25715 réponses à ce sujet

[shepskisaac]

choowy is amazing!  choowy.tumblr.com/post/20032847833/bjane-submitted-2012-03-26-08-30-shep-cortez

[ElitePinecone]

Bellendaine wrote...

I think it's different if you play ME1, Asperius, and actually in some ways a little more satisfying. The cutscenes anytime Shep talks to Kaidan in ME1 are all sepia colored and a little slo-mo and even though there's no flirting dialogue, it always feels like there's some underlying sexual tension between them. At least to me ... so Kaidan expresses crushes on an old flame, and lightly ogles the women at Flux (a club), but at the same time Ashley has a dialogue aside where she says, in response to Kaidan saying he can't believe an NPC was affected by a woman so much, "That's cause you don't understand women, Kaidan ..." So there's lots of ambiguity there from ME1.

I think a lot of people are retrospectively seeing tidbits where none were originally intended to exist, but it does add to the trilogy-spanning sense of it in ME3. In hindsight it does look like the game is dropping hints everywhere, but that's less of a product of deliberate ambiguity on the part of the writers, and more about misinterpeting what's already there. 

(And I suppose, from a particular point of view, that if Bioware seemed to build off the ME stuff as a foundation for ME3's romance arc, it may be that they're calling it tension-filled and ambiguous now even if it at the time it wasn't meant to be so, that's their perogative. If they say those hints in ME are indicative of something between Shep/Kaidan in the first game, it still stands - even if they originally didn't mean it that way)

[Quething]

They weren't planned as bi LIs. The devs discovered, though, *because* of the way Meer and Hale did each other's lines, that they actually could work pretty well and there was some interesting chemistry there, so they apparently considered implementing it - but they decided they'd have to do too much rewriting for the amount of time they had left to make it work.

That decision is a little beyond my comprehension since both romances, when hacked, have a maximum of like three bad sentences that don't work perfectly fine for either gender of Shep, so I don't know what "rewriting" they thought they had to do, but maybe stuff got cut, or something?

And Asperius, no, Ash is not cold at all in 1. Her weird standoffishness and the inability to even be friends with her in 3 is totally new, and I think has a lot to do with her original writer no longer being with the team. It's completely possible to have her as a fantastic BFF for femShep or dudeShep in 1 (and it makes Horizon make a lot more sense).

[ElitePinecone]

zer0netgain wrote...

Asperius wrote...

Hmm I wonder if same person write Kaidan in ME1 and ME3. I like his character too much. So far from what I gathered about ME1, in case of play mechanics it doesn't sound very promising. However I want to play ME1 only for Kaidan.

It is noteworthy that Kaiden was a bi-sexual love interest in ME1.  The devs scraped the idea at the last minute, but the dialoge options, audio, etc. was still in the game...just locked out.  I noted that his dialoge with FemShep was definitely scripted to be somewhat gender neutral in how it came across (it worked as if he was talking to a man or a woman).

This is a common misconception, but they were never intended as bisexual love interests. The lines were recorded because of the way the voice actors and scripts worked, and the dev team had a meeting about possibly implementing the s/s in ME, but it was decided to not pursue it because of [reasons]. 

(To be been 'cut', they would've needed to be approved in the first place)

[shepskisaac]

Quething wrote...

That decision is a little beyond my comprehension since both romances, when hacked, have a maximum of like three bad sentences that don't work perfectly fine for either gender of Shep, so I don't know what "rewriting" they thought they had to do, but maybe stuff got cut, or something?

But there was also the issue of cutscenes. As we can see ourselves thanks to modding, replacing mShep model with fShep or vice versa ain't enough to make s/s cutscenes. Due to the difference in body sizes, rigs and mo-capping has to be fixed. Patrick Weeks in his post did say having to make new cutscenes was another problem with implementing bi romances late in developement.

Bottom line is, it COULD've been still done, but s/s romances was so at the very bottom of their priority list (which they admited many times) they focused on other things.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 28 mars 2012 - 02:48 .

[Knightly_BW]

Quething wrote...

And Asperius, no, Ash is not cold at all in 1. Her weird standoffishness and the inability to even be friends with her in 3 is totally new, and I think has a lot to do with her original writer no longer being with the team. It's completely possible to have her as a fantastic BFF for femShep or dudeShep in 1 (and it makes Horizon make a lot more sense).

Yeah even on Horizon she sounded more friendlier to me. At first I thought her hospital scene was cold because of my mShep's cheating her. I was kinda excited to visit her with my femShep and grabbed all presents from kiosk(again) and I get that professional conversation. Maybe she have better conversation after Udina coup. My male Shep killed Ashley (and she is awarded with lamest death scene oscar by me).

After seeing all this I better understand all that Ashley thing going on BSN. Kaidan surely got more attention than Ashley it is clear.


Edit: Heh my weak memory at work again. Fixed.

Modifié par Asperius, 28 mars 2012 - 02:57 .

[shepskisaac]

Kaidan's writer changed as well, but the majority of Kaidan fans are very impressed how well the new writer took over.

[RogueState]

Bellendaine wrote...

I think it's different if you play ME1, Asperius, and actually in some ways a little more satisfying. The cutscenes anytime Shep talks to Kaidan in ME1 are all sepia colored and a little slo-mo and even though there's no flirting dialogue, it always feels like there's some underlying sexual tension between them. At least to me ... so Kaidan expresses crushes on an old flame, and lightly ogles the women at Flux (a club), but at the same time Ashley has a dialogue aside where she says, in response to Kaidan saying he can't believe an NPC was affected by a woman so much, "That's cause you don't understand women, Kaidan ..." So there's lots of ambiguity there from ME1.

This is pretty much how I interpreted all of the conversations with Kaidan in ME1. To me there always seemed to be an underlying sexual tension between them. I think this definitely carried into ME2 on Horizon. The tension seemed to be even more strained and I could never interpret the "losing you was like losing a limb" line as anything other than an admission of Kaidan having feelings for Shep!

So when I finally got to the cafe date in ME3 the conversation seemed to fit perfectly with the way I had roleplayed the entire relationship, I don't think it could have been more perfect for me. I think the whole scene and romance was handled extremely well and fit with in with Kaidans character.

I've heard some people say that it seems like Kaidan is 'settling' for Shep when he says it just feels right for the two of them to be together but I didn't see it that way at all. To me it seemed that Kaidan was finally admitting he cared for Shep and always had and as he'd almost just had his face crushed and they could all die soon, now was the time to say it! And once the romance got going it never seemed like it was rushed or just tagged on to 'appease' the gay fans, I felt like it was a genuine loving and caring relationship and I aint ashamed to say I was welling up when they said their goodbyes at the end, Sbarge and Meer nailed that scene and the whole romance IMO.

I'm not saying it's a perfect romance, a few more dialogues would have been nice for sure and I do wish those three special little words were said by Kaidan and Shep as it would seem that Kaidan and Steve's romances are the only ones where it isn't but that's for another rant!

And wow, i didn't mean to write that much, but thought I'd throw my two cents in on how I viewed the romance

[NGC1300]

Akrim_Drak wrote...

M!ShepxKaidan sleeping. NSFW! >.>

PHWOAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

[Siansonea]

Quething wrote...

So dudeShep is huge compared to femShep.



Kisses just do not line up *at all,* I had to spend like eight minutes in flycam circling this setup for an angle that looked more sexy/sweet than just goofy.

That said: totally worth it. And I don't even mind the lack of Shep-over in this conversation because Shep's lines are frankly pretty stupid. Poor Ash got really hard done by in this game. 

What happened to Ashley's hair in this image? It looks like she got a haircut. 

[Bellendaine]

ElitePinecone wrote...


This is a common misconception, but they were never intended as bisexual love interests. The lines were recorded because of the way the voice actors and scripts worked, and the dev team had a meeting about possibly implementing the s/s in ME, but it was decided to not pursue it because of [reasons]. 

(To be been 'cut', they would've needed to be approved in the first place)

Well, some of you know I'm a theater professor, and still do a lot of acting, particularly voice over work.  I will tell you that, while not impossible, it's very unusual for someone to be hired and do all of the dialogue, so I'm a bit skeptical about that assertion even though I have heard that before.  Possible?  Sure, no question.  Common?  No, not in my reasonably substantive experience.  Heck, most of the time, it's broken down for me to read certain stuff even when I'm *auditioning,* let alone hired to do it.  Time is money, so mostly they want it to be as efficient as possible.

However, I'm also not saying that I believe Kaidan was, or wasn't, intended to be a bi LI in ME1, as I certainly don't know anything from the inside.  I'm just saying that intended or not, the way the cutscenes happened, the occasional dialogue bits, etc., it's easy to interpret the signs differently if you've played ME1 & 2.  Perhaps it wasn't intended on BW's part, but whomever did them left a lot of unintended signs then!

[Siansonea]

Bellendaine wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...


This is a common misconception, but they were never intended as bisexual love interests. The lines were recorded because of the way the voice actors and scripts worked, and the dev team had a meeting about possibly implementing the s/s in ME, but it was decided to not pursue it because of [reasons]. 

(To be been 'cut', they would've needed to be approved in the first place)

Well, some of you know I'm a theater professor, and still do a lot of acting, particularly voice over work.  I will tell you that, while not impossible, it's very unusual for someone to be hired and do all of the dialogue, so I'm a bit skeptical about that assertion even though I have heard that before.  Possible?  Sure, no question.  Common?  No, not in my reasonably substantive experience.  Heck, most of the time, it's broken down for me to read certain stuff even when I'm *auditioning,* let alone hired to do it.  Time is money, so mostly they want it to be as efficient as possible.

However, I'm also not saying that I believe Kaidan was, or wasn't, intended to be a bi LI in ME1, as I certainly don't know anything from the inside.  I'm just saying that intended or not, the way the cutscenes happened, the occasional dialogue bits, etc., it's easy to interpret the signs differently if you've played ME1 & 2.  Perhaps it wasn't intended on BW's part, but whomever did them left a lot of unintended signs then!

And let's not forget that EVERYTHING BioWare tells us is filtered through PR, Legal, and Marketing, so the official story is always going to be tweaked and prodded so that it is "on message" and as unlikely as possible to cause controversy. If they were too chicken to pull the trigger on m/m during the runup to ME1, they will NEVER admit it publicly, no matter what. That's just not the way these things work. To me it's not that big a deal though, it's clear that it was at least on their minds back then, and they did finally make an effort in ME3 to address the issue. And they did it really well, for m/m at least. Now if we could just get f/f stuff that doesn't look like it was written by and for straight men. 

[Criz]

IsaacShep wrote...

Kaidan's writer changed as well, but the majority of Kaidan fans are very impressed how well the new writer took over.

totally, but I never get a reply when asking if she's on twitter or something so I can shower her with pictures to proof my love for mShep/Kaidan ... *shrug*

[Quething]

Siansonea II wrote...
What happened to Ashley's hair in this image? It looks like she got a haircut. 

Indeed. It's a texmod file that tones down her makeup and uses the alpha channel to trim her hair down to a sort of loose shoulder-length vaguely pixie-cut look. Doesn't fix the "why is she suddenly white" issue but it's still a step in the right direction...

[Akrim_Drak]

Quething wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
What happened to Ashley's hair in this image? It looks like she got a haircut. 

Indeed. It's a texmod file that tones down her makeup and uses the alpha channel to trim her hair down to a sort of loose shoulder-length vaguely pixie-cut look. Doesn't fix the "why is she suddenly white" issue but it's still a step in the right direction...

I like that hair on her! Too bad I'll never play a game with her alive  but still! I like that hair!

[Ninja Mage]

Yeah..I just don't like Ash's personality..not my cup of tea

[Ninja Mage]

here's my kaiden romance video

[Akrim_Drak]

Inappropriate sexytimes in the medbay! James... so ashamed.



Trollin on the Citadel... This lady is like the beard from HELL. Leave the poor guy alone! (yeah yeah, I was runnin around nekkid! I got bored.)

Modifié par Akrim_Drak, 28 mars 2012 - 07:51 .

[Daashi]

Quething wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
What happened to Ashley's hair in this image? It looks like she got a haircut. 

Indeed. It's a texmod file that tones down her makeup and uses the alpha channel to trim her hair down to a sort of loose shoulder-length vaguely pixie-cut look. Doesn't fix the "why is she suddenly white" issue but it's still a step in the right direction...

Or why Kaidan is now white instead of pan-Asian?

Edit: Is skin bleeching now an acceptable cosmetic practice in the 22nd century?

Modifié par Daashi, 28 mars 2012 - 07:54 .

[Cuddlezarro]

Akrim_Drak wrote...

ok how did you make it so you can run around nekkid

[Puzzlewell]

Since I finally managed to get my game registered (after beating the game mind you...) I'm back at last! I have far too many pages to go over as to what I missed but to quickly comment on something:

@Quething: asdfgfdsasdffds that haircut on Ash is amazing... *______________*

Ignoring the endings (we won't go there), I'm honestly pretty pleased with how the FemShep Ashley conversations went down throughout the game and so many of them fit nicely to where I could keep the headcanon pretty pleased if I so choosed. Haha their back and forths where Shep forces Ash to call her ma'am just did wonderful things for me. Also I couldn't help but chuckle a bit because during the final talk on Earth before going up to see Anderson, it looks like Shep keeps inching closer to Ash to the point where they really are in "JUST KISS ALREADY" distance.  So basically why part of me is still a little "Awwwr..." that Ash isn't properly available, there is enough present for my imagination to just fill in the blanks as I see fit.

Completion of Liara's trilogy long romance made me as happy as can be expected (aside from the slightly awkward friend-zonish middle but I can get over it). Amusing how BW has no problem throwing "she"s around all over the place now. Oh weeeeell.

Modifié par CalamityRanger, 28 mars 2012 - 08:00 .

[ElitePinecone]

Bellendaine wrote...
snip

That information came from Bioware writer Patrick Weekes; having both Shepards read *all* parts of the script was done because of the way their voice recording system worked, given that they still had paper scripts and no way to sort out which lines were gender-specific. There was no elaborate conspiracy theory to cut s/s romances at the last minute, because they were considered and discarded earlier in development. Nor do I think Bioware's legal or PR people had anything to do with it, Weekes has probably the most interaction with fans of all the writers and he rarely if ever resorted to prepared statements. If every developer had to get approval for forum posts we'd never hear a thing. 

The fact that the dialogue exists doesn't mean it was ever intended to be used, or even that it was recorded for the purpose you think it was. They recorded maleShep confronting Harkin about sexism, for example, even though it sounds crazy in context when he calls Shepard 'princess'. 

The maleShep/Kaidan tension and ambiguity might be there in your interpretation, but it wasn't a deliberate action on the part of Bioware. I think it's awfully easy to look at things in hindsight and see interpretations and meanings that weren't supposed to be there. 

[earovin]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Akrim_Drak wrote...

ok how did you make it so you can run around nekkid

I would also like to learn how to do this... for science.

[Bellendaine]

ElitePinecone wrote...

That information came from Bioware writer Patrick Weekes; having both Shepards read *all* parts of the script was done because of the way their voice recording system worked, given that they still had paper scripts and no way to sort out which lines were gender-specific. There was no elaborate conspiracy theory to cut s/s romances at the last minute, because they were considered and discarded earlier in development.  The fact that the dialogue exists doesn't mean it was ever intended to be used, or even that it was recorded for the purpose you think it was. They recorded maleShep confronting Harkin about sexism, for example, even though it sounds crazy in context when he calls Shepard 'princess'. 

The maleShep/Kaidan tension and ambiguity might be there in your interpretation, but it wasn't a deliberate action on the part of Bioware. I think it's awfully easy to look at things in hindsight and see interpretations and meanings that weren't supposed to be there. 

I think I already said that I took this point.  I'm not arguing what was intended or not, I'm saying that in my experience it's unusual for dialogue to be written (or recorded), that's not meant to be used.  As a member of SAG/AFTRA, I can assure you that every 1/4 hour that I'm in that recording both, they're paying me.  So producers are usually pretty efficient about what's being recorded.  Although it would make more sense since Hale/Meer were doing the same character, just not for the other characters.  Nor am I suggesting an elaborate conspiracy.  I said pretty clearly that ...

"However, I'm also not saying that I believe Kaidan was, or wasn't,
intended to be a bi LI in ME1, as I certainly don't know anything from
the inside.  I'm just saying that intended or not, the way the cutscenes
happened, the occasional dialogue bits, etc., it's easy to interpret
the signs differently if you've played ME1 & 2.  Perhaps it wasn't
intended on BW's part, but whomever did them left a lot of unintended
signs then!"

So, not quibbling with you, or agreeing with you, just saying that if it wasn't intended, it was a happy accident.

Modifié par Bellendaine, 28 mars 2012 - 08:13 .

[Akrim_Drak]

Uhh... Lemme find the coalesced file or whatever. I uploaded it to mediafire for someone else...

Modded Coalesced

Should work. Goes in C: > Program Files(x86)for 64bit just Program Files for 32bit > Origin Games > Mass Effect 3 > BIOGame > CookedPCConsole

I only added the underwear as a casual outfit so change it there. I was too lazy to make it an armor set. It'll work on the Citadel and the Normandy. It works for Male and Female btw. I was working on trying to figure out how to get James shirtless and Kaidan/Ashley in their underwear but I never got around to it.

It should be possible to do on 360 as well but you have to go through a whooole lotta hoops there and I am not the one to look to for that information!

Modifié par Akrim_Drak, 28 mars 2012 - 08:53 .