25715 réponses à ce sujet

[ElitePinecone]

SolidBeast wrote...
And as long as the kid stays real, I can't see myself being satisfied with the DLC. 

It breaks enough of the verisimillitude of the universe (there's that word again, but I think it's really valid here) that they could make an entirely rainbows-unicorns-happy-LI-reunion post-ending scene, with all the 'clarification' retcons in the world about how the galaxy isn't actually doomed because of Reaper space magic drive cores, and the motivations of the Reapers would still make no sense. The Catalyst would still make no sense, and a magical space-deity masquerading as a dead child because reasons is so... jarrng... that I think it's horribly out of place, and will stay so. 

Allan Schumacher from the DA QA team (acting as a mod) said the other day that from what he'd seen, people who disliked the endings tended to break down into a few complaints: no happy ending, dissatisfaction with the lack of clarity/consequences for choices and dissatisfaction with the Catalyst. Many have complaints about all those areas and more. 

Point being: at a guess some of the more 'immersed' fans (who might be in the character forum, say) are unhappy because their headcanon'd future with Shepard and [character] can't or won't come about (or might, but we have absolutely no idea because it's so ambiguous). But even if this is solved somehow, a lot of the last ten minutes of the game just feels so incredibly disjointed and unexplained. I don't think pasting on cutscenes of consequences and an expanded explanation from the Catalyst is going to help that. 

[SolidBeast]

@ devSin - while I find the Normandy sequence incredibly retarded, that, to me, is not the root of the problem. The problem is that, even if they fix that part, even if they make the Normandy not crash at all and make Joker destroy Harbinger then merrily land and finish off some husks while nonchalantly strolling through the ruins of London, only to later pick Shep up from the rubble and fly off into the sunset - if I were to go back and play ME1-2, those games would still no longer make sense with the Reapers' reasoning as of now. Why the hell is Harbinger telling me "Your species WILL fall" when all he really wants to do is to "save" us? Why the hell is he commenting on the genetic potential of various species if that's not even relevant? Has he become demented in his old age?
I'm not even going to mention the 42981253 other problems with the ending, it's just a gigantic pile of bullcrap and the Normandy part is but a small piece of that.

I'm not saying I wouldn't like my Shepard to be reunited with his LI (it's Kaidan, therefore this post is now perfectly on topic!), but really, I'd rather he die, Earth gets incinerated, the fleet is obliterated, the galaxy blows up, everyone dies, if it meant getting rid of the goddamn kid and making the Reapers' motivations unknown. Hell, that would leave people speculating, not desperately digging for evidence that none of this crap ever happened.

In short, I agree with Elite.

But yeah, I know this topic has been discussed to death already. I'm just late to the party, having recently returned from my little vacation on the other side of the fence.

Modifié par SolidBeast, 24 avril 2012 - 01:59 .

[devSin]

I don't disagree, and I certainly don't mean to suggest that it's the only or even the primary flaw.

I understand the complaints, and I do recognize the fundamental issues with the narrative (although, to be fair, the plot here is exceptionally weak even before the end) and with the characterization of the Reapers (both the one on Rannoch, and with the revelation of the Starchild).

But for me, the power of the story comes from the most local elements. The characters. The subplots for the various characters and the species. The notable locations. Past ME, the Reapers have never held much interest for me. The Collectors were dumb. Harbinger was dumb. The Reapers are just dumb.

By the time ME3 comes around, the last thing I care about in this setting are the Reapers. To me, they're a backdrop, simply an element of detail for the setting in which the real stories are taking place. And until there is actually meaningful resolution to those stories, I don't think I can really judge the impact the Starchild has for me on the rest of the game or even the trilogy (and it's possible the extended cut will come and resolve a lot of these plots and character threads and I'll still be completely unsatisfied because the whole premise of the ending is utter nonsense).

Like I said, I like to think that I could be happy. It's possible I won't be.

[Bellendaine]

I hear all sides of the argument, and can appreciate the points of view. I fall in the category of "I want it all." I mean, truly. It's not that I expect all my dreams to be perfectly realized (I know I'll never get a Sheploo/Kaidan happy ever after reunion scene, or the Sheploo/Kaidan ME4 sequel that I dream of at night ), but I do want them to 1) honor the plotline/through-line/canonlore/etc. of the game so far; 2) allow my efforts to amass the mightiest military force the galaxy has *ever* seen to our knowledge to mean something in the final battle; 3) not let a deus ex machina Casper the Starchild be the emo resolution of a story that never introduces itself as such anywhere else in the narrative, and 4) let me have the option of an in-game happy ending with my LI and friends that I've spent three years (in game time) as Shepard doing my damnedest to save.

And I anticipate that I'll get none of it from the "Extended Cut DLC."

Modifié par Bellendaine, 24 avril 2012 - 02:58 .

[ElitePinecone]

SolidBeast wrote...
if I were to go back and play ME1-2, those games would still no longer make sense with the Reapers' reasoning as of now. Why the hell is Harbinger telling me "Your species WILL fall" when all he really wants to do is to "save" us? Why the hell is he commenting on the genetic potential of various species if that's not even relevant? Has he become demented in his old age?

I genuinely hadn't even considered that point until your post. Wow. 

With the decision to abandon the dark energy/humans-are-special ending, ME3 makes even less sense. Why were the Reapers focusing on harvesting humans (with the Collectors) if the goal is to preserve organic life through transformation into a Reaper? Wouldn't any old species do? And if the other species aren't Reaper-worthy, as in ME2/3's old saving-the-universe-from-dark-energy plot, does that mean they just... die out... with no culture or history preserved? Hardly salvation. 

Guh. 

I love the characterisation in Bioware's games and they're the best in the industry at making me feel for characters, but they've *GOT* to sort out the main plots. That's ridiculous. 

[devSin]

I think this is sort of addressed in the game.

The humans are this cycle's capital ship. The rest of the species are destined to become destroyers. (Each species is its own Reaper.)

It's ridiculous, but they did make at least a marginal effort to explain it. (Then again, "humans are special" was always absurd.)

[Chun Hei]

devSin wrote...

I think this is sort of addressed in the game.

The humans are this cycle's capital ship. The rest of the species are destined to become destroyers. (Each species is its own Reaper.)

It's ridiculous, but they did make at least a marginal effort to explain it. (Then again, "humans are special" was always absurd.)

Humans have gays. That makes them special. According to Bioware the Asari do not counts so it sucks to be them. Back on topic.

[Quething]

Well, if they're after us for our fabulous queerosity you'd think they'd be down for turians too. At least if that Gavorn thing is what everybody seems to think it is (I was never convinced, personally).

[AndreasShepard]

www.youtube.com/watch

Maybe this was posted already but it was new to me (and made me giddy).  Extended romance dialogue between Kaidan and MShep.

[Gilthanis]

AndreasShepard wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

Maybe this was posted already but it was new to me (and made me giddy).  Extended romance dialogue between Kaidan and MShep.

I hadn't seen/heard that before.  It makes me sad that they cut some of that conversation out.  

[AndreasShepard]

Gilthanis wrote...

AndreasShepard wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

Maybe this was posted already but it was new to me (and made me giddy).  Extended romance dialogue between Kaidan and MShep.

I hadn't seen/heard that before.  It makes me sad that they cut some of that conversation out.  

Yeah, MShep telling Kaidan he loves him is kind of a big deal for people who did that romance, it's a shame it didn't make the game.

[goodventure]

AndreasShepard wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

Maybe this was posted already but it was new to me (and made me giddy).  Extended romance dialogue between Kaidan and MShep.

Whyyyyy wasn't this in-game?! Ahhh I really wanted an "I love you" moment between ManShep and Kaidan. 

Still, hearing this makes me happy. 

[devSin]

goodventure wrote...

Whyyyyy wasn't this in-game?!

I think they cut it because it's the part of the scene where female Shepard gets on his lap, and then he carries her to bed.

Shepard is a big guy. I doubt he's going to be on Kaidan's lap, and I'm not sure all players would be cool with Kaidan carrying him around the room.

You could always ask them to try changing these for the extended cut (I mean, it pretty much is the start of the ending, so why not) so that the extra lines can be used. Or maybe they could add some lines for the goodbye scene that impart more emotion (or use the word "love"). Yeah, probably not, but it couldn't hurt to make a request.

[Bellendaine]

goodventure wrote...

Whyyyyy wasn't this in-game?! Ahhh I really wanted an "I love you" moment between ManShep and Kaidan. 

Still, hearing this makes me happy. 

Agreed, this just adds to my disappointment with Bioware.  This should've been kept.

[MACharlie1]

For this scene, I wish they thought it through more for a manShep instead of rushing to cut it out.

No need to have Shep on Kaidan's lap - the fade out occurs as Shep pins Kaidan to the couch. For FemShep, she flips up onto his lap. Obviously, manShep is going to look odd so instead, have Shep "straddle" him. Left leg on the floor in between Kaidan's legs, right leg bent up to Kaidan's left on the couch. Bam. No carrying. Just Shep pulling Kaidan up and they pull and push each other towards bed. Start love making.

[AndreasShepard]

MACharlie1 wrote...

For this scene, I wish they thought it through more for a manShep instead of rushing to cut it out.

No need to have Shep on Kaidan's lap - the fade out occurs as Shep pins Kaidan to the couch. For FemShep, she flips up onto his lap. Obviously, manShep is going to look odd so instead, have Shep "straddle" him. Left leg on the floor in between Kaidan's legs, right leg bent up to Kaidan's left on the couch. Bam. No carrying. Just Shep pulling Kaidan up and they pull and push each other towards bed. Start love making.

Exactly, there's no reason to cut important voice content simply because it wouldn't look right, just alter the animations to fit the scenario.  It's more development time but giving some people more and others less is bound to have a negative reaction.

[ALa6RAnDlePuCQK3]

MageTarot wrote...

Posted on the Kaidan forum as well:

Thanks to neehs on deviantart.com for this...and yes, I'm fully expecting Shepard to open his eyes any minute now...

I loved<3

[BENIIICHAT]

Hey Everybody I have question about Kaidan Romance.

In Kaidan Dinner at Citadel. I think it have two difference dialogue. because I think If I decide to refuse Cortez in Purgatory before I go to meet Kaidan for dinner, Kaidan has additional dialogue about detail for "SomeOne" he care. am I right or I just miss something ?


Thank for answer & Forgive me about my English Skill.

[devSin]

Yes, if you don't have an active romance, then the dinner with Kaidan will be a date (and you can choose to initiate a romance with him).

If you are already in a romance (ME3 doesn't let you pursue multiple romances), then the dinner will just be a friendship conversation.

[BENIIICHAT]

devSin wrote...

Yes, if you don't have an active romance, then the dinner with Kaidan will be a date (and you can choose to initiate a romance with him).

If you are already in a romance (ME3 doesn't let you pursue multiple romances), then the dinner will just be a friendship conversation.

Oh! I am wrong about My Question.

what I want to say is, I can romance with him all of My playthrough. but, I only see Kaidan explain detail about SomeOne (Handsome ,TallOrder etc,) when I come to him after I refuse Cortez .


I want to find Dinner Dialogue to show. but I can't find it.    

[MACharlie1]

BENIIICHAT wrote...

devSin wrote...

Yes, if you don't have an active romance, then the dinner with Kaidan will be a date (and you can choose to initiate a romance with him).

If you are already in a romance (ME3 doesn't let you pursue multiple romances), then the dinner will just be a friendship conversation.

Oh! I am wrong about My Question.

what I want to say is, I can romance with him all of My playthrough. but, I only see Kaidan explain detail about SomeOne (Handsome ,TallOrder etc,) when I come to him after I refuse Cortez .


I want to find Dinner Dialogue to show. but I can't find it.    

If you imported, then you'll get different dialog then if you started a fresh game. Imported games won't get the handsome dialog. They'lll still get romanced but no handsome comment. 

[devSin]

In case anybody wants to beg for more Kaidan content, don't forget about the open letter of appreciation to Cathleen. You still have time to add personal comments and requests.

IsaacShep wrote...

Letter to Cathleen project update! 

We now have 12 messages, very close to our minimal goal of 15 fan messages. Please contribute! docs.google.com/document/d/1VojVd5Er_jlP5AulZru0xW0_H9T1ZtJ2BDGe3zA9BCI/edit The deadline is this Friday, May 4th dstrawberrygirl-time (whatever it is she when she decides to lock it down

Modifié par devSin, 02 mai 2012 - 04:01 .

[shepskisaac]

As for cut "I love you" for ManShep, if people want it back in the EC, tweet twitter.com/GambleMike no tweeting = no gain (and 1 tweet from me won't do it either, especially since they already know my Twitter account well, multiple people must tweet)

[Bellendaine]

IsaacShep wrote...

As for cut "I love you" for ManShep, if people want it back in the EC, tweet twitter.com/GambleMike no tweeting = no gain (and 1 tweet from me won't do it either, especially since they already know my Twitter account well, multiple people must tweet)

So what if you loathe Twitter and don't use it?  Is there another way to reach him?

[Gilthanis]

devSin wrote...

In case anybody wants to beg for more Kaidan content, don't forget about the open letter of appreciation to Cathleen. You still have time to add personal comments and requests.

IsaacShep wrote...

Just a reminder girls and guys please plase contribute to our Letter to Cathleen project:docs.google.com/document/d/1VojVd5Er_jlP5AulZru0xW0_H9T1ZtJ2BDGe3zA9BCI/edit :) We would like to send it the upcoming week but not without like at least 10-15 contributions so please  For Kaidan! 

I didn't even know about this (but I'm not on the Character discussion boards all that often).  How much longer do we have to add to the letter?