25715 réponses à ce sujet

[Criz]

because the next few posts then would circle around the post count only and not contribute to the thread much?
oh well, 1000 is an accomplishment!

in other news, on my gender-changed and imported into ME2 trilogy playthrough I just had Shepard cheat on Kaidan after Horizon with casual Jack-sex ...
can't wait to import it into ME3, but there's still so much to do

[zer0netgain]

Anyone else think that the MaleShep/Kaiden script should have been different from the FemShep/Kaiden script?  To me it was too "flaky" when read by a male Shepard.

Here's my take on it.

First, we must accept that there were no M/M romance options in the first two games.  Yes, in ME it was coded in the game but pulled at the last minute.  So, ME3 must flow from the canon that there was no HINT that Kaiden and MaleShep had anything but a friendship in prior games.

Second, even if we accept that in the ME universe same-sex relationships are accepted in society as normal, that does not impose the requirement that all men would be okay to find out their friend was romantically interested in them.  M/F friendships leading to romantic attachments remain more expected than in a M/M or F/F relationship, and that leads to....

Third, unlike the LI with Steve, Kaiden is a friend and brother at arms.  Steve is a different dynamic.  He's new.  We hardly know him.  We learn right away that he's gay and a widower, and ONLY if we show kindness to him at several opportunities is there the opportunity for Shepard and Steve to pursue a romantic interest...AND EVEN THEN only after Shepard says he likes guys.  Neither talks about love...they focus on getting together and seeing what comes next.

Fourth (or Third, part 2), Kaiden has a long running friendship with Shepard.  Anyone who's done a relationship knows that romance/sex can ruin a good friendship as it changes the relationship and you can't just go back as if it never happened.  Steve only put his heart out to be broken.  Kaiden, who according to canon never showed a romantic interest in MaleShep, is not just risking his heart, but he could torpedo a good friendship.  I would fully expect Kaiden to be much more careful before suggesting he MIGHT be interested in Shepard.  That's what makes the script for FemShep and MaleShep identical so hokey.

What does MaleShep do to indicate he's interested?  Bought Kaiden a bottle of booze when he was in the hospital?  The dialogue for FemShep and MaleShep is identical, right?  You'd think Kaiden would want Shepard to say something more direct/suggestive that his feelings for him went beyond just being friends.  The effort needed to gain Kaiden as a LI is just too short to be believable...especially in the M/M arrangement.

Perhaps if they made more dialouge options at the hospital between Shepard and Kaiden regarding romantic interest/feelings it would have been okay to have the same "seduction script" for both genders, but as I see Shepard doing little to indicate to Kaiden he is romantically interested in him, I'd expect Kaiden to be much more "discrete" in his discussion with MaleShep to see if they have feelings in common.

Anyone else feel the buildup for the relationship between MaleShep and Kaiden felt "off" and that there should have been a more specifically crafted script to make the romance option open up than what was done?

[breyant]

Woo 1000!

Cheers!

Modifié par breyant, 27 mars 2012 - 06:50 .

[Aithieel]

@up kiss on the last-screen scene was so cute!

[Cuddlezarro]

Anyone else feel the buildup for the relationship between MaleShep and Kaiden felt "off" and that there should have been a more specifically crafted script to make the romance option open up than what was done?

yep infact the f/m version of the sex scene and date scene are longer than the m/m ones as well

[Criz]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Anyone else feel the buildup for the relationship between MaleShep and Kaiden felt "off" and that there should have been a more specifically crafted script to make the romance option open up than what was done?

yep infact the f/m version of the sex scene and date scene are longer than the m/m ones as well

are we talking about the continued romance of fShep/Kaidan or also the new ME3 fShep/Kaidan romance?

[Frozen83]

Page 1000 needs some Cortez.

M.

[Chun Hei]

Siansonea II wrote...

Not to call too much attention to the page count (we're not supposed to do that), but I have to say that I'm proud of everyone who has contributed to this thread, it's been the most constructive, least volatile incarnation of this thread to date, and it's all because of you. Cheers everyone!

It is too bad I did not get one of the s/s romances I really wanted...



...but we can still party!

[Chun Hei]

breyant wrote...

Woo 1000!

Cheers!

[Siansonea]

Wait, what does sausage have to do with...OH. Uh, never mind...

[CraftyAitrus]

Frozen83 wrote...

Page 1000 needs some Cortez.

M.

Yeah, it does! 

[Cuddlezarro]

is it bad Ifind the idea of some one naming there shepard "adam" and romancing steve to be funny

any ways more Shep X Steve stuff

[Siansonea]

+1 for Adam and Steve.

[Chun Hei]

My gay Vanguard Shepard I imported and romanced Steve with was named "Stephen." Was not planned that way. Oh well.

[ElitePinecone]

Thanks for the great discussion over the last 1000 pages everyone.

@zer0netgain:

I did think it was possibly a little too abrupt in terms of morphing straight into 'omg suddenly I have FEELINGZ for you!", especially when the only remotely romantic thing you can do is buy a bottle of brandy with no associated flirty dialogue.

But remember it's meant to be a trilogy-spanning romance, the dialogue is fairly ambiguous but you can presume that the attraction was always there but left unsaid (by Shepard, or Kaidan, or both, depending on how you interpret it). It wasn't as though after two years of friendship Kaidan just woke up and rabidly pursued Shepard.

Of course it'd be better to add more lines to clarify things, but realistically they only have a certain budget for the romance arcs and m/m with Kaidan is a minority within a minority within a minority. A minority of players who newly-romance Kaidan as a maleShep, within the minority of players who have Kaidan alive, within the minority of people who play gay maleShep (and arguably, within the number of players who even do romances, and that isn't all of them).

Modifié par ElitePinecone, 27 mars 2012 - 10:22 .

[shepskisaac]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

is it bad Ifind the idea of some one naming there shepard "adam" and romancing steve to be funny

Absolutely not xD Love it!

Woohoo 1000! We worked hard!

[Daashi]

As for the Kaidan/mShep romance yes there is less content than the fShep/Kaidan romance (including the all important declaration of affection, which ticked me), but we should look at the positives.

1, Male Shepard can finally romance him (without altering the game).
2, Male Shepard or Kaidan didn't magically become the "Agent peacock" trope or even worse the "Camp Gay" trope (I have nothing against characters that are these tropes, but to suddendly turn them into these tropes would have been insulting).
3, The male Shepard rejection of Kaidan doesn't involve him punching Kaidan and/or homophobic slurs (which is what the CoD crowd probably would have wanted).

[MageTarot]

Anyone have any links to good Kaidan/Sheploo screenshots they would like to share? I want to change my desktop wallpaper. Thanks!

[Knightly_BW]

ElitePinecone wrote...

I did think it was possibly a little too abrupt in terms of morphing straight into 'omg suddenly I have FEELINGZ for you!", especially when the only remotely romantic thing you can do is buy a bottle of brandy with no associated flirty dialogue.

But remember it's meant to be a trilogy-spanning romance, the dialogue is fairly ambiguous but you can presume that the attraction was always there but left unsaid (by Shepard, or Kaidan, or both, depending on how you interpret it). It wasn't as though after two years of friendship Kaidan just woke up and rabidly pursued Shepard.

Of course it'd be better to add more lines to clarify things, but realistically they only have a certain budget for the romance arcs and m/m with Kaidan is a minority within a minority within a minority. A minority of players who newly-romance Kaidan as a maleShep, within the minority of players who have Kaidan alive, within the minority of people who play gay maleShep (and arguably, within the number of players who even do romances, and that isn't all of them).

Maybe I got wrong impression but in m/m Kaidan universe it feels like Kaidan is gay, especially if you didn't play ME1 like me. "Have you ever known me being interested in someone Shepard? Guess I am  choosy or patient" means Kaidan compared all people he met with Shepard and he waited for Shepard to take first step, at least for me. So it is a long going thing and with Mars, leaving Cerberus questions behind and rebuilding trust, Kaidan finally decides to come clean.

I agree Kaidan romance could use some scenes from flagged imports, especially on Mars and invite to Normandy (heh that ass shot too hard to pass) but biggest problem with that ones is flagging. There is only one scene before Mars and it would be too hard to fit a realistic flirting into that one.

In the end Kaidan m/m romance is salvaged one, female and male Shep share some conversations and have minor tweaks (assuming Mars part of flagged one same with female Shep romance). In two M/M romances Steve feel more clear and open, you can see where Steve and Shep are coming from, how they start and end relationship. In that sense Kaidan is more vauge (like out of blue flirting for old characters). However that gives more space to headcanon things before ME3.

[Bellendaine]

I think it's different if you play ME1, Asperius, and actually in some ways a little more satisfying. The cutscenes anytime Shep talks to Kaidan in ME1 are all sepia colored and a little slo-mo and even though there's no flirting dialogue, it always feels like there's some underlying sexual tension between them. At least to me ... so Kaidan expresses crushes on an old flame, and lightly ogles the women at Flux (a club), but at the same time Ashley has a dialogue aside where she says, in response to Kaidan saying he can't believe an NPC was affected by a woman so much, "That's cause you don't understand women, Kaidan ..." So there's lots of ambiguity there from ME1.

[Quething]

So dudeShep is huge compared to femShep.



Kisses just do not line up *at all,* I had to spend like eight minutes in flycam circling this setup for an angle that looked more sexy/sweet than just goofy.

That said: totally worth it. And I don't even mind the lack of Shep-over in this conversation because Shep's lines are frankly pretty stupid. Poor Ash got really hard done by in this game. 

Modifié par Quething, 28 mars 2012 - 01:42 .

[Knightly_BW]

Bellendaine wrote...

I think it's different if you play ME1, Asperius, and actually in some ways a little more satisfying. The cutscenes anytime Shep talks to Kaidan in ME1 are all sepia colored and a little slo-mo and even though there's no flirting dialogue, it always feels like there's some underlying sexual tension between them. At least to me ... so Kaidan expresses crushes on an old flame, and lightly ogles the women at Flux (a club), but at the same time Ashley has a dialogue aside where she says, in response to Kaidan saying he can't believe an NPC was affected by a woman so much, "That's cause you don't understand women, Kaidan ..." So there's lots of ambiguity there from ME1.

Hmm I wonder if same person write Kaidan in ME1 and ME3. I like his character too much. So far from what I gathered about ME1, in case of play mechanics it doesn't sound very promising. However I want to play ME1 only for Kaidan.

Rest of the story is known from last two games anyway. Also I wonder if Ashley still that cold in ME1. She sounds way less friendlier than Kaidan during hospital scenes. Even if you don't romance Kaidan hospital visit feels two friends trying to get over history and rekindle their trust. While Ashley has same tone, she and my femShep sounded like two co-workers decide to act normal to keep office peace, more professional.

[Knightly_BW]

Quething wrote...

So dudeShep is huge compared to femShep.



Kisses just do not line up *at all,* I had to spend like eight minutes in flycam circling this setup for an angle that looked more sexy/sweet than just goofy.

That said: totally worth it. And I don't even mind the lack of Shep-over in this conversation because Shep's lines are frankly pretty stupid. Poor Ash got really hard done by in this game. 

Same problem also existed with modded Alistair romance (first Equal love one). Alistair was kissing either nose or chin of my warden. When I used longer hair, it blocked the view so it was easier to play. I think I see there was a discussion about using Diana Allers' hair for femshep. You can try that if you don't mind long hair on your Shep.

[zer0netgain]

Asperius wrote...

Hmm I wonder if same person write Kaidan in ME1 and ME3. I like his character too much. So far from what I gathered about ME1, in case of play mechanics it doesn't sound very promising. However I want to play ME1 only for Kaidan.

It is noteworthy that Kaiden was a bi-sexual love interest in ME1.  The devs scraped the idea at the last minute, but the dialoge options, audio, etc. was still in the game...just locked out.  I noted that his dialoge with FemShep was definitely scripted to be somewhat gender neutral in how it came across (it worked as if he was talking to a man or a woman).

[Knightly_BW]

zer0netgain wrote...

Asperius wrote...

Hmm I wonder if same person write Kaidan in ME1 and ME3. I like his character too much. So far from what I gathered about ME1, in case of play mechanics it doesn't sound very promising. However I want to play ME1 only for Kaidan.

It is noteworthy that Kaiden was a bi-sexual love interest in ME1.  The devs scraped the idea at the last minute, but the dialoge options, audio, etc. was still in the game...just locked out.  I noted that his dialoge with FemShep was definitely scripted to be somewhat gender neutral in how it came across (it worked as if he was talking to a man or a woman).

That discussion's been done here before and from what I gather neither Kaidan nor Ashley didn't planned as bisexual LIs. It was just ME1 voice acting gimmick so voice actors read both gender lines for sake of speed up process.

However even with upgraded VA technique, still Mars stage of ME3 has femaleShep only lines voiced by Meer. Like "Kaidan/Don't "Kaidan" me!" or I am checking on Kaidan (instead of Kaidan and James) or Shepard's express of his worries about Kaidan after first dream sequence. In non romanced run those are different lines.