. She does not bring them in. Did she try to bring Morinth her own daughter in? Nope. Justicars will kill for what to humans seem insignificant crimes.

You just don't get it. Samara basically vowed to kill you and she has no mercy whatsoever. Yeah can't trust Morinth too much either but guess what as a fugitive she has less power and standing than Samara. It isn't even close. Samara can get C-sec and asari warships after Shepard and what can Morinth do? That's right nothing but try to kill him herself.

You can't have it both ways saying Shepard murders Shiala yet saying you can't blame Samara for killing innocent civilians. Either both are murder or not. Except I don't believe Shiala is 100% innocent while those poor villagers were duped and had not a chance. Samara is certainly not good. As I said IRL I would take my chances with Samara. If she promised to kill me then I might think about throwing my lot in with Morinth. Some chance is better than no chance.

My point is both are not good. Both have motivations we don't know about. You have to trust either one at their word. Both do the job taking you to the end of the game with no messy situations.

This is just nonsense. Stream-of-consciousness nonsense. Faulkner's estate could sue. And you're not even talking in circles, you're talking in figure-eights. You're just so afraid of being wrong that you'll just throw out anything. Invincible hero mon oeil. <_<

And you should probably bone up on law before taking the law into your own hands in real life, because you are under some really dangerous misapprehensions. You'd kill Shiala because "she says she's guilty of something or other and who would say there guilty of something or other if they werent I mean no one would do that would they no of course not". You'd let Morinth live because Samara's hasslin' you and she's old. You'd kill Samara because "she said she'd kill me if witnessed me doing something horrible". So don't do anything horrible. How about THAT solution?

Say, Samara, I have this footage of Shepard killing an unarmed asari on Feros. Yes, see, in this sequence she's mentally downloading vital intel into Shepard's brain. Yeah, it helped him stop Saren, he couldn't have done it without her help. Oh, and see how she's kneeling in front of Shepard? See Shepard just blow her away with that douchey look on his face? Yeah, that was my reaction too. What's that? You're out of thermal clips? Here Samara, take one of mine. In fact, take two, they're small. And might I suggest Reave?

And since when is it Shepard's job to dispense some sort of douchebag cowboy justice anyhow? His job is to stop Saren, not kill every remorseful asari he meets who gives him valuable intel before kneeling before his penis gun. Killing her is just the typical young male's idea of "badasss", which is really just another word for "jackass". The option was included so those emotionally stunted individuals could get their game jollies, and for no other reason.

[ubermensch007]

InvincibleHero, No offense meant but, I think what your saying here is kind of nuts!

By your logic, I suppose Shepard should kill Jack, for her pass misdeeds.

I suppose Shepard should have killed Dr.Okeer, for the atrocoties he committed.

And let's not leave out that shady s-it Liara did to Sekat on Illium.She's no Spectre so isn't what she did tantamount to murder in cold blood.T'Soni even confesses to Shepard that she has no remorse about it and she would do it again!

I think someone else said something like,"When the hell did Commander Shepard become Judge Dredd?!

And if Shiala is a big fat liar, like you seem to suspect.Than how do you explain the fact that after next to everyone thought Shepard was dead.For the last two years: She still is helping out the Feros colony; instead of making a run for it...

Modifié par ubermensch007, 15 juillet 2011 - 05:30 .

[PMC65]

Siansonea II wrote...

Say, Samara, I have this footage of Shepard killing an unarmed asari on Feros. Yes, see, in this sequence she's mentally downloading vital intel into Shepard's brain. Yeah, it helped him stop Saren, he couldn't have done it without her help. Oh, and see how she's kneeling in front of Shepard? See Shepard just blow her away with that douchey look on his face? Yeah, that was my reaction too. What's that? You're out of thermal clips? Here Samara, take one of mine. In fact, take two, they're small. And might I suggest Reave?

And since when is it Shepard's job to dispense some sort of douchebag cowboy justice anyhow? His job is to stop Saren, not kill every remorseful asari he meets who gives him valuable intel before kneeling before his penis gun. Killing her is just the typical young male's idea of "badasss", which is really just another word for "jackass". The option was included so those emotionally stunted individuals could get their game jollies, and for no other reason.

OK, not getting into the middle of the discussion, but that was funny.

I killed her once because I didn't trust her. I honestly thought that she would fight Shepard like the rachni queen ... Well, the queen got pissed but thank goobledy there was glass between her & Shepard. When Shiala got on her knees and Shepard just shot her in the back of the head ... That is the most brutal thing that I have witnessed in the game.

Everyone with Shepard should have been pissed because that was cold-blooded and merciless. It is the only time in a game that I did not save it because I would have forever HATED that Shepard. Now, if she comes back to bite my Shepard in the butt than I am afraid that she will bite him/her everytime. Because if someone would kneel down before me and leave their fate in my hands like she did, not a chance in hell would I harm that person.

Brutal. And no honor in this killing.


http://t1.gstatic.co...YiEASFBvHM&t=1 

[ubermensch007]

I have never killed Shiala and I could not bring myself to do it.Even when I wanted to see if Lisbeth would show up on Illium instead. And I must say that I really don't even like hearing you all who did go into detail about how you did!

And dude...Did you really have to show that picture of her on her knees like that?!

Geez...

[ubermensch007]

ubermensch007 wrote...

I have never killed Shiala and I could not bring myself to do it.Even when I wanted to see if Lisbeth would show up on Illium instead. And I must say that I really don't even like hearing you all who did go into detail about how you did!

And dude...Did you really have to show that picture of her on her knees like that?!

Geez...

P.S. But your post is good and the picture does bring across your message of how wrong killing her is.

(Edit) I have no idea how this became a double post?!

Modifié par ubermensch007, 16 juillet 2011 - 06:29 .

[JustValiant]

 @Invinciblehero

I think it's weird that you always use the term "culpability" but you lack seeing the right meaning of this juridical term.
The only thing Benezia and Shiala are personally culpabale of is underestimating Saren - and that only from a moral point of view. Culpability is the awareness and insight that you do something unlawful at the moment of the act. You cannot blame Benezia for the attempt to stop Saren - and that was her higher and final goal - because we don't know anything about the competences an asari matriarch has - she was no mere civilian.
If you bring Batman in - the closest and fairest comparison in this matter is the fear gas in Batman Begins in relation to the indoctrination. If you were under the influence of this fear gas and your girlfriend would come to give you a hug and you would shoot her, because you saw her as some giant monster beast trying to kill you - you would not be culpable - believe it or not!

Think of Arrival: Assuming there would have been a chance of survival for Dr. Amanda Kenson and she could have been cured from the influence of indoctrination, do you think she would have been charged for attempted murder of Cmdr. Shepard??

Slowly I get the impression that killing Shiala was just an exaggerated and suboptimal attempt of Bioware to offer and demonstrate a wide palette of possible and drastic decisions. It smply doesn't fit. By shooting Shiala Shepard is making Shiala a victim for the third time. The first was Saren and the second the Thorian... 

[Agamo45]

I killed Shiala. She was one of Saren's followers and she is partly responsible for the misery of the Feros colonists. I don't give a damn if she was indoctrinated, at some point she chose to join up with Saren. Someone had to pay in blood for what happened at Feros.

[MisterJB]

Agamo45 wrote...
 Someone had to pay in blood for what happened at Feros.

The Thorian? Or maybw Saren?

Modifié par MisterJB, 16 juillet 2011 - 12:10 .

[Agamo45]

Shiala was a willing tool of Saren and then the Thorian. She is just as guilty as them.

[JustValiant]

Agamo45 wrote...

Shiala was a willing tool of Saren and then the Thorian. She is just as guilty as them.

Lol, oh sure, and surely she thought: I want to rule the galaxy and become empress beside this awesome Saren guy!


Note: This was irony!<_<

[Siansonea]

Agamo45 wrote...

I killed Shiala. She was one of Saren's
followers and she is partly responsible for the misery of the Feros
colonists. I don't give a damn if she was indoctrinated, at some point
she chose to join up with Saren. Someone had to pay in blood for what
happened at Feros.

Agamo45 wrote...

Shiala was a willing tool of Saren and then the Thorian. She is just as guilty as them.

Look at you, bein' all hard and stone cold. <_<

I'm sure if I pump enough drugs in YOU, you'd be a willing tool yourself. Shiala was under mind control, she wasn't herself. Once she WAS herself, she was horrified by what had happened. She and Benezia never set out to cause anyone harm, they actually were trying to PREVENT harm. But due to forces beyond their control, their free will was compromised by Sovereign. For Shiala, Sovereign's control was usurped by the Thorian, and its death freed her from both influences. So killing Shiala for actions she committed under the Thorian's control is just as wrong as killing the Zhu's Hope colonists, especially since NO ONE SEEMS TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT SHIALA DID THAT WAS SO BAD. But you go on with your bad self, Stone Cold, you shoot dat asari if it makes you feel good. But don't expect the rest of us to think that you're somehow heroic by doing so. Or even "badasss". There's nothing badass about shooting a kneeling woman in the head, and if you think there is, I hope you never actually get the opportunity to handle a real firearm.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 16 juillet 2011 - 05:38 .

[Trakarg]

Agamo45 wrote...

Shiala was a willing tool of Saren and then the Thorian. She is just as guilty as them.

Yeah, definitely.  I mean, being indoctrinated totally means you're a willing participant.  <_<

[InvincibleHero]

@Yezdigerd

Nope the colonists never willingly consorted with a criminal they were 100% innocent bystanders as I stated previously.

You don't know what she did prior to being given to the thorian which apparently she did at Benezia's request of her own volition. She could have been party to kidnaps and murders or other crimes while with Saren to keep up the ruse.

Oh you know the reason given by whom Benezia. She is a guilty party and anything she says would be suspect. Do you have any exonerating evidence there. Nope.

As opposed to freeing someone with no consequence with no real evidence either. Shepard's observations, her direct confession, and his powers as a spectre gave him the right to do so.

Metagaming is irrelevant. Enough rleased murderers found faith behind bars and work the rest of their life towards some sort of redemption. It does not negate what they did.

Shiala had no deathwish. Her first actions were to cooperate and talk you out of killing her. She would profess nothing if she wanted to die other than I'm guilty please kill me.

Yeah well just because that's one line doesn't make it the whole reason. It is true however to show she will do what it takes to live including lying. LOL. You also forget the mind meld had info we were not privy. That Shepard still thought she deserved to die is enough for me.

My renegade Shepards never killed any colonists and that is all I can say about that. If someone else chooses to let them justify it.

Modifié par InvincibleHero, 16 juillet 2011 - 10:20 .

[Yezdigerd]

InvincibleHero wrote...Nope the colonists never willingly consorted with a criminal they were 100% innocent bystanders as I stated previously.

Yet part of the reason you cite for killing her is cooperation with the thorian which the colonists also are guilty of.

Oh you know the reason given by whom Benezia. She is a guilty party and anything she says would be suspect. Do you have any exonerating evidence there. Nope.

Really check the mass effect wiki or any source, that Benezia intentions were good-natured is canon and not up for debate. Moreover the game doesn't allow you to disbelieve Benezia, your renegade Shepard will urge her to fight of indoctrination and treat her with sympathy for her suffering no matter what you do. (I find this a weakness in the game because the game gives very little reason for you to suddenly believe Benezia.)
They made much the same decision as Shepard himself in ME2 with Cerberus,
although Benezia's people never intended to cooperate with the
terrorists over mutual goals.
You can argue that you killed Shiala out of in game ignorance but it doesn't change the fact that you were wrong to do so.

Metagaming is irrelevant. Enough rleased murderers found faith behind bars and work the rest of their life towards some sort of redemption. It does not negate what they did.

You miss the point. You were talking about her having to be punished for breaking the law. Yet do not specify which laws, and in end apparently no authority human, asari or citadel find sufficent reason to try Shiala for unspecifed crimes. presumable because there are no reason,to do so much like no specific crime is presented in the game.

Shiala had no deathwish. Her first actions were to cooperate and talk you out of killing her. She would profess nothing if she wanted to die other than I'm guilty please kill me.

Whatever dude, your Shepard obviously have telepatic ability.

That Shepard still thought she deserved to die is enough for me.

So in other words if the game gives Shepard the option to put kittens on fire it's enough for you.

[JustValiant]

InvincibleHero wrote...

You don't know what she did prior to being given to the thorian which apparently she did at Benezia's request of her own volition. She could have been party to kidnaps and murders or other crimes while with Saren to keep up the ruse.

Oh you know the reason given by whom Benezia. She is a guilty party and anything she says would be suspect. Do you have any exonerating evidence there. Nope.

As opposed to freeing someone with no consequence with no real evidence either. Shepard's observations, her direct confession, and his powers as a spectre gave him the right to do so.

.

A strange logic indeed, you for yourself have no proof that she committed any crimes prior to her indoctrination either. At the time she was given to the Thorian she was already under the influence of Sovereign, so she just had to follow Saren's command without any chance of resistance. if you hypnotize a man and order him to kill someone else you really would dare to blame him for that act? If so - I really hope for you that you won't meet a judge with your conviction - should something similar happen to you.

For the rest of your arguments I have nothing else to add than that in my post above.<_<

[whywhywhywhy]

InvincibleHero wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

Wow you and dean are on the wrong side of this argument.  Addressing the in-game aspect as a renegade Sheperd I think it's all about the order in which you do things.  If I did feros first I don't know that I'd be convinced about Shiala's argument of mind control her odds of death are higher.  After noveria because of Benezia's actions I'd start to believe that indoctrination was true, because honestly for who she was an the role in which she served the Asari people it doesn't fit.  After Noveria the encounter with Shiala becomes much harder to justify if you intend to kill her, it would mean everyone in me3 who becomes indoctrinated and commits crimes must die by Sheperd's rule.  Once you learn that indoctrination is real, most likely real then her death becomes murder.  You can't be charged with it but morally that's what it is.

From a moral standpoint let's say I had powers of mind control and this is unknown to you and Dean, the both of you renegades are coming to hunt me down to answer for my crimes only to become my unwilling pawns.  If you were to be prosecuted for crimes I compelled you to commit you'd be guilty until it was proven my mind control powers were real.  You'd then have proof and could plead insanity/temporary insanity in a court of law.

InvincibleHero wrote...
No she had full control and allied with Saren

Prove this.  I see it this is where your going astray.  Shiala followed Matriarch Benizia to assist her with her mission.  Benizia'a mission was one of peace she wanted to convince Saren his actions were wrong.  Your labeling this intent for good as intent to ally, your entire argument falls apart because of this.  You have to prove that Shiala in full control (complete free will) and Beniza choose to ally with Saren, show me where in the storyline this occurred.

InvincibleHero wrote...
whom she knew to do bad things. Indoctrination is after.

We do know for a fact that reaper ships emit a indoctrination signal.  If Sovereign was serving as Saren's flagship indoctrination occurred when or soon after they met him.  You act as if Benizia and her followers contacted Saren with a pro-reaper agenda, until you can prove that your argument falls apart.

InvincibleHero wrote...
If she did not join Benezia and Saren guess what she is not in that position.

The fallacy you present is a false dilema as if the only two correct choices exists when in fact many more exist.  You've also misrepresented the situation, Beniza was never with Saren as a ally.  Not until she became indoctrinated and even then she fought against it to help Sheperd.  Without her help, we can't say if the location of the mu relay would have been found.  Without the cipher we can't say the location of the conduit wouldn't have been found so quickily.  So how are they allies if they are helping Saren's enemies ?

InvincibleHero wrote...
There are plenty of examples of asari being evil and lying in the game. It is a judgement callperiod.  Thereis circumstatial evidence on both sides.

I've highlighted the very concept in my intial post and I stand by what I said execution of Shiala after encountering Beniza first is poor judgement, murder.

InvincibleHero wrote...
 We did not willing join your criminal empire to try and change you into a better person as Benezia claimed.

Nor did Beniza join willingly while trying to arrest Saren.  You question her motives that's fine if you think that but how can you possible establish that her motives weren't genuine.  If she truly intended to "join" Saren then she would have known about indoctrination, she woud ahve brought as many asari as she could rather then asking them if they wanted to come.  She wouldn't have stored a portion of her sanity and used it to give Sheperd the osd that saved the galaxy.

InvincibleHero wrote...
I think it needs to be mentioned it could have been a total fabrication. Just because someone tells you something it should not = instant exoneration. LOL. It is a highly unbelievable story and I think paragon Shepard gullible for falling for it. Yet I did it 5 out of 6 times. I really did feel bad for having to execute her only once as punishment for crimes lacking any other alternative other than to let her go scot free.

  If the Beniza's mission had no intent to join with and support Saren how could her followers have intentions on joining Saren ?  Why would they need Beniza instead of leaving to search out Saren for themselves ?

InvincibleHero wrote...
Is it murder to kill merc mooks that have yet to fire on you? I'd say you could call it that. How about civilian cerberus scientists like in ME1?

  Depends on the situation if those mercs are sitting in a bar drinking, absolutely.  If they are armed guards hired to protect some illegal venture then No.  And as far as the scientist(Corporal Tombs) yes it is murder that's why I didn't let him do it, I did it.  As a spectre I'd been given legal authority to do so and given the 48 lives they were responsible for and harm they inflicted on Tombs I felt the punishment justified the crime.

InvincibleHero wrote...
Not really. Proving mind control exists would not be enough. The thorian would almost be required to say yep "I controlled her and made her do that." Well being dead aliens tell no tales suffice to say cannot go in court and help her. It'd be like saying I was under control of x drug so I'm not responsible when you have no blood tests to back it up. Anyone can make claims you need proof.

I might have little proof but you have even less, just because you make a judgment doesn't means justice has been served.  And that's the only and driving point of your argument. 

Here's mine:

Shiala was indoctrinated after being released from the thorian something obvious was done to her mind by the thorian.  She was given the Cipher and transferred it to Sheperd (proven by sheperds ability to understand protean) so we know that the thorian has the ability to manipulate minds.  Futher proof of this is it's spores.  So we know that Shiala was indoctrinated and when she's released she's not.  The only varible between being indoctrinated and being freed from it was the Thorian, ergo the Thorian's mind manipulation freed Shiala from indoctrination.

We can make a reasonable and educated guess that if Shiala was still indoctrinated then she never would have given Sheperd the Cipher, causing him to fail finding the Conduit in time.  FF to the destruction of the galaxy ?

The evidence:
Indoctrination is real.
Thorian was real.
Thorian could manipulate minds.
The memories of the Thorian was given to Shiala(cipher).
Shiala Gave those memories to Sheperd.

That isn't the action of a indoctrinated person.

If she was lying for freedom noone knew who she was she easily could have said "I came here loking for Beniza and Saren stuffed me into the Thorian."  Why admit working with him ? What does that gain her ? 

Now, where's your proof ?

edited: changed sheperd typo to saren

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 18 juillet 2011 - 07:45 .

[Siansonea]

I'm so glad I don't have to point out all the giant holes in IH's "logic". The Fail Is Strong With This One.

[Ruud333]

Siansonea II wrote...

His job is to stop Saren, not kill every remorseful asari he meets who gives him valuable intel before kneeling before his penis gun. Killing her is just the typical young male's idea of "badasss", which is really just another word for "jackass". The option was included so those emotionally stunted individuals could get their game jollies, and for no other reason.

A couple of things:

1.  I'm detecting a slight under-current of 'man-hate' in your post (though I could be wrong).  I think you can make your point about this without resorting to stereotyping/insulting the people that made this choice (you've hurt my typical young male feelings ).  Plus unless there is a poll on gender and age regarding this choice in the game, I don't see how you can back this up.

2.  As you say, it is an option.  You didn't have to choose it or agree with it in your playthrough.  EDIT:  And whilst you don't have to agree with somebody's reasoning for making the choice to kill Shiala, do you really have criticise it?

Personally I usually choose to save her, though on my renegade playthrough...well let sjust say she wasn't in ME2

Modifié par Ruud333, 16 juillet 2011 - 06:18 .

[Aligalipe]

She's the hottest asari i' ve ever seen so far.

[Ruud333]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

After Noveria the encounter with Shiala becomes much harder to justify if you intend to kill her,

I see what you mean, but having seen how hard it was for Benezia to (unsuccessfully) resist indoctrination, I think the counter point to that would be that killing Shiala is the safer option in case she has a 'relapse'?

[BatmanPWNS]

If she is romanced then it will probably be something like a one night stand.

[whywhywhywhy]

Ruud333 wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

After Noveria the encounter with Shiala becomes much harder to justify if you intend to kill her,

I see what you mean, but having seen how hard it was for Benezia to (unsuccessfully) resist indoctrination, I think the counter point to that would be that killing Shiala is the safer option in case she has a 'relapse'?

Relapse ?  Oh cause of Beniza ?  I would say the difference is Beniza tried saving herself and Shiala was saved by the Thorian.  Beniza didn't relapse she compartmentalized her mind to keep a part of it locked away while awaiting to the chance to strike a blow.  She used that part of her mind to reassert herself to become dominate the indoctrination was still there it wasn't gone. (refer to paul grayson's exp in the book for better understanding)  She couldn't maintain this dominance and the controllers of this Indoctrination reasserted itself. 

The difference is Shiala didn't do anything the Thorian's mind control/melding or sharing overwrote the indoctrination it isn't present in her.    The indoctrination process hasn't been shown to be a dormant process so it's a reasonable to believe it would be active all the time if present. The two mental forces fighting for control of her mind would cause her to lose her sanity, at the very least the struggle would be visible.

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 16 juillet 2011 - 08:53 .

[Ruud333]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

Relapse ?  Oh cause of Beniza ?  I would say the difference is Beniza tried saving herself and Shiala was saved by the Thorian.  Beniza didn't relapse she compartmentalized her mind to keep a part of it locked away while awaiting to the chance to strike a blow.  She used that part of her mind to reassert herself to become dominate the indoctrination was still there it wasn't gone. (refer to paul grayson's exp in the book for better understanding)  She couldn't maintain this dominance and the controllers of this Indoctrination reasserted itself. 

The difference is Shiala didn't do anything the Thorian's mind control/melding or sharing overwrote the indoctrination it isn't present in her.    The indoctrination process hasn't been shown to be a dormant process so it's a reasonable to believe it would be active all the time if present. The two mental forces fighting for control of her mind would cause her to lose her sanity, at the very least the struggle would be visible.

Good points - after reading the above I can see how they would be different situations.

That said, I just watched a clip of the execution on youtube, and tbh all Shep really has to go on is her word that she is on his side, reformed etc.  Personally I think it would be really naive and a bit unrealistic just to let her go after a few minutes of conversation with someone you have just met.  There should have been a 'take her into custody option' I guess.

[Siansonea]

Ruud333 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

His job is to stop Saren, not kill every remorseful asari he meets who gives him valuable intel before kneeling before his penis gun. Killing her is just the typical young male's idea of "badasss", which is really just another word for "jackass". The option was included so those emotionally stunted individuals could get their game jollies, and for no other reason.

A couple of things:

1.  I'm detecting a slight under-current of 'man-hate' in your post (though I could be wrong).  I think you can make your point about this without resorting to stereotyping/insulting the people that made this choice (you've hurt my typical young male feelings ).  Plus unless there is a poll on gender and age regarding this choice in the game, I don't see how you can back this up.

2.  As you say, it is an option.  You didn't have to choose it or agree with it in your playthrough.  EDIT:  And whilst you don't have to agree with somebody's reasoning for making the choice to kill Shiala, do you really have criticise it?

Personally I usually choose to save her, though on my renegade playthrough...well let sjust say she wasn't in ME2

My Renegade Soldier killed Shiala too, even though my other five Shepards let her live. It's one thing to say "yeah, killing Shiala is douchey as hell, but one of my Shepard's did it anyway", and quite another to say that killing Shiala is somehow a responsible, appropriate choice.