25715 réponses à ce sujet

[shepskisaac]

It's also possible that they simply thought that there was no need for s/s romance with Ash when there was already Liara from ME1. PR statements don't matter. Every human being considers Liara/FemSHep as lesbian romance because to us, humans, Liara is 99% a woman. Blue paint and funny hairstyle don't change anything.

Jade Empire had exactly this kind of romances breakdown - 1 straight girl, 1 bi girl, 1 bi guy. So there was the precedence.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 01 juin 2012 - 07:36 .

[bleetman]

I think it's just an issue of time and disk resources. After all, with all the time and effort that went into making Ashley as stereotypically sexy as possible, when were they supposed to handle tivial things like character development? How're they supposed to fit that rocking bosom onto the tiny, tiny disc with unecessary things like dialogue hogging up room? Priorities, people. Priorities.

...

I largely figured they decided to go with a "two bi, two gay" setup, and further decided for whatever reason that after all this time, Liara did in fact count. So they just picked Kaidan to balance it out. Which isn't all that surprising, the only other male romance interest that doesn't die or turn out to be an **** is Garrus, and I can only imagine the avalanche of stupidity if they made him interested in Sheploo.

I do wish they'd made Ash available as well, though I'm not particularly sure I'd go for it anymore myself. The Ashley I knew and loved died back in Mass Effect 1, it seems. That's just me though.

Modifié par bleetman, 01 juin 2012 - 08:11 .

[Ushanka]

I suppose it's because Ash is religious. Any religion is against s/s relationships. Something like that.

[shepskisaac]

Liara always counted. The only reason why they said she didn't was because the media questioned them why there's no male homosexuality while female homosexuality was there. They also had couple other equally nonsensical excuses - "Shepard is predefined character", and "gay male sex is not PG-13" being the most famous ones.

Ushanka wrote...

Any religion is against s/s relationships.

False.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 01 juin 2012 - 08:20 .

[Ushanka]

Really? I don't remember in any religion(Christianity, Islam, Judaism) accepting of this. Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? Maybe you explain to me if I'm wrong?

[Beep Il]

Neopaganism is a new term for you?

[shepskisaac]

Ushanka wrote...

Really? I don't remember in any religion(Christianity, Islam, Judaism) accepting of this. Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? Maybe you explain to me if I'm wrong?

Remember that rule about not wearing clothes made of mixed fabrics?

And here's a link for you: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_homosexuality
Not only some Christian churches accept homosexuality, there are also entire religions that do it (ya know, Judeo-Christian religions ain't the only ones in the world). Furthermore, the fact that some religions don't support homosexuality has never prevented anyone from being bi/gay. Just because Ashley's prents are religious and raised Ash in such faith doesn't mean she couldn't be a bisexual or lesbian woman.

[Ushanka]

I just talked about traditional mono religions.

[Ushanka]

Ok, I get your opinion.

[AmyMac]

Oh, for the love of god (lol), don't bring that debate into this thread.

The main thing that sucks about Kaidan being bi and Ash not is that this is the only major point of the series on which the two characters really diverge. The mission on Mars? Same for both. The mission in the Citadel where you renegade/paragon out of shooting them? Same for both. They treat Ash and Kaidan the same except for in this regard, and I'm 100% sure Quething hit the nail on the head with the statement that the dudebros would get pissed off at the idea that a gay chica RP'ing a gay femshep might be just as into Ashley as they are.
Hell, I mostly lurk in the Ash thread on here (and rarely post) for that very reason.

[Ushanka]

I see this. It's just a bit strange for me to see Ash as a bi. Well, in game she is straight.
And don't worry, this was constructive talk, not destructive.

[AmyMac]

I get that. Everyone has their own headcanon. And I could say the same about Kaidan -- but him being straight in my headcanon doesn't make him any less bi/gay in someone else's.
And honestly? ME3 sucked so hard that my femshep not being able to romance Ashley didn't even matter, even though she's one of my favorite characters. I did 2 playthroughs -- one initial "no spoilers I want to explore this game for myself" playthrough, and an insanity run. My vanguard ended up with Garrus so I could get the paramour achievement, and my infiltrator hooked up with Traynor after Thane died (lol). I don't think I'll play it much more.
I don't think making Ash available to femshep would have made the game much better.

[Ushanka]

Well, Ash has not so much content in game, feels like it was cuted out. :/ Even Kaidan has much more.

[Quething]

AmyMac wrote...

I get that. Everyone has their own headcanon. And I could say the same about Kaidan -- but him being straight in my headcanon doesn't make him any less bi/gay in someone else's.
And honestly? ME3 sucked so hard that my femshep not being able to romance Ashley didn't even matter, even though she's one of my favorite characters. I did 2 playthroughs -- one initial "no spoilers I want to explore this game for myself" playthrough, and an insanity run. My vanguard ended up with Garrus so I could get the paramour achievement, and my infiltrator hooked up with Traynor after Thane died (lol). I don't think I'll play it much more.
I don't think making Ash available to femshep would have made the game much better.

Sadly, making Ash available to femShep wouldn't even have made Ash better.  (Silver lining, I suppose the Virmire choice back in ME1 is now marginally easier?)

I did one clean import and got every achievement except for the "promote" one so I figured what the hell, I'd run her through again with her old hacked Ashmance back just to see the difference. (Mars, at least, was a step up...) I then eventually mustered the motivation to try a renegade playthrough with my beta Shep. And discovered that a no-romance Kaidan has about five times as much to add to the story as a romanced Ash. And then I gave up and retreated to multiplayer and Diablo III.

(I still say that if they should have left out Kaidan and given everyone Joker instead, if they cared at all about balance, which they didn't. femSheps with dead Kaidan still get a male option, maleSheps get a friend they've known since the start. Though given what a creepy douche he suddenly is in 3, maybe it's better he's chasing after sexbots instead.)

Modifié par Quething, 01 juin 2012 - 10:58 .

[bleetman]

AmyMac wrote...

The mission in the Citadel where you renegade/paragon out of shooting them? Same for both.

To be fair, Ashley is considerably more suspicious of Shepard than Kaidan is.

Other than that, yes.

[Abispa]

bleetman wrote...

AmyMac wrote...

The mission in the Citadel where you renegade/paragon out of shooting them? Same for both.

To be fair, Ashley is considerably more suspicious of Shepard than Kaidan is.

Other than that, yes.

LI Ashley is almost too easily swayed into trusting male Shepard very early in the game (during the Mars mission). There are moments when she has a "suspicious VS" flashback, but LI Kaidan gives female Shepard a much harder time in my experience. Even after the coup attempt he is still asking Shepard to explain herself. However, Ashley seems to be WAY too easily talked into joining Hacket's team instead of the Normandy if you're female Shepard. Kaidan looks like you shot his puppy. Maybe because he's bi.

That was a (bad) joke.

I think the decision to keep Ashley OS only was based purely on the numbers. There are a bunch of female s/s options (Liara, Samantha, Kelly, certain female reporter) and now there are only two male s/s options (Kaidan and Steve).  As a straight Ashley fan, it would not have bothered me one bit if she were "retcon" as bi, so long as she didn't suddenly change into Isabela. Her romantic availabilty would have required less of a "retcon" than Kaidan, since earlier games and licensed media did portray him as easily impressed by women.

[Abispa]

Quething wrote...

(I still say that if they should have left out Kaidan and given everyone Joker instead, if they cared at all about balance, which they didn't. femSheps with dead Kaidan still get a male option, maleSheps get a friend they've known since the start. Though given what a creepy douche he suddenly is in 3, maybe it's better he's chasing after sexbots instead.)

Um, yeah. I was half expecting Kaidan to reveal that he was Batman in ME3. I mean, WTF? As time went on I decided that he clearly wasn't Batman and was, in fact, the Spectre. I half expected Garrus to have a urine stain on his armor whenever I had them work together on a mission.

[AmyMac]

Abispa wrote...
I think the decision to keep Ashley OS only was based purely on the numbers. There are a bunch of female s/s options (Liara, Samantha, Kelly, certain female reporter) and now there are only two male s/s options (Kaidan and Steve).  As a straight Ashley fan, it would not have bothered me one bit if she were "retcon" as bi, so long as she didn't suddenly change into Isabela. Her romantic availabilty would have required less of a "retcon" than Kaidan, since earlier games and licensed media did portray him as easily impressed by women.

Which is complete and utter BS, considering that Traynor's romance was a joke, Kelly's was an even bigger joke, and that "certain female reporter" shouldn't have even been in the game. Oh, and lets not forget that ManShep gets all his ME2 love interests, whereas Thane dies and Jacob cheats on FemShep.

[Kunari801]

AmyMac wrote...
Which is complete and utter BS, considering that Traynor's romance was a joke, Kelly's was an even bigger joke, and that "certain female reporter" shouldn't have even been in the game. Oh, and lets not forget that ManShep gets all his ME2 love interests, whereas Thane dies and Jacob cheats on FemShep. 

Sorry, I forgive all that since my many Sheploo's can finally have Kaidan.   But I'm a bastard like that.   

[Quething]

Abispa wrote...

Um, yeah. I was half expecting Kaidan to reveal that he was Batman in ME3. I mean, WTF? As time went on I decided that he clearly wasn't Batman and was, in fact, the Spectre. I half expected Garrus to have a urine stain on his armor whenever I had them work together on a mission.

..... what?

[Chun Hei]

Quething wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Um, yeah. I was half expecting Kaidan to reveal that he was Batman in ME3. I mean, WTF? As time went on I decided that he clearly wasn't Batman and was, in fact, the Spectre. I half expected Garrus to have a urine stain on his armor whenever I had them work together on a mission.

..... what?

He's been making fun of Kaidan because of all those growling angry lines he has if you talk to him in the Normandy. I have to keep reminding him that Kaidan is still a nice guy when he is in the combat missions and would not scare Garrus.

[Abispa]

AmyMac wrote...

Abispa wrote...
I think the decision to keep Ashley OS only was based purely on the numbers. There are a bunch of female s/s options (Liara, Samantha, Kelly, certain female reporter) and now there are only two male s/s options (Kaidan and Steve).  As a straight Ashley fan, it would not have bothered me one bit if she were "retcon" as bi, so long as she didn't suddenly change into Isabela. Her romantic availabilty would have required less of a "retcon" than Kaidan, since earlier games and licensed media did portray him as easily impressed by women.

Which is complete and utter BS, considering that Traynor's romance was a joke, Kelly's was an even bigger joke, and that "certain female reporter" shouldn't have even been in the game. Oh, and lets not forget that ManShep gets all his ME2 love interests, whereas Thane dies and Jacob cheats on FemShep.

I never meant to imply that the QUANTITY of romances equaled QUALITY. From what I've seen the Liara romance is the best, and the Samantha was debatable as serviceable. Kelly and Allers were... sad. So... very... very... sad...

...Yet still better than Jacob for straight female Shepard.

[Quething]

Chun Hei wrote...

He's been making fun of Kaidan because of all those growling angry lines he has if you talk to him in the Normandy. I have to keep reminding him that Kaidan is still a nice guy when he is in the combat missions and would not scare Garrus.

Ah!

I was talking about Joker. Kaidan doesn't, to my knowledge, chase after sexbots, though he does have that one comment about EDI being hot (really, dude? that body just put you in a coma). Joker does, and also makes a lot of sexist comments and jackass jokes. 

Abispa wrote...

...Yet still better than Jacob for straight female Shepard.

I feel so depressingly vindicated in letting him die on the Suicide Mission in 2. He and Zaeed were my picks for my canon Shep, as I didn't want her to have a perfect run, and I waffled a lot on who other than Zaeed would make the most sense for her story, and cost the least content in 3. I figured he wouldn't have much content, but I had no idea he'd actually be better off without what little he did...

Modifié par Quething, 05 juin 2012 - 12:49 .

[Abispa]

Quething wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Um, yeah. I was half expecting Kaidan to reveal that he was Batman in ME3. I mean, WTF? As time went on I decided that he clearly wasn't Batman and was, in fact, the Spectre. I half expected Garrus to have a urine stain on his armor whenever I had them work together on a mission.

..... what?

I have ONE save where I let Ashley die, just to be a completionist and see how much time Kaidan got compared to Ashley. I admit I'm probably over-reacting, but his random growling lines of feeling the quickening, desires for revenge, and difficulty controlling his rage struck me as... so... very... odd... for Kaidan.



As for the Spectre reference, I had just finished talking to friends about rumored DC supernational heroes animated DVD and we felt Kaidan's VA would make a good Jim Corrigan.

[Quething]

Corrigan, wow, that's old-school, the Spectre's been through like three hosts since then. Or did they give him back to Jim after the Flashpoint crap? I broke up with DC when they gave Babs her legs back, I haven't been following.

Um, on-topic though, I know they're making Earth-2 Alan Scott gay, and apart from the usual crazies the fandom has seemed fairly chill about it. So hey, sexuality retcons, not a big deal even if they actually are retcons, which the ones in ME3 weren't?