483 réponses à ce sujet

[WorpeX]

Lord Coake wrote...

"Shepard.  You should have killed me when you had the chance."

Is probably a line more likely to be the Rachni queen than Shiala. Then again, who knows. It's just speculation, can't use it against Shiala yet.

Modifié par WorpeX, 04 juillet 2011 - 04:59 .

[Xeranx]

 

Modifié par Xeranx, 05 juillet 2011 - 04:49 .

[InvincibleHero]

billywaffles wrote...

You don't get it, i'm afraid. Shepard has no reason to kill Shiala, other than deliberaly want to murder her. The option of killing shiala is not necessary a "renegade" option, is just a "murder" option. She didn't f**k you on purpose, she helped you greatly instead.

The  colonist, for example, although they were controlled by the thorian, they were violent at you (specially that security woman who distrust you), even if you helped them against the geth. Being HOSTILE at you, Shepard here actually had A REASON to screw the grenades and kill everybody because while unwillingly, they have f*****d you a lot.

tl;dr: Killing shiala is like killing dr.chakwas because you feel like it (if you actually had the option to kill chakwas in any way for no reason at all).

Umm no you have two choices let her go or kill her. If there were more options then killing her would indeed be needless. To release her you have to believe she is 100% innocent and her plea of working for redemption will likewise work out. To me she is not 100% innocent. She followed Benezia willingly and Benezia follwed Saren willingly despite knowing what he was doing and that she would have to particpate at some point. Yes she said to try and mediate his actions and bring him around but that never works. In fact why would she even attempt that being two separate species and Saren was a bad individual long before he got indoctrinated. Was she a former lover? Who knows? Point is she isn't innocent or she would not plead for a chance to make things right.

Any criminal will help if just to get a chance to escape or stay away from the noose longer. They are always innocent or railroaded and not responsible for their actions. Come on it is only buyable if you believe it. So she offers the cipher because it is in her best interest and survivablity. So why did she kneel then? I tell you why she felt guilt and was indeed guilty. She accepted the punishment as just.

Funny thing is I never killed the INNOCENT colonists because they were 100% victims of circumstance because their colony happened to be over the thorian. Also I knocked them out with melee for the most part works better. They showed various levels of resistance to control. Fai Dan killed himself to prevent shooting Shepard. So a biotic Asari commando couldn't do better in resisting than a normal human.

If Chakwas tried to kill Shepard and claimed indoctrination or control of thorian it could be an option. Shiala isn't killed for no reason like you claim.

[WorpeX]

Of course she felt guilty. She is one of the most paragon characters in the game. She UNWILLINGLY was a servant for both Saren and the Thorian. She had no control of herself before, and now that she does, she feels regret for her past actions, thus getting on her knees and letting you finish her. Just because someone feels guilty for what they do, doesn't mean you should KILL them for it.

None of Benezia's followers could have ever anticipated indoctrination. They didn't even know a power like that could exist. It is appalling that you could suggest someone who had paragon intentions from the start isn't innocent. She was mind controlled, traded to a thorian and than cloned numerous times over. In the end, when she had her free-will again, she had paragon intentions once more. It is quite clear to me that she is innocent.

Her only crime was joining Benezia in her quest to save the galaxy and not suceeding in it.

Modifié par WorpeX, 05 juillet 2011 - 02:18 .

[Trakarg]

I honestly hope Shiala can come back with a major role if you saved her. She is the only being ever known to overcome indoctrination, after all. I'd take her in a heartbeat over Liara.

[AcidGlow]

Shiala and Liara are the only asari i ever really liked it would be awesome to see Shiala back in ME3 but as a LI... I dont think so Bioware should concentrate on the LI they already have if she was a LI in me2 i wouldnt mind

[AngelicMachinery]

WorpeX wrote...

Of course she felt guilty. She is one of the most paragon characters in the game. She UNWILLINGLY was a servant for both Saren and the Thorian. She had no control of herself before, and now that she does, she feels regret for her past actions, thus getting on her knees and letting you finish her. Just because someone feels guilty for what they do, doesn't mean you should KILL them for it.

None of Benezia's followers could have ever anticipated indoctrination. They didn't even know a power like that could exist. It is appalling that you could suggest someone who had paragon intentions from the start isn't innocent. She was mind controlled, traded to a thorian and than cloned numerous times over. In the end, when she had her free-will again, she had paragon intentions once more. It is quite clear to me that she is innocent.

Her only crime was joining Benezia in her quest to save the galaxy and not suceeding in it.

To machavelian to be a true paragon,  Paragade or regenon at best.  She's not a shining beacon of hope that some people want to view her as.  She willingly entered a plot that involved attempting to harness and control a "Mad man" for the greater good.  When Benezia and her group should have came out and said what was going on,  I'm sure if an asari matriarch and her squad of commando's told the council what was up they wouldn't have stuck their fingers in their ears and went "LALALALA GETH LALALAL REAPERS LALALA"  

Did she deserve to die?  Probably not,  but,  in the eyes of a renegade there's no way to tell she's not going to try to stab you in the back.  Her death is no more monsterous than killing Helena Blake.  I understand that people love her character and that's awesome but you gotta stop idealizing her.

[WorpeX]

Its funny because Matriarch Benezia's plan is no different than what Shepard is trying to do. Stop Saren. The ultimate goal is the same, just a different method. Theirs didn't work. Yet, people are calling Benezia and her followers evil just because she failed.

Also, going the Council would ruined her whole plan considering Saren was a Spectre at the time. All it would have accomplished would be alerting him of their intentions. Furthermore, you saw the difficulty Shepard had trying to convince the council that Saren was evil, they wouldn't have had any better luck.

Modifié par WorpeX, 09 juillet 2011 - 05:03 .

[MYepes95]

I like Shiala. I hope Bioware develops the plot element of her being the only other person who has the Cipher, because it was completely ignored in ME2

[Luigitornado]

Samara/Morinth replacement if they died?

You betcha.

Modifié par Luigitornado, 09 juillet 2011 - 05:43 .

[Lady of the Waters]

If Shiala did appear in ME3 (which is very likely), then I wonder when and where? A recent twitter post saying something along the lines of "ME3 will revisit many locations from ME1" makes me think that Feros and Zhu's Hope might make a return. But if not then I'm thinking either Thessia or Illium.

[WorpeX]

SHIIALLLAAA!!!!!!

[InvincibleHero]

WorpeX wrote...

Its funny because Matriarch Benezia's plan is no different than what Shepard is trying to do. Stop Saren. The ultimate goal is the same, just a different method. Theirs didn't work. Yet, people are calling Benezia and her followers evil just because she failed.

Also, going the Council would ruined her whole plan considering Saren was a Spectre at the time. All it would have accomplished would be alerting him of their intentions. Furthermore, you saw the difficulty Shepard had trying to convince the council that Saren was evil, they wouldn't have had any better luck.

There is a difference in saying culpable or not 100% innocent. She has commited visible crimes that you could present evidence on if there actually was a trial. Good intentions pave the road to you know where and it is a trope seen over and over in media. It does not prevent a real life crime being absolved in present day unless you're lucky and get a sympathetic judge/jury or the police never file charges to begin with (which I would not count on ever).

Do you think you'd get off scott free if you tried to stop a bank robbery (as a civilian) and shot and killed an innocent bystander in the process? Good intentions bad result. Still you had no intention of associating with criminal elements and knowing you'd do some dirty stuff like Benezia and Shiala. I could come up with hundreds of scenarios.

It is just like the ending of Dark Knight. Batman reviled and chased by police even though a true hero. He knows he has to take the hit for the greater good and accept the consequences. Sound familiar?

[Siansonea]

Some guys get off killing off characters in the game, and Shiala's not exempt from that. Whatever convenient pretext serves to "make it okay", well, that's the one they'll use.

Shiala was under MIND CONTROL when she worked with Saren, and all we really know about her involvement with Saren is that she bonded with the Thorian and passed on information to Saren. All while under TWO forms of MIND CONTROL. But yeah, Shiala's a wicked slattern, she must be put down like a dog even though she JUST GAVE YOU THE KEY TO STOPPING SAREN. Riiiiiight.

[lacross328]

All Shiala will ever be is the Asari helping Zhu's Hope after their geth attack.

[InvincibleHero]

Siansonea II wrote...

Some guys get off killing off characters in the game, and Shiala's not exempt from that. Whatever convenient pretext serves to "make it okay", well, that's the one they'll use.

Shiala was under MIND CONTROL when she worked with Saren, and all we really know about her involvement with Saren is that she bonded with the Thorian and passed on information to Saren. All while under TWO forms of MIND CONTROL. But yeah, Shiala's a wicked slattern, she must be put down like a dog even though she JUST GAVE YOU THE KEY TO STOPPING SAREN. Riiiiiight.

Way to mischaracterize people. I did it in 1 playthrough out of 6. It is justifiable regardless of your opinion and insults.

Would you feel the same if your family suffered deaths that can be attributed to Shiala? I bet not. You only have her word when the mind control started and you have only her word that she will behave ethically and with purely good intentions after the Shepard encounter.

As for her providing the cipher it conveniently may help her survivability or converesely suit her need for penetence which is likewise self-serving. It could also be irrelevant in that if she is taken alive the information can be obtained from her.

Last bit of evidence is BW stated many times renegade is not equal to evil yet gave the option to kill her. That means it was justfiiable in the game context or it would not be allowed. Can you kill nayone you want in the game? Nope only the ones BW allows.  None of your crew steps in to stop it or speaks of it afterwards. The council says nothing. If it is truly an unjust death then something should ahve been made of it and there wasn't anything. Of course you will ignore this and keep to your opinions as always.

Modifié par InvincibleHero, 14 juillet 2011 - 04:22 .

[Siansonea]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Some guys get off killing off characters in the game, and Shiala's not exempt from that. Whatever convenient pretext serves to "make it okay", well, that's the one they'll use.

Shiala was under MIND CONTROL when she worked with Saren, and all we really know about her involvement with Saren is that she bonded with the Thorian and passed on information to Saren. All while under TWO forms of MIND CONTROL. But yeah, Shiala's a wicked slattern, she must be put down like a dog even though she JUST GAVE YOU THE KEY TO STOPPING SAREN. Riiiiiight.

Way to mischaracterize people. I did it in 1 playthrough out of 6. It is justifiable regardless of your opinion and insults.

Would you feel the same if your family suffered deaths that can be attributed to Shiala? I bet not. You only have her word when the mind control started and you have only her word that she will behave ethically and with purely good intentions after the Shepard encounter.

As for her providing the cipher it conveniently may help her survivability or converesely suit her need for penetence which is likewise self-serving. It could also be irrelevant in that if she is taken alive the information can be obtained from her.

Last bit of evidence is BW stated many times renegade is not equal to evil yet gave the option to kill her. That means it was justfiiable in the game context or it would not be allowed. Can you kill nayone you want in the game? Nope only the ones BW allows. Of course you will ignore this and keep to your opinions as always.

Who did Shiala kill, hmmmm? Did Shepard ask? Did Shiala give any details about her so-called crimes? Seems like a pretty weak pretext to kill somebody just because she "feels guilty".

And "self-serving" does not equal "needs to be executed".

And BioWare's Renegade ≠ Evil statement is kind of weak too. How is killing Samara NOT evil? How is saving Morinth NOT evil? Seriously, when they decided to let that one through, they pretty much killed any credibility that "Renegades are just misunderstood" nonsense ever had. So yeah, just because BioWare "lets" you kill Shiala doesn't mean that it's anything but an Epic Douche Maneuver.

Seriously, you've got to do better than "Shiala says you can" and "BioWare says it's not evil". Try again.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 14 juillet 2011 - 04:24 .

[InvincibleHero]

Siansonea II wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Some guys get off killing off characters in the game, and Shiala's not exempt from that. Whatever convenient pretext serves to "make it okay", well, that's the one they'll use.

Shiala was under MIND CONTROL when she worked with Saren, and all we really know about her involvement with Saren is that she bonded with the Thorian and passed on information to Saren. All while under TWO forms of MIND CONTROL. But yeah, Shiala's a wicked slattern, she must be put down like a dog even though she JUST GAVE YOU THE KEY TO STOPPING SAREN. Riiiiiight.

Way to mischaracterize people. I did it in 1 playthrough out of 6. It is justifiable regardless of your opinion and insults.

Would you feel the same if your family suffered deaths that can be attributed to Shiala? I bet not. You only have her word when the mind control started and you have only her word that she will behave ethically and with purely good intentions after the Shepard encounter.

As for her providing the cipher it conveniently may help her survivability or converesely suit her need for penetence which is likewise self-serving. It could also be irrelevant in that if she is taken alive the information can be obtained from her.

Last bit of evidence is BW stated many times renegade is not equal to evil yet gave the option to kill her. That means it was justfiiable in the game context or it would not be allowed. Can you kill nayone you want in the game? Nope only the ones BW allows. Of course you will ignore this and keep to your opinions as always.

Who did Shiala kill, hmmmm? Did Shepard ask? Did Shiala give any details about her so-called crimes? Seems like a pretty weak pretext to kill somebody just because she "feels guilty".

And "self-serving" does not equal "needs to be executed".

And BioWare's Renegade ≠ Evil statement is kind of weak too. How is killing Samara NOT evil? How is saving Morinth NOT evil? Seriously, when they decided to let that one through, they pretty much killed any credibility that "Renegades are just misunderstood" nonsense ever had. So yeah, just because BioWare "lets" you kill Shiala doesn't mean that it's anything but an Epic Douche Maneuver.

Seriously, you've got to do better than "Shiala says you can" and "BioWare says it's not evil". Try again.

Colonists died because of her actions. She doesn't need to pull a trigger and kill them in person. She is cupable in that. You can question whether or not trying to kill Shepard and his squad (presumably under thorian control) is a punishable crime, but have no evidence she didn't kill a colonist under thorian control nor did not help with getting colonists under thorian control. You had humans without biotics of substantial intellect fighting the spores better than she presumably did. She may have willingly served the thorian for a chance to escape. You again only have her word she was controlled and no direct corroberating evidence nor the time to do an investigation.

In ME1, do you have an analogue decision because ME2 they did drift more towards renegade is stupid evil? I can't think of any.

Let's see. She threatens renegade Shepard with death since that is all her code seems to allow. She is willing to kill innocent "police officers" doing their job simply for being detained too long. That is justification right there. Shepard's mission to save 100s of thousands of colonists and the rest of the galaxy takes preference to the life of one asari not mission critical. Besides you get a replacement biotic maybe more powerful than her. No impact on mission while leaving her alive is a risk. So you think it just as soon as Shepard defeats Collectors she just hits him with bitotics and kills him in cold blood because then her proimise is over? That is what is promised to happen.

I don't consider Samara to be good she seems lawful neutral to lawful evil to use D&D alignments. Lawful in slavish devotion to the code and she does outright do some things most would consider evil. LN at the low end of scale at best. Worst she is in LE territory.

[Siansonea]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...
*snip*

Who did Shiala kill, hmmmm? Did Shepard ask? Did Shiala give any details about her so-called crimes? Seems like a pretty weak pretext to kill somebody just because she "feels guilty".

And "self-serving" does not equal "needs to be executed".

And BioWare's Renegade ≠ Evil statement is kind of weak too. How is killing Samara NOT evil? How is saving Morinth NOT evil? Seriously, when they decided to let that one through, they pretty much killed any credibility that "Renegades are just misunderstood" nonsense ever had. So yeah, just because BioWare "lets" you kill Shiala doesn't mean that it's anything but an Epic Douche Maneuver.

Seriously, you've got to do better than "Shiala says you can" and "BioWare says it's not evil". Try again.

Colonists died because of her actions. She doesn't need to pull a trigger and kill them in person. She is cupable in that. You can question whether or not trying to kill Shepard and his squad (presumably under thorian control) is a punishable crime, but have no evidence she didn't kill a colonist under thorian control nor did not help with getting colonists under thorian control. You had humans without biotics of substantial intellect fighting the spores better than she presumably did. She may have willingly served the thorian for a chance to escape. You again only have her word she was controlled and no direct corroberating evidence nor the time to do an investigation.

“Colonists died because of her actions.”  No, colonists died because Saren had the place crawling with geth. And we still don't have ANY evidence that she did ANYTHING other than follow Benezia on a risky and ill-advised plan to stop Saren. Shiala was in a pod on the wall the whole time from what I could tell. And the asari CLONES attacked Shepard, not Shiala. Maybe you missed that part? Or did you think Shiala was “respawning”?

“You only have her word she was controlled”. So, her word is good enough to use as an excuse to kill her, but not good enough to use as a reason NOT to kill her. That’s interesting.

“No direct corroborating evidence nor the time to do an investigation”. And that’s a reason to KILL her? “Hmmmm, she might be guilty, and I’m running late for that other mission, so might as well kill her just in case.” That about right?

In ME1, do you have an analogue decision because ME2 they did drift more towards renegade is stupid evil? I can't think of any.

Let's see. She threatens renegade Shepard with death since that is all her code seems to allow. She is willing to kill innocent "police officers" doing their job simply for being detained too long. That is justification right there. Shepard's mission to save 100s of thousands of colonists and the rest of the galaxy takes preference to the life of one asari not mission critical. Besides you get a replacement biotic maybe more powerful than her. No impact on mission while leaving her alive is a risk. So you think it just as soon as Shepard defeats Collectors she just hits him with bitotics and kills him in cold blood because then her proimise is over? That is what is promised to happen.

I don't consider Samara to be good she seems lawful neutral to lawful evil to use D&D alignments. Lawful in slavish devotion to the code and she does outright do some things most would consider evil. LN at the low end of scale at best. Worst she is in LE territory.

Reeeeeeeeaaaaaaaching. Trying to paint Samara as an evildoer is just sad. Dude, if you have to resort to THAT, you’ve already lost the debate. Morinth is a SERIAL KILLER who is universally maligned by the entire asari society. Whatever you think of Samara, her daughter is a bigger monster by FAR.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 14 juillet 2011 - 04:57 .

[InvincibleHero]

@Siansonea

She willing joined Saren. That makes her culpable in any and all crimes committed while serving with him. I would not join the mob to break it from within because I am not a fed or cop which will get immunity for that. I would be rightly charged with any crimes committed that they can tie to my serving in the mob. You are going to get your hands dirty and Benezia and Shiala did. No way out of that. What's to stop any hood from saying I couldn't do anything about it and if i didn't do it then they would kill me and I wasn't responsible for my actions because I had no control. Tell that to the judges that executed WWII war criminals of no rank.

Who would offer their neck for the chopping block if not guilty? Maybe insane people or those with a detah wish and Shiala was neither. Yet 99.9% of people will lie to save their neck. It is why the confession would stick and makes it reasonable.

You had only the two options and freeing her despite her being culpable didn't set well with me either. i would have liked handing her over for trail to either council or Alliance and barring that as a last resort the asari.

Your Samara would have executed Shiala in a heartbeat.

Here's what Morinth didn't do threaten to kill you outright. Her word was as good as samara's in service. personally I would rather associate with Samara however my renegade Shepard would rather have someone more controllable that didn't not make a life threat against him. Morinth is on Normandy II and can go nowhere without sayso of Shepard. Shepard can at any time hand her over to authorities or have her killed. It is the safer option.

Bigger monster doesn't matter. Is someone more monstrous that kills 50 or 100 or 1000 or more. Same in my book. Samara by self-admission has killed innocents while following the code. She never claimed to be "good or moral" either. She is a justicar adhering to their code which we know little about. She is no paladin like people are trying to paint her.

[whywhywhywhy]

InvincibleHero wrote...

@Siansonea

She willing joined Saren. That makes her culpable in any and all crimes committed while serving with him. I would not join the mob to break it from within because I am not a fed or cop which will get immunity for that. I would be rightly charged with any crimes committed that they can tie to my serving in the mob. You are going to get your hands dirty and Benezia and Shiala did. No way out of that. What's to stop any hood from saying I couldn't do anything about it and if i didn't do it then they would kill me and I wasn't responsible for my actions because I had no control. Tell that to the judges that executed WWII war criminals of no rank.

Wow you and dean are on the wrong side of this argument.  Addressing the in-game aspect as a renegade Sheperd I think it's all about the order in which you do things.  If I did feros first I don't know that I'd be convinced about Shiala's argument of mind control her odds of death are higher.  After noveria because of Benezia's actions I'd start to believe that indoctrination was true, because honestly for who she was an the role in which she served the Asari people it doesn't fit.  After Noveria the encounter with Shiala becomes much harder to justify if you intend to kill her, it would mean everyone in me3 who becomes indoctrinated and commits crimes must die by Sheperd's rule.  Once you learn that indoctrination is real, most likely real then her death becomes murder.  You can't be charged with it but morally that's what it is.

From a moral standpoint let's say I had powers of mind control and this is unknown to you and Dean, the both of you renegades are coming to hunt me down to answer for my crimes only to become my unwilling pawns.  If you were to be prosecuted for crimes I compelled you to commit you'd be guilty until it was proven my mind control powers were real.  You'd then have proof and could plead insanity/temporary insanity in a court of law.

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 14 juillet 2011 - 02:25 .

[Siansonea]

 

InvincibleHero wrote...


@Siansonea


She willing joined Saren. That makes her culpable in any and all crimes committed while serving with him. I would not join the mob to break it from within because I am not a fed or cop which will get immunity for that. I would be rightly charged with any crimes committed that they can tie to my serving in the mob. You are going to get your hands dirty and Benezia and Shiala did. No way out of that. What's to stop any hood from saying I couldn't do anything about it and if i didn't do it then they would kill me and I wasn't responsible for my actions because I had no control. Tell that to the judges that executed WWII war criminals of no rank.

Well, those executions occurred after DOCUMENTED atrocities, right? Not just because they wore a uniform? And it was after some kind of trial, right? Not just random executions in the field?


And since when does every lowly stooge in the mob deserve the death penalty? Some of them are petty criminals, hardly worthy of execution. "Guilt by association" does not fly. And if they submit to due process, why kill them out of hand? Just because it's "quicker"?

Who would offer their neck for the chopping block if not guilty? Maybe insane people or those with a detah wish and Shiala was neither. Yet 99.9% of people will lie to save their neck. It is why the confession would stick and makes it reasonable. 

Once again "I feel so guilty, Shepard, please kill me" is not proof of guilt, nor is it a valid reason for the death penalty. Especially since you don't trust her word to support the position of letting her live. You can't have it both ways. You're very swift to exact retribution, and yet you spend no time determining exactly WHAT you're killing her for.

You had only the two options and freeing her despite her being culpable didn't set well with me either. i would have liked handing her over for trail to either council or Alliance and barring that as a last resort the asari.

Well, as long as she lives, she can stand trial. If she's dead, she can't. Just because BioWare imposed a false dichotomy (why couldn't Shepard have taken her into custody and left her with the Zhu's Hope colonists or ExoGeni folks?) doesn't mean killing her is anything but wrong.

Your Samara would have executed Shiala in a heartbeat.

Not if she witnessed what Shepard witnessed. Shiala was not directly observed in any wrongdoing, Samara has no evidence to support Shiala's guilt. Shiala's remorse isn't compelling enough for Samara, the Code would most likely not require Samara to kill Shiala, especially if Shiala willingly submitted to asari law and allowed herself to be taken into custody. Justicars don't just kill people willy-nilly, they only use deadly force when there is no other option.

Here's what Morinth didn't do threaten to kill you outright. Her word was as good as samara's in service. personally I would rather associate with Samara however my renegade Shepard would rather have someone more controllable that didn't not make a life threat against him. Morinth is on Normandy II and can go nowhere without sayso of Shepard. Shepard can at any time hand her over to authorities or have her killed. It is the safer option.

Okay, either you're kidding, or you're delusional. Shepard has a five minute conversation with Morinth, who is actively seducing him so she can kill him. Samara has sworn herself to Shepard's service. Morinth, under extreme circumstances and fighting for her life, "swears" to follow Shepard. Hmmm, yeah, I think I'm going to go with the woman who follows a rigid code, not the serial killer who's promising me the moon to save her own skin, especially since I've known her for less than an hour. 

Bigger monster doesn't matter. Is someone more monstrous that kills 50 or 100 or 1000 or more. Same in my book. Samara by self-admission has killed innocents while following the code. She never claimed to be "good or moral" either. She is a justicar adhering to their code which we know little about. She is no paladin like people are trying to paint her.

Well, the same can be said of any soldier who sees heavy combat. Justice is not always pretty, and sometimes there is collateral damage. Morinth mind-controlled a whole town of innocents, making them attack Samara. Samara had to kill them to get to Morinth, and let's not forget, they were ATTACKING Samara. How is Samara the bad guy here? The point is Samara DOES follow a Code, and a very stringent one, while Morinth simply follows her own whims and desires. If you think Morinth is the better person in this case, well, there's really nothing else to be said here, because that's an obvious exercise in Fail Logic. 

Modifié par Siansonea II, 14 juillet 2011 - 03:50 .

[Yezdigerd]

InvincibleHero wrote...
Colonists died because of her actions. She doesn't need to pull a trigger and kill them in person.

So you hold the colonists responsible for trying to murder you then? I guess that if the game gave you the
option to set up a death camp for them you would go for that?

You again only have her word she was controlled and no direct corroberating evidence nor the time to do an investigation.

Because being encased in a plant and cloned really must be something she did out of her own volition. By
all account she is put under more duress then the colonists.

She willing joined Saren. That makes her culpable in any and all crimes committed while serving with him.

By which laws? Thessia? System alliance? The Citadel? Matriachs are the ruling cast of the Asari,and we KNOW that Benezia and her followers joined with Saren to sway him from serving the reapers. For
whatever reason Benezia didn't believe the Citadel would be believe or able to act on her information. Yet they chose to do what they could to stop the reapers, instead of sitting and wait for them to destroy the galaxy.


Which at best makes the killing of Shiala a tragic miscarriage of justice(assuming executing someone without
any evidence or trial could be constituted justice)



The fact that if you don't murder her, she stays in peace on Feros going by free and without evidence
of even a trial just demonstrate that your view of mass effect law bears no resemblance to what they actually are.

Who would offer their neck for the chopping block if not guilty? Maybe insane people or those with a
detah wish and Shiala was neither.

Lol, your ability to accurately read a alien species state of mind through their actions after being
subjected to mindrape is amazing. A lot of rape victims have a deathwish just saying.


Anyway renegade Shepard expressed reason for killing her isn't justice for her victims but that she cannot trust
her because she has changed sides to often.
Why would you assume a renegade care about the colonists anyway? you get a renegade point for each one you kill.

Modifié par Yezdigerd, 14 juillet 2011 - 07:57 .

[GRRiMREEAPeR]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

I hope she (along with Gianna Parasini) can become romances in ME3.

THIS please this! 
squadmates would be even better tho! might even make me play a male shep for once

[InvincibleHero]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

Wow you and dean are on the wrong side of this argument.  Addressing the in-game aspect as a renegade Sheperd I think it's all about the order in which you do things.  If I did feros first I don't know that I'd be convinced about Shiala's argument of mind control her odds of death are higher.  After noveria because of Benezia's actions I'd start to believe that indoctrination was true, because honestly for who she was an the role in which she served the Asari people it doesn't fit.  After Noveria the encounter with Shiala becomes much harder to justify if you intend to kill her, it would mean everyone in me3 who becomes indoctrinated and commits crimes must die by Sheperd's rule.  Once you learn that indoctrination is real, most likely real then her death becomes murder.  You can't be charged with it but morally that's what it is.

From a moral standpoint let's say I had powers of mind control and this is unknown to you and Dean, the both of you renegades are coming to hunt me down to answer for my crimes only to become my unwilling pawns.  If you were to be prosecuted for crimes I compelled you to commit you'd be guilty until it was proven my mind control powers were real.  You'd then have proof and could plead insanity/temporary insanity in a court of law.

No she had full control and allied with Saren whom she knew to do bad things. Indoctrination is after. If she did not join Benezia and Saren guess what she is not in that position.

There are plenty of examples of asari being evil and lying in the game. It is a judgement callperiod.  Thereis circumstatial evidence on both sides.

 We did not willing join your criminal empire to try and change you into a better person as Benezia claimed. I think it needs to be mentioned it could have been a total fabrication. Just because someone tells you something it should not = instant exoneration. LOL. It is a highly unbelievable story and I think paragon Shepard gullible for falling for it. Yet I did it 5 out of 6 times. I really did feel bad for having to execute her only once as punishment for crimes lacking any other alternative other than to let her go scot free.

Is it murder to kill merc mooks that have yet to fire on you? I'd say you could call it that. How about civilian cerberus scientists like in ME1?

Not really. Proving mind control exists would not be enough. The thorian would almost be required to say yep "I controlled her and made her do that." Well being dead aliens tell no tales suffice to say cannot go in court and help her. It'd be like saying I was under control of x drug so I'm not responsible when you have no blood tests to back it up. Anyone can make claims you need proof.