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[Tiberis]

ElitePinecone wrote...

It was probably the best they could do while constrained by a) having to introduce the character in the third act and making Cortez's personal story a tragic one. The trilogy-arc with Kaidan has the advantage of longevity and familiarity, while if Cortez hadn't been grieving over his recently-deceased husband the storyline would've obviously played out differently.

We can hope that future series with a consistent protagonist won't get to the point where they need to shoehorn in the s/s stuff in the final chapter; if nothing else it would make the character interactions seem a little less... hurried.

They can easily rectify this by adding more content. Specifically, a LI DLC is highly in order. Not just for the s/s options. Thane, Samara, and other ME2 LI need some expansion. . .

[Frozen83]

Tiberis wrote...

Specifically, a LI DLC is highly in order.

Not going to happen. This is not a dating game. And I'm okay with that... Sometimes you just have to... ummm... stick it in? Reapers are killing everything, Shepard needs somethin fun, something to like, love, to fight for. Even if it happens quickly. Believe me, not all romances are "Gone with the wind" epic type. M.

[Abispa]

bleetman wrote...

Abispa wrote...

BTW, did Bioware ever release the "gay patch" for Star Wars?

No. Nor do I expect they ever will, even if they originally intended to.

Not that I think they ever did, but they've got slightly bigger problems right now. Like keeping the game from failing completely.

I found this and decided to post it.

[AndreasShepard]

Frozen83 wrote...

Tiberis wrote...

Specifically, a LI DLC is highly in order.

Not going to happen. This is not a dating game. And I'm okay with that... Sometimes you just have to... ummm... stick it in? Reapers are killing everything, Shepard needs somethin fun, something to like, love, to fight for. Even if it happens quickly. Believe me, not all romances are "Gone with the wind" epic type. M.

There is a fine line between adding DLC that would make the relationships feel something more like the Sims and adding meaningful content that adds to the story in a positive way.  I don't see a problem with adding extra romance dialogue/cutscenes that would be optional for the player to engage in.  It wouldn't kill the immersion or feel cheesy but rather would help to convey even more personality to the characters and given that Mass effect is largely a character driven game that's certainly not a bad possibility. 
If anything it could really help a lot since there are some scenes where Shepard comes off as not really being that into certain characters that he/she is romantically involved with and since Mass Effect 3 is supposed to also be largely about player choice I think it would be cool for us to determine things like just how flirtatious or military-like Shepard could be in his approach to the romances.  As it is now there really isn't much variety at all in the dialogue choices, which is a shame.

[ElitePinecone]

AndreasShepard wrote...

Frozen83 wrote...

Tiberis wrote...

Specifically, a LI DLC is highly in order.

Not going to happen. This is not a dating game. And I'm okay with that... Sometimes you just have to... ummm... stick it in? Reapers are killing everything, Shepard needs somethin fun, something to like, love, to fight for. Even if it happens quickly. Believe me, not all romances are "Gone with the wind" epic type. M.

There is a fine line between adding DLC that would make the relationships feel something more like the Sims and adding meaningful content that adds to the story in a positive way.  I don't see a problem with adding extra romance dialogue/cutscenes that would be optional for the player to engage in.  It wouldn't kill the immersion or feel cheesy but rather would help to convey even more personality to the characters and given that Mass effect is largely a character driven game that's certainly not a bad possibility. 
If anything it could really help a lot since there are some scenes where Shepard comes off as not really being that into certain characters that he/she is romantically involved with and since Mass Effect 3 is supposed to also be largely about player choice I think it would be cool for us to determine things like just how flirtatious or military-like Shepard could be in his approach to the romances.  As it is now there really isn't much variety at all in the dialogue choices, which is a shame.

At the very most, romance content in DLCs would be a line or two of dialogue.

LIs are not the focus of the series and Bioware aren't going to invest resources creating content for a tiny fraction of the playerbase ('people who happened to romance Thane in ME2', say) when DLCs are meant to sell as widely as possible. 

[Quething]

Man, y'all are cynics.

[Tiberis]

ElitePinecone wrote...

At the very most, romance content in DLCs would be a line or two of dialogue.

LIs are not the focus of the series and Bioware aren't going to invest resources creating content for a tiny fraction of the playerbase ('people who happened to romance Thane in ME2', say) when DLCs are meant to sell as widely as possible. 

I haven't met many ME players personally who did not romance anyone. I feel like a DLC centered on the expansion of the characters (not just romances) would be a high seller. As Andreas said, ME focuses a lot on the characters and an optional part of that which most do partake in are the romances. I don't know about the Thane romance; but I have heard that BioWare devs promised to fulfull fan wishes to incorporate a full romance arc for Samara. It did not happen. I think it will in future DLC, which in my opinion will be a larger character-focused DLC that includes more content for most characters as well as the LI arcs.

Frozen83 wrote...
This is not a dating game.

This statement irks me. It is the worst argument for not putting more LI content. People seem to forget what an effing dating game is; ME is not one.

Modifié par Tiberis, 07 juin 2012 - 04:42 .

[stiglaw]

Although I think it's probably true that they'd prioritize mission-oriented DLCs such as the alleged Omega pack, I really do hope to hear more from Kaidan... He's just so...bland after we kindled the relationship at the Cafe... I read from the STEEEEEEVEEE thread that Cortez got some great lines in-between missions and alas, how I wish my Kaidan could say a bit more than professional hay-ha.

[AndreasShepard]

Bioware knows how important LI's are to the series. In one of Casey Hudsons interviews I remember him saying they included romance in the game because it's hugely popular with the fans. Whenever I've talked about ME with friends one of the questions that always comes up is "Who did you romance?" So if anything I think a LI DLC would be a good investment on their part. There's a huge number of people who play Mass Effect to be immersed int he world, not just to shoot at things.

@stiglaw Steve has a couple of funny lines but Kaidan has a lot more to say in general and you get a much more satisfying romance scene in Shepard's cabin and goodbye on earth.  If anything Steve got shafted later on in the game.

Modifié par AndreasShepard, 07 juin 2012 - 04:59 .

[Quething]

Tiberis wrote...

This statement irks me. It is the worst argument for not putting more LI content. People seem to forget what an effing dating game is; ME is not one.

I'm fairly sure no one who says it has ever actually played one.

[PhoenixAeon]

Tiberis wrote...

PhoenixAeon wrote...

Ok not to change the conversation.. but had to share..

I personally had issue with MaleShep and Steve Cortez LI/story line/hooking up the way they did. I was like, the guy just was at the memorial letting go of Robert and here you go hooking up with him .. like that? at a bar? really?

I think the story LI with Kaiden and Shepard was way better than with Steve and Shepard mainly because there was a depth to it. You started off kinda deep with Steve and then it felt like fluff after the bar scene. How does someone go from grieving the loss of their husband to playing it lose and wild the next. I am not sure the amount of time that was suppose to pass between the two but it just seemed contradictory to the initial involvement. Also the romance scene with Steve just didn't feel right to me.

The way I see it is as such:

Cortez loses Robert during the middle of ME2 (there is dialogue on the Normandy about Ferris Fields being attacked by the collectors) and subsequently I assume he returns to Earth. ME2 takes place over I think several months. Time doesn’t seem to have a huge role in the ME universe or not that I personally can tell (correct me if I’m wrong). After the events of ME2 conclude, he is assigned to the Normandy’s retrofit team. I believe ME3 then begins about half a year later; reapers invade and he gets stuck on the Normandy during its escape (why he doesn’t appear till after the first visit to the Citadel seems to be due to the plot). By this point at least a year, give or take, has passed since Robert’s death. For most people, that is plentiful time to move on.

Throughout the dialogue you get with Steve, you obviously found out how heartbroken he still is. My impression is that he tried putting it behind him initially after Robert’s death by burying himself in work; something he continues to do on the Normandy until Shepard intervenes. The recording he has was a mistake. He says himself that in the rush and panic of the Reaper invasion he erroneously grabs the recording. “The one thing I grab is this?!” He says it with discontentment; so it seems he did move on but his mistake in grabbing the recording brought back the bad memories. Thus the arc you witness in ME3 is helping him to finally put the bad memories down and make him realize he can be happy again.

With the romance you are put into the theme of “in the moment”, which is why Steve’s romance seems to have a more spontaneous overtone and the hints in his ambient dialogue of what Steve and Shepard do off camera. While Kaidan is more about finally connecting, realizing what was in front of you the whole time; something that was born out of the lack of s/s romance in ME1 as well as the urgent theme of ME3. Admittedly, the romance with Kaidan is much more poetic and romantic; though lackluster in its ambience. Steve is on the opposite side of this. He has a warm, spontaneous ambience; the romantic portion is there but relies on personal interpretation. I think both are in need of expanding; all romances need expanding though.

Sorry for the wall of text. I personally liked Steve’s romance quite a bit. Get kind of irritated by the comments on how it “moved too fast” because you can take most romances from ME3, ME2, and even ME1 and also see them as “moving too fast”. It’s up to perception though; so don’t hate me too much. :innocent:

I definitely think that there will be an expanded dialogue with your LI in the EC DLC.  Theres no question about it in my mind. So we will get to see more and I think that is appropriate and the right way to go.   I really liked Steve Cortez, truly, I do. I guess the scene at the club and the dialog on the dancefloor just didn't feel right to me.  I was just gonig on youtube bit where Shephard says "Tonight could be even better." and Im like.. really? he said that?

For me Shephard is just more than a line like that. I also never felt Shephard really needed Steve like he says on the dance floor.  I am like, really? Shephard needs Steve?  I just felt like it didn't fit enough with all the other conversations.  Maybe if there was more dialogue inbetween and a better transistion to the club scene it would of made more sense to me.

Also there is presumably conversations that happen we do not see as well?  Esp if months is passing by, but I still feel like there is still something not right about the conversation/dialogue transitions.


** FIX THE CHAT DIALOGUE for Kaiden and Shepard **

You know we got some awesome conversation between Shepard and Kaiden on Mars, but if you "hacked" your LI to be Kaiden there are bits of dialogue that is missing for you in ME3.   Why doesn't BioWare do the right thing and ADD that voice dialogue in for those of us who did "hack" it so we could have Kaiden as a LI in ME and ME2?  Its like 4 lines that I found.

The scene when you first go to see Kaiden in the hospital and then the romance scene when on the sofa.  It's really not much to ask, and it would really make a huge difference IMHO.  In addition, the rest of the dialogue is there. It fits in perfectly.. IMHO.

Anyway, here is something you may really like to see in case you haven't seen it... 
 

Modifié par PhoenixAeon, 07 juin 2012 - 06:06 .

[Tiberis]

Quething wrote...

Tiberis wrote...

This statement irks me. It is the worst argument for not putting more LI content. People seem to forget what an effing dating game is; ME is not one.

I'm fairly sure no one who says it has ever actually played one.

You don't need to play one, it's in the damn name. I absolutely despise when this is said in so many discussion of LIs or the expansion thereof. Translating "Hey, I'd like to see a Samara romance!" to "I want to date an alien." is just absurd. The LI arcs provide deeper immersion and insight to the characters involved. We play ME to immerse ourselves in this different world, in Shepard's world; the romances are a big part of that if you so choose to partake in them. Posting "Lulz, this isn't dating sim yanno." makes me seriously contemplate your intelligence.

@PhoenixAeon
Well I can understand where you're coming from. I do think there could be more inbetween the point you encourage him to go to the Citadel to when you finally get with him in Purgatory. But this is a similar issue with most of the other LIs; it isn't just for Cortez. There seems to be a lack of general dialogue in theme with the LI arcs. The essential components to it, I.E. Kaidan's Citadel date, are there but the stuff inbetween is left to your own imagination or is simply implied. This is something that a theoretical "character DLC" can rectify. I again say that such a DLC would be a profitable venture for BioWare.

Regarding the gibbed Kaidan romance; BioWare does not officially support this. I wish they did since everyone knows they originally were going to include s/s romances for both Kaidan and Ashley. The romance for Kaidan is mostly copy and paste for both sexes anyway, so they would just use the same script but need Meer's voice. But in the larger scope of things, this was far from a priority regardless of how minor or easy it would have been to do it.

Also, that video is so cute. I assume you've heard all the cut Kaidan dialogue for the manShep-Kaidan romance right? For example, they cut a line where Kaidan and Shepard exchange "I love you"s and it's a sweet. Angers me a bit that they excluded this. FemShep gets an "I love you" even if you don't import a save and stayed faithful to Kaidan. 

[ElitePinecone]

Tiberis wrote...

I haven't met many ME players personally who did not romance anyone. I feel like a DLC centered on the expansion of the characters (not just romances) would be a high seller. As Andreas said, ME focuses a lot on the characters and an optional part of that which most do partake in are the romances. I don't know about the Thane romance; but I have heard that BioWare devs promised to fulfull fan wishes to incorporate a full romance arc for Samara. It did not happen. I think it will in future DLC, which in my opinion will be a larger character-focused DLC that includes more content for most characters as well as the LI arcs.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what Bioware does, but... I wouldn't be hoping for any character-specific DLC. Particularly after the Extended Cut has unexpectedly sucked up so much time post-launch, the traditional wisdom says DLCs are only really viable a year after the game is released, and we're months in with no sign of any single-player content. By this point after ME2's release (3 months) we had Kasumi and the Firewalker Pack released, and Overlord was only another month after that. 

(The cynic in me thinks they've made so much money from microtransactions that all the attention is towards producing more free content DLCs that generate more purchases of Spectre packs, and single-player missions are a lower priority.)

[Tiberis]

You might be right. I like to think that ME3 is supposed to be the epic conclusion to the main "introduction" series to the ME universe. I really think they want to extend the lifespan of ME3 at least for two years (the other two in the series both got a year's worth of attention). Also, IIRC, in the official statement regarding the EC I believe they stated wanting to give more people the chance to complete the game before they release anything significant (MP is not significant). I'm pretty sure EA is at fault for how ME3 is now and to compensate I think they [BioWare] purposely left out a lot of material for use in future DLCs. Cynicism aside, I'd like to believe the devs are working hard to deliver all of the hype they've made pre-release.

[AmyMac]

Tiberis wrote...
 I'm pretty sure EA is at fault for how ME3 is now and to compensate I think they [BioWare] purposely left out a lot of material for use in future DLCs. Cynicism aside, I'd like to believe the devs are working hard to deliver all of the hype they've made pre-release.

Yeah, especially considering Javik was supposed to be part of ME3 (not DLC)... they just wanted a way to be able to charge people $70 instead of $60 for the game.
I'm not holding my breath for the EC.

[AndreasShepard]

PhoenixAeon wrote...


Anyway, here is something you may really like to see in case you haven't seen it... 
 

Aww that video is lovely.

[Kunari801]

Tiberis wrote...

You might be right. I like to think that ME3 is supposed to be the epic conclusion to the main "introduction" series to the ME universe...

... I'm pretty sure EA is at fault for how ME3 is now and to compensate I think they [BioWare] purposely left out a lot of material for use in future DLCs. Cynicism aside, I'd like to believe the devs are working hard to deliver all of the hype they've made pre-release.

I'd like to see a new series with a new set of heros, set it X-years after ME3's end in a galaxy slowly rebuiding from the Reaper War as Relays links are slowly rebuilt.   Warlords, tyrants, mercs, etc could rule sections of space so the galaxy is much more "unstable" than pre-war.  Could make for some interesting settings.  

EA set the schedule.  Javik is DLC because EA didn't give the team enough time.  ME3 should have launched this fall instead of in March.  The question I'm unsure on is about the endings.  I think the ending was as much time/schedule as the dev-team not "seeing the forest through the trees".  I'm not sure they'd have figured out that the endings aren't satisfying to players who aren't in-the-know of the inner thoughts of the Dev team.   Nor do I don't think they realized how many of us were as attached to these characters nor how many wanted Shepard to live.   

I thought I had prepared myself for Shepard to die, and maybe if he's died like a hero I'd have been able to accept it. 

Modifié par Kunari801, 07 juin 2012 - 03:21 .

[stiglaw]

AndreasShepard wrote...

@stiglaw Steve has a couple of funny lines but Kaidan has a lot more to say in general and you get a much more satisfying romance scene in Shepard's cabin and goodbye on earth.  If anything Steve got shafted later on in the game.

I know... I waited Kaidan for three games so how can I say no to him at Citadel? I just hope he could have a bit more to say when you go talk to him after each mission. Most of his sentences sound to me too professional. Steve would say something like I miss you and do you want me to help with your report, but you don't get that from Kaidan: which is a problem for Ash as well, so I heard.

And here is a video I made for Shep and Kaidan (1st time using Windows Movie Maker... what a pain, low res, had to use in-game audio), hope you guys can give me some feed back!
  

Modifié par stiglaw, 07 juin 2012 - 06:10 .

[Vigilant111]

AndreasShepard wrote...

Bioware knows how important LI's are to the series. In one of Casey Hudsons interviews I remember him saying they included romance in the game because it's hugely popular with the fans. Whenever I've talked about ME with friends one of the questions that always comes up is "Who did you romance?" So if anything I think a LI DLC would be a good investment on their part. There's a huge number of people who play Mass Effect to be immersed int he world, not just to shoot at things.

@stiglaw Steve has a couple of funny lines but Kaidan has a lot more to say in general and you get a much more satisfying romance scene in Shepard's cabin and goodbye on earth.  If anything Steve got shafted later on in the game.

A lot more is still not enough!

[Tiberis]

Kunari801 wrote...

I'd like to see a new series with a new set of heros, set it X-years after ME3's end in a galaxy slowly rebuiding from the Reaper War as Relays links are slowly rebuilt.   Warlords, tyrants, mercs, etc could rule sections of space so the galaxy is much more "unstable" than pre-war.  Could make for some interesting settings.  

EA set the schedule.  Javik is DLC because EA didn't give the team enough time.  ME3 should have launched this fall instead of in March.  The question I'm unsure on is about the endings.  I think the ending was as much time/schedule as the dev-team not "seeing the forest through the trees".  I'm not sure they'd have figured out that the endings aren't satisfying to players who aren't in-the-know of the inner thoughts of the Dev team.   Nor do I don't think they realized how many of us were as attached to these characters nor how many wanted Shepard to live.   

I thought I had prepared myself for Shepard to die, and maybe if he's died like a hero I'd have been able to accept it.

I prefer to see a game set in something that we have heard so much about in the three games. Specifically the First Contact War or the Rachni Wars.

I like to be optimistic about it because it dulls the pain of the endings, haha. I like to think they had a plan all along to add more to the endings. However I don't think they realized how sudden and harsh the reaction would be. I think the whole "we want to give more time for people to complete the game" statement is a hint that they did indeed plan to add content to the endings. How everyone reacted is the reason for how they responded. But it's all speculation; we'll see. . .

@Stiglaw
Resolution aside, the vid is nice and sweet. Good job on it, especially for a first time!

[Abispa]

If there is any extra LI content, I'd like to see it worked into an adventure DLC. Similar to the DA2 DLCs. Maybe have most of the ME2 cast show up on Omega. It's under Cerberus control, so Jacob, Miranda, and Jack could definitely have good reasons to be available. Zaeed and Kasumi wouldn't be too much of a stretch either.

I don't need more sex scenes, some well written dialog or the occasional hug or kiss would do. One of the reason I think Jack has the best DA2 continued romance is that she and Shepard show affection for each other during the course of their mission even though they aren't on the same squad. This was a HELL of a lot better than Miranda's, IMHO, where she keeps showing up, on the CItadel in her Cerberus uniform, so her fans can get another close-up shot of her backside. If you aren't romancing Miranda, her cameo's seem forced and odd as well as numerous.

Modifié par Abispa, 07 juin 2012 - 08:26 .

[PhoenixAeon]

Tiberis wrote...

Quething wrote...

Tiberis wrote...

This statement irks me. It is the worst argument for not putting more LI content. People seem to forget what an effing dating game is; ME is not one.

I'm fairly sure no one who says it has ever actually played one.

@PhoenixAeon
Regarding the gibbed Kaidan romance; BioWare does not officially support this. I wish they did since everyone knows they originally were going to include s/s romances for both Kaidan and Ashley. The romance for Kaidan is mostly copy and paste for both sexes anyway, so they would just use the same script but need Meer's voice. But in the larger scope of things, this was far from a priority regardless of how minor or easy it would have been to do it.

Also, that video is so cute. I assume you've heard all the cut Kaidan dialogue for the manShep-Kaidan romance right? For example, they cut a line where Kaidan and Shepard exchange "I love you"s and it's a sweet. Angers me a bit that they excluded this. FemShep gets an "I love you" even if you don't import a save and stayed faithful to Kaidan. 

Yes, I was a bit angry too.  Also, there was not as much affection as I thoguht there should have been.  When FemShep and Kaiden have lunch to decide their future, FemShep gets a lot more attention.  I think allowing them to hold hands would of been perfect for MaleShep and Kaiden, if not exactly what the script demanded.

[goodventure]

PhoenixAeon wrote...

** FIX THE CHAT DIALOGUE for Kaiden and Shepard **

You know we got some awesome conversation between Shepard and Kaiden on Mars, but if you "hacked" your LI to be Kaiden there are bits of dialogue that is missing for you in ME3.   Why doesn't BioWare do the right thing and ADD that voice dialogue in for those of us who did "hack" it so we could have Kaiden as a LI in ME and ME2?  Its like 4 lines that I found.

The scene when you first go to see Kaiden in the hospital and then the romance scene when on the sofa.  It's really not much to ask, and it would really make a huge difference IMHO.  In addition, the rest of the dialogue is there. It fits in perfectly.. IMHO.

Anyway, here is something you may really like to see in case you haven't seen it... 
 

That video... 

And I agree with your feelings on the modded Shepard romances, but since we "hacked" it I don't believe they'll support it. :[

[TJX2045]

Quething wrote...

Tiberis wrote...

This statement irks me. It is the worst argument for not putting more LI content. People seem to forget what an effing dating game is; ME is not one.

I'm fairly sure no one who says it has ever actually played one.

I agree with both of these.  ME3 =/= Singles: Flirt Up Your Life (Who in the hell thought of that game? Seriously?)

Modifié par TJX2045, 08 juin 2012 - 06:46 .

[TJX2045]

Tiberis wrote...
I assume you've heard all the cut Kaidan dialogue for the manShep-Kaidan romance right? For example, they cut a line where Kaidan and Shepard exchange "I love you"s and it's a sweet. Angers me a bit that they excluded this. FemShep gets an "I love you" even if you don't import a save and stayed faithful to Kaidan. 

Linkage?

That did kind of irritate me a bit especially since they had Anders do it in Dragon Age 2.