483 réponses à ce sujet

[General User]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Playing "Space Gestapo" was one of the highlights of ME1.

I thought most people preferred Space Jesus?


"You are forgiven of all your sins."

"Thanks, Commander Space Jesus! I'm actually a sympathetic character who won't stray from the good and narrow any time soon!"

"I grant you mercy: go in Peace."

"I will never Sin again, Commander Space Jesus!"

Hilarious.

I'm saving a copy of this.

[Dean_the_Young]

Han Shot First wrote...

When loyalty leads you towards willing complicity in crime, you are guilty of said crime. When willing complicity in one crime results in even unintended expansion into other crimes, you are just as guilty of those crimes as well.

This is, like, hundreds if not thousands of years of law and ethics here. Following someone you like or respect isn't a pass or a pardon in illegal actions. Short of religious law, it never has been.

Benezia and the Asari commandos accompanying her weren't willingly complicit in any crimes. Benezia went to Saren to get him to stand down, not to join him. They only became complicit in his crimes after they were indoctrinated and no longer had free will.

See, though, this is where western common law disagrees with you: if you even participate in a smaller crime that goes out of hand, you are also complicit in the consequences of the greater crime... even if you didn't intend to. This is why all the bank robbers involved, for example, can be charged with murder... even if only one of them shot a gun, and only because of an accident. When you deliberatly step into a criminal enterprise (what Benezia and her followers were doing, because mitigating it was their entire purpose of joining Saren), you become culpable for everything that occurs... whether you intended it or not.

[JustValiant]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

When loyalty leads you towards willing complicity in crime, you are guilty of said crime. When willing complicity in one crime results in even unintended expansion into other crimes, you are just as guilty of those crimes as well.

This is, like, hundreds if not thousands of years of law and ethics here. Following someone you like or respect isn't a pass or a pardon in illegal actions. Short of religious law, it never has been.

Benezia and the Asari commandos accompanying her weren't willingly complicit in any crimes. Benezia went to Saren to get him to stand down, not to join him. They only became complicit in his crimes after they were indoctrinated and no longer had free will.

See, though, this is where western common law disagrees with you: if you even participate in a smaller crime that goes out of hand, you are also complicit in the consequences of the greater crime... even if you didn't intend to. This is why all the bank robbers involved, for example, can be charged with murder... even if only one of them shot a gun, and only because of an accident. When you deliberatly step into a criminal enterprise (what Benezia and her followers were doing, because mitigating it was their entire purpose of joining Saren), you become culpable for everything that occurs... whether you intended it or not.

All right, if you bring up legal issues of western law (which is inappropriate imho since we are talking about galactic races) you do have to do it adequately. Maybe you can blame Benezia for negligence, because she rushed in this mission without having the proper intel about Saren's true background but you can not seriously claim she did this with a criminal intent of gaining power, ruling the galaxy or something like that.

You cannot presume she eventually approved Sovereign's invasion or the attack on Feros, because this was totally unforseeable for her. Maybe she clinged too long to the hope of redirecting Saren's path, until it was too late to escape the indoctrination.

You are right about the culpability of someone's actions after joining a criminal organisation as long as they are adequately predictable and the joining person shares the same intent. Benezia tried to stop Saren's the only way she could do - the asari way of diplomacy. 
Eventually you blame the unindoctrinated Benezia and Shiala for taking steps against Saren which the entire council space - except Shepard - didn't. 

[somejah]

I've only played ME2, should I know who she is? :x

[FrozenShadow]

somejah wrote...

I've only played ME2, should I know who she is? :x

No, not really. Shiala would only affect to one assigment on Illium, if you let her survive in ME1. That's all.

So, you haven't really lost anything.

Modifié par Newart, 28 juin 2011 - 12:27 .

[WorpeX]

Newart wrote...

somejah wrote...

I've only played ME2, should I know who she is? :x

No, not really. Shiala would only affect to one assigment on Illium, if you let her survive in ME1. That's all.

So, you haven't really lost anything.

And I should mention that the Assignment is still in the game, but instead of Shiala giving you the quest, its someone else. Don't remember who cause I only care about Shiala. /uploads_user/1070000/1069890/32080.gif

Modifié par WorpeX, 28 juin 2011 - 12:40 .

[mauro2222]

Nerevar-as wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

I like when people try to justify killing or a murder xD

The things some people rationalize scare me a lot. I understand playing as a psycho, but doing that thinking your character is right?

Haha, dont worry it scares me too xD walking down the street thinking that the person who is in front of me feels that way. Potential murderer

Modifié par mauro2222, 28 juin 2011 - 01:52 .

[mauro2222]

StarMarine wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

When loyalty leads you towards willing complicity in crime, you are guilty of said crime. When willing complicity in one crime results in even unintended expansion into other crimes, you are just as guilty of those crimes as well.

This is, like, hundreds if not thousands of years of law and ethics here. Following someone you like or respect isn't a pass or a pardon in illegal actions. Short of religious law, it never has been.

Benezia and the Asari commandos accompanying her weren't willingly complicit in any crimes. Benezia went to Saren to get him to stand down, not to join him. They only became complicit in his crimes after they were indoctrinated and no longer had free will.

See, though, this is where western common law disagrees with you: if you even participate in a smaller crime that goes out of hand, you are also complicit in the consequences of the greater crime... even if you didn't intend to. This is why all the bank robbers involved, for example, can be charged with murder... even if only one of them shot a gun, and only because of an accident. When you deliberatly step into a criminal enterprise (what Benezia and her followers were doing, because mitigating it was their entire purpose of joining Saren), you become culpable for everything that occurs... whether you intended it or not.

All right, if you bring up legal issues of western law (which is inappropriate imho since we are talking about galactic races) you do have to do it adequately. Maybe you can blame Benezia for negligence, because she rushed in this mission without having the proper intel about Saren's true background but you can not seriously claim she did this with a criminal intent of gaining power, ruling the galaxy or something like that.

You cannot presume she eventually approved Sovereign's invasion or the attack on Feros, because this was totally unforseeable for her. Maybe she clinged too long to the hope of redirecting Saren's path, until it was too late to escape the indoctrination.

You are right about the culpability of someone's actions after joining a criminal organisation as long as they are adequately predictable and the joining person shares the same intent. Benezia tried to stop Saren's the only way she could do - the asari way of diplomacy. 
Eventually you blame the unindoctrinated Benezia and Shiala for taking steps against Saren which the entire council space - except Shepard - didn't. 

Ahhh... If it only were true. We would have a lovely world. Even the church and all the catholic people would be in jail xD Even the muslim people, the hinduist people, every christian people. I mean, considering all the murder that religion has done across the time

[ubermensch007]

I was checking out Gamer Rant the other day and I saw this article that says that "Mass Effect 3 Will Have No New Romantic Relationships, Just Consequences"  here's the link: gamerant.com/mass-effect-3-relationships-consequences-johnj-84604/#comments after reading this article this is what i wrote...

What?!

what?

WHAT?!

This is the first I’m hearing of this! After playing Mass Effect 2, I was really looking forward to the option of becoming romantically involed with the Asari: Shiala of Feros.  I like her- I like her alot...She
has a different perspective and world view, what with formely being a supporter of Matriach Benezia.In a way, Shiala is one of the most ( for a lack of a better term ) ‘down to earth’ characters in the game.
She’s not involved in the Reaper Cold War, she’s a social worker of sorts: A good soul trying to make amends for past errors in judgement.Oh and she’s green and sexy 

In a way though, I’m not all that surprised that BioWare has done this.There smart folks and I suspected as much for ME3. For in the first two games, you only got to start a romantic relationship, whereas ME3, is all about actually being in a relationship.Which involes: time management, attention, affection and activities together…I personally felt that the best ‘Prior to the Suicide Mission Cutscene’ was the ‘Longing for your 1st Love’ ( ME1 Love Interest)

Modifié par ubermensch007, 29 juin 2011 - 07:59 .

[WorpeX]

Err...BioWare has confirmed that their WILL be new romances (even mentioned a gay one) and they did say that not all of them are a main character. I have no idea where this gamerant article came from, but i'm going to call bogus on it.

[ladyvader]

WorpeX wrote...

Newart wrote...

somejah wrote...

I've only played ME2, should I know who she is? :x

No, not really. Shiala would only affect to one assigment on Illium, if you let her survive in ME1. That's all.

So, you haven't really lost anything.

And I should mention that the Assignment is still in the game, but instead of Shiala giving you the quest, its someone else. Don't remember who cause I only care about Shiala. /uploads_user/1070000/1069890/32080.gif

If you saved the colony, but killed Shilia, you get Lizbeth the Exo-Geni chick that shot at you, if the colonly didn't make it you get a random survivor.

[daigakuinsei]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

When loyalty leads you towards willing complicity in crime, you are guilty of said crime. When willing complicity in one crime results in even unintended expansion into other crimes, you are just as guilty of those crimes as well.

This is, like, hundreds if not thousands of years of law and ethics here. Following someone you like or respect isn't a pass or a pardon in illegal actions. Short of religious law, it never has been.

Benezia and the Asari commandos accompanying her weren't willingly complicit in any crimes. Benezia went to Saren to get him to stand down, not to join him. They only became complicit in his crimes after they were indoctrinated and no longer had free will.

See, though, this is where western common law disagrees with you: if you even participate in a smaller crime that goes out of hand, you are also complicit in the consequences of the greater crime... even if you didn't intend to. This is why all the bank robbers involved, for example, can be charged with murder... even if only one of them shot a gun, and only because of an accident. When you deliberatly step into a criminal enterprise (what Benezia and her followers were doing, because mitigating it was their entire purpose of joining Saren), you become culpable for everything that occurs... whether you intended it or not.

As a law student, it's important to note that the felony murder rule is not applicable in all jurisdictions.  Also, you're mistaking felony murder for accomplice liability.  They are two separate issues.

[jamesp81]

Han Shot First wrote...

The only crime Shiala was guilty of was the 'crime' of loyalty to her Matriarch and the 'crime' of underestimating Saren. They saw him as the primary threat rather than simply a puppet being used by the Reapers, and had no understanding of indoctrination.

Pretty much this.  The worst thing Shiala can be solidly accused of is making a mistake about the capabilities of her opponent.

[jamesp81]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

When loyalty leads you towards willing complicity in crime, you are guilty of said crime. When willing complicity in one crime results in even unintended expansion into other crimes, you are just as guilty of those crimes as well.

This is, like, hundreds if not thousands of years of law and ethics here. Following someone you like or respect isn't a pass or a pardon in illegal actions. Short of religious law, it never has been.

Benezia and the Asari commandos accompanying her weren't willingly complicit in any crimes. Benezia went to Saren to get him to stand down, not to join him. They only became complicit in his crimes after they were indoctrinated and no longer had free will.

See, though, this is where western common law disagrees with you: if you even participate in a smaller crime that goes out of hand, you are also complicit in the consequences of the greater crime... even if you didn't intend to. This is why all the bank robbers involved, for example, can be charged with murder... even if only one of them shot a gun, and only because of an accident. When you deliberatly step into a criminal enterprise (what Benezia and her followers were doing, because mitigating it was their entire purpose of joining Saren), you become culpable for everything that occurs... whether you intended it or not.

The commandos were forced against their will by outside influence to do things.  Assuming such a technology was real and existed, it would constitute a pretty damned solid defense in court.

[jamesp81]

StarMarine wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

When loyalty leads you towards willing complicity in crime, you are guilty of said crime. When willing complicity in one crime results in even unintended expansion into other crimes, you are just as guilty of those crimes as well.

This is, like, hundreds if not thousands of years of law and ethics here. Following someone you like or respect isn't a pass or a pardon in illegal actions. Short of religious law, it never has been.

Benezia and the Asari commandos accompanying her weren't willingly complicit in any crimes. Benezia went to Saren to get him to stand down, not to join him. They only became complicit in his crimes after they were indoctrinated and no longer had free will.

See, though, this is where western common law disagrees with you: if you even participate in a smaller crime that goes out of hand, you are also complicit in the consequences of the greater crime... even if you didn't intend to. This is why all the bank robbers involved, for example, can be charged with murder... even if only one of them shot a gun, and only because of an accident. When you deliberatly step into a criminal enterprise (what Benezia and her followers were doing, because mitigating it was their entire purpose of joining Saren), you become culpable for everything that occurs... whether you intended it or not.

All right, if you bring up legal issues of western law (which is inappropriate imho since we are talking about galactic races) you do have to do it adequately. Maybe you can blame Benezia for negligence, because she rushed in this mission without having the proper intel about Saren's true background but you can not seriously claim she did this with a criminal intent of gaining power, ruling the galaxy or something like that.

You cannot presume she eventually approved Sovereign's invasion or the attack on Feros, because this was totally unforseeable for her. Maybe she clinged too long to the hope of redirecting Saren's path, until it was too late to escape the indoctrination.

You are right about the culpability of someone's actions after joining a criminal organisation as long as they are adequately predictable and the joining person shares the same intent. Benezia tried to stop Saren's the only way she could do - the asari way of diplomacy. 
Eventually you blame the unindoctrinated Benezia and Shiala for taking steps against Saren which the entire council space - except Shepard - didn't. 

I think what might needs to be said here is that a Matriarch, in conjunction with her followers, were essentially running a military operation against Saren and Sovereign.  It doesn't look like that to us, since their method was to guide him away from his brutal tactics.  This is likely an artifact of Asari lifespan.  As humans, we see a badguy and don't see any choice but to imprison him to keep him from doing more damage.  For a long lived race, however, the pressure to move quickly isn't as great.

Also, keep in mind, Asari commandos are not the cops, or a group of well meaning civilians.  They are soldiers, serving in the Asari armed forces.  This implies an entirely different code of laws would apply.  In human terms, the commandos would've been governed by something like the Uniform Code of Military Justice (US military law).  Seeing that this was essentially a military operation, the possibility of failure exists and is understood to be a possible outcome by the leaders putting on such an operation.

Now, it looks to us like a somewhat rogue operation, but it really isn't.  The Codex mentions that the Asari military is organized into what we might call "tribal warrior bands".

In any case, I thought I'd put this out there.  All of this wrangling about legal concept and tradition is likely moot anyway, as civil law really doesn't apply here.  Benezia and her troops were running a military operation against an acknowledged enemy.  In the course of that operation, Sovereign subverted their minds and the operation failed.  I do not see that a failed operation justifies executing one of the survivors.  Well, unless we're drawing on legal traditions from some of the worst totalitarian states in human history, but I'd like to think people don't subscribe to such ideas anymore.

Modifié par jamesp81, 29 juin 2011 - 09:20 .

[InvincibleHero]

Siansonea II wrote...

Shooting Shiala is simply wrong. If you think she needs to "pay for her crimes" or whatever, arrest her. Hand her over to the Exogeni people until the Alliance can pick her up and take her into custody. Or hand her over to the Zhu's Hope colonists. Yes, keeping an asari commando in custody could be tricky, but it's not impossible. But killing her out of hand? Pure douchebag macho BS. She surrendered. Killing surrendering prisoners is pretty much wrong. Especially after they just gave you a valuable piece of intel that you may need to have verified by a third party. Someone like your own asari Prothean expert. Heck, Shepard could have put Shiala in the "brig" on the Normandy, and took her to the Citadel to have the Council decide her fate. But in no case should she have been killed simply for being indoctrinated.

Exactly how should executions be carried out? They don't give prisoners sentenced to die a gun and say hey shoot your way out. Nope they are unarmed and completely unable to do anything about it.

Granted killing Shiala was meant to make the player feel dirty. I think it was a valid choice given the supposed time crunch and Shepard given powers to execute someone as a spectre. All you have to support anything is the word of the accused and maybe some circumstantial scraps to go on. Of course a defendant in a capital case would never lie to save themselves perish the thought. The thorian is gone so no exonerating evidence there.
The facts many colonists died and she was complicit in it by self-admission.

[ubermensch007]

WorpeX wrote...

Err...BioWare has confirmed that their WILL be new romances (even mentioned a gay one) and they did say that not all of them are a main character. I have no idea where this gamerant article came from, but i'm going to call bogus on it.

I hope your right about that  because I was kind of bummed out by that article in a way

I think for me the " You had me at hello." moment that i had with Shiala is in Mass Effect 2, after I successfully assisted her with helping the colonist of Feros... Our conversation :

" Is it always like this? Yesterday's problems, lingering in some new form? Isn't anything ever just fixed? ( Conversation Wheel Choice : "Only with death" )  " Would you rather that all the colonist were dead? That would make it simpler..."

" And you could have gunned down the slaves, that the Thorian sent against you ! That would have been easier... But you took the 'harder path' and so will I... Thank you for what you've done here Shepard, I'll keep doing what I can... Maybe sometime when I'm not organizing the Colony and your not -- doing -- whatever you do -- " 

Her words surprised me and were encouraging. She reminded me of my own goodness and higher values in a way that no other character in game has. And I liked the way that she didn't back down at all.There was an edge to my reply ( I got 2 Renegade Points ) and her response. If you look closely you can even see her frown a bit when she says,
" And you"  to Shepard -- I liked that And the smile that Shepard and Shiala shared ( is one I was wearing as well )  as they were about to part ways for the time being felt like the kind of knowing and intimate understanding that two people have with one another who have a shared expierence. This was a moment were an NPC in ME 2 really distinguished herself from the rest to me... She made me feel as though I was no longer on the outside looking in.There was no wall betwixt us.If you saw Casino Royale starring Daniel Craig, you might know what I'm talking about... After his first encounter with Eva Green's character, after there witty banter had ended, he looks at her as she leaves and he smiles.
He probably wouldn't admit it to himself at the time; but he already knew then, that he was smitten by her:wub: How could he not be: she was charming, beautiful, intelligent and clever.
I know the feeling... and in that moment there was a sense of ' Things to come' With Shiala I felt like she may not always just be an NPC... that she might becoming something more and i like the sound of that...

Modifié par ubermensch007, 30 juin 2011 - 07:55 .

[Xeranx]

It's funny how the most underused characters show the most potential, right? So much work done on a character that will be on screen for a few minutes and they hit their marks. Makes me wonder if the writers think that with characters that have more exposure on screen they have time to flesh them out.

[Siansonea]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Shooting Shiala is simply wrong. If you think she needs to "pay for her crimes" or whatever, arrest her. Hand her over to the Exogeni people until the Alliance can pick her up and take her into custody. Or hand her over to the Zhu's Hope colonists. Yes, keeping an asari commando in custody could be tricky, but it's not impossible. But killing her out of hand? Pure douchebag macho BS. She surrendered. Killing surrendering prisoners is pretty much wrong. Especially after they just gave you a valuable piece of intel that you may need to have verified by a third party. Someone like your own asari Prothean expert. Heck, Shepard could have put Shiala in the "brig" on the Normandy, and took her to the Citadel to have the Council decide her fate. But in no case should she have been killed simply for being indoctrinated.

Exactly how should executions be carried out? They don't give prisoners sentenced to die a gun and say hey shoot your way out. Nope they are unarmed and completely unable to do anything about it.

Granted killing Shiala was meant to make the player feel dirty. I think it was a valid choice given the supposed time crunch and Shepard given powers to execute someone as a spectre. All you have to support anything is the word of the accused and maybe some circumstantial scraps to go on. Of course a defendant in a capital case would never lie to save themselves perish the thought. The thorian is gone so no exonerating evidence there.
The facts many colonists died and she was complicit in it by self-admission.

Well, let's all applaud Cowboy Justice. Yee freakin' haw. <_<

Seriously, killing Shiala is one of those douchebag cliché badasssss!!! moments in the game that only teenage boys could possibly relate to. Anyone with a shred of maturity realizes that killing Shiala accomplishes nothing, and letting her live at least creates the possibility of some kind of atonement on her part. Killing her is just arbitrary retribution. After all, Shepard just had a mind-meld with Shiala, Shepard knows Shiala better than anyone he/she's ever met up to that point (with the possible exception of Liara if she's been recruited already). If Shiala represented a danger to anyone, why would Shepard allow her to "embrace eternity" with him/her? And since when is dispensing "justice" part of Shepard's mandate anyway? Shepard's job is to accomplish a mission, not go around playing Dirty Harry. <_<

[InvincibleHero]

Siansonea II wrote...
Well, let's all applaud Cowboy Justice. Yee freakin' haw. <_<

Seriously, killing Shiala is one of those douchebag cliché badasssss!!! moments in the game that only teenage boys could possibly relate to. Anyone with a shred of maturity realizes that killing Shiala accomplishes nothing, and letting her live at least creates the possibility of some kind of atonement on her part. Killing her is just arbitrary retribution. After all, Shepard just had a mind-meld with Shiala, Shepard knows Shiala better than anyone he/she's ever met up to that point (with the possible exception of Liara if she's been recruited already). If Shiala represented a danger to anyone, why would Shepard allow her to "embrace eternity" with him/her? And since when is dispensing "justice" part of Shepard's mandate anyway? Shepard's job is to accomplish a mission, not go around playing Dirty Harry. <_<

Does kililng cerberus scientist 100 or merc 5000 accomplish anything? Not really yet you constantly kill mercs and cerb techs through out 1 and 2 (no cerb).

Let's talk about the meld. Yes Shepard saw in her mind and executing her was still on the table. We are not privvy to any information Shepard saw so have to assume incriminating evidence was found. After all renegade is supposed to mean mission-focuses and not evil especially in ME1. They strayed a bit more in 2 but that's another discussion.

Easy as it was the only way to get the cipher he needed. The risk is acceptable in the face of game over Saren wins.  Is it part of Shepard's job to free wanted criminals? Nope yet you likely do it anyway with Fist and others. It is naive to think this life-long criminal is going to repent and be good from now on. Meh BW makes it pay off and that isn't the natural order of things where most criminals continue their ways.

possible atonement OK let's release all the people on death row and forgive and release every criminal just because they say they want to atone and it is possible they are telling the truth. Hey get them to sign on it which is stronger than just a verbal commitment. Yeah.

[billywaffles]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
Well, let's all applaud Cowboy Justice. Yee freakin' haw. <_<

Seriously, killing Shiala is one of those douchebag cliché badasssss!!! moments in the game that only teenage boys could possibly relate to. Anyone with a shred of maturity realizes that killing Shiala accomplishes nothing, and letting her live at least creates the possibility of some kind of atonement on her part. Killing her is just arbitrary retribution. After all, Shepard just had a mind-meld with Shiala, Shepard knows Shiala better than anyone he/she's ever met up to that point (with the possible exception of Liara if she's been recruited already). If Shiala represented a danger to anyone, why would Shepard allow her to "embrace eternity" with him/her? And since when is dispensing "justice" part of Shepard's mandate anyway? Shepard's job is to accomplish a mission, not go around playing Dirty Harry. <_<

Does kililng cerberus scientist 100 or merc 5000 accomplish anything? Not really yet you constantly kill mercs and cerb techs through out 1 and 2 (no cerb).

Let's talk about the meld. Yes Shepard saw in her mind and executing her was still on the table. We are not privvy to any information Shepard saw so have to assume incriminating evidence was found. After all renegade is supposed to mean mission-focuses and not evil especially in ME1. They strayed a bit more in 2 but that's another discussion.

Easy as it was the only way to get the cipher he needed. The risk is acceptable in the face of game over Saren wins.  Is it part of Shepard's job to free wanted criminals? Nope yet you likely do it anyway with Fist and others. It is naive to think this life-long criminal is going to repent and be good from now on. Meh BW makes it pay off and that isn't the natural order of things where most criminals continue their ways.

possible atonement OK let's release all the people on death row and forgive and release every criminal just because they say they want to atone and it is possible they are telling the truth. Hey get them to sign on it which is stronger than just a verbal commitment. Yeah.

You don't get it, i'm afraid. Shepard has no reason to kill Shiala, other than deliberaly want to murder her. The option of killing shiala is not necessary a "renegade" option, is just a "murder" option. She didn't f**k you on purpose, she helped you greatly instead.

The  colonist, for example, although they were controlled by the thorian, they were violent at you (specially that security woman who distrust you), even if you helped them against the geth. Being HOSTILE at you, Shepard here actually had A REASON to screw the grenades and kill everybody because while unwillingly, they have f*****d you a lot.

tl;dr: Killing shiala is like killing dr.chakwas because you feel like it (if you actually had the option to kill chakwas in any way for no reason at all).

Modifié par billywaffles, 02 juillet 2011 - 12:04 .

[JustValiant]

Siansonea II wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Shooting Shiala is simply wrong. If you think she needs to "pay for her crimes" or whatever, arrest her. Hand her over to the Exogeni people until the Alliance can pick her up and take her into custody. Or hand her over to the Zhu's Hope colonists. Yes, keeping an asari commando in custody could be tricky, but it's not impossible. But killing her out of hand? Pure douchebag macho BS. She surrendered. Killing surrendering prisoners is pretty much wrong. Especially after they just gave you a valuable piece of intel that you may need to have verified by a third party. Someone like your own asari Prothean expert. Heck, Shepard could have put Shiala in the "brig" on the Normandy, and took her to the Citadel to have the Council decide her fate. But in no case should she have been killed simply for being indoctrinated.

Exactly how should executions be carried out? They don't give prisoners sentenced to die a gun and say hey shoot your way out. Nope they are unarmed and completely unable to do anything about it.

Granted killing Shiala was meant to make the player feel dirty. I think it was a valid choice given the supposed time crunch and Shepard given powers to execute someone as a spectre. All you have to support anything is the word of the accused and maybe some circumstantial scraps to go on. Of course a defendant in a capital case would never lie to save themselves perish the thought. The thorian is gone so no exonerating evidence there.
The facts many colonists died and she was complicit in it by self-admission.

Well, let's all applaud Cowboy Justice. Yee freakin' haw. <_<

Seriously, killing Shiala is one of those douchebag cliché badasssss!!! moments in the game that only teenage boys could possibly relate to. Anyone with a shred of maturity realizes that killing Shiala accomplishes nothing, and letting her live at least creates the possibility of some kind of atonement on her part. Killing her is just arbitrary retribution. After all, Shepard just had a mind-meld with Shiala, Shepard knows Shiala better than anyone he/she's ever met up to that point (with the possible exception of Liara if she's been recruited already). If Shiala represented a danger to anyone, why would Shepard allow her to "embrace eternity" with him/her? And since when is dispensing "justice" part of Shepard's mandate anyway? Shepard's job is to accomplish a mission, not go around playing Dirty Harry. <_<

I agree with you in most parts - but since the melding is a process not "designed" for human brains, I doubt that Shepard got any benefit from it in knowing Shiala. The other way areound seems a lot more probable, and if Shiala "embraced" a paragon Shep, this could be the reason why she feels attracted to him, because she saw his "noble" soul. But in the end we know too little about the melding to presume either theories for sure. 

[Yezdigerd]

One of the rare poor part of mass effect is the implemention of renegade, instead of cynical and ruthless, most renegade options are stupid and evil.
Shiala takes the price though, it goes beyond douchbaggery into comedy. It's the lowest point of renegade plot in the entire series. It's equally nonsensical, unfair and stupid.

Recap: Benezia gets tabs of Saren's alliance with the reapers, she launches and operation to infiltrate and subvert Saren from this path. in the process she and her followers become victims of reaper mindcontrol. Benezias plan might have been misguided but, her motivation was saving the galaxy combating the reapers, she and her followers are consequently heroines.
Shiala is one of Benezias acolytes that serve her mistress in this plan, but like her becomes a victim of mindcontrol. and later sacrified to the thorian for some different flavour of mindrape.

As soon as she regain her free will she makes every effort to aid Shepard without any reservations, expressing remorse over unspecified evil acts she been forced to committ against her will. She even ask for the opportunity to atone for this even though she seems to have been abused more then most.

So what do Shepard do after mindmeld and everything (where Shiala would have ample opportunity to harm him)? Out of nowhere he pulls a gun says he canno't let her live, why?
"because she changed sides too often" I literally laughed myself breathless first time I saw this.
It's like.. I dunno,  chiding a victim of gangrape for promiscuity?

Granted Shepard might not have been to Noveria yet if so, he has little reason to believe in that part of the story(shepard doesn't get the option of disbelieving Benezia's explanation even though it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility if he did). then again he has no information to the contrary either. but the thorian part is readible apparent with the colonists exogeni reports etc, if Shep choose to disbelieve this then in all fairness I assume he set up a concentration camp where all the colonists and exogeni employees got plugged as well.
assuming anyone survived renegade Sheps civilian killing spree to get to the thorian.

In any case killing Shiala for being a turncoat is just funny.

Killing Shiala for the greater principle of justice seems more paragon the renegade, I guess renshep could have done it as a deterrant for evildoers but executing Saren's discarded mooks deters what? No matter if you have second thoughts about Saren's plans the best you can hope for is summary execution if you try to switch side?

and finally the kicker: Shiala carries the prothean cipher, and unlike Shepard she can impart it to other individuals, what if Shepard heaven forbids comes to a violent end?

oooo... didn't think about that...

it's hardly surprising Bioware didn't give renegades a named replacement for Shiala. if you can kill her you can kill any pixel for any or no reason. any rp element is just meaningless.

[Goneaviking]

I like Shiala and hope she's in the third Mass Effect. I'd expect her to be a relatively minor character based on her previous appearances, but as others have noted the cypher is a potentially very interesting device and it would give her an ability to interact with and interpret any surviving Prothean artifacts. I hope it doesn't lead to a Prothean superweapon, that would seem to me like selling the Citadel races (and other pertinant races) short by denying them agency over their own survival.

Her flirtation with Shepherd in ME2 does leave open the possibility of a romantic subplot with the character if the game developers are interested in such a story. I'd be open for that in a play through, but I won't self-terminate if it doesn't eventuate.

I'll go further and hope that she features prominently in any theoretical spin-off in the Mass Effect universe. A different, and less epic, storyline would allow minor popular characters a chance to shine. In fact, I'd prefer that to recycling major characters and especially companions into further franchise pieces.

Something I found interesting about her character was the way she looked at my character during their interactions in ME1, the way her face was composed it seemed like she was viewing me with distaste or discomfort. Which seemed appropriate given the circumstances, after having been indoctrinated by Sovereign, and then subsumed by the Old Growth she's mind-melding with a total stranger for a purpose necessitated only by the previous two traumas she's experienced.

In regards to Western legal and moral standards, which absolutely are relevant in the consideration if you keep in mind that Shepherd is clearly of Western stock (his name and accent are pretty strong hints on that) it's reasonable to assume that his handling of the situation would be influenced by such a background (or our own as players if we grew up in a Western society). Western thought makes a clear distinction between acts committed through one's own agency and those committed under duress or through coercion. Although Shiala followed Benezia into Saren's conspiracy voluntarily she lost her agency when she became indoctrinated; the only bad act we know she's participated in was the attack on Feros which happened after she was no longer responsible for her own actions.

With that in mind, my Shepherds have never killed her because we don't know of any crimes she's actually responsible for.

[Lord Coake]

jamesp81 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I think Shiala is a woefully underused character, and I would love to see her again in ME3. The woman has the Prothean Cipher, after all, that makes her one of only two known individuals (the other being Commander Shepard, of course) who have the Cipher. The Cipher was used as a relatively minor plot point in ME1, but I think being able to "think like a Prothean" and understand their language, culture, etc., is an enormous asset that so far has been completely on the back burner.

Here's something else to consider.  She's the only person, anywhere, to have been indoctrinated by a Reaper and survive the experience with her mind intact.  That would seem to be an important tidbit of info for dealing with the ****storm about to come down the pike in ME3.

"Shepard.  You should have killed me when you had the chance."